eDreams
Reviews and Complaints

I too have had dreadful problems with edreams. The jury's out on whether they are wilfully fraudulent of wildly incompetent but either way they should not be used. I used them last week to book a flight to Amsterdam. The following day we received am email saying that there had been a problem processing the booking and requesting email or telephone notification of all our credit card details, passport nos etc. We immediately emailed to cancel the order. They emailed back verifying cancellation at no charge. The following day however the amount was debited twice from the account although one was described as a debit and the other as a correction. Despite repeated emails they have still failed to rectify this, so I have paid DOUBLE the amount for NO FLIGHT tickets!

Before this we had bought tickets from eDreams with success on 2 seperate occasions. But now, this 3rd time, we have become a victim too. On June 28, 2011 I booked a flight from Amsterdam to Bucharest for my wife with eDreams.com. We wanted to pay online with our MasterCard but this transaction 'failed'. We were supposed to use an alternative payment method: bank transfer. We sent an email to the customer helpdesk and they provided us with the details (account number (IBAN) + Swift code). account: IBAN: GB85DEUT40508129608901 BIC : DEUTGB2LXXX, account holder: Vacaciones eDreams S.L.
It turns out to be an eDreams' bank account at the Deutsche Bank in the UK. We emailed the customer department with proof that the bank tranfer had been done using screenshot of my online bank statement showing the transaction benefitting eDreams. (They wanted proof via fax but we don't own a fax machine)
Of course, the bank transfer succeded but after this nothing happened. My money (287, 59 euros) was gone but the ticket did NOT get issued and my wife would miss her flight. So we called and emailed eDreams many times. When on the phone they seem polite but they actually don't or can't help you. In the meantime we bought another ticket at another company because eDreams would not issue the ticket. eDreams mentioned to us that they did not recieve any payment from me in their bank account.
I've also sent my complete complaint via email to their complaints department on August 5, 2011, but eDreams did not bother even to confirm reciept of my complaint. Since eDreams did NOT issue a ticket we have been asking them to give us back our money. A month has passed and now it is September 5th and still no co-operation from this company. In future I will use other travel agents who will normally issue your tickets within 5 minutes via email immediately after the payment!

Recently I purchased a flight with edreams, unfortunately shortly after I had to cancel my trip. Luckily I took out insurance with the company at an additional €14. My reason for cancelling the trip was covered under the policy regulations yet still I have not heard back from them. When I first sought a refund I was e-mailing various people back and forth back and forth, every week they would request a new set of forms from my employer/bank etc. Finally the e-mails stopped and I successfully returned the extensive pile of forms (much to their surprise I'd imagine). It has now been two weeks since the last e-mail was sent and I haven't heard anything back from the company. That is a total of two months of ridiculous form filling and now there is a chance I may not even receive my money back as they have to 'study' the information I provided. It is absolutely ridiculous, at the end of the day I have a genuine reason for cancelling my trip and I even took out insurance. I am so annoyed how companies can get away with treating customers like this. It is a lot of money to me and I am so annoyed how they have wasted my time and mistreated me.

I booked a flight on the 18th of July from Lisbon to London on behalf of my partner with edreams on their website I followed the correct procedure and when I had put all my payment details in and the site accepted payment a notice then appeared to say thet the flights could not be booked and monies would not be taken from my account. This however did not happen and now I have £248.66 pending in my available balance and I am unable to buy another flight. So no tickets and no flight. I have emailed them on numerous occasions and have received one reply asking for more details and to have a nice day! This has been a complete disaster and the flights were for the 25th july returning on the 3rd August and now the cost has risen even further. I have also tried ringing but it costs £1.35 mer minute via a land line and more if a mobile is to be used and this is all I have. I am so disappointed and after reading complaints from other people it seems unlikely I'll recieve the money back in time to book with another company. I am a single parent and work hard and to have this amount of money taken from me without any explanation with the added insult of having to pay £17 debit card fee for the priviledge is a disgrace. Please help me. I wouldn't mind if they actually booked the flights for me now I would be eternally grateful if they did but they are now saying they have no record of any such booking.

