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Northern Leasing Systems  -  do not do business with this company!

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6:00 am
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In 2001 I leased a credit card terminal from Northern Leasing Systems. They never sent anyone out to program it even after I contacted them. Frustrated with waiting, I just gave up and told them I wanted to cancel the contract and give back the equipment. I was told I couldn't - I was obligated to a four-year contract. They continued billing me every month (even though I was not using their services). After they threatened to sue me, I ended up paying a total of $1,200 for a credit card terminal that never got taken out of the box.! To add insult to injury, I recently discovered they put a blemish on my credit report claiming I still owe them over $200.

I recently started another business and decided to use my terminal (with another credit card processing company) and was told by this other company that I couldn't use the terminal because it was still under lease with Northern Leasing Systems.

It's been almost SEVEN years since I signed that contract and this company still continues to give me grief. They are even holding my terminal hostage so I can't use it anywhere else. I don't understand why they are still in business? They should be shut down and prosecuted for fraud. I am urging other consumers - DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THIS COMPANY!


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Add a comment
Mar 23, 2016 7:09 pm

I leased a credit card machine from this company nineteen years ago. When my store closed way back then, I returned the machine to them. They still send me the bill marked as a Final Demand and threaten to sue me.

I will never ever give them a dime, they charged off this amount, that I did not owe in the first place, twelve years ago but keep sending me these threats.

Nov 11, 2015 12:24 pm

We have just recently been duped by Northern Leasing and Alpine Payment Systems in Vancouver, Wa. We told their salesperson that we do not even see our customers credit cards and therefore did not need a POS machine. We are a manufacturing plant that sells all over the country and do not see customers in person. Somehow he came in when we were very busy and the boss signed the paperwork with the belief, (words from the salesman for Alpine), that he could get nothing started until he got a copy of the boss's id. He has never gotten that but we have a machine still sitting in the box that we will never use. And, apparently, a 5 year non-cancellable lease that we did not know about either. Yes, our fault for not reading all the paperwork but as I said we did not believe it could get started without the id. Now I am reading that so many other people have still been being charged even after the lease was done...cannot believe that they can get away with it for so long. Not sure what kind of recourse we may have but it doesn't sound like much...very frustrated. I have written to the BBB about both companies but I doubt that will do any good. The only thing I can think of is to just warn as many people as possible NOT to use either of these companies. We are not using Alpine for credit card processing but still are stuck with the lease and the machine we won't use. I will also take it to social media to hopefully warn others before they get duped also! If anyone sees anything on Facebook or twitter about this please share so as many people as possible can be warned!

Nov 09, 2015 9:38 am

I really wonder if there's anything we can do to stop this company from doing this business in this way? Anybody knows?

Nov 08, 2015 9:06 am
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

An addendum...
Salesman did not give me a copy of the 24-month lease sheet. Instead, he came a couple of days later with a sheet with the numbers "48" at the top. Said that was lease was for 24 months. I stupidly trusted him and, in fact, ended up with a 48-month lease. My rate was $125/mo.
I could go on and on, but my story really isn't that much different than the others, with the exception of the three accounts.

Nov 08, 2015 8:57 am
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

I was a small business owner in NH. Got caught up with a perfect hustler...moved into community, put child in local school, became everyone's best friend, etc. He also spent a lot of time at town hall, i.e., commission meetings and the like. (Presumably, to get the status of local small businesses.)
My story re: NLC is the SAME as everyone else's - told I could rent POS for 24 MONTHS, provided one-page application, would not let me copy information, etc. (You've all read this before.) A few months later, while checking my bank statements, I REALIZED HE HAD OPENED UP THREE ACCOUNTS for the CC machine. I was hemorrhaging $$$ and went to the bank to put a stop to all my electronic payments. (Fortunately, this had been happening for a few months only - I caught on early but still too late.) I closed the business about 6 months after signing up with these thieves. I ended up being squeezed for $6000+ (my husband paid it - he was the "personal guaranty" signer).

Mar 16, 2015 8:15 am
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Please add me also for the list of victim from Northern Leasing's business misconducts.
My email add. is [email protected]

Mar 16, 2015 8:13 am
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Does anyone know how to stop this company's bad business behavior and get eventually payback of their charges?

