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Family Go Karts

Family Go Karts review: Warranty yea right 41

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10:33 pm EST
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I purchased a Hemsuim HS250ST-6 ATV 250cc from Family go karts. I lasted 2 rides for my Son, It started Smoking. I contacted Jeff Becker the owner. Filled out the forms and sent Pictures of the enging problem in February 2009. I have sent more emails then any one could amagin. Attorney letter / Filed with the BBB in Minn. Nothing has even been done. I founfd out that Warranty Protect / Gloria McDonald would take care of the repairs. I contacted Her, Two month's go by, She finally talked with me. After taking it 38 miles my self to a shop She set up. It stayed their 54 days, They could not even get the head off the engine. I picked it up and brought it home. It has been in my way / In the garage ever sense. Jeff Becker is a LIER. He will not Help any one. Their sale's technech is Fraud. I will at some point in my near future take this C*** to Minn.and confront Him Personally, If I have to I will cut the darn junk up and leave it at His front door. Family Go Karts is a Dam Joke. I assure everone. DO NOT BUY THIS CHINESE JUNK.

Resolved

The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.

41 comments
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Laura Candelore
, US
May 09, 2023 9:45 am EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Bought a brand new go kart. Had to put together way more things then in the “video” to top it off the “brand new” battery does not work at all. After going back and forth with a “Jeff” he refuses to do good and send a new battery his response is that that’s not covered under warranty! Terrible customer service terrible business!

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J.U.stice
, US
May 22, 2019 11:42 am EDT

received a damaged engine and kept my money! Customer service (Kayla) responds by hanging up the phone. claim #46459.

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Kevin Riley
, US
Jul 25, 2018 4:03 pm EDT

I ordered two ATV's from Family Go-Karts. The second day one of the ATV's broke. I've been trying to get them to help for 3 weeks now. I keep calling and they keep feeding me a line of BS. Their Tech is always out of the office or working from home, or on Vacation. I have a feeling they have no intentions of helping me with any of my stuff. I wish I would not have bought from them. Stay away!

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Barbara Handy
, US
Jun 15, 2018 1:51 pm EDT

Well, I do wish I had seen these reviews before we bought our Eagle 150cc. We were going for the 150cc TAO TAO, but were out of stock, so Jeff gave us the Eagle for same price. Thought it was a great deal, until it came to us. Box was in good shape so we opened box, deep scratches, rounded off bolts, no lock nut for axle, deep gouges and sm hole in seat. Would have sent it back, but was way to much trouble to do so. If my husband did not know a few things about bike assy, we would be paying someone to to assy it. I was told all I needed to do was add batt acid and charge it and she would be ready to go. LIES. Has two single wires left after he assibled handle bars, not one person there could tell us what they were for. My husband said words I never hear, he was so mad, Had to request title and bill of sale, what kind of crap was that. Should have hung up phone when Jeff was smart [censored] to me right off the bat

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Overthetopangry
, US
May 23, 2018 8:57 am EDT
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Oh my goodness - we apparently did no research on this company - I think we were just so excited about purchasing a go-kart for our grandkids, and after all, this was from a "christian-owned" company - oh please - with the type of business they run - I am afraid they are going to be splitting hell wide open. This company is nothing but a ripoff, sweet and helpful before the purchase, can't get in touch with them after the purchase. Go-kart was "lost" for a month, and like everyone else has stated - tears up after every time it is ridden. I can guarantee it hasn't been ridden 1/2 dozen times since Christmas 2016 - always toren up, something different everytime. Like one customer said - it is so irritating when you have to look in the faces of your grandkids - everytime they come over - "is the gokart fixed", No, I am sorry it isn't, or if it happens to be fixed - it ALWAYS tears up with something different everytime they ride it. We are looking at a new motor now to the tune of $300. Trust me - buy local - you will save money and heartache in the end! DO NOT buy from this company!

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pwartist55
, US
Sep 04, 2017 2:00 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

This company is a fraud. My gokart arrived broken . a deflated tire, steering problems. a seven year old turned it over in less than two minutes of use on a flat surface. This owner Jeff Backer did nothing to help. The company should be investigated by the State of Minnesota.
Do not buy from this company.

