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Just want to get the word out about a dog this breeder is breeding. The female is Casee and the sire was Costner who actually passed away. We have purchased a puppy from this breeder with major orthopedic issues, elbow dysplasia, medial patella luxations in BOTH knees and our dog is only 1 year old! I have contacted the breeder and despite my efforts in informing her of these issues, she is continuing to breed this dog! I just want potential buyers to BE AWARE!
My only mission here is to get the word out about a dog(Casee) that she is breeding and we have a puppy from one of Casee's litters. Despite the OFA certifications on Casee our puppy has MAJOR orthopedic issues and I have provided the documentation from the OFA as proof to this breeder. She has chosen to ignore this information and continue breeding Casee. Casee may have OFA certifications on her, but now she has produced a puppy with a major genetic issues, so in my opinion her OFA certifications are meaningless! All I am asking the breeder to do is to consider NOT breeding Casee anymore because this puts many other families at risk for the same problem and I feel this is irresponsible and not fair to others! People that buy puppies from any of Casee's future litters have a right to know this information...So BUYER BEWARE! if you want to buy a dog from one of Casee's litters and take on this risk...Then be my guest! You have been informed.
Also in comment to the breeder offering us another puppy. This was a very generous offer, however, we would rather have the $1000 that we paid for our puppy so that we could use that money to pay for the surgery our 1 year old Golden desperately needs! The breeder refused to consider giving us any of the money that we paid for this puppy. We felt that $1000 was a small price to pay for the hell our family has been through over the last year. We are devastated!
Another comment to one of the breeder's posts. Yes our golden has medial patella luxations and there may be no OFA certifications that can be done for this, however, our dog still has this condition and is a product of her breeding. Also, what the breeder does NOT mention is that our other orthopedic complaint is elbow dysplasia and our golden has that and we have OFA documentation to prove it. We have provided this documentation to the breeder and yet she still continues to breed Casee. I am not mentioning the sire Costner in my complaint as he had mysteriously passed after we received our puppy so she can no longer breed him anymore. When our family asked why Costner had passed, the breeder was very elusive and never really gave us a straight answer. My focus now is warning people who consider puppies from any of Casee's litters.
I have tried to upload a picture of our dog that we purchased from this breeder that was taken a few months ago. He actually would lie down to eat and drink because his legs are in such bad shape, he was in pain! We have him on medication and he is doing better with his pain, but he still requires surgery to correct some of these orthopedic problems. I'm not sure the picture has come through or not. Hopefully the picture did upload, so that others can see what our reality is.
Again, if you want to do everything in your power to prevent this from happening again, then STOP BREEDING CASEE! We were from Casee's first litter 16 months ago. There are NO puppies from Casee older than that! This is FACT and our puppy has ELBOW DYSPLASIA AND MEDIAL PATELLA LUXATIONS in both knees! So if you want to hide behind your OFA certifications, then go right ahead! You cannot change the fact that Casee has produced a dog with ALL of these issues and you choose to ignore it and keep breeding her! I have exposed this as fact, so people have been warned. My job here is done.
A comment to 51Cathyjo: in one of your prior posts you stated: "this Golden has very GOOD rating on her OFA (Orthopedic Foundation of Animals) and has NOT produced a bad puppy". I think you might be misunderstanding this. Casee HAS produced a bad puppy and I have OFA documentation to prove it! At the breeder's request, I sent my puppy's Xrays to the OFA and had them verify the diagnosis of ELBOW DYSPLASIA and I have sent that documentation to the breeder per her request. She chooses to ignore this information and call this incident a "rarity" even though she has only been breeding this dog for 16 months. In my opinion, this is unethical and NOT doing everything in her power to keep this from happening again.
Another comment to 51Cathyjo, I believe the breeder's offer of another puppy was generous and I have stated that in this debate, however, we cannot financially afford to take on another puppy given the surgeries my current puppy needs. Also, the breeder made it very clear to me that if I accepted another puppy from her, I would NOT be able to sell that puppy to get the money for our dog's surgery. I couldn't do that anyway! This is a living creature, so if I did adopt another puppy, I would commit to loving and taking care of it the duration of it's life! Also, in light of the fact that this breeder continues to breed a dog that has produced a puppy with SEVERE orthopedic issues and she chooses to ignore it and call it a fluke, I could not in my right mind, accept another animal from her and take that risk! I pleaded with her to consider giving us our money instead of another puppy so we could put that money towards our dog's surgery, but she declined. I have accepted that. My complaint filed here is only to warn others that she is breeding a dog she knows has produced these issues and is putting others at risk by ignoring the information that was provided to her from the OFA on our puppy.
