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Andersen Windows / Do not honor warranty!

1 United States Review updated:

During the late 1980’s and early 1990s Andersen had a factory quality problem. The vinyl sash frames cracked on some of their windows.

Last June an Andersen Window technician did warranty work at my home. Andersen provided 13 new sashes which he installed.

During a subsequent storm with wind and rain, several of the new sashes leaked water. The water comes between the sash frame and the glass. During the time of the storm, it just so happens that a local authorized Andersen dealer technician was at my house doing some installation work for me. He witnessed the water coming in (around the glass on the new sashes) and said it’s obviously a factory defect. I might add that he has been to the Andersen factory to watch their processes. He said it is evident the glue was improperly applied; gaps in the glue allowing water to infiltrate around the glass.

I have called and written to Andersen numerous times. Their response is “We do NOT warranty any of our work done under a previous warranty.” I find this to be incredible. In other words, they can use defective windows to do their warranty work, knowing the windows will fail and the consumer is stuck!!!

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  • Ol
      6th of Jan, 2010
    +2 Votes

    To Dickinson, concerning the icing over comment. Was the ice on the inside or outside? If it was on the outside it was due to the high performance glass (lowE) not allowing enough heat to penetrate through to glass to melt the exterior ice. If it was on the inside the problem would be totally different. Look in the lower corner of the glass and find the A/W logo. Look for the words HIGH PERFORMANCE. If it says HP or High Performance and you are getting ice to the inside I recommend you get a Certified heating and air person to inspect your home. Condensation only forms on the interior of the glass at certain humidity levels (depending on exterior temperatures). Moisture will form on the inside pane at about 64% relative humidity. Based on inetrior temp of 70 and exterior temp of 0 with a 15 MPH wind blowing. Ice and condensation can are formed due to conditions within the home. No I don't work for Andersen. I'm a former competitor to them but fair is fair. LowE glass is made for Andersen, Pella, Marvin by the same glass company. Weather Shield, Peachtree, Vetter use the same glass sheets but do their own in house system of sealing it together into insulated glass. Andersen has 20 year glass warranty. One of the very best in the industry. Old window man

  • Up
      12th of Apr, 2010
    +2 Votes

    My french patio doors (one is swinging and the other side is fixed) were starting to have trouble closing due to the frame of the door coming apart. I called an installer to look at it, and he told me it looked like the door was coming apart due to the large panes of glass and small support (basically just the frame around the outside, since the doors are mostly glass. He suggested I contact Andersen since they are good about standing behind their work. Sure enough, I called and asked for a service rep to come out and look at them, and the customer service person on the phone said that they were just going to replace them from the description I gave them on the phone. Pretty classy and what I would consider excellent customer support!!! You get what you pay for when it comes to service after the sale.

  • Jm
      4th of Jun, 2010
    +2 Votes

    Mr. Windasman:

    I am a home remodeling professional, have been for 46 years. We have installed lots of windows - and had more problems with Anderson and Pella windows than any other brand. - almost all of it due to faulty construction in the factory.

    Here's the latest. My customer insisted on Anderson sliding windows in a floor to ceiling, wall to wall, window wall in a sunroom. I tried my best to talk him into another brand - any other brand, except Pella - to no avail.

    There were 4 sliding windows in the array and a sliding patio door. Three of the four windows had factory problems, as did the door.

    One sliding window was manufactured without glides - they were completely missing. For those of you who are not window experts, the glides on a side-to-side sliding window are what the window sash slides on. The sash is the moving part of the window. In the past these were often nylon rollers, which had a lot of problems. Nowadays they are nylon or teflon pads. Without the glides the window will not slide, and if it does slide, metal to plastic contact mars and scratches the window sill - which is what happened in this case.

    Two of the sliding windows did not slide properly because screws in the sill were improperly installed. Anderson, for some reason known only to Anderson engineers and God, screws the plastic sill to the wood underneath the sill with pan- or truss-head screws. This is not good engineering because the screws will wear out the nylon glides much more quickly than no screws. The glides will still slide relatively smoothly over the screws as long as they are installed straight down so the pan or truss head on the screw is flat. If they are installed at an angle, however, so the pan or truss head is canted, it contacts the bottom of the window preventing it from opening and closing smoothly, and, incidentally, scratching the hell out of the bottom of the window.