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CoMar
, US
Nov 04, 2016 2:59 pm EDT

Horrible experience! Support and sales people extremely rude.
Stay away from them if you don't want sales reps yelling at you and phone hung up in the middle of a talk that doesn't go well for them. Nasty people, never experienced something like this!

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Hitmyheadagainstthewall
, US
Jan 08, 2016 7:47 pm EST
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This is such validation. I thought I had stepped into a Twilight Zone episode. Dealing with Jeff for 14 days. The e mail string would be hysterical if it wasn’t so painful for me. I want my Christmas back. They hijacked it. I could not figure out why. Now I know. They are liars and fakes. Brother Jay today on the phone was so incredibly rude, and made me out to be the bad guy. $1200.00 of carts. I have been miserable ever since they arrived. Which was no small feat in itself. I despise this company and wonder what kind of church they could possibly go to. Details seem redundant at this point on this site. But it was missing parts, bent parts, no instructions, and being led down a 14 day e mail road to nowhere.

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Winton Williams
, US
Jan 02, 2016 10:31 pm EST

This company is a joke. I ordered a go kart for my son Christmas. I paid extra money to have it delivered by Christmas eve.well Christmas eve came and the go cart didn't. Two days before Christmas eve I received a phone call from a lady named sarah. She confirmed that the item would be delivered by Christmas eve.when the item didn't arrive I tried calling the company with no answer I sent them a email. Bout an hour later I got a email from a jeff backer he claimed the order had been canceled do to me calling and fussing about the shipping cost. The thing was I never called anyone. After some back and forth emails Mr backer said he could re ship the item. I told him that i would like a discount were my son Christmas got messed up do to the cart never showing up. He never gave me a straight answer so I told him to not worry about the order.that I would go elsewhere to buy my son a go cart.i was sure there was a company out there would be happy to have my business. A few days later my credit card got billed for the kart that I had told him I didn't want anymore. I had to contact them again to get my money back.if anyone is thinking about buying from this company don't waste your time they are not a stand up company. They messed up my son Christmas. 1-2-16

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Ron Watson
, US
Nov 06, 2015 4:23 pm EST

I too was treated wrong by "christian" Backer. They said I needed to call their customer service to verify an order for a scooter. I had paid by check online. Tried 3x to contact and could not get through. Cancelled the order and the next day they cash my check. Now I have to wait a week to get my refund. BAD COMPANY!

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paboyeeee
, US
Aug 21, 2015 9:25 am EDT

Agree with these complaints, very similar to what I went though, I found a "dealer" near Pittsburgh who wouldn't even take the go kart I had back ...offered me $50.00 for it! Had problems with it from the beginning. Worthless Chinese crap! I ended up donating to our local school for a project just to get it out of my yard.

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Randy Suess
Altadena, US
May 30, 2015 11:28 am EDT

I read and agree with all the reviews- from stalling you until your out of the warranty time to dragging their A$$ and not returning emails to using the Christian family angle as a ploy to bring in customers. Shame on you ! I'm agnostic and I'm offended! FamilyGoCarts.com smells of whiskey and cigarette butts. Don't buy from them !

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ROOKIE BUYER
Trenton, US
Feb 23, 2015 10:10 pm EST
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

If you buy anything from family go karts then you deserve to have your money taken from you. Their products are garbage and Jeff backer is the worst. Their communication sucks along with what they sell. If you read through this complaint board and still give that company your money then the problem is you. BUYER BEWARE!

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tgrissom
Helena, US
Feb 05, 2015 10:36 am EST
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

SATISFIED CUSTOMER...OK when my husband and I started looking for a Go Kart for our 5 yr old grandson, the Kandi 90B was my husband's top choice. He did a good bit of researching first and while reviewing all the negative reviews, we were afraid but DECIDED TO PURCHASE THIS PRODUCT anyway. Because most people only post reviews when they are dissatisfied with a product. We thought out of all the negative reviews, there must have been many purchasers that didn't have a bad experience. At least we hoped! Delivery went as stated and yes there were a little more to assembly than we thought, but put the product together and also checked all the other nuts and bolts for tightness. We did experience some issues with the gas cap not fitting, so sent the email to Familygokarts.com and received a new gas cap immediately. Then to find out it wasn't the gas cap, it was the gas tank. So emailed again and the company mailed us a new gas tank. So I can say, yes we had some issues, but the customer service from the company was excellent in getting our problems corrected. After several rides my husband checks the nuts and bolts and makes sure they are tight. And yes, the muffler had come loose after the bumpy rides and almost fell off. Just need to keep the unit serviced and maintained. I truly feel for all the above customers that had a bad experience but had to post this as a SATISFIED CUSTOMER.
tgrissom

