tubie

Anyone looking for a Golden Retriever, English Golden Retriever, etc:
Please use only breeders who follow the Golden Retriever Club of America's (GRCA) Code of Ethics and Breeding Guidelines. This will help to get you the healthiest puppy possible.

From the GRCA.org website. Please note that 24 months is specifically addressed as the age for final clearances for both dogs in the US and for dogs that were imported from OUTSIDE the US. It also specifies when/how often eye exams should be done and what kind of vet should be doing heart clearances:

a. Hips – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals; or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from a health registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country (e.g. Canada - Ontario Veterinary College; Great Britain - BVA/KC Hip Score) A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.

b.Eyes – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology (ACVO) or from a BVA/KC approved ophthalmologist (Great Britain), or a report from the Canine Eye Registry Foundation. For dogs outside the U.S., a report from an ophthalmologist as recommended by the Golden Retriever club of that country after 1 year of age. Examinations must be done within 12 months of a breeding.

c. Hearts – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Medicine, Cardiology Specialty or a certification by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals by a cardiologist (the number will be followed by a C) at 12 months of age or older.

d. Elbows – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from a health registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country at 24 months of age or older. A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.

Please no

Anyone looking for a Golden Retriever, English Golden Retriever, etc:
Please use only breeders who follow the Golden Retriever Club of America's (GRCA) Code of Ethics and Breeding Guidelines. This will help to get you the healthiest puppy possible.

From the GRCA.org website. Please note that 24 months is specifically addressed as the age for final clearances for both dogs in the US and for dogs that were imported from OUTSIDE the US. It also specifies when/how often eye exams should be done and what kind of vet should be doing heart clearances:

a. Hips – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals; or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from a health registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country (e.g. Canada - Ontario Veterinary College; Great Britain - BVA/KC Hip Score) A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.

b.Eyes – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology (ACVO) or from a BVA/KC approved ophthalmologist (Great Britain), or a report from the Canine Eye Registry Foundation. For dogs outside the U.S., a report from an ophthalmologist as recommended by the Golden Retriever club of that country after 1 year of age. Examinations must be done within 12 months of a breeding.

c. Hearts – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Medicine, Cardiology Specialty or a certification by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals by a cardiologist (the number will be followed by a C) at 12 months of age or older.

d. Elbows – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from a health registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country at 24 months of age or older. A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.

Uh MyTwistedSister, I was posting the guidelines set by the parent club of the Golden Retriever, the GRCA, in the hopes that people will READ them and use them to make better decisions about finding a Golden Retriever puppy. There is no ulterior motive other than to try and save people from buying from crappy/irresponsible breeders.

How does that make me disreputable?

@TwistedSister - I have only posted under my own name on this site and I very rarely post in anything other than Golden Retriever related subjects. I have NEVER used any foul language in any of my posts. My posts are always related to the subject at hand but I pull no punches. If a breeder is not doing the recommended health testing on their dogs, I will call them on it every time. If they are flat-out lying, I will bring those lies out into the light. I have absolutely NO remorse for going after irresponsible breeders.

I honestly don't care what you think about me - I will continue to post in these types of threads because I care very deeply about Golden Retrievers and it sickens me that people use them just to make a buck. It also sickens me when I see that someone has been taken advantage of because the breeders know all the right things to say but don't practice what they preach.

I really don't think that you have read many of my posts because if you had, you would have seen that we are on the same side here.

Without commenting on the whole deposit thing, Kinship Companions has a lot of red flags that anyone who took some time to research them would have seen. Biggest of all is that very few of their breeding dogs have the clearances that are recommended by the Golden Retriever Club of America - final Hip, elbow, & heart clearances (all done once in a dogs life after they reach 2 years of age), and eyes (done yearly).

Their studs:
Imapup's Hoalie Alaskan Asher - OFA heart clearance done by a Practitioner (regular vet) instead of by the recommended Cardiologist. No verifiable hip, elbow, or heart clearances.
Taul-Imapup's Add A Sunshiny New Day - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
Imapup's Pistus Elpis Agape Dieu Parmi Nous - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
Chien D'Or's Cprflds Easy Money - no verifiable clearances of any kind.