    So, out of four operating (as opposed to fixed pane) windows, three were improperly manufactured and had quality problems. Which makes me ask if Anderson has any kind of factory quality control.

    The patio door had two problems. The screen was bent, probably from being strapped down with too much pressure during shipping, and a weather seal between the two doors was missing. There is supposed to be two weather seals, but only one was installed. Again a very obvious, very visible, quality problem that should have been caught at the factory.

    So, in April 5, 2010 I contacted Anderson to make a warranty claim on behalf of my customer, giving the warranty "adviser" all of the order information from the original window/door order. This was not enough. They also needed us to measure the window glass and provide the glass code for each window to "verify it was under warranty" and to "process the claim". These windows were purchased last December, but apparently Anderson does not keep purchase records. So we did all that. Then we were told that an Anderson field representative would be sent out to inspect the warranty issues, but only on payment of $140.00. And here's the other kicker - Anderson would send me the parts, but it was up to us to install them. In other words, Anderson wanted me to finish manufacturing the windows by doing the things they had failed to do at the factory.

    That was enough for me. I called my lawyer (I am a lawyer, but even lawyers have lawyers) and on his advice wrote the Anderson legal department stating my intention to sue. A few days later I got a letter from the "senior paralegal" indicating that Anderson would respond "as soon as possible". A few days later I got a call from Jason who identified as an Anderson field rep who indicated that he had been told there was a "color problem" with the windows. I straightened him out on that. Later I learned from my customer that Jason had been out to his home and looked at the problems, then gone away. He has not been heard from since.

    Anderson's warranty is a calculated fraud. First, they warrant only the parts needed to cure the defect, not the labor in most instances. So if you have a problem, getting the parts installed is at your expense. Anderson has calculated that it can be lax at quality control because (1) if the quality defect is detected, all they have to do under the warranty is provide some parts and (2) the process of making a warranty claim is so cumbersome and time consuming, most customers won't pursue claims for minor defects.

    If Anderson manufactured windows to the high quality it claims, it would cost them both materials and labor. If they slop together a window and leave out a few parts, it only costs them the parts - the contractor or customer ends up paying for the labor. Quality control, as far as I can determine, is not done in the factory, but in the field where contractors are stuck with defective windows that not only slow the project down, but take the contractor's time and money to remedy the defects. Not a problem for Anderson, though. It is, after all, not their money.

    As a contractor and lawyer I strongly object to these business practices. They work only because customers let them get away with it. Keep in mind that Anderson's written warranty is merely a statement of what they will do voluntarily without your having to file a lawsuit. But there are also other warranties implied by law. All manufacturers impliedly warrant that their products are safe, fit for the purpose for which they are intended and manufactured in a workmanlike manner. A leaking window, a window manufactured without slide or without a weather seal is not fit and not workmanlike and a court will award you the reasonable cost of fixing the problem - both parts and labor.

    So my advice is find your local Small Claims Court and SUE THE [censor].

    Small Claims Court are consumer friendly. There are very relaxed rules of evidence, so you can represent yourself (in fact you must represent yourself since lawyers are not allowed in Small Claims). Its had to make a mistake since the judge will tell you what you need to do.

    You will need a copy of your contract for the windows, or a letter from your contractor, or just your testimony, to show when the windows were purchased; some photos or videos of the defects; and an estimate from one or more contractors showing how much it will cost to fix the problem. You will be asked to give your statement as to the problem and an opportunity to show your documents to the judge. Over 90% of the time, the consumer wins these lawsuits if he or she is just a little bit prepared.

    In fact, in most cases, you will immediately get a call from Anderson offering to fix the problem, no charge to you just as soon as it learns you have filed a laswsuit. They don't like the reputation of being sued a lot over product defects.

    If you don't want to try small claims, make a complaint to the BBB. Anderson, as a BBB member, has agreed to binding arbitration through the BBB. In arbitration the rules are even more relaxed and the arbitrator is likely to be a contractor who has had bad experiences with window companies and will probably be on your side. You have to ask for arbitration, the BBB won't offer it. But if you ask, you'll get it.

    So, stop whining and go get something done. All the whining in the world does not cost Anderson a dime. But if everyone with a product defect complaint sued, Anderson would soon take notice and change the way they do business.

    Right now we have over $1, 200 in our warranty claim, mostly in labor costs. I guarantee Anderson will pay us either now or eventually.

