Champion Windowstruth about champion and the bbb

M
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Review updated:

I made the mistake of working for this ripoff company for a short period of time. I left Champion and hit the afterburners in moving onto something else other then trying to sucker each customer into doing something that is not in there best interest.

If your thinking about going to work for Champion or purchasing any of its products you should check yourself and don't waist your time and just look further at other offering instead of making that big mistake that you will most certainly regret. A lesion learned on my part but I was one of the lucky ones by getting out on my own terms. I found out that the local organization was just a revolving door.

I seen numerous customers that entered into sales contracts with the Champion organization and for one reason or another they wanted out after signing contract with Champion. Champion will just hold its customers hands to any and all contracts even though there was not any product ordered for that customer order or that job. Within my State they have laws that protects a customer for up to 72 hours after a purchase that was made within the home but not within purchases made within the Champion showroom. The sale people was required to write on the contracts that its was agrees and understood that a showroom purchase was not solicited within the customers home and the sales was not covered by the 72 hour writer recession. If the customer signed that contract they was locked into it terms as soon as the showroom doors hit them in the their backside. The customers could not back out of a showroom purchase and if any customers pushed any issues I seen Champion outright threaten its customer to how Champion would stop trying to work with them at all. If the customer protested or prosed any other actions on Champion they would lose there down payments and they would have to hire an attorney and go though a long and drawed out process to settle with Champion. Almost always a customer would be required to agree to giving Champion a satisfactory rating with the BBB if they did come to any agreement to settle any issues with them.

If a purchases were made on a weekend I knew that Champion could of canceled the contract as the manufacturer didn't even have the order yet as only the sale people worked the weekend. Even if an ordered was entered into the Champion computers they could of just called and backed up on any orders within a certain time line. Champion will never back up on any sale as its all for the sake of a sale or profits even if they have to lie, cheat, and steal from its customers. It also doesn't mind pitting its sales people and its customers between each other.

Within the Champion sales training manuals it state that the more money that a salesman can get as a down payment the less likely for a customer would want to back out of its contracts. It teaches its salesman to get a higher down payment of 50% or more to protect Champion so they could used its as leverage on the customers who might choose to back out of contracts. Of course if the customer made a purchase within there home and was protected by the 72 hours right of recession and Champion had no alternative but to just give the money back but Champion would take its sweet time in returning that customers money. This happen more often then what you would think mainly due to the customer finding out that they really had over paid way to much for the Champion products and its services.

Champion business selling model is based on trying to get its customers really emotionally involved within the sales presentation and then signing the Champion sales contracts for higher profit morgins on the spot. The Champion salesman's commissions pay program is geared so that the salesmen would want to get a 50% down payments because if they don't it does effect how and when the salesman is paid for his sale or project. With the larger down payments the sales person receives most of his commissions up front when with the lower down payments a salesman has to wait for his commissions until the project is finished.

After seeing numerous customers confutation's within the Champion showroom I often wondered why there wasn't multiple issues that came up with the local BBB. How does Champion get away with treating its customers in that manner and just challenging them. Champion has always brags about its BBB status but after working at Champion I know why now. Even most local awards are given to this organization solely due to its advertisement dollars and that is what it all comes down to. It is the ole mighty dollar at work. It is just a self serving wheel going full circle for all involved. You would be surprised on what go on behind the Champion veil.

The BBB accredited program really should to be investigated as its just a shell game by the BBB and they are just [censored] themself out to the organizations that pay them under the accreditation program. I have seen some other competitors that had a F rating with the BBB and all the sudden they ended up getting a A+ rating under the BBB accreditation program? The BBB would like the consumer's to think that the accredited program is a plus when they are really on the take.

Its just A BIG RIPOFF for all consumers that get involved so its just best to move on to another company that doesn't have to play these games with its customer or its employees. One of these days Champion corporate might weak up and see that its time to make changes to its business model but it might be way to late as people do not like being ripoff by Champion and the BBB. Thank you,

Responses

  • Ca
    call it like I see it Nov 14, 2009
    This comment was posted by
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    I have read the above complaint and can't believe that some one can get away with putting out such lies and nonsence.I have first hard knowledge of this company and it's sales people.The person that made these statements is " likely" to be a person that was recently FIRED. I say likely because with no name or photo I can't be sure of who it was.
    That being said, if it is who "I" think it is, this guy is best descibed (in my opinion) as a ###.This guy worked at another area window company and was fired (described to me as a criminal), tried to work for this company and another at the same time (probably to get info on the competition), and ran there own window company for a while (if I understand correctly from the first company he worked for, has some tax problems).
    The statements made above ARE FALSE ! If you are thinking about purchasing any of the products that Champion offers, go in and talk to them.Make up you own mind and see how they treat you.
    The statements made in this comment are that of one person and not the opinion of any one else.If the person that made the above complaint wants to say anything in responce-BRING IT - I would love to see you prove the things you say are true!!!

