PCS Legal Dept/Advance Cash USA — claiming a lawsuit has been filed against me
I have received several phone calls from different people, all with Arabian accents so thick i can barely understand them, and all claiming American names - very simple American names. Today the Supervisor I spoke with was Brian Smith and Kenny answered the phone. They are claiming I received $300 deposited to my bank account in October of 2010. The funny thing is my account was not opened until December of 2010. I have bank statements showing nothing has been put into my account. I have since filed a complaint with the OAG in New Mexico and am preparing to file the same complaint in NY and CA where these companies claim to be. The other company that has contacted me is claiming to be a law office in California. I contacted the State Bar of California and have never heard of that law office. It was Steve Williams & Associates. I am so frustrated because i want to find these people and make them pay for what they are doing to people. When I research the company names or phone numbers, I cannot find anything unless I pay for it. There has to be something we can do to press charges against these scammers.
I received a call from a man with a Middle Eastern accent claiming to be Ryan Brooks. He stated that he was calling from Jackson Law Firm and that there was a lawsuit filed against me and my social security number regarding a payday loan from August of last year taking out from Cash Advance USA. My husband and I called the number back and my husband spoke to this man briefly. We were given a number to call this cash advance place to verify some information because I had never taken out a cash advance. The man said it was done online and the number given was [protected]. When we called the number it turned out to be a personal cell number and of course, no answer. I can only guess that my information was stolen when I had applied for an auto loan online. I now know that that was a very DUMB idea. I immediately took steps to protect my identity and social, oh then I called this guy back and scolded him for trying to scam money from hard working people. It did make me feel better, but I just can't help but think that other people out there are made to be so scared that they give in and send money to these crooks! Please beware of this scam and do not let yourself become a victim.
a verified customer
I received a call today from a guy identifying himself as a US Investigating Crime Unit Supervisor, Officier Ben Blackmore. Mr. Blackmore told me that I had a outstanding loan that I did not pay. I explained to him that I did not take a long out to a Cash Advance USA branch. I asked him when he told me April 15, 2011. I told him that I dont have a record, and he will have to provide me with that information. he called me on 954.639.9259. I called the number back to see if i could indeed identify the office he was calling me from. I hung up because it did not seem legitimate. he had a strong foreign accent that sent me into alert. he called off my address, bank account information and my social security number and asked me to settle this debt of 475.00 for the original loan and that he would settle this complaint at a cost of 665.00 if i took care of it immediately if i do not they will prosecute me and that is his job. he was giving me a chance to avoid going to court and them prosecuting me and that i would never get another loan and he would have me fired from my job. I hung up on him, and he called me back again. I explained to him to do not contact me again on my business line so he has not called me back. The email address that he says that I used to make this transaction is for junk mail, and never would I have conducted business under that email address so I know that he is not telling the truth. I had my account frozen on today because I am really scared based on the information that he provided.
I have recieved phone calls from same company at 6 differnt numbers, stating I took out a cash loan in march 2010 for 400 that I have not paid back. I never took out loan for any cach advance. I did apply for one with a sight that matched me with 100 lenders was not approved, so I know thats how they got my info.I went online an enter scams of cash advance usa an found this site. I am glad to know I wasnt the only one.So I decided to harasse them. I have called the numbers they called from over an over harrassing them back telling them they are frauds. you know it made them very angry.I even heard one of them say shes blocking are lines.GOOD means no one else gets harrassed. My suggestion is to harrasse them back!
a verified customer
I recieved a similar call recently and was told I got a loan for 300 and I had to pay back 6, 000 or I would be arrested, He had all my information and I didn't know what to say to him. I've never recieved a loan from Cash Advance. How can we take care of this situation if it continues? He knows my SS#, my DOB and address. It frightened me
UPDATE: I CALLED THEM 4 HOURS IN A ROW CALLING THEM SCAMERS. WELL HE FINALLY ANSWERED PHONE AN SAID "WHATS YOUR PROBLEM" I SAID YOU ARE CALLING ME HARRASSING ME WITH FRAUD FROM 6 DIFFERNT NUMBERS. I WONT STOP TILL YOU DO. HE SAID "IM REMOVING YOUR NUMBER NOW" BEEN REALLY QUITE HERE. WOOHOO.
a verified customer
Call the police and report it now! Give them the phone number.