Mar 16, 2015 8:10 am
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Northern Leasing sneakily added 4 year no cancellation contract for terminal device leasing by 3rd party company Transnational Bancard merchant company. All contract documents were prepared by Transnational Bankcard and asked me to sign off after his verbal explanation. In November and December 2012, I found their service had been charged unreasonable amount of fees and they refund some money back after my complaint. I decided discontinuing their service and moving to the other company who shows their competitive service. In January 2013, I requested service cancellation to Transnational Bancard Inc including any other contracts that they created including contracts like gift card and Northern Leasing system. In the beginning Transnational denied cancellation with no early termination fee that they requested me. However, by proving document record for no early termination penalty fee, Transnational Bancard Inc terminated their service without charging early termination fee. I found that Northern Leasing system continuously tanking fee $30.25 out of my account every month even after cancellation of service through Transnational Bancard Inc. When I disputed about the charge due to termination service with Transnational Bancard Inc, they denied because it's not their service. when I disputed to Northern Leasing system, they also denied because the contract was made by Transnational Bancard Inc that is still effective. Each party has been avoided its responsibility and because of contract-made-by-3rd-party they still collect money from my account for next few years although we don't use their service. I think that's what they did on purpose.

Mar 24, 2013 4:12 am
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

I need your help! To this last post in Spokane. Email me please
[email protected]

Mar 22, 2013 11:39 pm
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

I need help and support. Another Victim!
[email protected]

Mar 22, 2013 11:27 pm
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Can someone that has info for leagal authorities already involved email me...? Need to add to it.
[email protected]

Aug 23, 2012 7:58 am
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

I agree with my friend. I am having now same thing happening. What should i do?
Please advice me. I agree with u that they need to shut down .

Aug 18, 2012 8:53 am

DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THIS COMPANY! We had a very long five year contract with them. They were very unprofessional to deal with. They will charge you $4.95 for equipment insurance, which there is a lawsuit against them for this. After five long years and many heated discussions with their customer service reps, I paid the account off in 1/2012. In May, 2012, $125 was taken out of my account because I never paid the "$25 maintenance fee" which they say is stated in the contract. When I called in January for the payoff figure, never was I informed about the $125 due. You would think that it would show up on my account. When I called and told them I was never told about the fee, i was told "if you don't ask, we won't tell you". I filed a complaint with the BBB. NL's reply was legal mumbo jumbo and wouldn't reimburse my money. The best thing to do is when you pay off your account, close the checking account immediately, or pay the $35 for the bank to no longer accept their withdrawals. Had I not been so stupid as to believe they wouldn't try to take out any more money I would have paid the $35 since I had loose ends to clear up before closing the account. They harass you when you're one day late on a payment. They charge you $5 to send you a statement if you don't set up an automatic withdrawal. I REPEAT DO NOT DO ANY BUSINESS WITH THIS COMPANY!

Mar 31, 2012 7:15 pm

they suck

Oct 13, 2011 9:52 am

What are the steps to STOP this company from taking anymore money? I already have bad credit, so thats really not an issue anymore. Who am I complaining to? Do I just close my bank account and change my number? I just hooked up with this company 2 months ago and I see all the deductions they have already taken from my account! Any advice would help and would be so appreciated!

Jun 02, 2011 3:19 pm
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

OK, just looked at my checking account and out of the blue, Northern Leasing just hit my account for $90. + I don't have the money. No letter from them, no email, nothing.
So the only thing I can do is file a complaint with the Oregon Dept. of Justice and the FTC and close my checking account after disputing the debit at my bank. I followed everything they said I had to do to cancel the lease.
The only thing I can think of is we all need to file disputes at the state and federal level.

Jun 02, 2011 12:49 pm
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

I canceled my account 2 years ago and just opened my bank statement only to find Northern Leasing took another $125.oo WITHOUT my knowledge. I called them and they said they got audited and I owed them tax. ? They said they sent me a notice, I never received and gave me my old address. I moved 6 years ago and have gotten statements from them at my new address. I blame myself for trusting, they wouldn't take any money from my account without sending notice. I will NEVER allow anyone to take money from my account again. I now accept CASH ONLY. I would NEVER reccommend them EVER!

Jun 01, 2011 3:11 pm
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more


Apr 08, 2011 10:08 pm

Please call Northern Leasing at [protected]
and ask their customer "service" reps why they are working for a company that they know is taking advantage of hard working small business people.


I am a small business person from Wisconsin. Northern Leasing is committing wholesale fraud on small businesses across the United States. I contacted the New York State Attorney General Office and got totally brushed off. I will no long get any of my supplies for my business or knowingly do business with anyone who operates out of New York. If New York tolerates this kind I blatant fraud than I can not trust doing business with New York based companies.