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Another point would be the sire that one breeds with the dam and it's "rating". My ONLY sire is rated "EXCELLENT" and his elbows, eyes and heart are rated "NORMAL". There is NO higher rating! This is the sire I breed with ALL my females now. He comes from champion bloodlines and his sire is in the SDHF (show dog hall of fame). These dogs are NOT cheap to acquire! This sire with all of my other Goldens MOSTLY rated "GOOD", is very hard to beat. Take a look at other breeders in the midwest or all around the country for that matter and tell me what you find! Do some research BEFORE stating your bias opinions.
Some are so quick to judge what is there on the surface, but not to see this situation from a breeders standpoint. I am in compliance with my contract and offered over and above what I agreed to contractually. Greedy you say? At best after all the sleepless nights waiting for puppies to be born and then staying with them 24/7 for weeks to be sure everyone gets enough to eat and then after all that effort an inexperienced dam lays on a perfectly healthy puppy! Beyond our control as these are living, breathing creatures, we looe countless puppies for various reasons. We lose dogs early in life due to conditons beyond our control, we lose the elderly pet that we have loved for years and after breeding for over 33 years, that is MANY! We HOPEFULLY make a small profit each year for our work and it is physically back breaking, emotionally devestating and financially impossible! HOPEFULLY after all the debits of food, Veterinary bills, maintenance we make a mere $5000 a year! GREEDY? What do you make a year? Do you give 1/5 of your earnings to the poor and unfortunate as you are asking ME to do for these people? Maybe it is time to look at the FACTS in my previous comments and see this situation from the other side! It would be very easy for me to do the "emotional" thing here as I have been tempted to do for years! But in spite of what any of you think, I HAVE to be smart about the very little I make so that I can continue to do what I do or I would certainly go bankrupt. Then you could rely only on backyard breeders and puppy mills! Think about that for awhile!
Even though Casee has "GOOD" hips and elbows that are "NORMAL" (by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) her rating (or ranking) alone is not enough to assess whether or not she has the gene to pass on hereditary diseases onto her offspring. Therefore, we as responsible breeders consider the dog's "family" or ancestors to decern whether or not this gene is found or "carried on" through the generations. In Casee's case, there isn't a dog that hasn't passed any hereditary clearances on either her sire or her dam's side for well over 10 generations (as far back as I researched). This proves that this ONE incident was "just a fluke". This is based on scientic evidence and experts through OFA. Those dogs with "tighter" joints (hips and elbows) are less likely to develop dysplasia OR HAVE THE GENE TO PASS ON! Casee was not only ranked at the lowest end of the scale but as "GOOD" which is the majority of rankings. An "EXCELLENT" ranking is only found in less than 2% of the population OF ALL DOGS in the USA! Two of my dogs in my kennel have this ranking. In all the years I have been breeding, I have had 2 EXCELLENT ratings, 3 FAIR ratings, and the rest have all been GOOD! That is a heck of a record! This is what is used to support the criterion on which to base our selection of breeding stock!
This breeder sounds terribly unsympathetic to me. This family simply wanted to get this sweet animal to join their family and have fallen in love with him. I cannot believe what they are going through now, and that this breeder will not consider reimbursing them for the cost of this dog, knowing what all is happening genetically and the surgeries facing this poor dog. It's sad to think that the other families may have to endure this same kind of treatment in the future. Greed is a wicked thing...so is having to much pride to admit that maybe you should do the right thing. Shame on you!