They are harrassing us too. Called last week saying we owed $295.00 then they call today saying we owe $345, and last week he said his name was scott jones and this week he's jack logan. They have thick accents so thick you can't understand them. The number he called me from today was [protected], and he said he was calling from tampa bay, florida. I don't believe them. He had all of our checking info, address, etc tho. Very scary. Wondering with our info, what he might do with it.
The same thing has happened to me this morning but it was "supposdly" someone calling from the credit department saying they were suing me. I haven't took out any loans and I'm not sure what to do. The numbers they called from showed up "1200" and "Unavailable" so there's nothing to call back and I can't find a number for Cash Advanced USA anywhere. HELP!!!
a verified customer
I am also receiving calls from this place. I did the exact thing. I applied online and was declined, but they found other lenders. I to am being harrassed by them. I receive calls from [protected]. They said they are with PCS lawfirm in Brooklyn. They claim to be taking me to court. I've been calling them to trying to get information because I recently filed bankruptcy. I asked them for a physical address where I can send payment to and they said they did not have one. They suggested that I buy a prepaid debit card and make the payment that way. If they were a legit company they would have sent me to collections by now. They are a scam. The BBB even has a listing on them and says they are scams. http://www.bbb.org/cincinnati/business-reviews/collection-agencies/us-cash-advance-phony-debt-collectors-in-cincinnati-oh-90002652/
a verified customer
We have been getting phone calls 4 to 5 times a day from a Person that refuses to identify themselves from a Law firm (Stone & Assoc) stating they are going to file criminal chrages against my wife and her social security number for refusing to pay back a $200.00 pay day loan from Cash Advace USA. We paid that loan back two weeks after we receive it, now they state that we owe $10, 000.00 which includes attorney fees. The phone number they call from is different everytime, the latest number is [protected]. The area code varies depending on the day of the week, so far we have them from 270, 940, 520, 317, 515, 703 and 202. The person speaks with a very deep Indian or Pakistani accent and is rude and threatening. They refuse to provide or send any information unless we have an attorney. I will update this complaint with more phone numbers as they come in...
I received a call from a man who had a heavy Indian accent. He stated I had received a payday loan and did not pay it. I told him I had never received a loan and could print out a copy of my bank statement to prove it. He then got angry and stated he did know nothing about the loan but that I needed to pay him $300. He then stated that he knew exactly where I was at and would have me arrested in 45 minutes. While searching for the contact number for Cash Advance USA, I came across this website with a list of similar incidents and complaints. When I called the number back to inform him that I wouldn't be paying him and that it was a scam, he then started using vulgar language and to top it off he said he would "blow up" our house, and that he would never get caught. I think it's ridiculous that this type of scam has not been stopped. Something should be done.
Next time you hear from them, let them know from them moment you identify yourself that you are recording the phone call, also let them know any other communications & all phone numbers from this point on will also be recorded because you feel threatened and that you feel you are being scammed and until they can provide you with legal documents proving who they are and what they are trying to collect you will not send them any money per the FBI . (this is what I was told to do by the FBI) This deters alot of these scammers from calling over and over. Get a cheap recording device and use it! Call your local police and file a police report as well as the 3 major credit bureaus and the social security department cause they have your numbers. The FBI website also has an email link on their site to identity theif crimes. You can email them as well. This is a classic scam where you have sent your information online to someone and these people have it.WHATEVER YOU DO, DONT SEND THEM A PENNY!
a verified customer
As promised here is another phone number [protected], this number belongs to a Robert G Main in Jacksonville, Florida. It would figure they are calling from Florida, the state with the most scammers, since they refuse to prosecute or pass laws to protect the comsumer. I have also contacted the real law firm of Stone & Assoc. in Jacksonville. Lets see if they call me back and what they have to say.