Mar 31, 2011 7:49 pm
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Just called trying to cancel a lease on equipment that didn't work. Lease was up in Feb 2011. Test tran was the only thing that worked. In May 2008 they told me I could lease a second unit. Right. My Company bit the dust in Dec 2008 but they don't care, you're stuck with the lease even if your company died. I'll send them the equipment and register it so someone has to sign to prove they got it. I will be on them like a case of measles til they truly cancel the lease. I have the Oregon Dept of Justice bookmarked on my computer as well as the FTC site. Wish everyone the best of luck.

Feb 10, 2011 4:08 pm
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

We were contacted by a rep at TransNational, who wanted to help us get started processing credit cards in our small store. He said that there would be no cancellation fees with TransNational if we ever wanted to stop, and while we'd be "leasing" the credit card machine through Northern Leasing Systems for 4 years, TransNational would help us find someone else to buy the lease from us of we wanted to quit. We said ok, knowing that within a year, we’d likely be upgrading our system all together and wouldn’t need it anymore. First mistake: all these cancellation “perks” were verbal, and never in writing.

We’re paying $48 a month for the credit card machine, which after 4 years, comes up to about $2300, which is grossly more than the cost of the actual machine. We didn’t discover this until later.

A year later, the rep we talked to is nowhere to be found. TransNational is sticking a $300 cancelation fee, plus requires a two month cancellation notice. And they will not help us sell the lease. Northern Leasing Systems, the lessor, will not let us out of the lease early, so we're stuck paying the 1500% markup on the machine. The only out option is to have someone else buy the lease, with a $150 lease transfer fee.


Ya, we’re stuck. Don’t fall for the trap! Buy your own credit card machine and find a competitive merchant that makes honest money.



Over the last 6 months there has been an ongoing scam in Spokane, WA that relates to small businesses and credit card services. Seemingly offering a good solution to the rising costs of offering credit card purchases; the hook? Wholesale prices for swipes. The reality? Three times the costs and then once the company has access to your business account they start taking out extra amounts that repeat and increase each month. In some cases double billing customers and forcing the merchant to be responsible for reimbursement. Customer service calls cost more than ten dollars per each call. Then there are the unexplained costs. The 16.99 and the 69.99 then the demand for paying taxes every other month of $27.99 this is all before the cost of the swipe. How do I know? A very close association with someone who got scammed. Pulling out the my wife died and I am left with 3 children to raise by myself, one particular salesperson raked in several business persons before they caught on and began passing the word. What is the name of the company?
Northern Leasing Equipment, now say that another 10 times….don‘t read on, say it: Northern Leasing Equipment is a company that has very bad business practices. And they do not care if they break the law.
Now remember this company is running a scam do not give any salesperson the time of day if they tell you they are selling credit card services through Northern Leasing Systems. The fact is what they are selling is a shell game, they either allow someone who has been fired from their company to ‘sell’ services without telling you they are someone else or they do not send you the machine and then bill you 4000 for a 400 dollar machine. Then they also take money out of your business account without telling you what the bill is for. Oh, and then they also send you random bills for ownership of the machine and say you have to pay government taxes.
If you run across sales people that offer you the moon DO NOT BELEIVE THEM. Call around
In Spokane DO NOT TRUST GENE OLSON, SHAWN BLAIR, DWIGHT OLSON these three men have allegedly been a part of scamming small business people in the Spokane AREA.
So if you are in need of credit card services go directly to your bank they have direct access to official companies that offer legitimate credit card services.

Jan 06, 2011 9:12 pm

I just read the original post, and quickly skimmed a few.

This is going to be very long and broad at times.

DISCLOSURE, I came across this page and others while researching a career at Signtronix. Seems like they have been beat up similarly at this site and others by commercial consumers with buyer's remorse. Maybe they do have heavy-handed sales techniques, but as a veteran of 28 years in sales I can tell you that it is extremely frustrating that I will make a pitch, offering a creative solution (most recently in mortgage planning for the past 13 years) and then the consumer will take my expert analysis based on research, plus my creative plan that may save them $60k over the term and with no closing costs, but the consumer will then bring it to some bozo who knows nothing (a nephew? a niece? a friend?) and gives them the business so they can save $6 more a month. It should not be legal but it is.

