BES Utilities review: mis-sold energy contract & prices 296

Broker gave my brother a price of 2.83 pence per KWH for gas services on a fixed contract, in Feb 2008. That was worked out to be around £200 savings yearly compared to the current provider Eon. After six months once he had forgotten everything about the contract BES come and take over Gas supply at 4.45 pence per KWH telling him that he never signed a fixed price deal. The lease changed hands on 1/1/2009 and I, the new lease holder decided to go with another provider as BES were giving silly prices. Then took ages to authorise the change. On 11th March 2009 Npower took charge of gas supply. BES sent a bill of £4900 for just over 2 months gas supply at a extortion rate of 7 pence per KWH, their out of contract price. This was also due to 1000 meter units had been added to my account rather than my brothers. on 31/12/2008 meter readings were 8637 but BES had billed me from 7637. blaming it on my brother that he gave us the last readings. OK if he did then why nearly £900 extra that was taken out of his bank via direct debits had not been refunded. Me & my brother called them, emailed them a lot, explained everything but they would not budge. One other thing BES did was without asking us the final readings in March when Npower took over the gas supply agreed with Npower, a meter reading of 8413. Npower charged us from this reading as well which is already paid. Upon contacting BES that the final readings in March were 9250 and they should send us the right bills and also they must contact Npower to also change the readings to 9250, what they did was changed their final reading in March from 8413 to 9250 & did not correspond with Npower, and didn't change the start reading to 8637 from 7637. So the bill was also up to final readings of 9250 (£4900). Despite contacting them on many times all they were interested in was their money. So all their correspondence was ignored. Then for 4 years there was no correspondence at all until end of Jan this year (2015). This was a letter from Debt Agency who upon contacting just wanted the money which was nearly £6000 including their fees. Now they have send county court summons for an amount of nearly £7500. I aim to fight this and would require advice & support from the victims of BES SCAMS. Please do advice to what I should do now.
Thankx

BEWARE ALL .. Please ignore all calls from commercial reduction services I am being harassed daily by this company saying I am out of contract with my current energy supplier even though I have spoke to my current supplier and I am still in contract until next year !

Be careful of 'Energy Search' and 'Commercial Reduction Services' as Neil says they are both owned by Andy Pilley's friends but realistically are both managed by Lee Qualter, Stacey Irving, Michelle Davidson and Andy Pilley. The are both registered to a London address (as are a number of Andy Pilley's other companies) but both operate out of Darwin Court, Bispham, Blackpool. The sales techniques are dodgy with using different names to confuse customers e.g. 'The registrations Department', 'Meter Registrations Department' or even supplier names. They get their data from lots of different sources but everything is provided to both 'companies' and called by a combination of automated diallers and teams manually dialling.

So glad I found this thread!

I too have been plagued by Utility services, they actually told me to avoid BES?
Instead they pushed a supplier called OPUS energy :|
When I declined, they got aggressive !

The guy on the phone was called 'peter' and spoke with a strong Manchester accent..
he gave me a 0161 number to call them back on and would not take no from me either!:(

I've had days and days of calls pushing OPUS ever since... AVOID the dodgy mancunion 'Peter' at ALL costs!