    By the way, Anderson, if you believe any of the above is not true - constituting defamation of your business reputation - sue me. My name and contact information is set out below.

    Jim Edgar
    StarCraft Custom Builders
    [email protected]

  • Ro
      21st of Jun, 2010
    +2 Votes

    I spent $50, 000 on casement windows for my home. They all have factory applied extension jambs on them that are wrapped in vinyl. On over half of the windows the vinyl is bubbling up and seperating from the wood it is glued to underneath. The window are only 3 years old. Andersen agrees it's a warranty issue. The warranty states 3 remedies on a warranty issue. Provide parts to fix the problem, a factory authorized repair, or refund. The only way to fix my problem is to remove the windows fix and reinstall. They say in the warranty, that labor is not included. But the warranty states that you may have additional rights which vary from state to state. Luckily in my state, they are responsible to put my house back to the exact way it was before the warranty issue, commonly known as "made whole". To take these windows out, the siding on the exterior will have to be removed around each window and on the interior, the window trim. What a mess this will be. Andersen should be here any minute. I will be going for option three for my case. No way will they be ripping out 20 windows in my house. No matter what they do to put my house back to it's original condition. I strongly suggest anyone having warranty problems in their state to see what additional rights you may have. I'm glad I did. At the least they are responsible for the siding removal and installation and the trim removal installation, trim paint and any wall touch up that may be needed. But again, I'm going to go for a refund. I started a blog too which describes my problem in detail. I will keep it updated to let people know about my experience with Andersen. So far I have had no problems with them but that could change. I did a lot of research and found plenty of info that Andersen customers must have when dealing with them.

  • M1
      12th of Apr, 2011
    +1 Votes

    My house was built in 1988, 15 Andersen double hungs were installed. They are all leaking water at the seams of the vinyl wrapping, which caused the frames and sills to soak with water and rot. I too, thought I was installing a window that was a maintenance free lifetime window at a premium price. Now they all need to be replaced, estimates are around $15000. Andersen says 20 years is good life for a window. The house next door was built in 1735, stil has original windows. My daughter's house, around 1900, still original windows. Had I known Andersen windows were 20 year units (I am sure they have been leaking for many years, however it was not noticable due to the vinyl cover), I would have selected a different brand.

  • Lo
      22nd of Apr, 2010
    +1 Votes

    I have sold windows for the better part of 30 years. Andersen, Certainteed, Acorn, Capitol, Alcoa aluminum, Traco, Simonton, Pozzi - lots of different brands. The part about excerss humidity in a house, either new or recently renovated - is TRUE. I have seen water and ice on all brands in winter months. When you make your house too airtight, the moisture cannot escape. New homes have a period of time where construction materials are in fact, drying out.

    Many jobs I have been out to look at have also had new siding and insulation done around the same time. If you wear eyeglasses ( although nowadays, almost all lenses are plastic, not glass ) and they fog up when you walk into the house, this is the same problem. Warm air holds moisture - much more than cold air can. Whern warm moist air hits the cold surface of the glass lenses, the air cools and sheds the moisture. Right onto the surface of your lenses.

    Another illustration : try this in a home without air conditioning. On a warm humid summer day, fill a glass with ice cubes and set it on the table. In no time at all, water will accumulate on the side of the drinking glass.
    That is the moisture that is held in the warm air - that sheds onto cool surfaces. A special type of thermometer can be used to measure RELATIVE humidity inside a home during the winter. It uses 2 thermometers, and is called a sling sycrometer. it's the same reason a car's interior fogs up on a cold night or damp day - when you sit in it with the windows closed tightly.

    No one wants to hear they have to ventilate their homes by perhaps opening windows a tiny bit on either both ends of their homes. But it's healthier for you. it costs a bit of heat, but keeps your home in a healthy balance. Look at it this way - warm steam goes into the air when you shower - wash dishes, cook - it touches cool surfaces and condensates. ( steam on a mirror ?? Yup ! )Day after day, especially in the north where winters are long - this is the solution. People who live up north have a tendency to close off attic and soffitvents too - big mistake.

    Yes, all these newer windows have insulated glass - but insulated or not, the inside surface of a window IS still the coolest surface in a room. Old leaky aluminum windows, poorly caulked wood windows are drafty - drafty enough to allow enough air in to "balance" the humidity of the air in the room, especially right there at the window.