A man named Michael Johnson called and gave me the
telephone number [protected]) at the Law Office of John Morrison and told me to call Kevin Peterson about a law suit against me. I called the number and this guy answers the phone. He told me not to interrupt him and he would explain everything. He started list some charges against me: internet fraud, bank fraud, money laundering and failure to pay money that was deposited into my bank account by Cash Advance USA. When I told him that I never received any wire transfer for $500 from Cash Advance USA. He told me that the police was going to come to my job and drag me to jail. Then he hung up when I asked him to repeat what he said. I never received any money from Cash Advance USA.
a verified customer
The middle eastern man you could hardly understand has called me now two times and said that I got a pay day loan in 2010 and that they were filing criminal charges against me. I explained I was a 42 year old woman who was disabled to a wheel chair and that I had no bank account and hadn't had one since I was in my 20's. They said I had a check out standing. I explained to the man I had never heard of this mecca bank and there was no such bank where I live. The number orriginated in Compton CA and when I tried to call it back it said the number was non working. The number was [protected]. I just got a return call from them I explained again I never recieved a loan from anyone. He said don't worry miss Tammy the company will call you in 2 to 3 days. Call me for what? I don't owe them anything I don't have a bank and haven't for years now. I was flat on my back and unable to walk let alone go get a payday loan. Besides I had money from my accident then and why would I get a stupid pay day loan when I had money. Besides I was on my back and couldn't even spend any money if I wanted to. These people are really starting to freak me out. What do I do about this?
First let me apologize for any language I may use, but I am pissed off. This sand-monkey called my office today asking for an ex-employee, told him this person no longer worked there, he asked for the HR Dept. I told him I was the office manager, he kept demanding for HR, finally he threathend me with arrest for not giving that ex-employee's information. Me, being a collector I asked him, "are you threatening me" he said yes he would have me arrested, the ### I am, I told him to bring it on big boy, you do not scare me. He started yelling at me and I just hung up on him, and I will be dad gummed if the SOB called me right back and I asked why I hung on him, I told him because i Was at work and he pissed me off, he again threatened, and I said some un-lady like words to him and hung up again. The ignorant SOB gave me his #, guess who got a phone call once I got home, told him I had checked and the name he gave me was not for an attorney in North Carolina, I checked the NC Bar Assoc., I advised him I would be reporting his information to the ABI (Alabama Bureau of Investigation. He said go ahead, again I said will you damn sand monkey. I wish he would come to Alabama, I have friends that will be wiling to help him back to his native country ( you can't understand him because he has a heavy overseas accent, not like us Americans talk, and he is not from our precious United States. If anyone has any other information that can help me out, I would appreciate you posting it and I will be checking it regularly. If this sand monkey is reading this, I hope he understands he does not need to piss off a Southern Alabama girl, we look for revenge. WATCH OUT SAND-MONKEY, I AM LOOKING FOR YOU
Receiving mulitple calls on cellphone, home phone, work phone stating I owe money and we can settle. My phone at work has picked up a number with the Country code of 91, which is the code for India. Calls are from John and Shawn which is to be a supervisor, but they sound like the same person. They hang up or get irritated when you ask questions. Have threatened to come to job, I invited them to come on down. I am continuing to call them back to obtain as much information as I can to file with the FTC, FCC and State Attorney General. Please be aware. They have personal information so I changed bank accounts and added an alert on my Credit Report. Please file a formal complaint so that these folks can be stopped. I am sure they are having some success which is why they keep doing it. Be careful and file a formal complaint, the more information or complaints received the more they can do to stop them.
i just got a call form a number [protected] saying that i recived a 300 hunrderd dollar loan and they want me to pay it back or i will have to go to court . they say that it went in my bank, i called my bank they looked up all depiots going in and that one wasn't in there . ill go to court with the prof but if anyone can help me please let me know .
a verified customer
Yeah, these sons a [censored]es, whomever the scammers are, are crazy as hell and insane. To all consumers and potential victims of this crap, DO NOT buy into it AT ALL, knowing for yourself that you've never taken out a payday advance from the con artist perpetrators who now are going by the fraud name "Ace Cash Services." Here is the copied-pasted email I received from the losers on December 3, 2015:
CUSTOMER ID: [protected]
CASE FILE #: AR - 9985472
INFORMATION
PAST DUE AMOUNT - $945.32
CREDITOR - ACE CASH SERVICES
Accounts Department of Cash Advance has decided to mark this case as a flat refusal and press legal charges against you.
You are going to be legally prosecuted in the Courthouse within couple of days. Your S.S.N is put on hold by US Government, so before something goes wrong we would like to notify you about this matter.
Consider this as a final warning. And we will be Emailing/ Fax this issue to your current employer to make sure they take strict action against you. Your salary wages will be garnished too.