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m,lechner
Cocoa, US
Jan 14, 2015 6:51 pm EST
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

thank you for all the feed back, im glad i checked about this compant and im sooooo sorry that you people got taken. i was going to order the 2300.00 one but no way now and thanks again

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FAMILY GO KARTS
Richmond, US
Sep 03, 2014 2:48 pm EDT
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i bought a 150cc kandi go kart on the 18th of augest
and from day one it took us 6 hours to put it together and then i cound not even ride it bc of a bad carb i had to go and buy a new carb that cost me 83 dollars and then i got to ride it one time the belt broke on it its not even the right belt that go's on it and the title does not even match up with the motor and it has hole in it, , i thought it was soupsed to have holes in it and the finance company said its not to have any holes in it bc its a 2014 jeff then tells me he will send me half of my money back on the carb still no check its still under warnrty and then he tells me on a recourd phone call that kandi will not do didly squat that he is sending me half my money back out of good faith and the belt will be shiped i told him that i want to give it back to him to send me the shipping adress and he said ok still no email and also the spark plug in the motor was used i had to buy another spark plug to YOU and today is sept 3rd still nothing ...DO NOT BUY ANTHING FROM THESE PEOPLE ...YOU WILL BE SORRY YOU EVER DID ...THIS IS CRAZY

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SSSteveSSS
Eau Claire, US
Jun 19, 2014 11:19 am EDT

DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM FAMILY GO KARTS! They are very unreliable and do not back the products that they sell. I purchased a scooter from them, it arrived damaged, they tried everything they could to point fingers at me, at the freight company, etc. I understand that someone has to be responsible for the damage, but in the meantime, they need to take care of the customer who paid for a brand new undamaged scooter. They failed to do so, it took two months before they finally issued a refund...the cost of the scooter, but the shipping was not reimbursed. I will never purchase anything from this company again, customer support was poor and unprofessional. Several emails back and forth without any progress for several weeks. I even emailed the owner, Jeff Backer, , with little assistance. He directed me to Sara Johnson, his customer care person...very unprofessional. A very frustrating and disappointing experience, do not buy from this company. There is a reason they do not belong to the BBB...he has a "cute" little video explaining why, but after the experience I had, it's really placing blame on the BBB for their negative reviews. Their website is nice, it makes them appear to be caring, family oriented, and with christian values...not true...This has nothing to do with the product...a tao tao scooter, it has everything to do with the service, customer experience, the backing of their products, the interaction and professionalism with their customers...POOR.

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jdt from Virginia
Afton, US
May 17, 2014 4:13 pm EDT
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I had to send this out...I posted the comment from jdt in Virginia on May02/2014. I was sent an email asking to rate my support from familygokarts.com on May 9th. I am not sure why they want to ask now as our opinion of the company stays the same. I did say second one in my posted comment. We refused the first one as the warehouse workers called us back to the shop area and ask us to take a look. No pallet, cardboard shipping box all dented in, part of the metal packing frame missing etc., They even lifted it up for us to see underneath the damage that was visual. We told them to leave it on the shipping dock after I took pictures we returned home with no Xmas gift. We sent the pictures, kept calling, emailing etc., Again..don't back down! they can make you mad enough to spit nails! They let us know you should have taken the four wheeler and should not have refused it. We don't live a skip and jump from the warehouse it was sent to..plus we have to work. Well we called every free second/minute of the day/night personally I think they got tired of us calling, emailing so... we finally received number two although packaged right it has been a never ending chore to work on. I was told to take the brand new battery to have it checked out because it would not charge. We did do that and imagine our surprise when we were ask who? went? phone number etc., we took the battery to. Today 5/17/14 my husband as I type this is replacing yet another set of bolts to hold on the muffler...next he is trying to see why the darn thing will not start without moving the kill switch. I hope that they have a chance to read these comments posted..yeah I forgot that is all they'll do!