I tried to book a flight on edreams but was lucky that they don't accept Visa Debit cards. I noticed that they charge £19 to process card payments, which I consider excessive. Also they ask for a passport number just to be able to register with them, something which other booking sites do not require . I was unable to get through to an operator on their call line and have yet to receive an email regarding a query I had. I ended up booking with travel republic which was cheaper because they don't charge for card payments. Their customer ratings also seem much better

I tried to book a flight with edreams but the online payment crashed half way through doing the transaction. An email came through to me to say that my booking was not confirmed. I checked that money hadn't left my account and waited for the 24 hours I was told to wait for a confirmation email. No email came and still no money from my card, so I booked a flight elsewhere presuming that this had been cancelled.

I checked through my bank statement and can now see that the money was taken from my card 3 days later but there was no further email about the confirmed flight.

I subesqunetly wrote to edreams and have had three appalling emails back, none of which actually answered any of my questions. I have threatened to call the police as this appears to be fraudulent and now no one replies to my emails at all.

I have used edreams twice over the years but never again. They are almost impossible to deal with by email and that presents problems when the Customer is outside of Europe/USA.

They have sent me incorrect flight details, then said "sometimes the system picks up these erroneous sectors... because the fare basis is cheaper".

I cannot fathom how some airlines allow edreams to operate like this.

ALSO, edreams CHARGES A PREMIUM FEE FOR PAYING BY CREDIT CARD. THAT IS IN BREACH OF THE CREDIT CARD RULES IN MY PART OF THE WORLD. IN NUMEROUS EMAILS edreams DENY CHARGING A FEE FOR PAYING BY CREDIT CARD. THAT'S MORE EVIDENCE THEIR SUPPORT TEAM HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE!

I recommend people deal direct with the airline, online of course. They are bound to be cheaper so long as you are willing to hunt around

edreams gave my husband a confirmation number and took the money for the flight out of his account. once he arrived at the airport he was told the seat was reserved but had not been paid for. Where is our Money? he had to pay for another flight. tried to send complaint and it wouldn't go thru. horrible experience.

dear sir or madam,
On the 5th of may i have tried to book a flight tichet on line, so i tried Edreams for a cheap one and for the first time, that nifgt i could not book anything although i put my bank details..., payment and booking was denied. so i tried and was succsesful on the 11 of may, i booked with bell air and the right amounth was taken out the same day.
then i looked i my statment to find out that Edreams limited took the amount of £72.54 on the 9th of may just after my failed trial of booking. i am very unhappy as you can't speak to no one, and the number they have on enternet not working. your sincerely malika jones

I purchased airline tickets from London to Venice return with Brtish Airways for this Oct using Edreams. Due to unfortunate illness we have had to cancel holiday plans. When I went to cancel the flight tickets Edreams told me that I had purchased non-refundable tickets. I asked for a credit towards another flight at a later time they told me I couldn't do that. I contacted BA directly and was told that no I could n't get a refund but I could make changes (cost 60 GBP per passenger) I conveyed this to Edreams and they said oh, yes I could make changes but it would cost me 90GBP per passenger. They then told me that I couldn't make any changes via email that I had to phone them directly. I live in Canada. They then sent me a phone number, which can't be used in Canada.I asked for another phone number and spent all day friday trying to get ahold of someone - no answer in the office. After reading the coments on this web-site I think I have just kissed my air-fare goodbye. I can't get a hold of anyone to help. Lesson to self: Always book tickets directly with the airline.

Edreams confirmed my reservation but not confirm the receipt of the payment. However, they have taken the 210.99 USD from my account. Then, Edreams asked me to fax or email my passport and credit card in the name of the security measure ! This is a fraud mafia. There are so many complaints on their fraud ! We should together do something. We should post the fraud of Edreams not only here but also on facebook and twitter. Facebook and twitter can topple the Tunisian and Egyption government, much less to say an Edreams. Let us fight for our rights !

On thursday-morning 10 Februari we booked with eDream:
this is what we received:

Confirmed booking – pending of payment
- Reservation number Z64OYY
Information on your booking

Status of your booking
Important !
We are currently checking a problem we have detected with your bank card during the payment process. As soon as we have verified that everything is correct we will send you a ticket as indicated below. If it is not possible to complete the payment with the credit card provided we will contact you by email to inform you of how your ticket can be issued.