Today, Monday 30 March 2015, I received a phone call purporting to be from "Utility Services." The female caller stated that they had been notified that I had recently taken responsibility for my address and thereby, the utilities. I explained that i had resided at the address for 5 years but that I was building an extension to house by new B&B business. I also informed her that i had replaced my single phase electricity supply to three phase. She sounded concerned and asked that I open the meter box and supply the meter number and reading. She tut-tutted and stated that she was of the opinion that the wrong type of meter had been installed. (It is only subsequently that I realised that I have provided my meter details and reading to a complete stranger) Before terminating the call, this representative of "Utility Services" stated that she needed to make some enquiries. Some hours later, this female phoned back and asked whether she could pass me through to a colleague in the Registration Dept. The colleague informed me that Business supply was much cheaper and that a company called BES is the cheapest in the industry. he quoted figures, stating that my existing supplier, Scottish Power could only offer 61.85 pence per day and 19.11 pence per unit whilst BES could offer 18.70 pence per day and 13 pence per unit. (This made little sense to me but sounded impressive) I reinforced the fact that my usage was domestic only as my business was not trading, indeed my premises had not been built. I received reassurance that BES would be happy to take me on as a business customer. He commenced a rapid fire registration procedure. Before I new it, I had supplied my bank details and date of birth. I somehow became disconcerted by the process and whilst he continued to ramble, I googled BES, finding this website. I interrupted the rep, telling him of the complaints to which he responded in a somewhat petulant manner that the Big 6 also received similar complaints. He referred me to his supervisor, Sean. Sean was equally as fast talking as the original rep. I felt he was somewhat condescending in telling me that I should have no concerns as he was "...not trying to sell (me) a mortgage" I was patched back to the registration officer, who recommenced the the registration from the beginning. I again halted proceedings and was again referred to the same supervisor. This time, when I expressed concern about not having heard of BES, he asked me, "Have you heard of Blackpool?" I responded to the affirmative. He then told me that BES supplied the illuminations. Surreal ! On my third run through the registration, I actually had to terminate the call as it was brutally apparent that this company did not intend to take "No" for an answer. He immediately phoned back whereupon I told him that I did not wish to switch. Several hours later, I received a call from a different representative of Utility Services. I told him that I was not pleased with the manner of selling utilised by his company. He told me that it would be in my interests to hurry as I was now "On an emergency tariff." At this stage my temper broke and I swore at the caller. He replied by Singing (yes...singing) "Enjoy your emergency tariff."
I asked my wife to inform our existing supplier Scottish Power of the circumstances. Scottish power assured us that there was no such thing as an emergency tariff. They have also promised to place an alert on our account to ensure BES cannot take over as our supplier.
I consider that my experiences at the hand of Utility Services was horrible in the extreme and sincerely hope they will desist from chasing me as a prospective customer. I regret swearing but in my defence, I feel i was provoked.

Oh god, I've just read all of these and I feel like Im going to have aheart attack!
I have managed to get myself duped into a 3 year contract with BES for gas and electricity and we have been threatened with disconnection 3 times already within 6 months and charged random amounts via direct debit . They recently tried to take £1100 out within 20 days as well as us having paid an extra £250 by debit card and so we cancelled our direct debit and they have just told us that it is in the contract that we'll pay 40% more for our energy now!
I m really up for a protest outside their offices - let's do it - Im fed up with being conned - the government is doing nothing to help small businesses at all.

Oh Dear oh Deary me

P.S you may also note that Mr Martindale as admitted that Commercial Power Ltd gives his 'company' data - slightly worrying to any broker that has previously used Commercial Power as an aggregator, no?

Here we go ladies and gentleman. I hope you can see the attached images?

So Natalie Seddon. She is friends (on Facebook) with Lee Qualter/Goulding AND Michell Davidson.

So she works for Commercial Reduction Services, but is clearly friends with owner of rival brokerage Commercial Energy Lee Goulding/Qualter... BUT also knows owner of BES Michelle Davison (Pilley's sister)...

Of course all of these companies are claimed by Andy Pilley as being 'independent' - but as the (hopefully attached) evidence shows, you can draw your own conclusions.

I hear today that the compliance team at Commercial Power have nothing to do as all the call recordings have disappeared. Apparently this is due to an 'IT' issue hmmmm

Hi Surbir,

Unfortunately as evidence proves, your complaint is one of many several hundred (getting on for thousand) about these seemingly intertwined companies...

Commercial Reduction Services is owned by Darren Martindale whose business partner is Andy Pilley (also owner of BES)... Pilley denies an involvement in what he refers to as 'third party' brokers - but (until recently, as I pointed it out) was referred to as a "business partner" on the Commercial Reduction Services page; a page which has since been removed.

Keep on at BES, Joel Chapman at BES usually is the man... He has release all of the other contracts of the people I've sent his way (the number of which is mounting up).

I hope that helps?

Hi BES Utilities Online Team

I have emailed my details over to that email address. I created a thread here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5195107

May be your colleague or yourself monitoring this forum has looked into this and asked me to send the details.

Now I am awaiting the cancellation of this invalid contract. Hopefully it gets done soon.

Kind regards
Surbir

Dear Surbir

We are keen to look into this - If you could send your details to forums@besutilities.co.uk then our dedicated online team will investigate your complaint and contact you as a matter of urgency.

We hope to hear from you soon.