THERE ARE 3 SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS AGAINST YOU:
(1) VIOLATION OF FEDERAL BANKING REGULATION
(2) COLLATERAL CHECK FRAUD
(3) THEFT BY DECEPTION
We will be forced to proceed legally against you and once it is processed the creditor has entire rights to inform your employer and your references regarding this issue and the lawsuit will be the next step which will be amounting to $3931.08 and will be totally levied upon you and that would be excluding your attorney charges. If you take care of this out of court then we will release the clearance certificate from the court and we will make sure that no one will contact you in future.
Do revert back if you want to get rid of these legal consequences and make a payment arrangement today or else we would be proceeding legally against you. And this is to notify you that this notification will also be sent to your current employer. The opportunity to take care of this voluntary is quickly coming to an end. We would hate for you to lose the option of resolving this before it goes to the next step which is a Lawsuit against you, but to do so you must take immediate action.
If you want to resolve this matter then immediately contact us thru email or call us at [protected] between working hours 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM (EST)
Ace Cash Services
Phone: [protected]
Department of Law & Enforcement(ACS)
Copyright © 2015 ACS | Privacy | Terms of use
a verified customer
Well..its been 2 yrs...every 6 months. They call my job...same story as all yhe others...cursing me out...my supervisor...and property manager. Was JUST now called into the office. Had to have my boss...his boss..AND the HR. Basically i was told that if they keep calling and preventing my coworkers from doing their job, that further measures would be taken..in other words..FIRED!!!...I am beyond frustrated. It seems ludicrous to have to deal with the anxiety that comes along with the fear of being fired. File a complaint?...of course...but why?...when these ppl who cant speak a lick of english are sitting back and enjoying the harassment they do.
CUSTOMER ID: 895874
CASE FILE #: NC - 545521
LOAN INFORMATION
PAST DUE AMOUNT -$965.15
CREDITOR - ACE CASH SERVICES.
You are going to be legally prosecuted in the Court House within couple of days. Your SSN is put on hold by US Government, so before something goes wrong we would like to notify you about this matter.
Same here i am sick of them!!! I will report them.
I had 3 hangup clowns from some clown today not sure if these are the same being complained about on this board but it's more than annoying. I hope to get to the bottom of this!
I never give out anything about me on the internet. NOTHING and it is illigal to call someone and ask for information. legitimate companies don't do that. a reputable compay will tell you to never put your information out there. I had someone from russia to access my computer and it looked exactly like my virus protection. my bank called me and denied their charge and told me it was a scam from russia. thank God for Bank of America.
i have fun with these scammers i give them a fake name and fake socil and see where it goes and then i really f%$k with them and they usally hang up but i call right back like they do and so on dont let them get to you you can not go to jail for any debt. or not payin a bill ex. the irs
THIS IS A SCAM. YOU CANNOT BE ARRESTED AND THEY CANNOT COME ANYWHERE NEAR YOU. REPORT THEM TO YOUR ATTORNEY GENERAL. A LITTLE RESEARCH WILL SAVE YOU A TON OF MONEY AND GRIEF. THEY DO THIS BECUASE MOST WILL NOT FIGHT BACK. THEY WERE DOING THIS TO MY MOTHER SO I ASKED THEM FOR ANY CONTRACT THAT SHE SIGNED SAYING SHE OWED THIS DEBT. I TOLD THEM I WAS HER ATTORNEY AND I TURNED THE TABLES ON THEM AND TOLD THEM THAT IF THEY DID NOT SEND A LEGAL BINDING AGREEMENT TO ME IN 24HOURS I WAS REPORTING THEM TO THE FBI FRAUD UNIT AND GETTING A PI TO TRACK THEM DOWN AND HAVE THEM ARRESTED. HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THEM SINCE. BUT I AM VERY CONCERNED TO SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY ARE DOING THIS TO AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT. DON'T LET THEM. REMEMBER, NO BILL COLLECTOR CAN DO THIS. READ THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTION LAWS. THEY HAVE BEEN CHANGED TO PROTECT THE CONSUMER. PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR MONEY WITH KNOWLEDGE. REPORT THEM - YES - BUT REMEMBER THESE GRIMY ### THIEVING COWARDS WILL ONLY BE STOPPED IF WE STOP THEM.