    -4 Votes
  • Ma
    maskpeanut Mar 17, 2010
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    Oh BRING IT ON ole ### breath... I'm back and so put um up little guy. You have first hand knowledge of this company? What a load that is! Your another employee that is posting on a complaint board trying to discredit any negative postings of Champion. Go figure.

    Nope you have me confused with another valued employee that must of seen the writing on the walls and now your throwing him under the bus. I wasn't fired by Champion at all and I left them after seeing way to much of what goes on under the Champion vial. Yeah anyone would be surprised at it... I went onto a professional sales organization and I'm thankful for that now. Champion is now just a skid-mark on my resume now like numerous other before me. Come on you guys blew though some thirty sale people in three years in one branch? There a big sign that it isn't a great place to work... I have no criminal record at all and I believe you guys are supposed to run the background check and drug screen test on all employees. Isn't that what you tell your customers you guys do??? What happen to the poor guy your spewing about and how did he fall the the cracks??? Now that funny admitting you guy hire some real shady people... The above BBB posting above is what I seen at while at Champion and I have to believe that to be true. SEE OTHER POSTING AS WELL I'm the the only one who fills that way. I have witnessed numerous sparing matches that went on while at Champion with its customers after there purchase. Champion has to be play nice until they got the sales prospect under contract then they played hardball 100% all the time so BUYER BEWARE. They will force a customers hand. It was kind of a bully attitude that rolls down form the top at Champion. Champion is proud of there record with the BBB and they pay dearly annually for that accredited status. If you ask me that is just all self serving.

    1 Votes
  • No
    Nochampionuser May 08, 2017
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    @maskpeanut I had Champion out to give me a quote on replacing my windows Saturday May 6, 07. I'm not your average homeowner so I do know something about building. He showed up right on time, but took 15 minutes to get out of his truck. After first quoting me $1000 a window I told him that I didn't want to waste any more of his or my time ! The price then dropped to $600 a window. Again I told him that I don't want to waste his or my time. These people pray on people that don't have a clue about construction, or window replacement. Do yourself a favor and find a honest contractor, and there are some out there and stay away from these crooks.

    3 Votes
  • No
    Nochampionuser May 08, 2017
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    @Nochampionuser I actually had them out this past Saturday May 6, 2017.

    -1 Votes
  • Mu
    mudjeeper Aug 20, 2010
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    I agree with you peanut, I've installed windows for over 25 years contracting and sub contracting for different home improvement companies.I subbed for champion for about 3 months and was amazed how they treat their customers and installers.I was sent to many window install jobs with windows that were not measured or ordered the correct size.As an installer your expected to make them fit or you make no money.My crew would actually cheer if we actually had the rare occasion and had a window measured right.Mostly the windows were always way too small, i'm talking 1 inch on all sides, and we were instructed to tell the homeowner that was so we could square the window then we were to install a vinyl strip 1 1/2" wide around the inside with silicone.Screws supplied would only sink into the wood about an inch.Once we had a window that was 4" too tall and we were instructed to make it fit so we had to cut out and rebuild the whole opening and was paid 10 dollars extra for the work..lol.My last day was when they gave me a used storm door to install (they pulled it from their dumpster)with hardware they had to piece together..i installed it...collected the 400 check...turned it in...never went back...
    Why would anyone pay 700 to 800 for a cheap vinyl window when you can get a top of the line vinyl replacement window with all the perks for around 250.If you pay over 400 for window and installation your getting ripped off!

    5 Votes
  • St
    stryker6040 Oct 03, 2010

    I am really disappointed in Champions sale process. While their product is actually quite nice in my opinion it is horribly over priced. Windows with a MSRP of [protected] a window no wonder they can run a year round sale of 30% off. What gets me is we bought a family members house which already had a champion sun room, So when we called to get estimates on replacing windows he walks in and says Im gonna make your day since this houses has had our products before I am gonna give you 50% off the MSRP for being a previous customer.

