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PO Box 5039
Deltona, Florida
United States - 32728

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Creepy Hollowsdogmatic owners

I cannot live with myself if I did not speak up. Having said that, I have had a lot of time to think since the incident in the forum, and I have made up my mind: I am breaking ties with Creepy Hollows.
What the site owners did to the Native American woman was distasteful. Some of the things she said were uncomfortable but she wasn't wrong nor do I believe her intentions were to harm. All brutal honesty is a hard pill to swallow, especially when you know you're wrong but don't want to admit it.
I feel as though the site owners took it as an attack on their knowledge, showing all of us that they don't know everything, that maybe some of their information is wrong, and that maybe what they're doing is not ethical. So they then attacked her. I wanted to do something but I was scared of being jumped on by Mag too. I'm disappointed with myself.
Because I have always had a fascination with Native Americans and their cultures. Personally, I thought it was a treat and a huge opportunity to learn firsthand information from the Native American woman. Now that ship has sailed, but it was an eye opener to what I was once proud to be part of. From the incident, I saw people's true colors.

Thank you Creepy Hollows for my companions and all the great memories. But had I knew before what kind of people the owners were, then I would have stayed away. I will be sharing information about the said incident from the forum, screenshots I took, with others as a warning.

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    RESOLVED

    The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer's satisfaction.

    • Updated by NovaNor · Sep 15, 2019

      I was reading other complaints, so before anyone gets confused! I never had a problem working with CH. All my orders came on time, their vessels that they sell are gorgeous, every item I bought was exactly what they promised, and I loved the goodies that came along as well.

      My only problem was this incident that happened in the forum, seeing the owners, and others, for what they truly are.

      Long story short: Great service! But not so great people.

    • Creepy Hollows's response · Sep 19, 2019

      I'm sorry you felt compelled to post this. I did not personally feel attacked at all, and I expressed in the full discussion (which we can make public) that people felt oppressed to participate in the cultural appropriation thread because they felt several members (yourself included) were not open to any other viewpoint than your own. They didn't think they could offer an opposing viewpoint without you and other members calling them racist or bigots, etc.

      I don't know why you would feel scared of being "jumped on" by myself when I didn't jump on anyone. I offered an opposing viewpoint, as several others tried, and I did make it clear that we stand for all voices & that hearing everyone out on a subject as hot-button as cultural appropriation was important.

      I can understand that you are upset about being warned because of your behavior, but when I said that welcoming everyone and coming from a point of universal love was a good idea in all matters, you said it was akin to "genocide", which I did not understand. You were very hostile and not at all open to anything aside from people agreeing with you, and that's not what our Forum is about, it's about being open to everyone.

      Our Forum supports and welcomes all viewpoints, and if we have to take complaintboard posts in order to stand for the freedom of information in the supernatural and the freedom of EVERYONE having the opportunity to express their viewpoints, then that's the price we pay. I will stand and fight for the freedom of knowledge in the supernatural & magick every single day, it's why we started our site, but you denied that conversation to many members because you became abrasive and unwilling to listen to anyone.

      If anyone would like to see the new cultural appropriation thread & magick on the Forum they will see that no one is arguing, no one is calling each other names, and everyone is able to offer their thoughts without the fear of people actually calling them names. I haven't jumped on anyone, and we are having a discussion of opposing viewpoints with RESPECT, which was lacking from the thread you started. If you chose to part ways with CH it's because we put your account on post-approval after the name-calling, and because you were warned about being so hostile towards other members.

      If you feel compelled to warn people because we foster an open environment of love and appreciation for all people, all cultures, and the unbreakable marriage of cross-cultural backgrounds in a 21st century world, and not negating the fact that past lives play a factor in our current lives, then by all means warn them. Hopefully they will have enough confidence to look for themselves and see that we believe in loving & appreciating everyone.

      P.S. Thank you Vampire Lady :) Whether someone agrees with us or not on an issue is not a problem, it's people who come with respect and are willing to have an earnest discussion of opposing viewpoints that makes knowledge become true wisdom, and a welcoming learning experience.

      If anyone would like to see the full conversation and see who actually jumped on whom, and who was actually name-calling and being hostile, we have nothing to hide.

    • Creepy Hollows's response · Sep 20, 2019

      I think it's also really important to note that you left out the fact that these discussions were spread out over multiple threads over a period of over 5 months! There was continual requests from mods in the threads over a period from April to September for everyone involved in these cultural discussions (Native American & otherwise) to be please respectful and mindful of the words they use and the mods were ignored.

      5 months passed, so it's not as if this was a bad situation that rapidly degraded, and even after we received Helpdesk tickets speaking about bullying & intolerance of 3 Forum members on the Native American side of the argument, the emails directly to the members asking for respect and tolerance of opposite viewpoints were ignored.

      Then over the August & September months when the offending members were officially warned through the Forum system, yet again, they ignored the request for civility.

      It's not as though myself or anyone else came guns blazing with intolerance and ignorance, over 5 months is ample time, over multiple threads, for everyone who has a viewpoint regarding cultural appropriation, the use of non-native sage, and the ownership of entities by cultures, to be discussed and be done so respectfully.

      I responded to the very controversial and hot-button topics after multiple members who were not party to all the Forum fighting, wrote in to report the problems, and several long-term members wanted to take a break from the Forum because of the fighting. The Forum is for everyone, it's not for 1 religion, 1 culture, 1 belief system, 1 country, etc. As custodians of that resource of knowledge, we have to take some action when no one over a period of 5 months wants to back down. My action in responding with an alternative viewpoint and making points that other members tried to express, but were shutdown and called names, is not "jumping on" anyone. It could have been a productive discussion if all parties involved had decided to act with grace and respect in the months of April, May, June, July, August, or September... but that didn't happen and you can't say they weren't all given ample warning and opportunity to be kind to each other.

      Anyone who knows our Forum, knows that we give AMPLE warnings to controversial members and topics. We don't take action lightly, and my response (not all the owners, just me) to all of the barbs and fighting words exchanged between both sides was to come from a place of love and respect, and to be appreciative of all cultures, and to welcome & embrace everyone.

      I wish you well in your journey, and I hope that anyone who wants to discuss cultures & magick on any website is open to learning and experiencing knowledge from all viewpoints and not being stringently narrow-minded. We believe in an open discussion in all things, and that leads to these complaints from people upset when members repeatedly break rules and eventually get banned or have action taken on their accounts.

    • Va
      Vampire Lady Sep 17, 2019

      If you bother her cubs then the mama bear will come! Thats how I saw it but I do agree it was kind of ugly to see. And hear! I wouldn't go so far as to imply the owners are what you're implying yet some of the things expressed were questionable. But! Everyone deserves a second chance. Ash, Mag and the Creepy Hollows team do the best they can, they also have bad days like the rest of us. Lets not forget that they're human too. 💞

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