Maybe if I post this information on a "smaller" comment it will be easier for the buyers to understand: "One of the reasons we still have a high incidence of hip dysplasia in the Golden Retriever is that the tried-and-true method of evaluating just the ONE ANIMAL doesn't tell you what its genes are." He goes on to say "In other words, incidence of hip dysplasian within the family is a far better indicator of what genes a dog may carry than simply an evaluation of only one dog." "Receiving a ranking instead of simply and evaluation is important. For starters, it provides a more accurate assessment of whether the dog will develop CHD. Additionally, because dogs with tighter hips are less likely to develop CHD or have CHD genes to pass on, breeders have better, more scientifically supported criterion on which to base their selection of breeding stock".! THIS IS PROFESSIONALS SPEAKING OF GENETICS! READ THIS! ARE YOU GOING TO IGNORE THE FACTS BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO ADMIT THAT YOU ARE WRONG IN ACCUSING ONE DOG OF YOUR PUPPY'S PROBLEMS? WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS FOR YOUR ACCUSATIONS?!
I'm sorry to hear this about your puppy and the heartache it is causing you but I also still believe that what you are asking Sue to do will not change the situation at all. She is offering you money in the sense of a puppy and you will not have to give your puppy up. You could always sell the puppy she gives you and then you will have the money for your puppy. People need to know that there are other reason why this can happen beside's genetics like I mentioned earlier. We don't know how you have been taking care of your puppy and if you have been feeding the wrong food, exercising him too much, giving him vitamins with calcium which can cause overgrowth of bone problems. It's just that you cannot demand that Sue doesn't use the parents of this puppy as this is the first case that she has had with this problem out of many litters this female and her male has produced. It is a very sad situation but $1000.00 is not going to help much. Besides like I said, she is offering you $1000.00 in the form of another puppy and you don't have to return the one you have. That is a fair offer in my opinion. I know that right now you have grief issues and part of the grief process is to blame others for a problem but hopefully soon you will move on and just do what's right for this problem instead of anger toward a breeder that does everything in her power to produce the best puppies she can with the science that is provided. Take care and God Bless.
I have the misfortune of having taken over the TLC. Restaurant now
DA Carlo I have build a successful business Donald Beskine has obtained a judgement against me Fraudulentley On the 14th Of February 2011 my lawyears lodged a criminal complaint with the Court to have judgement set aside and asking For E.300.000 to be lodged with the court, It seems that he has issued a writ against me in November 2010 all mails for the MBC are delivered to Donald Beskine it was never given to me or I signed for anything. I collected a registered mail and law and behold he has obtained in my absence judgement for E.66.000 Checking the court papers we discovered Donald Beskine entered a forge document (contract) stating the rent to be treble then it actually is. Maibe this time he has slipped up.
It's frightening that a judge grants a judgement on a strength of an English contract ( not translated) in my absence and been aware that I was not served. I need for Fred or Robert to Contact me.
I think the last comments have gotten WAY off of the subject! I am only trying to get the word out about Casee a dog this breeder is breeding! My puppy is a product of Casee and he is from this breeder's 1st litter born on October 29th, 2009. My dog is now 16 months old, so there are NO dogs from Casee that are older than that! ALL the more reason to BE AWARE! My puppy has MAJOR ORTHOPEDIC ISSUES, so just consider yourself warned! She is going to keep breeding this dog, and If I can get the word out and help 1 person or family from suffering the hell my family has been through over the last year, it will be worth it! I too, will be praying. Praying for the surgeries and suffering my dog has to endure, praying that other families will not have to endure this due to this breeder's irresponsibility and praying that we do not have to put this animal down and devastate my daughters. This is a BAD situation all around and I hope it does not happen to anyone! All I can do is try to inform others. I have done all I can.
Zachary, you have missed a lot in the previous statements! I offered to GIVE these people a puppy and NOT have them return theirs...OVER AND BEYOND what my contract states! This was STILL not agreeable to them! So you tell me, is it or is it not about the money!