I've been getting calls again. They come and go. I can go several months without a call then they start back up. In 2 days i have gotten 7 calls from the following numbers [protected], [protected], [protected], [protected]. I have filed complaints with the Kansas AG office, local sheriff office and BBB. Last time they were calling they were using voice over ip and it was showing a local police disbatch number. I really wish we these people (damn scammers) would stop calling.
I have never been to say that i am being sued, but I have recieved phone calls on my sister-in-laws behalf. I recieved a call from a Shawn Williams, but it was an Arabic accent. Hmm... How many foriegners have a common U.S. name? After calling my sister-in-law she said that she had been recieving the calls too about a cash advanc loan that she took out 10 yrs. She has bank records stating that it was paid of and a notarized affidavit from the company stating that she has paid the loan. Well, I have a good friend in the military who specializes in Communications Intellegence he was game for getting invloved to help figure out who they are... Well, I just happened to be at his base one day when I recieved a phone call from call from them. He was able to get a lock in their phone signal using military grade equipment and the number was traced back to a Brooklynn address.. Well, I made a special trip to Brooklyn to finally have a face to face. This had been going for 10 years and I had had enough. After going to the address, it was an old ruined down building that had a sign said that it was abandoned. I knocked a couple of times and no one answered, so I decided to check the back door... Well, the back door was unlocked and when i entered the back room had computers and phones set up, but no one was there. I called the police to report it and the confiscated all the equipment and started their investigation. The have kept me up to date on things and have busted up four different buildings in NYC and Brooklyn. So far they have not been busted up, but I have filed a lawsuit against the company in NYC and Brooklyn. They contacted me once more, last year, and started cussing me out. I informed them that they were being tracked by the police and that I have filed a lawsuit against them and that I had personally visited one of their offices that were busted. They quickly said "F*#ck You" and hung up. Dont know if this will help anything or make matters worse, but I did what I could to help out my sister-in-law.
According to the dates of these complaints that these guys have been in business for a while. I just received a call from another foreign sounding man demanding I have my mother call him. Apparently she committed fraud and I was used as a reference therefore i will be receiving legal implications as well. I called back and the man was very unprofessional and would not give me any information, claiming it was "none of my business" I repeatedly asked him the name of his organization and whether i could take to someone in charge. I got the same "none of your business" reply. I promptly went to the internet after finally getting a reply of PCS Legal Department. Obviously a hoax.
a verified customer
I too have been receiving these harrassing, rude, threatening emails over the last few weeks. Th ey continue to contact me at work even though I have stated that they do not call me there and they state they will take my work number off so that I don't lose my job, but that is nothing but a big fat lie!!! I also cannot understand the people who call and there names have been Shaun Collins and an Eric Smith. They are threatening me with court action on Monday. Their number is [protected]. They to want me to make a payment on Monday either by a green dot card or a Visa card. I need to let them know that they are a fraud as well. We all need to stick together.
I have recieved up to 20 calls yesterday and 37 today btwn my job and cell phone I filed a harrassment compliant today the guy that is calling is claiming to work for PCS with a extremely thick accent.. the police office has spoke with this guy and advised him to contact me legally through the mail... which I have never recieved anything via mail regarding this company... the guy wont even explain what this is about just keeps saying that I will be in a legal mayhem if I dont settle this debt, with no claim number or account number this is a Scam anyone with any information on how this can be stopped please share...
a verified customer
I have had the same issue with these idiots and do not even know how they got my info, I have been trying to get these calls to stop and they never do, also Indian peoole with America names like my recent was Eric Williams. LOL I hope these people get what is coming to them. I have a huge fraud alert incase.
a verified customer
I keep getting calls from this place also telling me i have to contact them within a certain period of time or they will damage my credit score and take me to court. Something needs to be done about these people and their fraudulant activities.