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jdt from Virginia
Afton, US
May 02, 2014 7:04 pm EDT
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I have to agree with your complaints and we have had the same problems that EVERY complaint has had to date 5/3/14. We do nothing but replace, fix, replace, and fix. We have lost so many nuts and bolts, fix parts, had trouble starting, now the key switch does not work, and I am having to try to find an exhaust bolt again..we have lost all of them. We bought a 125 cc ATV for Christmas 2013 and to date we have worked on it every time it has been taken out! I was so frustrated at Christmas as it would not even start for the grandsons to ride. I placed many emails&calls to familygokarts.com after the first ATV was refused in shipment when we went to
pick it up. We are dealing with the 2nd one now and I guess we are just like all of you...we do not have money sitting around to throw away. Yeah..Jeff Becker was nice when making the sale and the brother too! but, afterwards they are some mean guys. I think they like to get you fired up so you don't push them into doing the right thing and fixing all of these "not good products". Me I am not the yell at ya person but..had to raise the voice lots of times to both of them. Hey guys stick to your guns and I think they can't keep dealing with the negative responses from people. If I would have read comments like these I would have not made the purchase from these guys either. If, they don't want to respond then they hang up on you, ignore your emails, put you off and they want that! DON"T BACK DOWN ! yeah it is easy to sit miles away from them and they think they call the shots..but you all have rights. Just try to contact the right offices in your area and make sure to file the complaints with the BBB, and you have every right to dispute the charges in small claims court and make sure you keep all documentation to back you up! or a lawyer if you need to... I am really surprised this company has had so much in ways of negative complaints that they are allowed to continue to sell, talk to people in nasty manners, and say they are "family concerned".

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TDinDE
Newark, US
Apr 08, 2014 12:50 pm EDT
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We bought a Kandi go kart for our son for Christmas 2013 and we have had so many problems with it in the last 3 months. We've contacted their customer service multiple times and they are no help whatsoever. The first thing that was disappointing was that we specifically asked for yellow and as a second choice blue. When the go kart showed up, it was lime green. Not a deal breaker but it would have been nice if they told us that they couldn't honor our color choices. We brushed that off. What really bugs us is that this thing has so much trouble starting from day one. We had to spend so much money already in repairs - the latest that just happened this past week is the leaking gas line and the battery would not charge. The gas line should be plyable - it was rock hard so that had to be replaced. Before that is the fuse that had to be replaced. It took us forever to figure that one out. Another annoyance is that nuts, bolts and screws constantly fall off of this thing. One day I found 3 of them laying in the driveway! My husband had to tighten each and every little screw to try and keep this thing from falling apart (literally). If I had known this thing was going to cost us so much time, money, frustration and disappointment we would have never purchased it. It really is a hunk of junk. We promised our son he could go out and ride it last Saturday and it wouldn't start up. My husband tried for an hour and took everything apart to try and figure it out. The look of disappointment on our son's face was enough to send us over the edge. My husband had contacted their customer service countless times and they do nothing - they do not call back or try to help you in any way. They were supposed to send us our replacement parts when we first got it such as touch up paint (because the go kart showed up scratched) and also some new wire covers that were missing. They never sent it out to us! Now we are stuck with this crap - major rip-off! Buyers beware! Very unhappy with this company and product!

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Badboy Report
Murrieta, US
Apr 07, 2014 3:49 pm EDT

Wow can anyone tell me where in the heck I can get a good 50cc bike for around 700 dollars at that is not a piece of crap? Or bad company to buy from? I have been looking for a year and EVERY company I have dealt with has been crap and tons of bad reviews. Killer motors ports safterwholerser, powrsports, on and on now this one. geese. I cannot seem to find a good company that sells scooters, bikes. mopeds inexpensively.

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Badboy Report
Murrieta, US
Apr 07, 2014 3:46 pm EDT

wow I have not found one good cheap modped scooter good person or dealer YET. I have not bought one after reading all the bad reviews on these companies.