    It's not what people want to hear - but it is absolutely, scientifically TRUE.

  • Wi
      28th of May, 2010
    +1 Votes

    I have been an Andersen-trained service tech(work on basically every brand you can think of, but including Andersen) since 2001, and am amazed at some of the horror stories I've read online. In almost every instance, I'm betting that having a qualified and well-informed service technician on your side is the key. In dealing with Andersen, I've never had an issue of them denying valid warranty claims when I give all the information.

    To the one that had holes in your sills, did you think that maybe someone on the jobsite hit the window with a hammer? Why do you assume that it was a hailstorm, just because that's what your builder said? Obviously he doesn't want to be held responsible, but why should Andersen pony up when you don't even know how it happened? Thinking it was a hailstorm does not a warranty issue make.

    To the original complainant-how old were the ORIGINAL windows in the house when these units had the leaking problem? For example, were the original windows put in in 1990, and then replaced before 2000? The only thing I can think of in that case that would cause them to not be covered is if the original windows would be over 10 years old if they were still in the openings. As far as AW having this widespread vinyl cracking problem, I've not heard that. If that is so, it should only be covered for 10 years. A common misconception is that there is a 20 year warranty on the whole window; it is only a 20 year warranty on the glass-the parts other than the glass only have a 10 year warranty.

    To those of you complaining of condensation/ice on your windows, do you have High Performance glass, or just double-pane? HUGE difference. To the one claiming to have only 5% humidity in your house-I don't believe you for a second. You must not be taking any showers, cooking, breathing, nothing. All of that puts humidity into the air. You would also have continuous nosebleeds and chronic dry skin. Even 25% humidity will be uncomfortable for most people. Who checked it for you?
    And contrary to popular beliefs, condensation does not necessarily mean a leaky window-it can mean just the opposite. Think about it, air movement prevents moisture collecting on a surface, it does not promote it. One customer we had was complaining that one window in a twin unit had condensation while the other was dry. He claimed it was proof that the window with condensation was leaking air. Our rep walked up to the dry window, locked it, and immediately it fogged up. The end result with that customer, he had only double-pane glass-and his humidity levels were very high.

    To the one with a Home Depot-installed door; the description of the door pulling open with two pulls from the outside sounds like a case of an improperly-adjusted lock(if you have a 200 or 400 series door). When you turn the thumb-lock, it should have a good amount of resistance and "snap" slightly as it locks the door securely into the side jamb. The entire sealing of the door depends on that lock pulling it tight, as that means all the weatherstrip is contacting as it should.

    To the one with an anti-AndersEn blog, you can't even spell the name right in the web address? It may surprise you to know that MOST top-line window companies do NOT have what is called "brilliant" white, like the bright white a vinyl window will have. This is because architects and most customers do not like to have such a "refridgerator" whiteness on their house, it looks rather wierd in bright sunlight and has a cheap feel to it. Same goes with steel roofing and siding, vinyl siding, and many other building products. As well as everyday products all around you-something may appear white until you put it next to a truly white item. Andersen has 11 colors available, hopefully you can find a good resolution?

    If you disagree with anything I've posted, please engage-I hate to hear that someone is dissatisfied with something they bought, and if I can help you fix the issue, that would be great.

  • Da
      20th of Sep, 2018
    0 Votes

    @windasman Our 400 series double hung Anderson windows were rotting 4 to 6 years after we had built our new house, Anderson replaced about 24 of the sashes, but 4 years later most of the sashes that they had replaced were rotting. The problem is ongoing with Anderson, when they put the glass into the frame they put to much sealant caulk in & it plugs the weep channel on the window & the water sits in there & rots the wood frame. We finally gave up on the Anderson windows, got tired of having to call the rep every 4 years. Yes windasman I'm not a green horn with this, I've been in the construction trade for 35 years & have done my fair share of windows. Anderson double hung windows are some of the worst on the market right now, Just because they do a lot of mass marketing doesn't mean that they have a good window. Do your home work there are better windows on the market then Anderson.

  • Em
      31st of Mar, 2011
    +1 Votes

    To all the ignorant people out there...educate yourself about your warranties and reputable contractors in your area so when it comes to diagnosing problems with your windows and doors it can be done correctly. Just because someone is a contractor or inspector doesn't mean they know what they are doing when it come to diagnosing problems.On another note I find it really funny that Jim Edgar, after being in the business for 46 years, doesn't even have a good enough relationship with his dealers or Andersen reps in the area to help him out. Is it your hard to deal with?