If we do not encounter any problems during the payment process, the ticket for this reservation will be issued in the form of an electronic ticket (e-ticket). The confirmation of the e-ticket will be sent as a second email to the email address specified below. You will not be sent any paper documentation.
Next steps:
1. Your reservation is confirmed but has not been paid. Please wait until we contact you again before making a new reservation. Your reservation is confirmed. You will see the details and flight itinerary below.
2. If the data is exact, we will charge the ticket to your bank card and send you an e-mail confirming the purchase. Do not go to the airport before receiving the second confirmation e-mail from eDreams. This second e-mail will be sent to you once we have verified the exactness of the reservation and that your card has been charged for the corresponding amount.

So we waited for the second email, the e-Ticket
Then friday-morning:

-- On Fri, 2/11/11, Elena Atanasova wrote:

From: Elena Atanasova
Subject: Z64OYY
To: [protected]@YAHOO.COM
Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:46 AMDear customer,
 Regarding your flight reservation with eDreams, we must inform you that the actual fare of your flight has changed from 370.24 eur to  448.24 eur
Would you still like to confirm the reservation? Please let us know as soon as possible.
 We apologise for the inconvenience.
 Best Regards

our reply,
From: ganbolor oyundari [mailto:[protected]@yahoo.com]
Sent: sábado, 12 de febrero de 2011 02:43
To: Elena Atanasova
Subject: Re: Z64OYY

WHAT?
70 euro more without giving any specific reason?
Are you crazy?
I have a booking-/confirmation from you, sent and printed Thursday.
I consider this legally binding.
I send a screenshot in an attachement.
What kind of company are you?
Kinds regards,  
F van der Harst,
Ulaan Baatar Mongolia

-- On Sat, 2/12/11, Elena Atanasova wrote:
From: Elena Atanasova
Subject: RE: Z64OYY
To: "'ganbolor oyundari'"
Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 4:23 AM

Dear customer,
 We would like to remind you that  our fares can only be guaranteed for 24hrs. This period includes week-ends and bank holidays.
 Please let us know if you would like to make a new reservation, so that we can cancel the reservation Z64OYY.
 
Kind regards
 Elena Atanasova
Flights Department
elena.[protected]@edreams.com

From: ganbolor oyundari [mailto:[protected]@yahoo.com]
Sent: sábado, 12 de febrero de 2011 15:21
To: Elena Atanasova
Subject: RE: Z64OYY

Sorry mss Atanasova, I think you don't understand the real situation.
You can not hold me responsible for not answering you within 24 hours, if you don't want to take into account that there is a 7 -hours time-difference between UlaanBaatar/Mongolia and Spain. I have checked my mail every 5 minutes, since replying to your mail yesterday-evening.

As said, we live in Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia.
The reservation Z64OYY is for a flight from Beijing to Bangkok, two way, for my 20-yr-old daughter.
She is on the way to the airport in Beijing, with a printed confirmation of her flight-booking from your company in her pocket, but no telephone or other means of communication.
She left Ulaan Baatar 28 hours ago by train, Friday-afternoon, thinking her flight-reservation was all in order, since my credit-card would take care of payment.
Then late friday-evening you tell me my card has 'some problem'.
My card has no problem at all, it has a 2500 euro daily limit.
Ulaan Baatar and Beijing are 2500 km apart, she travels by train and bus, about 42 hours altogether,  and you ask me if I want to change my reservation?
Of course not!
And still you gave me no reason for the sudden 75 euro price-hike.

Tonight or tomorrow-morning she will arrive in Beijing, and will check this mail-address.
If there is no confirmation of payment, and she read this conversation, she will go immediately to the offices of SouthernChina Airlines herself, she speaks fluent Chinese.
If they refuse her the ticket that you have reserved for her, for the price stated in the confirmation, I see no other way than to hold you and your company liable for the ensuing costs.
I may be far away, and have no personal face for you, but I am not crazy nor stupid.
So please bill my credit card for the amount of €370, 24, and send us a confirmation of that.

Greetings,
F van der Harst,  
Ulaan Baatar

---After sending the email above, I called International Card Services in Holland, who issued my VISA-card, they said there was no problem, and indeed eDreams has tried to withdraw 370 euro from my card-account, BUT HAD THEN CANCELLED THAT…
I sent the email below:

Dear Mss Atanasove
For safety's sake I have called my credit-card-company, ICS, they have assured me there is absolutely nothing wrong with my credit.
They stated that eDreams tried to charge me for 370 euro, which was OK'd, AND THEN WITHDREW THAT REQUEST, thursday-morning Februari 10, European time.
Which to me means, it is not my fault that certain time-frames are running out.