Regards,

BES Utilities Online Team

HI All

I have just been mis-sold a BES contract through Commercial Reductions, Natalie Seddon (Natalie.Seddon@commercialreduction.co.uk). She kept on calling me everyday to promise a better electricity rate. She put me in a conference call saying its one of her colleagues to record a quotation request. Apparently that was BES on the other end recording the conversation. Natalie confirmed this is merely a formality to get me a quotation from one of the utility suppliers and that I should confirm all aspects of this initial quotation at this stage to get a better price to follow on. I called her the next day confirming that I am able to get better price from another company already and she said that's not a problem, once the termination is confirmed they will get me a better rate.

Natalie asked me to apply for Termination from my existing provider British Gas which I did and she called me everyday until I received that. As soon as I forwarded the termination email, all calls stopped and I received a Contract email from BES with 5 Years term. I have already called British Gas to cancel the termination and extended the contract for one more year.

Current contract ends in Mid June. I called BES to cancel this contract because I was mis-sold, no help what so ever and a rude response stating why did I agreed to it in the first place. I explained that the the information provided by the agency was incorrect and they duped us into this but they would not listen.

She said a senior member of the team will be in touch in the next 48 hours. I told her I am going to contact the ombudsman as well.

What can I do any help please?

Hi Shelly! No time no speak!

It is a criminal offense under Section 55 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to do exactly what Proud2BeBES has done. Whoops - which is probably why they backfooted and claimed that in actual fact they no longer work for BES..

The Police will trace the IP address back and will be able to trace down to the actual computer that made the comment. I'm running a sweepstake on that one - drop me a message!

I should say for the record that the victim asked me to help her, so I duly and earnestly contacted BES directly to complain on her behalf... I had an email back from 'Call me Stephen' who (of course) denied that BES or Mr Pilley were involved, and came across entirely unregrettable that this has occurred, BES nor Mr Pilley have offered to assist or investigate who this may be despite the awful false and defamatory comments made and exposure of personal details (which most probably came from BES employment records). 'Call me Stephen' also decided to claim I was touting myself as a solicitor and explained under 1974 Solicitors Act (yawn) I could not do this with any legal qualifications and accused me of a criminal offense myself... This is despite not knowing whether I have any legal qualifications or not, and clearly he has obviously never heard of a McKenzie friend.

I've just had a thought. If Proud2BeBES once worked at BES but now admits that they no longer work there perhaps it is the username for Ben Jones, recently departed former CEO?
Or they could always post their real name to clear up any possible confusion?

So ladies and gentlemen. If you've just arrived at this thread here you have it;

- Proud2BeBES has found someone that annoys them, so they've decided to put this person's details all over the internet... Imagine if a customer accidentally annoys that employee - do you fancy your personal details published on the internet?

- Proud2BeBES then states "my management" which implies beyond doubt they work at BES. Then in a latter comment from them perversely claims they've left... So this employee clearly can't tell the truth, or is very good at making one situation look very much like another.

- 'Dominic' then uses the phrase "rival broker" despite the fact Mr Pilley has always maintained he "has no control over their [brokers] sales forces", which further points to clear confusion between what Mr Pilley claims he does or doesn't do and what his employees obviously believe he does.

So ladies and gentlemen if you want to have your businesses' hard earned cash in the trusted hands of individuals that behave like this then BES is the company for you!

Proud2BeBES and Dominic you carry on! You'll have BES shut down before Ofgem finish their investigation at this rate!

Let's be clear and logical...

Dominic you describe barney12345 as a "rival broker"?

This would take the natural implication that BES and/or Mr Pilley run a brokerage. Thank you for clearing up what Mr Pilley has spent all these years lying through his teeth denying, you really are an asset to BES!

How wrong can someone be Proud2BeBES, I do know Kelly as we did work together at BES .
Thank you for putting her address up on here as I have printed it and knocked on a few doors on her street and managed to deliver it to her today.
To said she was shocked to see me was an understatement as its been over 2 years, and even more so when she read what has been put up on here by yourself.
She is taking legal advice on this matter.
Please can you clarify if you actually do work for BES as in your first comment or as in your second comment you say you don't ?
Are we a bit confused ?

Proud2BeBES I am surprised that you only quoted this yesterday "I am one of the several hundred staff who work for Andy and Michelle and am disgusted at the ongoing lies and personal abuse being aimed at BES...I have a family to support and bills to pay and intend to give you plenty back if you continue to attempt to cause problems for the co I work for.". How come that you now say that you no longer work for BES anymore? How quickly you retracted this statement and now say that you no longer work for BES anymore. You also went on to give out personal details of an ex-employee. My heart goes out to the young lady that you tried desperately to discriminate against. So you work for BES and then a few hours later you don't? If it was such a good career path and company to work for can you fill us in on why you no longer work there? Interesting really.