    We let him do his sales pitch and then tell him we are going to think about it and get other quotes. I havent seen anyone pack up so fast and get out the door it almost made me laugh. On top of that he didnt leave us with any quotes in writing at all. Everything priced was on a piece of paper that he took with him. Long story short 2 days later we get the coupons that come in the mail every few weeks and there is a coupon in there for 50% off all Champion replacement vinyl windows. What a joke

    2 Votes
  • Sa
    sales pro Jan 27, 2011

    ShawdowWind71 is other corporate robot insider that only sees what he is told to see. If anyone within that organization questions them to much they wouldn't be working there very long and some just see things for what they really are and just choose to move on the bigger and better things as I have done.

    Champion Window always wants to throw out that they are a member of the BBB in good standings but more people should know of the business relationship between these two organization and how it benefit's each of them. This is coming from a person that used to have full faith in the BBB until I worked for these Ripp Offs at Champion Windows Company of Cini, OH before leaving them on my own free will.

    Champion Windows make big huge profit margins on there products and service offerings so they can afford to throw around some money back at the BBB because it is in there favor to do just that. It a real cozy relationship between these to partners. I personally witness this numerous times Champion was clearly in the wrong but the BBB protects there best interest as well.

    When most folks think Better Business Bureau; consumer protection, ethics and integrity come to mind. Right? WELL YOU SHOULD LOOK FURTHER INTO THIS ORGANIZATION:

    1. Would it amaze you to find out that there are numerous legitimate complaints and even lawsuits against Better Business Bureau franchises? Yes, you read correctly. The BBB is a corporation comprised of several private business franchises like Champion Windows and McDonald's etc.

    2. Many people are under the perception that the BBB is a government agency. It is not. The truth is it operates as a non-profit and its funded primarily through membership fees paid by businesses. Yes a fee paid business with multiple fee paid tears and of course all of the Champion Windows franchise steps up the highest tear that the BBB has to offer. The fact that they make money collecting payments from businesses should automatically raise an a big red flag for everyone to see. How can they honestly look out for the consumers best interest when their customer base is businesses??? They claim neutrality but to any rational person there is an obvious conflict of interest isn't it? So you see a business with a BBB member sticker in the window, a plaque on the wall, Golden Torch awards or a banner on their website and you think they must be creditable. Or is just a badge for those who throws the most money at the BBB. You scratch our back and we will scratch yours kind of deal.

    What should also be swirling in your mind is the fact that in order to become a member of the BBB the business has to pay an annual membership fee. How many renewals would the BBB get if the members were graded badly? In some cases its no small potato's to what the BBB annual fees may be.

    3. The truth is members of the Better Business Bureau have much higher grades than non-members. It seems like an A+ grade is only possible for dues-paying customers (members).

    4. The fact of the matter is everything that the trusted BBB warns us about when it comes to unscrupulous business practices, they are considered by some as the biggest offenders. I've seen people go from an F rating up to an A plus with just a couple of months and ll it took some some money and a little of time.

    5. The list of growing complaints around the country accuse local Better Business Bureaus of:
    Unfair and Disingenuous Business Practices.
    Underhanded or Misleading Advertising.
    Discrimination Against Certain Businesses Based On Their Industry.
    Use of Non-Profit For Personal Gains.
    Many of us look to the Better Business Bureau to establish the legitimacy of a business or to report a business, but where do we go if we have a problem with the better business bureau? Who watches them? Its like the Fox is guarding the Hen House and believe me that Champion knows this all to well.

    The savvy consumer and self-respecting business owner does due diligence on the Better Business Bureau just as they would before dealing with any other company. It just makes sense.

    How could this be beneficial to the consumer?
    The BBB must realize what a consumer must have gone through before resorting to filing a complaint! And for every consumer that did file a Complaint, there are 20 others that did not complain. And you can be next if you deal with them.

    When consumers see that Better Business Bureau plaque, this gives the consumer a false sense of security. Consumers need to be made aware of this rip-off & misconception nationwide and our government should do something about this.
    All that BBB plaque means is, they paid their dues. (Period)

    The BBB decision means nothing in a court of law. The BBB does provide a mediation service, but the BBB cannot force the business to do anything for you to resolve your consumer rip-off. They can only make suggestions. And if the business does not comply, this will not insure an unsatisfactory rating for the business that ripped you off. Not too good for the consumer who has been victimized and not to good for future consumers who will call the BBB to see if the business has a good rating before they do business..
    Even when many complaints are satisfied by a business, they can still get a satisfactory rating. Many times, all a business needs to do to satisfy the victim's complaint is just simply answer the BBB alleged complaints and the process will drag painfully along as most will just grow tired and drop out of the red tape trip.