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ksimonds
Cincinnati, US
Dec 22, 2013 2:37 am EST

Tell the truth and shame the Devil this is NOT a Christian Company! Heartless crooks! This company owe over $300, 000 to vendors several years ago and I feel this is how they make money is by promising one thing then taking your money and doing another! Jeff Backer has anger issues and is a rude pompous jerk. Website guaranteed deliver before Christmas then emailed me day and a half before delivery and said it would not be here but I could drive to Illinois to pick atv up, mind you I live in OHIO. I explained to him that this was my child's Christmas gift and my son is going to be devastated he told me I should have planned accordingly. Jeff Backer was to worried about trying to point blame at others and all customer service went out the window. He even told me "stop busting my chops, " what business owner would EVER say that to a customer after ruining a child's Christmas?!

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12SeekTruth
Daytona Beach, US
Nov 21, 2013 10:49 am EST

I agree with everyone else..DO NOT BUY FROM FAMILY GO KARTS! I purchased atvs from this company for my children and it would not even start. I got jerked around for several months, try this that..try that..before I finally said I wanted my money refunded or a new atv, well lo and behold I'm am outside the the 45 day return period. In my opinion, the delays of fix this or that was merely a stall tactic to get past the 45 days. The more I pressed the issue over the last several months, I got told that the piece of junk is not their responsibility, but is the product maker and I can't get a refund now. I wish I would I would have found this website a while ago..live and learn.

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mart04
New Freedom, US
Aug 30, 2013 5:55 pm EDT

DO NOT BUY FROM THESE PIECE OF CRAP LIARS. Family Go Karts is disgusting. I bought an ATV and the battery was not working from the get go. I contacted Jeff Backer and he told me the battery is not covered under warranty. UMMM HELLO? I would expect to at least get a working battery to start out and if it goes bad over time, so be it. He is such a smug POS and Im sending the junk back. Luckily Im within the 45 day return policy. Yes, I will be out the shipping, but its better then dealing with this terrible company. I wish I would have found this site prior to purchasing from them. Lesson learned.

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tpw3
pelahatchie, US
Jul 26, 2013 4:06 pm EDT

I am one of the suckers that spent almost $2, 000 on a gokart from Jeff Backer and it hasn't ran over 15 minutes at a time without something falling off or tearing up! My sons have wanted a gokart for so long and I had to finance this thing and I am still making payment on it, but it is sitting in my garage broken, where it has been for 2 months! I thought I was spending my hard earned money on something my kids could enjoy and have fun on. Their website says we stand by what we sell...that is a LIE! What comes around, goes around, so Jeff might should watch out, because he is doing alot of families wrong!

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WhatAJOK
Saint Charles, US
Jul 11, 2013 9:49 pm EDT

My sons ATV has only had just a few rides before it too stopped working. The claim 100% money back guaranteed but I have asked 3 times in 3 separate emails for authorization to return it and he just ignores that part of my emails when responding. As of now I am waiting on replacement parts.

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Rabat1228
, US
Jul 03, 2013 10:08 am EDT

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but we have experienced the same problems with familygokarts.com. Do yourself a favor and spend your money somewhere else, we are extremely unhappy with them.

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Amy haring
Purgitsville, US
Apr 24, 2013 9:26 am EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

I have all of the same issues that everyone else is having! My sis year old son is without a birthday present because of this awful, awful company! The ATV I purchased is the 110 cc and has NEVER RAN! There products are JUNK! I am going to try and dispute it with my bank because I'm not paying ship something back that never worked in the first place!

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hollybrooke
Moultrie, US
Apr 17, 2013 9:11 am EDT

I contacted Jeff within 45 days and told him my 4-wheeler would not run and he spent the next 4 months telling me to try this and try that. We finally got fed up and wanted to return it. He sent me an email this morning and said my 45 days were up. My daughter rode this thing for 3 weeks and now it does nothing. There should be a Lemon Law for anything over $500. I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS COMPANY. I have wasted $900. It's like my daughter didn't get a Christmas present.

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railroad5005
raceland, US
Mar 27, 2013 2:29 pm EDT

I bought a kandi 90b gokart and it has been nothing but trouble from the start. The brakes didnt last three rides and for every hour it is used I have to spend at least an hour fixing it. If you do buy one you better locktite everything, becuase everytime you use it something will vibrate off. Then if you do need something sent to you good luck. They give you the runaround and you can forget customer service! they wont talk to you unless your wanting to buy something. You have to email everything and your lucky if they will respond to you. Save your money and buy a brand name product that will last and has a good reputation.