Hi Dominic, thank you for your support.
I don’t in fact work for BES anymore so I can’t quite comment on how it affects people or morale there. The reason behind my outburst was that I still do have friends there and I personally was treated very well during my employment.
It’s both angering and upsetting to see a small group of people slate what is a very good company and career path for most, with an aim to make a quick few quid off of this website by criticising BES.

Even more so when it’s to enhance their own business or show off in front of their pals. Thanks again for your support Dominic – It’s good to see that someone else has an understanding of the other side to the story.

I disagree with you Dominic. The UIA are there to represent independent brokers who adhere to standard practice and fairness and would not benefit financially as a result of the criticisms of BES on this and other forums. The are organisations such as the UIA and people who help on these forums. Perhaps you would like share with the forum your connection with BES and how you find yourself on a complaints forum regarding BES if you have no complaint about them? Perhaps also proudtobeBES will post their full name and address so that they can be challenged on their comments?

Very interesting proud2beBES, it's refreshing to see pro-BES updates appear within this constant negativity. Can I ask if there are others within the company that feel the same as you and why you decided to comment?

On the whole, it is indeed wrong and very unethical that, not only a previous employee, but now a rival should resort to almost abusing an industry competitor online (under 2 different usernames!).

barney12345 (or should I say Kelly?), all this to achieve better results for your own business as a rival utility broker? Shame on you! This website is rarely used for people with actual complaints and especially this thread is being used more and more as an opportunity for rival brokers and the UIA to benefit from criticising BES.

Proud2beBES I look forward to your response and thank you for sharing.

I am sure that BES would be so proud of that posting and your continued loyalty to them but maybe you should have checked with your management team before you made this post which has been documented by many people even if it is removed. However I trust that you have the authority from BES to post data that should be protected on any one individual. I find it very disturbing that not only have you accused someone of being a drug addict and named them when that person has nothing to do with BES but you have also been vindictive enough to post a ladies name and personal home address whilst not disclosing your name and address for everyone on this forum to see. The ongoing Ofgem investigation will presumably either clear BES of any wrong doing or highlight areas of concern and failing ('minor tweaks' to procedures as Ben Jones stated previously before he felt the need to leave after only 6 months in post).

Well done. You've just breached the Data Protection Act revealing the personal address of an ex-employee. Can you prove that these posters are who you allege? Otherwise that is highly defamatory and if there is a broker named Kelly Bailey from the address you allege, she has every right to pursue you under the Data Protection Act and for Libel.

As far as I'm concerned. I set up my first business at 17, however I am community minded and hate to see business and lives destroyed so I'm prepared to fight BES, and they really don't like it! Big London law firms are looking at your employer and laughing!

I've spoken to the UIA once, for the record.

With the greatest of respect, I cannot see how you can claim BES have their reputation any worse than you claim. Perhaps as an insider you can explain the reasons why Mr Jones left on Tuesday after 6 months? Or explain why Ofgem are investigating?

As I've already asked Mr Pilley's lawyer, are you claiming there is a mass conspiracy here? Presumably this mass conspiracy goes as far as Ofgem, the BBC, Ofcomm, Daily Mail, Telegraph, This is Money, Money Saving Expert and countless others.

Do let us know!

Firstly let me say my management have no idea I am making this post.
I am one of the several hundred staff who work for Andy and Michelle and am disgusted at the ongoing lies and personal abuse being aimed at BES and the people who run it by Neiluk and Kelly Bailey of Westmoreland Ave, Blackpool.
Bes is a huge success story which is very well organised and compliant.
Kelly is posting as ex Bes employee and Barney 12345, we know this Kelly as you have told colleagues personally.
Kelly is a a rival utility broker who has a financial motive for attempting damage Bes.
You clearly have a very short memory Kelly as my bosses where very good to you helping you no end when your partner Peter Watson relapsed back into his heroin and crack cocaine addiction.
Peter used to work for Commercial Power For a long time but sadly once an addict always an addict eh?
I have a family to support and bills to pay and intend to give you plenty back if you continue to attempt to cause problems for the co I work for.
Your mate Nieluk is a weirdo he has posted hundreds of times over the last few months each and every time trying to damage Bes to impress his friends at the UIA.
The Internet makes freaks like him feel important in life when sadly they are far from it.