It seems that this debate is OVER! I think Cathy said it very well! It certainly would be nice to make money at what I love to do as many people hate their jobs and make lots of money! What would you rather have? You both should be ashamed of yourselves for the language and tone you are using! Why don't you specify what you do for a living, I would like to challenge you on what you do even if I don't know anything about it! Sound familiar?! Casee has had 3 WONDERFUL litters of puppies! But it isn't about her track record it is about the track record of dogs that pass their clearances and the odds of them passing it onto their offspring! Studies can't be done ON an isolated incidence it takes many years of responsible breeding to "PERHAPS SOMEDAY ELIMINATE the most persistent of SERIOUS INHERITED DISEASES."! This statement can be found in the Golden Retriever magazine, Volume 4, 1998-99 edition. This edition has an entire section on Fighting Hereditary Disease by Marcia King. Many Doctor's have been quoted in this section. Dr. Goodman states "breeders should carefully assess the hips of a breeding prospect's entire family, not just those of the individual". "One of the reasons we still have a high incidence of hip dysplasia in the Golden Retriever is that the tried-and-true method of evaluating just the ONE ANIMAL doesn't tell you what its genes are." He goes on to say "In other words, incidence of hip dysplasian within the family is a far better indicator of what genes a dog may carry than simply an evaluation of only one dog." "Receiving a ranking instead of simply and evaluation is important. For starters, it provides a more accurate assessment of whether the dog will develop CHD. Additionally, because dogs with tighter hips are less likely to develop CHD or have CHD genes to pass on, breeders have better, more scientifically supported criterion on which to base their selection of breeding stock".! There is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more research as far as genetics go, so honestly, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about! You are just upset because this happened to YOU! Quit attacking people because of your misfortune! I, too, will pray for both you and your wife.
Hey, there is no money in breeding dogs IF you do it the right way like I and and some breeders do. I made $6, 000.00 for the whole year of 2010 after I deducted dogfood, Vet bills, kennel maintance, Obedient classes, wormings, shots, health clearances. I bet you make more money that this. I'm definitely not in it for the money and I don't need the money as my husband gets a very nice pension from the company he worked at and I'm a retired nurse. I do it for the breed as I love Goldens and want others to enjoy Goldens like I do. Let me ask you, what do you do NOT for money. I bet you work everyday not expecting to be paid for a good job well done. I have made many, many families very happy with my Goldens and they tell me they don't know how they would live without them. That is my goal. Not everyone thinks about money like you do. It's the people who think it's all about money that are the most greedy people in the world. I don't need or desire to give you the name of my kennel as that is not your business. I'm just here supporting breeders who care deeply about their dogs and without us, you would not have good healthy dogs as the people who do it for the money are the ones that produce puppies from parents that are not health clearanced. They do not want to take the time or the money to do it right. They are the ones to stay away from. Like I said, it's only the people who think we are in it for the money that are the most greedy people in the world as what you speak you become. IT was not that this breeder didn't offer this person something and it was a wonderful offer. IT was just that this person wanted to push this breeder into doing something that wasn't part of their agreement. I want to know what you do for a living and if you make any money for it. I am proud of what I do and that I can produce puppies that become part of families and families that care for them as much as I do. You sound like you are a very hateful person to attack someone like this. I'll be sure to pray for you.
It seems to me that you are a typical breeder in it for the money and don't give a damn about the problems and heartbreak that you cause families! Good luck with your breeding and I would strongly encourage people to stay away from you! What is the name of your kennel? Oh yeah...you didn't mention it! Good choice.
You still didn't answer the question: What is your track record with Casee? How many years have you been breeding her that you are so confident this is an isolated incident?
I too am a reputable breeder of Golden Retrievers and have my Goldens health checked and registered with OFA and CERF before breeding. There are many reasons besides genetics that can play into a puppy having bad hips and elbows. If you allow your puppy to become too obese, feed him something other than large breed puppy or adult food (which can make your puppies joints grow too quickly) and jump or exercise your puppy too much, these can play into having a defective puppy as well. We breeders produce the best puppies that we can so you can have a healthy puppy. I have had many Goldens who didn't pass health clearances and had them neutered or spay and found forever homes for them so that you can have a healthy puppy and I know this breeder does this also. Puppies are the same as a human baby or any other species and can not be guaranteed perfect health but just to lower the chances of health problems. When you buy a puppy, you are taking on the responsiblity of taking care of that puppy just like you would a family member. There are insurance programs out now that will insure your puppy in case you have trouble like this. If this is a family member, like a puppy really is, than you would not expect someone else to pay your bills for you. This is what you agreed to when you bought your puppy is to take good care of him and part of taking good care of him is to be responsible for his financial needs. It sounds like you just want to pass the responsibility of puppy ownership to someone else to take care of it for you. As far as this breeder not breeding this Golden anymore is really none of your business. She has proven herself to be a good breeder and just because this happened to you does not make her a bad breeder and to have to get rid of her female or male because YOU had a bad experience. That would be like getting rid of yourself if one of your babies had a health problem. This stuff happens in life to all of us and the fact remains that you just have to take the responsibility of this puppy and do what you can in the best interest of the puppy and quit pointing fingers. If we breeders stopped producing Golden Retrievers because of a very few unhealthy puppies then there would not be any healthy puppies for anyone. We do what we can and since you signed the agreement when you purchased your puppy you need to take the responsiblity and just do what you need to do without trying to change what the agreement has to say. Cathy
By the way! LOlcnbt is the husband of JoinLaGrange! Isn't that a bit of a "conflict of interest?! Especially when he comes off as an outside opinion!