It seems like Signtronix creates signs and then some merchants want to use the design, have it incorporated by a competitor at a lower price and basically steal the copy written idea, hence the complaints about the rep not leaving the proposal for consideration. So their sales methods are designed to discourage this, not leaving any materials behind by which the merchant can exploit the pitchman's efforts and creative ideas, wasting and even stealing the efforts and energies of the sales rep. I wish I could have been able to do this in mortgage planning, but we are required to give up the whole plan no matter what and I constantly lost business to low-ballers who would steal my ideas via the consumer and undercut me. I would sometimes waste months on such plans and making zilch.

NOW ABOUT THE LEASE COMPLAINT, I used to work for a large, direct payment processing company, one of the ones that were "breached". You know who. When we signed clients, we advised them to buy the terminals. We advised them against leases, though we could lease a terminal. I never leased-out a terminal and I never made money selling a terminal. Often I even gave away terminals at my own expense as an inducement. This was the status quo approach. Our costs were very low and the terminals where usable by most other payment processors.

I was well aware that business owners that leased their terminals via rival payment processors were often sucked into exorbitantly expensive leases. (But that is the nature of leasing, be they for cars, furniture, office equipment, etc.) If we sold a unit for $205 - about cost - we would find merchants paying $1500-$3000 for the same or similar terminal over 36 months of leasing. And many merchants were stuck with terminals that only worked for the leasing payment processor, just as with most cell phones in the U.S. I.e., they were proprietary units.

However, to claim you were ripped off is unfair. You were ignorant and stupid, maybe. Not ripped off.

In my experience, those that leased terminals often got very low pricing on their payment processing service - basically at or near cost. That's why I could not switch them with a tangible, financial benefit. In other words, they got the payment processing as a loss leader and the processing company made money off of the terminal lease instead. So you are upset because you could not get both virtually free payment processing AND the terminal for cost. Boo-firggin'-hoo! And don't confuse Visa, Mastercard, Amex and interchange charges with payment processing charges.

And as for canceling the lease, I have reviewed many a competitor's lease agreement and the terms clearly state that the lease is automatically renewed if you do not cancel the lease before the end of the term. You did not read the agreement and manage your contracts properly and now you are upset and want to blame it on the contractor. If this is how you run the rest of your business, I would be surprised that you could endure these hard times. Do you think Fortune 500 companies make these mistakes? Ed Rendell is right - "We have become a nation of wussies."

You did not want to buy the machine, which would have been required by you if you refused a higher cost on the payment processing that would have been required by the processor so they may earn a profit...just like you like to earn a profit. A little common sense and effort to research costs on terminals would have made it clear to you that owning was the better option. You did not do that, did you? That's your failure, not the failure of the third-party leasing company.

Sites like this can be great for consumers. But they can also be great for malcontents and cranks that get upset every time they cannot have everything the way their mommy and daddy told them they could have it. They have become anonymous get-even-forums for those that want to do damage to companies when they don't get their way regarding an unreasonable complaint based upon an unreasonable expectation. (Or they are weapons for shills of rival companies.) I saw this attitude all the time in 14 years of working bicycle retail regarding bogus warranty claims, after the consumer or his/her kid crashed a bike and wanted a refund on the damaged bike. I'm glad we did not have the internet then. We would have been closed by consumers that were upset that they could extort an unjustified warranty claim.

To address a broader societal issue of which I have become quite acquainted, and at the risk of generalizing, why is that most business owners do not come from modest beginnings (thought they like to think they do), being born on at least second base, [censor]ing about taxes when most of them pay little or no true income taxes, and feeling they are entitled to everything and if they do not get it, they have been "ripped off"? Answer: They are too self-actualized, egotistical and spoiled.

CASE IN POINT, my gentle, wonderful, intelligent and hardworking girlfriend is a waitress at a restaurant in Wellesley, MA - a very, very affluent town - and she mostly gets microscopic tips from people living in $2M homes and driving Maybachs, BMW's and Caddys. Last night she got a $9 tip on a $120 tab from a group that arrived shortly before closing time and stayed until 40 minutes past, talking, talking and talking, knowing full well that the staff had been waiting to leave for 40 minutes while they [censor]ted. How about a $50 tip if they are going to do that?