    Consumers put too much faith and respect into the BBB. The BBB is in the business of collecting fees from the very businesses they monitor. You know a business is really BAD if it has an unsatisfactory rating with the BBB.

    I have said it before and I will say it again it just takes a little money and anyone can get a A+ rating at the BBB. It just a "good ole boy network" and Champion works it for there own benefit.

    To some the BBB is just a scam and a joke. Wake up America!

    If anyone has any problems with Champion you should never go to the BBB as it is just a big waist of your time and energy. You should just seek out and Attorney and file a law suit. i can tell you fi your successful Champion will always insist that a lawsuit settlement results are to be keep privets at all cost. They are professionals at this type of game and you would be surprised what does go on behind the vail at Champion. All consumers should beware of Champion as well as the BBB as it is not in your best interist.

    Thank you,
    Maskpeanut

    4 Votes
  • Br
    Brent Perkins Feb 14, 2011

    It is interesting to see the things that show up on the internet. I have worked for Champion Window in Boise, Idaho for nearly three years and have been proud to work for them. The fact is that Champion sells a very high quality window, with exceptional performance, a fantastic warranty, exceptional installers, and the highest commitment to customer satisfaction. I have compared what Champion does to the other guys, and I can provide dozens of reasons why Champion is the best company to buy your windows from. The fact is that we are half the price of some companies and twice the price of others. We have no need to apologize for what we charge for windows. As we all know you get what you pay for. If you want a window that is a disposable product, you can get it for a cheap price. This is a competitive industry. I find it hard to believe that any company could earn such a high percentage of the replacement window market, and an enviable customer satisfaction level, if they are overpriced and unethical as these posters have claimed that Champion is.

    The fact is that Champion puts a lot of effort into training their factory representatives so that they can educate their customers on what is important in making an informed decision in buying windows. We use a method of installation that doesn't require that we cut up your siding and expose your home to the risk of water damage. In fact I had a retired contractor who purchased windows from me last year. He told me that he had never seen finer craftsmen than our installers in all the years he was in construction. I have seen Champion jump through hoops to insure customer satisfaction. It is really gratifying to me as a Champion employee to read the customer comment cards that we receive. The vast majority of customers that return this survey rate their experience as extremely satisfied in every aspect of their experience. In fact all of the people that I work with take their role in the customers satisfaction very personally. Now I do not know about every Champion office there are 81, but I do know that Champion corporate spends a lot of time, money and energy fostering this same attitude among all of our offices. While there are many fine companies in this business how many of them can say that they are factory direct. Champion controls everything from the the sales presentation through installation and service after the sale. No chasing down an installer or waiting for the manufacturers rep to come into town. We have our own service people, one call and we will take care of any concern. How many companies in the building industry can say that they had a near record year for sales in 2010. Most companies in this business are franchises. A franchise is owned by the guy down the street which is nice, except that they are unfortunately going out of business in record numbers. What happens to your warranty when they retire or go out of business. Champion is a well funded and very successful company that has been in business since 1953. We have the diversification of stores in 81 cities to add to our stability. As I have said, I cannot vouch for every store, and no one can be 100 percent perfect, but I love working for a company that trys every day to achieve that goal.

    As far as the BBB is concerned whatever their limitations are it is hardly the responsibility of Champion.

    Don't just take my word for what Champion is like. We have thousands of Champion signs in front of customers homes every spring and fall. Look for one in your neighborhood and stop by and ask what their experience has been. Sincerely, Brent Perkins

    -4 Votes
  • Ma
    maskpeanut May 27, 2011
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    Verified customer