Or he knows something that they don't ...I wonder how Ofgem are getting on
Or he doesn't want on his CV that he has worked for the company ...
That'll mean that Mr Pilleys house will be up to let, I wonder if he's going to put it up through his lettings company AJ Lettings, made you who would want to live on the same road as his sister Managing Director of BES Michelle Davidson

How awful! Perhaps he was increasingly concerned about the number of complaint letters it seems the Postman that delivers to BES has been steeling? Or maybe he just has a conscience...

Just heard through the Grape Vine that Ben Jones CEO has handed in his notice and now left BES, he didn't last long!

Dear Colestrong

We're sorry to learn you are having some problems resolving your complaint and would be keen to investigate. If you could send your details to forums@besutilities.co.uk, a member of our dedicated online team will contact you and try to work towards a resolution with you.

Regards

BES Utilities

Hi guys thank you for all your help. Neil I will look through the thread and find your email as any further help would be most. Still awaiting any info at all from them, still no bill, or direct debit! I have requested the recordings via a headed letter to which I am awaiting a response, although I'm assuming there will be no info on them that will be helpful to us (IE all the lies that were told). I will ask (if I ever hear from them) info on the broker, although I have given up trying to call as I can never get through.

Cameron1812
You must be one of the only customers that is happy with your Gas Contract on the Budget Plan, were they take the AQ and split it over 12 monthly equal installations, did you know that you are actually billed to the ALT AQ, (alternative AQ) which is between 15% to 30% higher and that u never fall in line with the plan cos how could you when greedy dishonest people are charging you more ...

Colestrong,
Call BES and ask to were they obtained the read which was given to EON, if you haven't given a read they will have estimated the read also known as a deemed read, ask for them to arrange a SAR, (shipper agreed read) with elec metering team.
To request a copy for the verbal contract this needs to be sent in on letter headed paper or I think you can still request it in an email as long as its the one they have on file. Ask for which broker sent in the contract this will be on the last screen on CRM, do be fobbed off when they say they dont have the information as they do ask them to print screen the page and send it to you .
If it has come from Darwin Court at Bispham its Pilleys bestest buddy, Lee Goulding/Qualter and all the calls are recorded there, but dont hold your breath getting hold of it, I wonder if Ofgem are aware that the units down on Darwin Court say they are occupied BES in which case Ofgem can just walk straight in, id love to be a fly on the wall if that happens lol

Hi Colestrong,

What you describe is exactly what has been happening. I've sort of alluded to it in my previous post, but the short of it is that an Aggregator is a middle man between the broker and supplier.

Andy Pilley owns both a Supplier (BES) and an Aggregator (Commercial Power), and conveniently his best mates Darren Martindale and Lee Qualter/Goulding own brokerages. Quite clearly (and as a number of brokers will testify), Commercial Power is (against the Data Protection Act) providing details of customers and brokers to Martindale and Goulding/Qualter's companies whose sales teams then call pretending to be from that brokerage. Or in short, it's misrepresentation and fraud.

Sorry if I repeat myself as per my last post. In short, it is not only the customers who are being scammed, but the brokers are too. Then when it all falls apart and the customer realises they have been scammed, BES/Commercial Power will then give the actual broker's details out who obviously know nothing about the contract. The brokers are equally as pissed off as the customers, if not more.

This was mentioned as per Southern Mr P's post on the Radio 5 Live podcast, and of course was attempted to be brushed under the carpet by 'call me Stephen'; Pilley's lawyer.

I would strongly advise dropping me a private message, I can send you the details of someone who can help you, and they also would like to hear from the broker, who no doubt is angry their name has been used?

In the meantime, I would advise you write to BES FAO Joel Chapman and tell him you want out of the contract. He will inevitably magic a 'gesture of good will' out of the bag and take you out of any implied contract. EON are well aware of this scam, and if you speak to the right person should be able to help you?

It sounds like you've had some advise from the UIA who are excellent at advising you at the points of law/SLC's - but BES don't really care nor abide by them, hence the Ofgem investigation. I'm afraid the only way for you to get justice in this case is to have a Judge look at the case, since as you've correctly identified BES will ignore complaints...

I would say you have reasonable grounds for a Court Case against BES to (A) get yourself out of the contract; and (B) not pay any bills - especially if your broker is prepared to issue a statement to say their name has been used fraudulently.