Their dams:
CPRFLD Imapup's On My Honor I Will Do My Best - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
Starr Lighting Up The Night - OFA Elbows and Cardiac (done by Cardiologist), eyes done in 2007, no verifiable Hip clearance.
Imapup's Chasing Rainbows - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
Imapup's Tish Tosh Tallulah - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
Imapup's Gnothi Seauton - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
Kalocsahazi Ugocsa (listed only as 'Dori' on the website) - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
Imapups Quintessential Puppy Girl (listed only as 'Legacy' on the website) - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
Cprfld Imapup's Happily Ever After - no verifiable clearances of any kind.

Former breeding dogs:
Strong Stael Ulkalla - no verifiable clearances of any kind.
CPRFLD Imapups Duck. Duck. Goose! - no verifiable clearances of any kind.

This kind of lack of basic health testing alone should be enough to warn people about what kind of breeder this is.

If you want a healthy Golden puppy, the breeder should at the very least have:
1) Final OFA clearances done on Hips and Elbows. These must be done after 2 years of age. Preliminary reports or x-rays are not acceptable because most Golden Retrievers are not finished growing completely until this time and the structures of the hips and elbows can and do change.
2) An OFA heart clearance or heart report done by an ACVIM (American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine) Board-Certified Cardiologist. These vets are trained to hear things that a regular vet may not hear and/or recognize.
3) An eye clearance report or a CERF (Canine Eye Registration Foundation) certification done within 12 months of the time of breeding. These should really be done yearly as some diseases show up throughout a dogs' lifetime.

Looks like Lea Winkler has another alias to add to this list: Lea(h) Winkler, rocket scientist no brainer, aka Frances Michaels, Robert Smith, Toby Kenobi, Hank Wilkenson, jackbequick, aaron beagley

Hmm...looks like you have at least 2 females and one male according to your website. What happened to poor Charli? You don't list him on your website under Our Boys any longer but he is listed as the sire of Souffle's litter that's supposedly due in September. Oh, I see that you are "Having to downsize due to personal issues & important reasons." and are selling a few of your "breeding females" - http://www.terrificpets.com/dogs_for_sale/viewad.asp?adid=128703

If you are "downsizing", why are you trying to add another male to your kennel? Why are you having another 2 litters in the next month?

Um, yeah, they do 'just give those out', I could get 'at least one ribbon' at a show if I was the only one entered in a class. Doesn't mean squat except that the judge was nice enough to not withhold the ribbon. Prove what you say, post your dogs' AKC registration numbers or names so that we can look it up for ourselves. If your dogs have AKC points, a quick look up on the AKC website will prove it.

A puppy sent home at 6 weeks has not yet fully learned bite inhibition - that is, how hard is too hard to bite. Normally, this is taught by the mother and the siblings. A breeder willing to send a puppy to a new home at 6 weeks is not only a crappy breeder but is very possibly breaking the law by shipping puppies under 8 weeks of age.

CERF - Expired - should be done yearly (Examinations must be done within 12 months of a breeding.)
Heart Clearance - was done by a practioner, ie Normal Vet. Should be done by Cardiologist (appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Medicine, Cardiology Specialty or a certification by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals by a cardiologist (the number will be followed by a C))

Now you have a litter out of Fatherland Chocolate Souffle that was born on September 5th, 2011
GR-358424/2011--34
GR-CA20426/35F/P-NOPI - was done by a practioner, ie Normal Vet. Should be done by Cardiologist (appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Medicine, Cardiology Specialty or a certification by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals by a cardiologist (the number will be followed by a C))
NO final hip clearance before breeding, NO final elbow clearance

and the litter out of Maddie is sired by Big Blue Thunder Of Willow Downs who is 17 months old
GR-CA20548/16M/P-VPI - done by a practioner, ie Normal Vet. Should be done by Cardiologist (appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Medicine, Cardiology Specialty or a certification by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals by a cardiologist (the number will be followed by a C))
NO final hip clearance before breeding, NO final elbow clearance
NO CERF

More information on the owner/breeder: Lea Winkler (aka one sick b**th Debbie Kern, testosterone, rocket scientist no brainer, and hundreds of other aliases)...
http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/az-mcso/2011-10-08/lea-maria-winkler-p809309 (or just go to jailbase.com and put in her name)
http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/2011/10/12/20111012glendale-police-mom-son-accused-cabelas-theft-abrk.html (or Google Lea Winkler Cabelas)
For a fun look at her history with the AZ courts: http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/caselookup.aspx and look up her name (best used with IE)