    Brent your posting here within this web site with some really good blinders on. I believe Champion services side to be within the industry standards most of the time Champion uses sub-contractors for there installation which does allow room for problems as the sub contractor is paid per product installation and may not be given the time to install the product properly. It all about the Champion "Sales: tactics and products and you would have to be a man of little morals to make a stand up for Champion on that part. Lets talk about a couple of them. Its it not true that Champion shears profits when a salesman is successfully in selling for higher profit margins which they call selling over PAR? That means you get to split the profits of what is sold over par if they are able to screw the customers. I know of several shady Champion sales people that will pad the projects to help drive up the project higher profit margins so they can split the profits with Champion? Selling over Par and they are rewarded for doing that by Champion. Is this really something that go one within a will respected company? Believe me they do know what is going on and the look the other way and even get to share within the profits of the Ill gotten gains. I don't know of to many national window company that sale there vinyl windows for over $1000 per window average. Most window companies make there profit off of pure product volume and sale a comparable window product for $350.00 $450.00 per window and Champion. Champion just prays upon the non educated window buyers and then hammers then them with a there buy it now sales tactics. Brain you need to weak up and smell the coffee and allow yourself to see writing on the walls within Champion. If you like to ripping off customers by trying to sell yourself to a unethical sales organization then please do so but some of us choose just choose not to buy into that brand of crap.

    0 Votes
  • Ma
    maskpeanut May 27, 2011
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    Who builds Champions Siding products?
    It's not Champion... The correct answer is Crane Siding...

    Who builds Champions Confort 365 window flat glass?
    It's not Champion... The correct answer is Cardinal Glass Company E366 glass.

    It may be a shocker that Champion trys to represent themselfs as being a superior manfacturer with there are selling the same products name brand products you can purchase off though distribution
    You must beaware of doing any business with Champion as they are full of these mis-leading sales tactics.

    0 Votes
  • Me
    mexanese Aug 21, 2011

    Mask,
    This is crazy. I just left a Champion office today to inquire about replacing the windows in a home I just bought in Louisville, KY. I saw the heat lamp and UV test thing they do and seemed impressed. I'm scheduled for a site visit and estimate next Saturday, but now I am worried. A couple of questions.

    1. So is Champion's 360 glass not exclusive to them only and if it isn't, what other manufactures have the same technology?
    2. What manufactures or companies would you recommend in my area?

    0 Votes
  • Ma
    maskpeanut Aug 21, 2011
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    Cardnail Glass Company LoE366 glass it what it is. See my other posting for more of a detailed responce. We look forward to you posting about your in home sales presentation and how that goes with them. Thanks MASK

    0 Votes
  • Rr
    rrigutto Apr 24, 2013

    As a working member in the home improvement business, not with Champion by the way, I can clearly see why the person commenting earlier is no longer employed by Champion. He would not last a week in most home improvement companies. 1st and foremost his grammar is horrible which is a reflection of how he presented himself in a home. The bottom line is he couldn't perform. Now I am not here to comment on Champion's business model or business ethics since I'm not employed by them but in fact to demonstrate that there is money to be made honestly in home improvements. Now as far as the gentleman who comments on getting a $250.00 window with much of the same "perks" as a $1500.00 window you're sadly mistaken. All you have to do is look at and compare the NFRC labels. All in all its a good business that gets a poor rap. All sales and purchases are "emotional " buys. This includes any purchase from automobiles to zippers.
    One last comment to the gentleman saying $250 windows are adequate: 70% of my sales are replacing $250 windows that were just installed less than 5 years ago. That my friend is like throwing money out the proverbial window!

    1 Votes
  • Am
    american #1 Jun 20, 2013
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    Verified customer

    I agree with maskpeanut 100 percent I just went thru the bbb process with champion windows a big waste of time after months of complaints about a roof that was damaged bbb close the complaint and said champion did everything possible to resolve the issue even though nobody came to take a look at the damage on my roof, I even offered to send pictures of the damage and that's when bbb closed the complaint, consumers, do beware bbb and the companies are in bed together, don, t waste your time with bbb or champion .

    0 Votes
  • Am
    american #1 Jun 20, 2013
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    my mistake I was agreeing with salepro, not maskpeanut

    1 Votes
  • Li
    Lisa Rucker May 02, 2016
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    Champion windows is the biggest mistake I've made in along time. I feel if you DO NOT have the sales person tell you the truth and customer service is not there for you... doesn't matter how the windows are.

    1 Votes
  • Li
    Lisa Rucker May 02, 2016
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    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    PLEASE Do Not Buy CHAMPION Anything !!!