MY CONTRACT STATES that "For claims with regards to hip, heart, elbow, or eye certification, a copy of the findings from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA), Pennsylvania Hip Improvement Program (PennHIP) or Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) MUST be submitted to KE-LI’S GOLDEN ACRES’ RETRIEVERS. Puppy must be returned. Shipping of the original and replacement puppy is at the expense of the Buyer. If Buyer opts to keep the puppy, then Seller agrees to give Buyer a discount of $250 toward a replacement puppy from the next available litter. Replacement may take up to one year and will be of equal or better breeding." It doesn't state that I will REFUND the money AND they can keep the puppy! This is the contract MUTALLY agreed upon! If you have your roof replaced and there is a problem, they might replace the roof again but are NOT going to refund your money. If you buy a car and it is a lemon, they are NOT going to allow you to KEEP your car AND give you a refund! I have owned registerd cats, horses and I have a contract that I sign as well when I adopt my VERY EXPENSIVE puppies with breeding rights! It is ALWAYS either a return and replacement, NEVER a cash refund! I loose TWO years of loving that puppy and am out financially as well! Clearances I have to pay for whether they pass or fail, plus shipping fees and travel expenses and Veterinary costs and worming and heart preventative and expensive food for two years; JUST SO THAT I CAN OFFER OFFSPRING THAT ARE TRUE TO STANDARD AND PASS THEIR CLEARANCES! That is NOT how any business goes! I realize this is a living creature, but again, this is the SAME agreement I have when adopting a puppy! MY TRACK RECORD? WONDERFUL, that is why I have had such a good reputation all of these years! A contract is a contract! If I meant it to say something different then I would have revised it!
It sounds like to me the buyer would rather have the money refunded than another puppy so that they can address the issues of the dog adopted from your kennel. If you feel this is such a rarity and would never happen again, then you should just give them the money that they paid for the puppy. Anyone can see that would be the best thing to do for the good of the animal that came from your kennel. That would be truly standing by your "product" and you would be much more admired for that in the long run. Most people would not return a puppy that they have loved for a year and that has become a part of their family. And from my experience, these orthopedic surgeries can be VERY expensive, so giving them another puppy is not going to help them "fix" the problem. And besides, you mention that you have had many puppies in your kennel sired by Costner but how many litters has Casee had that you are so confident that this is a rarity? What is your track record there?
Please review again the breeder's comment above. Conscientious breeders and dedicated veterinary researchers are using the tools available to them to MINIMIZE and PERHAPS SOMEDAY ELIMINATE the most persistent of SERIOUS INHERITED DISEASES. Therefore, it is our practice to DO WHAT WE CAN TO REDUCE genetic diseases in Goldens. Any of my dogs or even the best of show dogs has a chance of producing genetic diseases. That is EXACTLY why we do all the expensive testing! But that is NOT a guarantee with anything! The odds of this female producing another puppy like this is astronomical and is the same chance as any other dog in my kennel or anyone else's. The hundreds of puppies that Costner has sired and the other puppies produced in my kennel are proof of the rarity of this problem ever happening again. I have been breeding for 33 years and I believe that gives me much more knowledge on genetics than most. To eliminate the possibilities of this happening again would be for all of us responsible breeders to stop breeding completely. I have agreed to abide by the hereditary contract that was MUTUALLY agreed upon AND I offered above and beyond that. This did not satify the buyer. That is all that I can do.