  • Yo
      24th of May, 2012
    +1 Votes

    We built our house 30 years ago and used all Anderson windows. The vinyl on the outside of the windows is cracking and peeling, basically disintegrating. When we chose Anderson, we believed these windows would last the life of our home. We are very disappointed and don't know what to do, since there is no warranty.

  • Ch
      23rd of Jun, 2012
    +1 Votes

    Brand new house. 1 year old. Many wooden double hung. All are loose and leaking wind and dirt. So far Anderson is totally stonewalling me. These windows suck and they don't want to help.

  • Sv
      26th of Aug, 2012
    +1 Votes

    i know one of the service techs and i hear a lot of issues dealing with warranty work with this company, They charge such high rates for labor that basically the customer cannot afford it.
    They have many issues, this company. They may be a large company, but they have let go of
    standing behind their products and trying to put the customer first. Remember them, the customer.? These companys become to big and loose something along the way. wake up,
    you can loose it all tomorrow. .

  • Ha
      21st of Oct, 2013
    +1 Votes

    Over a period of about 4 or 5 years, I installed 9 Andersen casements, 3 double-hung and a Frenchwood sliding glass door in my house. I found the installations were quite simple (in new construction) and Andersen's instructions were clear and complete. The reason I chose Andersen casements was that my Dad had one installed in his house in 1962 and there was never a problem with it. I read some of these complaints and I can't understand the complaints about them honoring their warranty. I did have a problem with one of the vinyl sashes cracking and allowing water to enter the sash about 5 years after installation. I called Andersen's 800 number expecting they would send someone to inspect the damage to determine if it was indeed a manufacturing defect. Instead they just sent me a sash (I told them I would install it - it's not brain surgery!) no charge. A couple other windows, about 17 - 18 years after installation developed an oval shaped fogging on the inside of (not between) the window. Again, I called the 800 number and again they sent two sashes no charge and no questions asked. I installed the Frenchwood door myself in 1993 (purchased from Home Depot) and have never had a problem with it.

    Yes, there is a tiny amount of condensation around the edges of the windows. I did ask them about this when I called about the oval shaped condensation and they explained that (as someone else pointed out) my house was damp. And they were right about that, too. I can live with that as I'd rather have a tiny amount of condensation than dried out sinuses.

    Here's a pic of the bay window I built where there used to be a flat wall. Since the bay was structural, I decided to use three casements instead of a "bay" window which Andersen says are not meant to be weight bearing. I installed this about 13 years ago and it has been problem free so far.

    Most of these complaints sound to me like the results of improper installation. I'm not a contractor nor do I work for Andersen, I just thought that after the great treatment I have received from them over the years, they deserved some praise

  • Le
      18th of Mar, 2008
    0 Votes

    ANDERSEN DOES NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY. Buyer beware! When ours were originally installed several would not operate and several leaked. Andersen even sent a rep out to verify that it was a warranty / installation problem. While the rep agreed it was covered, they could not or would not provide a local installer to correct the problem. Every few years, when the weather is especially wet, the leaking returns. Now when I call Andersen they say it is out of warranty, despite the fact that they have documentation showing that this problem occurred and was repeatedly reported during the warranty period. The stuck windows were never repaired and several have fogged. All calls to Andersen get you now where. I reccomend you avoid this brand.

  • Cl
      3rd of Feb, 2009
    0 Votes

    My law firm is investigating consumer complaints about Andersen Windows that leak, decay, mold and/or have fungus growth. If you have any of these problems, please contact me. We are preparing a class action lawsuit to recover damages for consumers for repair/replacement costs. Please respond to: Clayton Halunen, HALUNEN & ASSOCIATES, (612) 605-4098 or email at: [email protected] Thank you.