    1 Votes
  • Ga
    Gal1964 Jun 06, 2017
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    a verified customer
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    Bought Champion windows during the recession in '09. Price wasn't bad, windows and install were great. Just got a quote recently to do the rest of my windows. I felt like I had a used car salesman in the house. starts out with an outrageous $3K per window quote, written in pencil on the back of a piece of paper. then starts taking off various percentages To more or less half the price and of course needs an answer right now or it will cost more later. My mistake I agreed and gave 30% down, but luckily on CC. Now the waiting game to see if they really honor their, and the laws, 3 day right to rescind. did everything their contract said and had bill delivered with signature confirmation the next business day. Won't even get in to their even more ridiculous $10+ sg. ft vinyl siding quote after knocking it down from nearly $20. Of which I definitely did not agree or put money down on.

    1 Votes
  • Ch
    Chattikate54 Oct 25, 2017

    Champion doesn’t hire competent people to install

    Comments

    0 Votes
  • Ho
    Homeowner5726 Nov 18, 2017

    Gosh! Makes me just want to hurry and build a new home from scratch instead of replacimg. Dont see many Champion Window signs in my neighborhood. Always others. We have Hullco here and they appear to be top notch, ansoluNO pressure, but very costly for someone who is planning to build, such as us and just need to update. To many decisions and not enough honest companies. I think I will stay clear of Champion. Thanks.

    0 Votes
  • Bi
    BillyB2020 Apr 22, 2020

    I realize this is an old complaint, but wanted to add my 2 cents to this thread. I have been in the home improvement business for 30 years. I have worked in sales for several window and door companies, as well as eventually going on and starting my own window and door company myself growing it into a very profitable business for over 10 yrs.

    During the process, I myself worked as a sales rep for Champion Window Co of Knoxville, TN. The truth to all of this is out of all these posts that knock maskpeanut, is that @maskpeanut is indeed telling the complete 100% truth about the operational practices and training program for Champion Window Co. @call it like I see it obviously made his post as a current (at the time) employee of Champion Window so of course he is going to back the company that is paying his paycheck, but I bet at this day and time he probably wouldnt deny or discredit @maskpeanut, because any sales rep who has EVER been employed by CWCo knows the training process and expectations of their sales reps.

    Out of the many window and door companies I have worked for over the past 30 years, there are a total of 2 that I would describe as complete ripoff corporations who prey on the inexperienced and probably even more on the elderly. Those 2 companies are Champion Window Co, and Four Seasons Sunrooms, which is an IDENTICAL sunroom company who pushed extremely overpriced windows. Both companies are based on the same business model as well as the same sales training practices. They train their sales reps to make the emotional sale, and push hard sales tactics on any prospective customer. First off, 12 months, 365 days a year, they run some sort of 33% discount, or but 2 get 1 free. Their pricing is all marked up by the sales rep to begin with. They show up and measure your windows or sunroom area, and then set you down for their presentation. This is typical with any sales call. However, they are trained to start their quotes as high as they possibly can, to try to get a bite. That can be any price the sales rep chooses to start at. @maskpeanut is correct on his use of the term selling over "par". This is what the highest commission is paid off of. If you dont bite, they have about 15 different tactics to discount the product down to whatever it will take for the homeowner to commit to signing an agreement and make a downpayment. This may be offering a lifetime deal warranty, or glass break warranty, or even placing a sign in your yard for 30 days. They may end up with 9 different types of discounts on their agreement. During my training, I spent time with probably the smoothest talking rep I have ever known in my life, and literally sat at a table to 2 hours doing everything under the sun to get an agreement signed before we left, and ended up leaving empty handed with him angry, treating them like a dog for wasting his time and not taking the bait. I have seen windows start @ $1800 ea (after the 33% discount) and end up offered at $600 before we left. At the time I worked for them, they sold one window product, which was a decent product sold as the high end deluxe window. This window was a vinyl window, I believe only double pane not triple, with Low-e/argon, and foam filled frame. It did have good energy efficient numbers, but I will give a comparison in a minute. I only worked for them for 1 month before I realized that I was not a type A personality that could prey on the elderly and try to do everything I could to take advantage of unknowing homeowners, just for the sake of a paycheck. When I went to work for Four Seasons a short time later, they originally seemed to be a different type of company but I quickly realized they were an exact replica so I took a couple weeks of in office training pay and left. Having been in sales for so many years, I eventually decided to get a business license, insurance, etc, researched and set up accounts with some local window, door and siding vendors and opened my business.