SO I repeat my questions:
Why do you try to charge me 75 euro's more?
Why do you not trust my credit-card, if even ICS says I am totally OK?
Why do you send flight-confirmations if they are worth nothing?
Why do you you blame me for delays which are surely NOT my fault?

I did some reading in complaints-blogs on the net, it seems you as a company solve problems only AFTER they end upon the Big Bad Blogosfere.
Rest assured I will do my utmost best to make sure EVERY visitor to your website will know about how you treat your customers.

My daughter will show up well in time Monday-morning to catch flight CZ3180, and we hold you responsible if she is not to fly then and there.
And FYI, that is Morning-time BEijing-time!

An angry father,
F van der Harst
UlaanBaataar
Mongolia.

They relplied swiftly:

Dear madam,
We already refunded the amount on your credit card ( I m sending you the provment) and the only option for paing this reservation is bank tranfer. have in mind that the reservation is confirm,
but there is no ticket issued.   As soon as we recive the bank transfer we can issue the ticket.
 
[protected] 10/02/2011 08:52 PAID 375.34 EUR VINT OK
[protected] 10/02/2011 08:52 REFUNDED 375.34 EUR VINT
Confirmación o Refund finalizado con éxito
 
Elena Atanasova
Flights Department
elena.[protected]@edreams.com

Then I sent this, and she put her answers in between`:

--- On Sat, 2/12/11, Elena Atanasova wrote:
From: Elena Atanasova
Subject: RE: Z64OYY-2
To: "'ganbolor oyundari'"
Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 9:27 AM

Dear madam,
Please find bellow the answers of your questions. Have a nice evening!
kind regards,
 
Elena Atanasova
Flights Department
elena.[protected]@edreams.com

From: ganbolor oyundari [mailto:[protected]@yahoo.com]
Sent: sábado, 12 de febrero de 2011 15:58
To: Elena Atanasova
Subject: RE: Z64OYY-2
Saturday, February 12, 2011, 9:27 AM
Dear madam,
Please find bellow the answers of your questions. Have a nice evening!
 
For safety's sake I have called my credit-card-company, ICS, they have assured me there is absolutely nothing wrong with my credit.
They stated that eDreams tried to charge me for 370 euro, which was OK'd, AND THEN WITHDREW THAT REQUEST, thursday-morning Februari 10, European time.
Which to me means, it is not my fault that certain time-frames are running out.

SO I repeat my questions:
Why do you try to charge me 75 euro's more? 
*The only option of payment for this reservation is bank transfer, and till we not recive the payment we can not garantee the price of the ticket.
Why do you not trust my credit-card, if even ICS says I am totally OK? 
*It is for security messures and it is part of the company rules. 
Why do you send flight-confirmations if they are worth nothing?  
*The first email is reservation only. You have to  recive second email with e ticket.
Why do you you blame me for delays which are surely NOT my fault?
**no answer!**
I did some reading in complaints-blogs on the net, it seems you as a company solve problems only AFTER they end upon the Big Bad Blogosfere.
Rest assured I will do my utmost best to make sure EVERY visitor to your website will know about how you treat your customers.

My daughter will show up well in time Monday-morning to catch flight CZ3180, and we hold you responsible if she is not to fly then and there.
And FYI, that is Morning-time BEijing-time!
An angry father,
F van der Harst
UlaanBaataar
Mongolia.

3 o'clock in the morning, I paid €370 Bank to Bank, then sent this email:

You really need to learn emails:
1) -I am a FATHER, not a 'madam'.
2) -you don't answer my question about HOW MUCH I should pay Bank-to-Bank.
3) -you don't answer wether a screenshot-PDF will do as proof-of-payment.

On the first  error only you can act, the other two I have done to my best possibilities:
-I just paid 370 euro and a trifling to mentioned bank account, in London.
-I have made screenshots of that transaction as it show up in my online-bank website, as I have really no way of sending a fax from Mongolia at this hour (Sunday-morning 03.00 AM)
Please find them attached as PDF.
And now I will get some sleep, and not be able to answer any email for 8 hours.
F van der Harst
Ulaan Baatar
Mongolia

All Sunday it was extremely quiet, although I checked mail very ten minutes.
We were worried that we heard nothing of either daughter or Atanasova, but hey, it seemed to work.
No news is sometimes good news.