More information on the owner/breeder: Lea Winkler (aka one sick b**th Debbie Kern, testosterone, rocket scientist no brainer, and hundreds of other aliases)...
http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/az-mcso/2011-10-08/lea-maria-winkler-p809309 (or just go to jailbase.com and put in her name)
http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/2011/10/12/20111012glendale-police-mom-son-accused-cabelas-theft-abrk.html (or Google Lea Winkler Cabelas)
For a fun look at her history with the AZ courts: http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/caselookup.aspx and look up her name (best used with IE)

Um, it says right on their website that they will check with your vet before they will fill or refill medications. All of the reputable online pet pharmacies do this. The reason to go to places like that is because they are usually much cheaper than going through your vet, not because you are trying to avoid going to your vet at all.

Part of the PetMeds FAQ: "As a licensed pet pharmacy, we are required by law to dispense only veterinarian authorized medications (Heartgard Plus, Revolution, Sentinel, Rimadyl, etc)". Nowhere on the site does it say - "come to us if you don't want to go to your vet."

Sorry, Lea Winkler is the former owner, not the breeder of Ice Queen. Apologies to Eva Sikova...

Lea(h) Winkler, rocket scientist no brainer aka Frances Michaels, Robert Smith, Toby Kenobi, Hank Wilkenson, jackbequick, Aaron Beagley, testosterone, a persons heart stabbed to death, puppymillsneed2beshutdown and who knows what other aliases you are going by now, you might want to keep a lower profile:

Bench warrants issued for failure to appear for both Lea and her son- shocking...
Lea - http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/122011/m5026956.pdf
Brandon - http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/112011/m5000104.pdf

Well, considering that most of Legacy's dogs have no verifiable elbow clearance information, Legacy really has no way of knowing if they are throwing clear elbows or not. There are also no verifiable eye clearances in a breed that suffers from a debilitating eye disease.

Their newest stud is only 17 months old - too young for final OFA clearances, yet he's sired at least 2 litters already.

Red flags abound here...

Luvingour Golden - I'm fairly sure that everyone that has dealt with Lea(h) Winkler felt about the same as you do now when they first met her. It was only after their dogs had problems or she was caught lying that her true nature came out.

I really hope that your dog remains healthy - for your sake and the dogs.

You "received" one of their puppies because you won it in a drawing on their website. This review is nothing more than an advertisement for them since they gave you a free puppy.

Little or no health testing being done by these breeders:

Imapups Quintessential Puppy Girl - "Legacy" (dob 4/8/2009) - no verifiable hip, elbow, eye or heart clearances
Cprfld Imapup's Happily Ever After - "Ever" (dob 7/15/2008) - no verifiable hip, elbow, eye or heart clearances
Imapup's Gnothi Seauton - "Delphi" (4/24/2008) - no verifiable hip, elbow, eye or heart clearances
CPRFLD Imapup's On My Honor I Will Do My Best - "Scout" (01/06/2008) - no verifiable hip, elbow, eye or heart clearances
Imapup's Chasing Rainbows - "Rainey" (11/15/2007) - no verifiable hip, elbow, eye or heart clearances
Sires:
Imapup's Hoalie Alaskan Asher - "Asher" (06/21/2005) - cardiac clearance done by practitioner, not cardiologist, no verifiable hip, elbow, or eye clearances
Imapup's Pistus Elpis Agape Dieu Parmi Nous - "Nous" - (01/28/2008) - no verifiable hip, elbow, eye or heart clearances. Sired 1st litter at approximately 17 months of age.
Chien D'Or's Cprflds Easy Money - "Cache" (1/29/2007) - no verifiable hip, elbow, eye or heart clearances.
CPRFLD Imapups Duck. Duck. Goose! - "Goose" or "Jagger" (07/14/2008) - no verifiable hip, elbow, eye or heart clearances.

Not ONE of the Goldens listed on their website has complete and/or verifiable clearances. The same can be said for their Bernese Mountain Dogs. They have had several dog records locked on the Golden Retriever database, k9data, for removing the registration number, breeder and owner name from their dogs after it was shown that their dogs were either bred under the age of 2 or bred without verifiable clearances.