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Unhappy single mother
Dalzell, US
Mar 20, 2013 3:17 pm EDT

I wish I found this page and did more research before I bought my son gokart. We could not get it crank becuase the harness wire obviously has a shortage in it so we had to hold it in order to crank it. While my son was riding it after finanally getting it crank, the damn muffler fell off. I'm now getting the run around from the comapny in regards to getting this matter taken care of. I've done everything that they asked from sending emails, pictures, etc. I'm still waiting on them to let me know what their going to do. I'm a single parent and can not afford to throw away money on anything. I trusted these people with my money and believed in them and their product. I will not advise anyone to buy anything from these people. They are a rip off!

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Deshawn1
, US
Dec 28, 2012 6:27 am EST

DO NOT BUY FROM THIS COMPANY! Jeff won't help u at all! 4 wheelers are trash! Brought my son one for Christmas an it ain't last 30 mins! They don't honor any warren ties !

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tdsmithers
Reading, US
Dec 21, 2012 9:16 am EST

DO NOT BUY FROM THIS COMPANY! Jeff will tell you anything you want to hear until he gets your money. Then you are SOL after that! STAY AWAY!

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cbhh0708
, US
Jul 14, 2012 2:16 pm EDT

Well I was gonna get my 4yr old son a 4wheeler from here but after reading nothing but bad complaints I think I will keep looking.

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Shirley Upthegrove CEO
Port Austin, US
May 01, 2012 1:10 pm EDT

I own Family-Go-Karts, an amusement park in Port Austin, MI. I sure hope no one will think we are affiliated with this co. that sells go carts. We do not sell carts, only tickets to ride them. Come join us and have some fun.

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jerry edd
townville, US
Apr 17, 2012 9:38 am EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

i bought 2- wheelers from these people...biggest pieces of ### on this planet...the 4 wheelersare as well.they do not return phone calls they will do nothing after they get your money.if anyone is interested in filing a class action lawsuit please contact me @ed3170@gmail.com...these people must be held accountable for the c*** they sell...i have had nothing but problems since day one...

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mike gilbert
Pleasant Hill, US
Feb 15, 2011 6:14 am EST

I bought my 31/2 yr. old son the 110cc go kart last april 2010 with the remote start, it started out to work fine then the remote start quit and then it started to c*** out at accelleration, the rear disc brake bolt came loose so the brakes didn't work so I had to mickey rig with a bolt that didn't fit because some of these parts are from another world. The gas cap was pooring out gas, the axle nuts were sent wrong they gave me regular nuts rather than the castle nuts with cotter keys those came loose a couple of times. So I emailed jeff about the problems he responded most of my emails but did nothing about it. So since then I bought a new carb and am looking to buy a gas tank that will fit but looks impossible. My poor son always ask is my gokart running today and I have to til him I'm working on it, it is very disappointing.

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pcd1
lyme, US
Nov 28, 2010 11:31 am EST

OMG, I have had the worst trouble with the kart I purchased for my son. It arrived and immediately was in need of repair. There were were stripped threads that needed repair before I could even assemble it. After assembly it would hardly run or keep a charge on the battery. It stopped running after about 30 minutes of use. I have had it to the shop many times for repair. No one even wants to work on it. I had leaking gas tanks, stripped threads, loose wires, poor running and many other issues. All repairs at my expense.
We have owned the Kart for 6 months and it has been used about 3 times. I could not even start it for the first three months.
I have also called the BBB and have had terrible response from the Jeff Becker and the rest of the comp. They will not even take my attorneys calls.
I would not ever recommend buying anything from these people. I think I am going to burn it and ship back to them.

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robw4
ft Lewis, US
Jul 11, 2010 5:47 pm EDT

Caution, Dont sign libabilty statement, I have had this kart for about a year, within first 2 weeks gas tank leak s on engine, gas and heat not good, ask bout replacement parts within warranty time frame never happen, After 1 month Brake caliber fell off it would not stop. This goKarts is a death trap DO NOT RECOMMEND FOR ANYONE. This by far the worst piece of Sh-- Ever If you love your kids and don't want them to get hurt do not buy from these people. religious I dont think so

Rob

P.S. The brake caliber fell off a second time