As I mentioned above, our daughter had departed Friday-afternoon by Mongolian local train to Zamin-UUd on the Chinese border, to arrive 6 in the morning the next day, Saturday.
She then hopped across with a border-crossing-bus service, she had bought a ticket for this in UB.
In the Chinese border-town of Erlian she was to take a sleeper-bus to Bejing, trusting that there would be place.
These busses normally run every two hours, and take 10-12 hours to get there.
But because of New-Year, there were so little passengers that several busses were cancelled.
She arrived in Bejing Sunday-morning early, found a cheap hotel, and spent the day in Beijing looking around, thinking her ticket to Bangkok was in order.
For assorted reasons Oyundairi did not contact us, but hey, why should she?
She took an early nap and Sunday-morning 4.00 Oyundairi showed up in Bejing Capital Airport, 3 hours before flight-time.
As feared, no ticket, no reservation, no name, no eDreams, nothing.
Big fight, lot's of angry people, big energy-sucking mess.

Eventually she went back to the city to contact us, as she did not want to use the $10/hour internet in the airport.
Our Valentine-Monday morning started with a nice conversation, we found a better flight, Dragon-Air, of which the offices are right outside the internet-cafe where she was.
I sent her to buy a ticket for cash money there.
I hope that works, and she will fly to Bangkok later today.
And I wrote an email to Ms Atanasova, again:

Good morning, Ms Atanasova,
I hope your morning will be as perfect as my weekend was wretched.

This morning my daughter Oyundairi went to Bejing Capital Airport, to fly to Bangkok, but there was no reservation or ticket in her name, even though I paid BtB on Saturday as you said I had to do. 
I suppose something went wrong in all the confusion about BtB and supposedly non-working credit-cards, or maybe time-zones.
Also Southern China Airlines assured her that flying to Bangkok for the price suggested on your website is absolutely impossible.
Please advise those in charge of your web-search-machine.

I don't do this everyday, and judging from your replies to my questions, you do neither.
So let's forget about trying to book a ticket through you and your company.
It seems eDreams is really that, just a dream.

Now, about the money:
I consider nothing of this all my fault, as I also outline in a copy of our conversation below.
I already transferred €370.24 to the bank-account of eDreams in London, please be so good as to send it back without delay.
And don't dare to subtract not even a cent for 'transfer-costs' or 'reservations' or whatever idea you may come up with!

My bank details:
F van der Harst, Breda.

ING-bank Amsterdam
Account nr 3816013
IBAN ING NL37 INGB [protected]

Thanx so far,  
I hope this is the last email I need to write to you,
have a nice life.

F van der Harst, Ulaan Baatar.

Around lunchtime in Europe I sent another one:

Hi Ms Atanasova,  
How's your Monday coming along?
Mine is pretty f**cked up.
What about refunding my 370 Euro?

Grt
F van der Harst
Ulaan Baatar,  
Mongolia.

After lunch I sent another slightly polite request:

Hi ms Atanasova, how was your lunch?
Mine was reasonably horrible.
My daughter is on the way from Bijing to Bangkok COMPLETELY not due to your efforts.
Quite the contrairy.
It is now evening here in Ulaan Baatar, and I think it high time for you to react.
I might get some sleep tonight.
Below I have copied all details for you, just to make sure we are talking about the same ###.
Please reply as quickly as you did before, before I sent my money your way.

Grt
F vander Harst
Ulaan Bataar,  
Mongolia.

I have booked with eDreams before and hadn't had a problem until this week.
Right before I book my flight, I reviewed the cost and accepted the charges, etc for the flight. I receive my confirmation email a few minutes later and noticed that there is a fee for the travel agency that WAS NOT listed under the agreement statement i accepted. I emailed customer service and the claims department, only to receive condescending emails that state the airline charge was noted upon confirmation. NO IT WAS NOT. The charge was added AFTER I submitted my payment and they keep telling me that i'm in error when it's clear that there was an authorized charge. I'm so irritated because the phone numbers listed on their site DON'T WORK! and i might never get this resolved. Lesson learned, not booking with these jerks again!