    Now to give a comparison to the quality and pricing of Champion as well as Four Seasons Windows. When I set up my vendors, I had access to about 5 different window manufacturers, as well as siding and doors. Most of all these window manufactures use Cardinal Glass as @maskpeanut had said in one of his later posts. The window manufacturer makes the frames and trim (they are vinyl manufacturers) and put the Cardinal glass in them. However, Champion did have their own factory that cut the glass, made the double pane glass packs and did their own argon insert. This process no matter who does it, will experience some loss of gas through the process. These manufacturers offer several tiers of windows, from single hung to double, to double pane, triple pane, low-e, argon, foam filled frame, grids in the glass, blinds in the glass, as well as lifetime seal breakage warranty and lifetime glass breakage warranty. Champion windows for the most part have these options standard other than grids and blinds, although they can be added for additional fees. So, if I purchased an identical window as a Champion Window or Four Season window, four a typical size replacement window, wholesale price would run me around $165. If I added lifetime seal and glass break warranty, would run around $175. I would resell this replacement window to a homeowner with installation for approx $450, depending on each install and frame type, trim etc. This same window @ Champion I have seen sold @ $1800 each for those who took the bait on the first bite, or discounted down to whatever it took to close the deal. To give an even better comparison, when I replaced my parents windows in their home which was built in the 60's and were all aluminum frame windows, a total of 33 windows total, my total cost was around $6, 000. If I were to have sold these installed to another homeowner, complete job installed wouldve been around $15, 000. Just for S&G, I had them set up a sales aptmt with Champion to get an estimate, although they knew the deal so didnt sit around for a long presentation, total quote was $39K installed for the same windows that cost me $6K. If I were to describe this window in terms of low, mid level, high, I would consider it mid-level.

    Regarding their installers and measurements, they let their car salesmen type sales reps take all final measurements who for the most part know very little about actual installation of windows. Yes @maskpeanut is correct (or whoever it was) that they have a white vinyl trim piece to attach and silicone to the frame for "adjustment and final fit". This completely goes against the reason for having foam filled frames and well insulated glass because it can be a large area for heat penetration or heat loss with just a thin single layer of vinyl between the inside of the house and the air outside. Heat will either escape during the winter, or pe etrate during the summer. I have been selling windows for a long time and me nor any of my sales reps have ever done any final measurements. I have my installers come out to take final measurements. All replacement windows are custom ordered, no stock sizes laying around to install, so there is no reason for them to not be an exact fit, and noone knows more about sizing and the best way to install each window than the installer himself.

    So, in my opinion, anyone interested in replacement windows, do a little research on what type/level of window would work best for your home. Get several quotes. Dont sign when they are there just to get a discount, because if they are a legit company, they are going to still give you the same discount a week later to get your business as opposed to another company. I wouldnt recommend anything less than low-e/argon, or even krypton filled. I would not recommend Champion, Four Seasons or Window World who sells $189 windows in every city across the country (it's just a bait and switch and will still cost $500 per window installed. I would ask other nearby homeowners for any local referrals. I would also recommend going down to Lowe's or Home Depot and check out some displays of Pella windows, Anderson, etc. Talk to the people at the desk about local installers in their install program. Many of them have worked for most of the window companies around but have more experience than most. If you just like to spend money and want a high-end window for a high-end price such as a $1500 mid-level Champion window that's worth only $450 the go for a fiberglass infinity window by Marvin. You should at least get your return on investment.

    Lastly, I will say that Champion's all-season room is a really nice product, but way overpriced. If they just started selling sunrooms at a better price and quit selling windows other than what goes in their sunrooms, I might think a little better of their business model and their company as a whole. Oh and their sales tactics on their sunrooms and different levels of self contained heating and a/c unit for their sunrooms, that's for an entire separate discussion, but let me just say that only their best most tenured reps get those leads, so I'm sure you can guess how that goes...

    2 Votes
  • Ma
    manystars Jun 25, 2020
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    @BillyB2020 BillyB2020 Thank you sooo very much on your post. I was going to set up an appointment with Champion to get an estimate for 34 windows that I need to replace. My windows are original windows and most need replacing. I got a quote from Window World and decided against using them after the sales rep got upset with me for asking questions. Got another one from Reece Builders who was trying to sell me a high impact window (hurricane strength) I don't live on the coast of NC. LOL Also found out the sales rep lied to me about who manufactures the window. I figured if he will lie to me about that he will lie to me about other things too just to make the sell. This is a large job and I don't want to make the biggest mistake of my life. I think because I am a widow and alone it will be hard for me to find the right company. I just need to keep trying.

    1 Votes

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