My husband and I took on a new pub tenancy in November and agreed to be contacted by a broker recommended to us (they are listed with UIA) a few days later we received a call and believed it to be this brokerage company. I albeit stupidly agreed to a contract with BES. We later received an email from the initial broker and of course panicked. I tried to call BES but could never get through, however I did receive a call a week later from someone called Lisa whom I told we had not received the information email as promised or anything else and so would like to terminate the agreement (as I had been told I could within 2weeks) to which she replied OK and disconnected the call. Our new broker told us not to worry as he had spoken to E. On and expressly instructed them NOT to pass control to BES.
We then received a letter and email in late Nov welcoming us to BES, and that our supply would be changed over and they would call for our meter readings, they never did. We didn't take any action we assumed (again stupidly) that they were trying to scare us and forwarded it to our broker. We then found out after much digging our supply was with BES and not E. On and there was nothing they could do except point us toward UIA! I have never been able to get through on the phone, only had 1 reply to an email sent by my husband asking to cancel the contract, and that stated that complaints would only be responded to if on signed (by me as I took out the contract) headed paper or from the registered email address (which incidentally it was!?!?). I sent a signed for registered letter in December which got a response in January stating they would not cancel, but have added my husband to the details. I am now sending another registered letter tomorrow asking for their customer services manager to call us and asked for copies of both the recordings from the broker and comfort call. I have also pointed out the following
1) we never received confirmation of the contract terms and conditions which were promised
2) they never called for our meter readings and I could never get through to call and emails were ignored
3) we received a £900 final bill from e.on for 3weeks. Which is now in dispute as they were given the meter readings by BES, who have never had access to the property or called for these readings.
4) an independent contractor turned up to take our readings on Tuesday but had no ID or proof he was from BES and so we turned him away as we were not told anyone would come.
5) since the start of our contract we have had nothing from them, no bill, no calls, other than the welcome letter and reply to complaint and a generic email saying someone would get back to us, but never did.

Since everyone else seems to have been hounded by calls and received instant bills I am wondering what is going to happen. And petrified of a very very large bill. Any further advice would be greatly appreciated, as I am so sad that so many people have lost their businesses and savings and this should not be allowed to continue!

I think part of the issue here is that it's not just the customers that are being scammed. We've heard from two brokers that have complained the contracts they used to put through aggregator (middle man) Commercial Power have been taken by BES several months before renewal.

The broker's customers have claimed that before their current contracts were up for renewal they had calls from what they believed to be their broker - despite the broker stating no such call has been made. Ie someone somewhere is pretending to be the customer's broker and signing them into crippling BES contracts.

It is for this reason that many legitimate brokers now refuse to use Commercial Power as it seems data is being passed to third parties (my suspicion being Lee Goulding/Qualter's mysterious office), who then call claiming to be from the customer's usual broker, which is misrepresentation at best.

Hi i am new to this forum but as many of you have, i suffered the same fate at the hand of BES a few years ago, i was lucky enough to get the contracts over turned by ofgem, and moneys returned to us from BES and original contracts re-instated with E-on our original power supplier after a lengthy and sustained protest buy ourselves at there treatment and the underhanded way they run there bussiness, this included letters to them, letter to the ombudsmen and a slot on radio 5 live consumer program trying to expose BES. Good news is i just had a call from North East Trading standards who would like to come and see me in the next week or so as they are preparing a case agents BES, So at last hopefully someone with some real power will do something constructive to stop this. I've book marked you now and if anything comes to light i'll let you all know.

It may interest those who received deformation letters from the law firm Harrison Drury that BES/Andy Pilley no longer use them as solicitors. It would appear they are back with Bill Lister (who changes his christian name to Stephen for BES-related cases) to dig around to find out whether they are about to be sued or not... No doubt under some desperation.

I agree a16srm that it seems that the thread has been rubbished somewhat. I also disagree that we take it off the public platform. if this is not public then we are not helping anyone else when they come on to this thread who feel that they may have been mis-sold. After all if this did not exist none of us would be none the wiser would we? I am sure that some also share relevant information off the public platform when needs be. Back to reality I am also noting lots of other disgruntled customers on other forums still complaining about BES. It does seem that the saga for BES continues.

I've just read through of the older posts and if it helps I know for sure Neil is not a broker or a troll. Although a little keen at times he only wants to help. Its a shame that most of this thread has become a mud slinging session. Come on everyone keep it real:-)