Can anyone give us an actual number for eDreams - they have cancelled our return flight and we can't get hold of them

I attempted to book a flight from johannesburg south africa to london (for my son who needed to urgently return to uk). Edreams offered a number of choices the best being 16/12/2010 etihad airlines 1355 to london via abu dabi £387. I accepted the offer and entered the visa electron debit card detail. Immediately I received an email advising a booking reference 5qs4wz but that there was a problem with my card and that they would advise what to do in order to effect payment and secure a ticket. They then demanded photocopies of my debit card /passport / id. I immediately went to my bank and was told the edreams had been credited with £487 at the moment of the transaction online 7.30 pm 16/12/2010. I attempted to fax them - no response. I attempted to phone - no response. I have emailed them many times requesting a ticket issue or refund - no response. Ian. [protected]@gmail.com

Two days ago I have booked multiple destination tickets (London-Prague / Prague-Zurich / Zurich-London). We checked the booking thoroughly before proceeding with the payment (since I read some bad reviews on this company on various websites). Everything appeared to be fine so I proceeded with the payment.
The following day I opened the e-mail with booking confirmation and found that the date of the last journey (Zurich-London) was not correct (instead of 10 days after the second flight they booked me a ticket leaving just two hours after the second flight)! I contacted the company via e-mail to allert them and received response to call spanish number. There I was informed that they cannot do anything unless I pay over 80 euros for modification of the booking plus of course additional extra for the flight ticket should the price of the ticket at the correct date changed since the booking. Since I am not the only one with the same problem (I found several reviews with identical issue) I suspect that they may have some bug on their website causing this. Their customer service is way bellow the UK standard - unreachable, calls expensive, staff at call centre rude and unhelpful. I would advice anyone who is consider purchasing anything from this company to avoid them at all costs! NIGHTMARE.

My son had to book a last minute business flight from Switzerland to Germany and booked a flight through eDreans the day before he wanted to fly. Everything appeared to go smoothly and they emailed him an e-ticket for a Lufthanza flight from Geneva to Munich. On arriving at the airport his e-ticket was invalid and he had to pay again for a flight to Frankfurt (it was imperitive that he get to his business meeting the next day). I have now discovered that this company has been defrauding/robbing people for many years. Why are they still trading?!

I am having another bad-bitter experience with eDreams. After doing my booking (from Frankfurt to Prishtina) I received a confirmation (email) of reservation but no e-ticket was sent. Next day I got another email from e person Xavier Ramirez and I was advised to send a copy of my passport and a copy of my credit card so as to do more check. I told him that I will not give him copy neither or my passport or credit card and they should inform whether they want to cancel the flight or confirm it since I already did many booking with the same credit card. I tried to reach the phone number he gave in the email and they are invalid. I am not aware of any respectable-serious company who would ask for such confidential-personal information to be faxed or emailed. For me This is robbery attempt.
I am really furious why such crock-company should exist and urge everyone not to books with this company. I would like that this company no longer exists or close down.

So a few days ago I attempted to buy tickets from eDreams from Rome, Italy to Seville, Spain and I experienced some difficulties. The tickets were booked and I noticed a few days later that my credit card account was off. I go into the transactions page and I find a list of 75 transactions from eDreams sucking away my money for no reason. They have stolen triple the amount that I was supposed to pay for the tickets. Then came the next problem...the lack of customer service.

The customer service section has not responded to one of my emails over the past 4 days except to tell me that they did not receive the emails from before. Then when I resend them the email from before (mind you I hit reply from their message) I still receive no response. Dealing with this company has been a NIGHTMARE. Their phone numbers are bogus as they do not work from landlines from Italy or the United States, so it is literally impossible to get in contact with this company when the time calls for it. If you have to book a flight anywhere

Yesterday, I booked an air ticket with "edreams.fr" which cost around
800 Euros. Just after the payment I was notified that they have taken 1600 Euros from my bank account! The first 800 Euros is for the price of the ticket and the other 800 is to be returned within a month. It is amazing that this dishonest fraudulent practice is not illegal. Even if they return the money as they promise, it creates too much unnecessary stress, inconvenience, and problems for thousands of people.

AVOID edreams before you start dreaming about your own money!

Alex