This is like a cycle. . They seem to call every few months or so. . . No one can give me any concrete paperwork on anything. . . All they can agree on is that i owe money for a payday loan. . . Cannot tell me when or where it went or even how much. All they give is the amount they want and even that varies. One guy called and said $i owed $8, 000 in a payday loan. . . If i had that kind of loan amount i would not have ny debt. . . But anyway they said that i could settle out of court for $3, 000 or go to court and possibly pay $90, 000. . . Huge jump from owing $8, 000. . . It is sad that american are being harrassed by these people. Some are crazy enough to pay them without any proof, they just want the calls to stop. . . I told them they need to do what they need to do and i will do what i need to do on my end. . . Of course them having me fired and then arrested is kind of stupid. . . How do you pay someone with no income???
a verified customer
I received another phone call from these people today. I have never taken out any payday loan. Also, they are calling on my cell phone number but using my husband's name. They left the message on my voice mail that he was having criminal charges filed on him tomorrow and that the local authorites and investigators would be coming to his place of work and home tomorrow morning. I decided to call them back because I have had these phone calls before back in January/ February. After being put on hold quite a few times, I finally got someone to talk to. Here's my advice - I immediately stopped the man from talking; I told him that it was really funny how I was told I was "going to be prosecuted and go to jail" back in January - and that they were coming "tomorrow". I said now it is May and I'm still here. He tried talking again, but I told him I knew this was a scam, I had read about it being a scam in the news and I have reported this to the authorities. They hung up on me. I'll let you know if I hear from them anymore. Maybe it would be fun to call them and harrass them just as they have harrassed all of us.
I have been getting calls at work and on my cell phone. Yesterday I received a voice mail from a man named Ricky Jones. Phone number [protected]. He left a message on my cell phone that said he is a police officer and I have 3 criminal investigations against me. He claimed he was sending a report to my local sheriff's office and that within 2 days a police officer will show up at my work and at my home to arrest me for fraud. Today the same thing... same voice mail from Ricky Jones. I called him back and now he is claiming to be Jackie Williams. When I questioned him on the name change and why yesterday he said he was Ricky Jones and today Jackie Williams he got defensive and said that was his 3rd name. He told me that I owed money for a loan that I had wired into my account from a USA cash loan place. I told him I never had a loan wired into my account. He called me a liar and that I am committing fraud. He rattled off a social security number that is wrong but he did have my place of employment right and my address. I told him he was a scammer and he started screaming at me and called me a [censored]. I never raised my voice. I told him he will be hearing from my attorney and I hung up. I just went down to the police station and filed a police report. They will be calling this company. Well see what happens.
a verified customer
I have received multiple calls from this "company" as well. They state that I took out a loan in October 2010 for $300 and that they are about to file a legal suit against me because I have not paid back. They do have the last 4 numbers of my social security number and my name. The funny thing is - they have my wife's cell phone number but all my information. Another funny thing is that we were out of the country the month of October 2010 so there is no way this is accurate. I have checked all my past bank statements and see no deposit made during that time frame. I have contacted my bank and the BBB to report this scam. I would suggest other's do this as well. Please do not listen to their empty threats. They have threatened me many times. However, when I ask for proof of this they say they can not do this because it is against their policy. I have never heard of any company that has a policy of not providing proof of their services. This is a scam and anyone that is affected should contact their bank, credit reporting agencies and the BBB. They need to be stopped.
I have also been getting similar calls. They will not give me any actual information that makes any sense. My caller was "MikeThompson" and the number he left was: [protected]. They are now calling my co-worker telling them that I have involved them in some kind of legal fraud and they need to have me take care of this before they file legal action (this is always happening tomorrow). I did call the number back and an Indian accent person answered the phone, but I just hung up. They called me several times this week as well as my co-worker. They called me several months ago and I told them this was not legitimate and to stop calling. They called back 25 times in a row leaving nasty messages every time.
i call from from PCs legal and scheme company.. my name David black this company is full ###ed working, ... no any work provided to USA people ...it..only for fraud ac-ti with ...their life ...
I have received several calls myself. Everyone please remember, they are ONLY giving the last four of your social, NEVER give them the rest. When the loans are applied for online, this information is out there for anyone and anyone can view the last four of your social...don't fall for them! I called them and told "Bob Smith' (Strong foreign accent), to stop calling me or I would call a lawyer and he started yelling at me. Don't fall for this!!! Know who you do business with! I know I have NEVER done business with this so called "company". Protect yourself!
a verified customer
I recieved the same threats on my cell and at my job the number showed up as [protected] and another number called and threatened court action and arrest wtf i told them i was reporting them to my local law office and to BBB they stopped calling but they had all my info even my ss# its pissing me off