At a minimum, Goldens that are being bred should be 2 years of age (the age when FINAL clearances for hips and elbows can be done), have final clearances which are printed on colored paper from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and have an OFA number starting with GR-XXXX, have a cardiac clearance done by a cardiologist (practitioners have received no specialized training in listening to hearts), and a YEARLY eye exam. Since they are breeding "Imported" "European x Nordic Blend" Goldens", these "breeders" should also be testing for Icthyosis, a skin disease that causes a dogs' skin to flake like fish scales which is more prevalent in European-type Goldens.

To top it all off, this breeder is now breeding their non-health tested Goldens to non-health tested Bernese Mountain Dogs. Berners have a HIGH incidence of elbow dysplasia (ranked #6 with the OFA) with 21% of all Berners tested having dysplastic elbows and these "breeders" don't even check for that.

This "breeder" says that they have had no issues with genetic problems. Well, it's easy to say that when you haven't TESTED your dogs for those issues to see if they have them and their puppies are not being tested to see if any problems has been passed on. Most genetic/health disorders cannot be diagnosed without testing (x-rays, specialized eye exams, etc). Many dogs with hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, & cataracts show little to no outward symptoms. Dogs with heart conditions usually show no outward symptoms but can suddenly drop dead and the owner may be too distraught to get an exam done after the fact to see what caused it. The breeders who are testing their breeding dogs can eliminate or reduce the risk of the pups having these disorders. The ones who don't test could be passing on serious and sometimes fatal genetic disorders and not even be aware of it.

Do your homework before you buy - go to the Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) website if you are looking for a Golden. Go to the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America (BMDCA) if you want a Berner. In either case, make sure that the breeder that you are looking at is doing the best that they can to insure a healthy puppy - by doing the appropriate genetic and health testing!

You find my post insulting? Why? Are you insulted because I pointed out that Kinship Companions is not doing everything that they can to insure that their puppies are healthy? Everything that I posted was the complete truth and is EASILY verifiable on-line. You haven't said anything that refutes any of the information that I put up here. I get that your dog is great and others' dogs are great. Berners in general are lovely dogs. However, since this "breeder" does not do FINAL clearances on their dogs, they are not necessarily producing healthy dogs. Your pup may look healthy on the outside but it is nearly impossible to tell by simply looking at a dog whether or not the dog has hip or elbow dysplasia. Eye problems that can cause pain and blindness can be missed by a general practicing vet. Heart problems that can cause a dog to drop dead at your feet with no warning cannot always be found by a general practitioner.

I will say it again - almost none of the dogs that Kinship Companions is breeding now have verifiable clearances - hips, elbows, eyes, heart. If they are doing Penn-Hip, that's great but there's no way to verify that and Penn-Hip doesn't clear elbows or anything else. All of their breeding dogs should have at a minimum, final (not PRELIMINARY) hip and elbow certifications, a cardiac certification done by a Cardiologist, and YEARLY eye exams by a board certified Canine eye doctor. These minimums help to ensure that the puppies they produce are as healthy as possible. If they are not checking these things, they could be passing them on and not even know it.

BTW, as I said, none of the Berners currently listed by name on their site have any verifiable clearances either.
Elsa - Imapup's Done Up'D The Ante (dob 8/28/2008), AKC reg #WS28910708 - http://www.offa.org/results.html?all=WS28910708 - no records matched your request (means no FINAL hip/elbow clearances were done or the dog failed.)
Dixie - Imapup's Shut Up And Sing (dob 2/27/2006), AKC reg # WS16553303 - http://www.offa.org/results.html?all=WS16553303 - no records matched your request
Logan - Imapup's Legendary Shenanigans (dob 7/1/2007), AKC reg#WS22935002 - http://www.offa.org/results.html?all=WS22935002 - no records matched your request

Go to the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America (BMDCA) if you want a Berner. Make sure that the breeder that you are looking at is doing the best that they can to insure a healthy puppy - by doing the appropriate genetic and health testing!
http://www.bmdca.org/health/tests.php

Really? You don't care that her parents could have Hip Dysplasia or Elbow Dysplasia and that the risk of your puppy being dysplastic is increased if they do? You don't care that they could be creating puppies who might be crippled and/or require costly surgeries to fix? Puppies that could go blind? Or drop dead? Are you aware that even a Mildly dysplastic dog can produce a Severely affected dog? Yes, there is always a risk but the genetic/health testing decreases that risk substantially.