  • Si
      7th of Jul, 2009
    0 Votes

    My builder installed Andersen windows in a total renovation. The windows still have the plastic and the big Andersen logo on them. Two of the sills have large holes (big enough to stick your thumb in) The builder claims it was caused by a hail storm but nothing else was damaged including several cloth tarps on the property. Andersen refuses to replace the windows that are not even trimmed yet. I have talked with several customer service representatives. The "Owner to Owner Warranty" has no value. They will send replacement frames to me if I want to pay over five hundred dollars. If I could rip all 36 new Andersen windows out of my house I would. I paid a premium price for what I thought would be a premium window. When I asked why the exterior of the windows was not designed to hold up in weather events I was told it was considered an act of God that they were not responsible for. No shingles damaged, no damage to cloth tarp over a boat, no damage to any trees, no damage to anything except two Andersen windows...but there is nothing wrong with the windows that extra money won't fix. Even though I swore buy Andersen products in the past I will never install another Andersen product in a home I own and I will try to warn others before they waste their money.

  • Do
      21st of Oct, 2009
    0 Votes

    The one who is GETREAL -you must work for Anderson. You talk about a product that was 20years old and we should'nt expect some service, that you should take in stride when people complain, they must be uniformed ###s. We installed Anderson Windows in our home in 1991. We did the research to find the best windows. Anderson was supposed to be the best. They have leaked, molded, iced over and the wood in mulching as it was put in another comment. We talked to the contractor that installed them, the lumber yard that sold them to us, and the Anderson Rep several times. Not once did Anderson offer to help us. All they told was our house is too air tight. If it is so air tight why do we have cold air coming through the seals? I for one will never purchase Anderson again, let alone reccommend them to anyone I know. I think you are the one who is unrealistic. Back then we did not have the vehicle like the internet to ask for help from others in the same position. Our problem has been there since we installed the windows and Anderson has not stepped up. They may be the largest window company but they don't stand behind their products. I also think you must not have had an issue like this in your life. It is frustrating, costly and you don't know where to turn for help. To call people ###s for trying to work an issue, makes people who drop comments like yours the ###s.

  • Ir
      4th of Dec, 2009
    0 Votes

    Got an Andersen Gliding glass doorwall (replacement) installed by Home Depot. It was a nightmare.It was an ongoing saga that took 3 months. And one of my sons ended up finishing up the job. The doorwall leaks a lot of air. The Locking handle I purchased can be opened from the outside with 2 tugs on the handle. One tug doesn't work, it has to be 2. And the highlight of the whole experience is that one of the panels doesn't have the Andersen glass logo. I found this out when I tried to get some weatherstripping from Andersen service.

  • Wo
      31st of Oct, 2010
    0 Votes

    I am trying to get rid of the anderson windows I installed years ago...I see where all warrentys are OFF..That's a shame...Shame on the company. We were assured years ago that they were guarenteed for the life of the home...NOT SO...I will never go near another anderson widow from now on.

    Tom Woods

    [email protected]

  • Fr
      18th of Oct, 2015
    0 Votes

    I see most of the complaints are vinyl . Which is the cheapest way to go. Get what you pay for I guess. I would suggest buying a window with the aluminum clad instead of the vinyl. I'm really surprised they even make a vinyl clad . Considering what heat does to vinyl. So I'm going to buy Andersen windows with a aluminum clad and see how they hold up . Because all the tests by companies ran on windows and Andersen and Pella still come out on top every time . Im looking through a window right now that you can barely see through do to the moisture inside the window. Its only 5 years old . It's not a Anderson or Pella . Uv rays does a lot of damage to plastics, so if you are buying a window make sure you don't buy vinyl and do the up keep on them if you want them to look nice and last a long time .

  • Ge
      29th of Apr, 2009
    -1 Votes

    Hmmm... a 20 year old window had issues, I wonder what company on God's green earth would have even given you the time of day much less performed a warranty claim for you on 13 windows! Give somebody a computer and...oh boy. Please take in stride the complaints you read on any forum. People go out of their way to complain just for the sake of complaining. Andersen is the largest window company in America and has a reputation for taking care of customers and even going beyond what the warranty time-frame is just to make people happy. I'm sure you can find an unhappy Lexus owner as well if you look long and hard enough. There are reputable companies that rate products and customer satisfaction and you can count on the information they put out. When it comes to individuals you could be dealing with a total idiot, we have no way of knowing. Every compay who does any volume of business will have complaints. Find the product that you like, a company that's been around a while and has a good reputation and normally you will do just fine. Input from ###s disguised as fact isn't good for anybody. Let's all continue to use our brains, research what we are considering buying and be resonable about what we expect out of a product that hangs on the side of our homes getting beat on by extreeme conditions. We can all learn a lot from peoples feedback, but can't fix stupid.

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