Breeder's comment: “Conscientious breeders and dedicated veterinary researchers are using the tools available to them to minimize and perhaps someday eliminate the most persistent of serious inherited diseases. Therefore, it is our practice to do what we can to reduce genetic diseases in Goldens." WOW If you want to reduce inherited genetic diseases in your goldens, then stop breeding the one in your kennel that has produced a serious genetic disease! Are you nuts? Are you in this for the money or the good of the breed?
This breeder sure sounds like she is reputable to me. I have checked her web sight and it states exactly what she has written in her response. It also sounds like she has tried to do the write thing and go over and above the stipulations of her signed contract. As far as continuing to breed the female I see no evidence other than this one isolated incident. From my research it would indicate that the chances of this happening again would be same odds as the dog contracting cancer it is simply a sad fluke which can happen with all of Gods living creations no matter how perfectly healthy both parents are.
WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?
WOOF WOOF!
WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?
Jesus Christ yet ANOTHER dumb ### who bought a pet from a "reputable" breeder and is ### about the result...
Another point to this complaint is this; I DO have a hereditary contract for all my puppies and I DO stand behind them. According to my contract: "Reasonable precautions have been taken to prevent this puppy from acquiring hereditary faults. KE-LI’S GOLDEN ACRES’ RETRIEVERS warrants and guarantees that the puppy purchased is in good health, of sound mind and free of physical defects as apparent to the naked eye. In addition, KE-LI’S GOLDEN ACRES RETRIEVERS warrants and guarantees that the puppy purchased will pass all the required clearances; defined as hips and elbow certification (either PennHIP above 50% or Preliminary OFA with a grade of “fair” or better), heart certification (OFA) and eye certification (CERF).
For claims with regards to hip, heart, elbow, or eye certification, a copy of the findings from the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA), Pennsylvania Hip Improvement Program (PennHIP) or Canine Eye Registry Foundation (CERF) MUST be submitted to KE-LI’S GOLDEN ACRES’ RETRIEVERS. Puppy must be returned. Shipping of the original and replacement puppy is at the expense of the Buyer. If Buyer opts to keep the puppy, then Seller agrees to give Buyer a discount of $250 toward a replacement puppy from the next available litter. Replacement may take up to one year and will be of equal or better breeding."
This contract was agreed on by BOTH parties! I offered this to this individual and she did NOT accept its conditons. In fact, I offered over and beyond my contract and told her that she could keep her Golden and I would "GIVE" her another puppy later on this year. This did not satisfy her complaint, therefore, the offer was retracted.
Casee (or Costner, who is deceased) is no different than any other dog in my kennel or any dog in anyone else’s kennel. This statement appears on my “Philosophy” page on my web site: “Conscientious breeders and dedicated veterinary researchers are using the tools available to them to minimize and perhaps someday eliminate the most persistent of serious inherited diseases. Therefore, it is our practice to do what we can to reduce genetic diseases in Goldens. Our Goldens hips and elbows are cleared through the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) and their eyes have passed a CERF (Canine Eye Registration Foundation) exam as well as the heart clearance - Subvalvular Aortic Stenosis (SAS)”.
The condition to which this individual has complained about is “medial patella luxations” which is not a concern in large breed dogs; therefore the GRCA (Golden Retriever Club of America) does not recommend or require any tests be done on Golden Retrievers. Since Golden Retrievers’ bones do not fully develop until the age of 2 years old, we wait until that time to do our testing when their hips can be certified. Casee’s hips are rated “GOOD” through the Orthopedic Foundation of Animals. Her elbows are rated “NORMAL” and her heart and eyes are rated “NORMAL”. Costner had the very same clearances with the same ratings. ALL of my Golden Retrievers, of breeding age (2 years or older) have had all of these clearances done and all have passed them. This is ALL that we as responsible breeders can do to “reduce genetic diseases” in our large breed dogs. It is IMPOSSIBLE to know where this gene or defect comes from or what parent or lineage it comes from. As you can see on www.k9data.com all of Casee and Costner’s ancestors were also cleared of these diseases as well. Therefore, neither can be blamed for this "single" incident. There have been no other reports of elbow dysplasia or “medial patella luxations” in these bloodlines.