I guarantee that unless your vet is an orthopedist, a cardiologist, and a eye specialist, they did not do any health/genetic testing on your puppy when you got her. Your vet looked your puppy over, listened to her heart and lungs, gave her eyes a cursory check and pronounced her healthy. 7-8 weeks old is too young to determine if your pup is dysplastic or not. Most of the disorders I have mentioned don't show up until pups are between 4 and 12 months of age and up. If your vet has never done x-rays on her hips and elbows, your vet has no idea if they are dysplastic or not. Some eye conditions require special equipment and training to discern - practitioner vets rarely have either. The same goes for some heart conditions.

It boggles my mind that people do less research when bringing home a puppy (a living, breathing animal) than they would do for buying a car. It's easy for these breeders to say that they've never had any issue when they aren't testing for genetic/health disorders and neither are their clients. Just because they've never seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in their lines.

Do your homework before you buy - go to the Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) website (grca.org) if you are looking for a Golden. Go to the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America (BMDCA) if you want a Berner. In either case, make sure that the breeder that you are looking at is doing the best that they can to insure a healthy puppy - by doing the appropriate genetic and health testing!
Berner recommended testing: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BMD
Golden recommended testing: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=GR

Tubie is Bat ### Crazy and Bernese Lover - I post what I do so that other people can make informed choices when they are looking for a breeder. You don't care for what I wrote, that's fine. However, if I can educate one person and help them get the healthiest puppy that they can, I'm happy.

Tubie is Bat ### Crazy - obviously, you've been stalking me as well since you think you know everything about me. Obviously, I have touched a nerve with you since you created a username that specifically calls me a rude name. Since you've been stalking my postings, show me one thing that I wrote that is not correct. Show me where anything that I wrote could be proven in a court of law to be false. You can't. If you and your breeder friends are so proud of the health/genetic testing that your dogs have, why not put it out there for everyone to see? Most reputable breeders do. So put your money where your mouth is and post the results.

Bernese lover - I'm here because I use this site to educate others. There is absolutely nothing in the rules of this site that prevents that. If the site owners didn't want comments on complaints, they wouldn't have enabled them in the first place. I can also ask you the same thing - why are you here? You have no complaint either...

Yes, I belong to the Golden Retriever Club of America - a group that is at the forefront of canine genetic and health issues. The GRCA has raised MILLIONS of dollars for health research for Golden Retrievers. Their latest project is a lifetime study on Golden Retrievers with the aim to identify risk factors for development of Cancer and other diseases. https://www.caninelifetimehealth.org I am proud of what the GRCA does and proud to be a member.

BTW, I don't give my name because there are people who have threatened me and threatened harm to my dogs because I pointed out the inaccuracies and outright lies they posted about their dogs. Just look at the fact that you, Tubie is Bat ### Crazy, created a user name that insults me and wrote additional slander in your post when you have absolutely no clue who I am or what I'm about. Do you honestly think that I am going to give out my name to someone like you?

Do your homework before you buy - go to the Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) website (grca.org) if you are looking for a Golden. Go to the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America (BMDCA) if you want a Berner. In either case, make sure that the breeder that you are looking at is doing the best that they can to insure a healthy puppy - by doing the appropriate genetic and health testing!
Berner recommended testing: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BMD
Golden recommended testing: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=GR

Do your homework before you buy - go to the Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) website (grca.org) if you are looking for a Golden. Go to the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America (BMDCA) if you want a Berner. In either case, make sure that the breeder that you are looking at is doing the best that they can to insure a healthy puppy - by doing the appropriate genetic and health testing!
Berner recommended testing: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BMD
Golden recommended testing: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=GR

Copperfield Goldens aka Tubie is Bat ### Crazy - get a grip. It looks like you have 2 litters of puppies on the ground. Why don't you go play with them and calm down?

If/when you want to post something rational, I might respond to you again. Or you can continue to rant on and I will ignore you and continue to post HELPFUL information for people who are willing to listen. Your choice.

Do your homework before you buy - go to the Golden Retriever Club of America (GRCA) website (grca.org) if you are looking for a Golden. Go to the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America (BMDCA) if you want a Berner. In either case, make sure that the breeder that you are looking at is doing the best that they can to insure a healthy puppy - by doing the appropriate genetic and health testing!
Berner recommended testing: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=BMD
Golden recommended testing: http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=GR

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