IN CLOSING, "let the buyer beware" that sales reps and the companies for which they rep need to make a living and will have to find a way to make money off of your business. In other words, you can make a salad at home for $1. You can even grow it for $0.10. But if you want to eat it in a restaurant, you will pay $9 ($6.50 price + $2.50 tip). You made that decision and you are obligated to honor it after you have eaten the salad. You are not entitled to complain that it should cost $1, after the fact. You should not complain if they decide to price it as salad= $1 and tip =$8.00. You still need to pay $9, no matter how creatively the deal is detailed. That's the way your payment processor structured your payment processing contract and lease agreement, making money on your lease deal while making a sliver on your processing.

Sorry this was long, but after reading for two hours the rants of mostly spoiled rich kid-business owners complain about how they have been "wronged" I just had to vent it out of my system

Aug 26, 2010 8:00 pm

Sick of this company paid them a judgement in June that they put on hold to cancel my contract of 1100 and recieved a letter stating that I had satisf ied my judgement. Closed my buisness three years ago now I have a new charge of 3000. for the equipment told them I would send it back and why did this take so long they said I would still owe them fees. They can kiss my a...s!
Antone suing them or need me to help file a complaint let me know.
Marge [email protected]

Jul 02, 2010 4:45 pm

HA HA HA! Now I know that I am not alone. I am trying to cancel my contract with them after 48 months . They charge me $54/ a month for 4 years now, even I did not use the terminal because it gave me too much headache. I want to cancel my contract with them right after I use their service for the first month because their rate, fee are higher than everyone else. But they said I couldn't because they will charge me $54*48= $2, 592 even I don't use the terminal. This company is still in business because there are lot of small business being stucked with this big cheating company.

AHN is a USA based news organization starting an investigative business story about Northern Leasing Systems.

We are interested in what other posters have said about Northern Leasing Systems and would like more information.

We are particularly interested in information that can be substantiated with records, but am willing to speak to anyone who wants to speak to us.

If you would like to contact AHN about Northern Leasing Systems, please email [email protected]

Dec 13, 2009 11:13 pm

Welcome to the Club called Ripped & Victimized by Northern Leasing!
Almost 5 years ago we signed terminal leasing agreement with a rep from their company. The lease we signed was to be for 24 months @ $29.95 per month. However, a few months later when I actually received a copy of lease, I was surprised to see that term was changed to 48 months @ $39.95. In reality, they were debiting our account for $46.97 per month, the additional $7.00 for supposed 'Insurance' which we never agreed to or approved. In hindsite, we should had made a bigger deal about the $$ increase at the time. But as we were using the "Lipman Nurit 3020 countertop payment solution terminal" a lot back then, we did not want to go through the hassel of returning terminal...we had no choice but to keep it for the forged time term of 48 months. Our checking account was also debited yearly for $37.80. This for so-called 'Taxes' even though we never agreed to the additional charge or felt it legally due. Where did that money go? Into their pockets? Now it has been almost 5 years and still
they are taking $46.97 out of our account, even though lease term was over a year ago. We have paid approx. $2818.20 for a CC terminal that could buy for $200.00. Plus now is out of date/not to code!

Jun 30, 2009 1:44 pm

Northern Leasing Systems Inc. is an unethical company no matter how you look at it. Their deceptive sales practices, misleading contracts, horrible customer service and bait and switch tactics are all over the top.

I had a contract with for four years and then I was supposed to be able to purchase the machine for a small additional payment. My payment on the contract is for $49.00 a month but they have been debiting $57.38 from my account for six years. Their explanation is insurance and taxes. They want $309.00 to buy the machine now. I have paid $4131.36 for a machine I used for three months. With that said, it's my own fault that I did not follow up on this sooner but it seems from the other reports here that it wouldn't have made any difference. I asked them to fax me a copy of my contract and the detail pages were unreadable. I have requested they mail it to me as they have not yet mastered being able to communicate by email. In the meantime, I can do nothing about the debits. I will report back as I continue with this scenario.

Apr 16, 2009 7:50 pm

WAMU advertised their Merchant Services to me and put me in touch with an agent of TransFirst their preferred Merchant Services provider. This agent coerced me to sign an agreement by saying that it takes along time to process the application. When the agent realized that I would not go through with this service he put this whole thing in motion and had these companies debiting my account for services I did not use and equipment I did not have. WAMU refused to resolve the matter and I filed a case in small claims court and also reported them with the NYS Attorney General…because from what I understand I was not the only one having problems at the WAMU branch. I registered me with ChexSystems for non-sufficient funds trying to ruin my credit while I don’t owe them a dime. These companies want to get rich off people who work for their money…sorry but I am not buying!

Hey Vic and Scott, what about false contracts and forged signatures? Don't tell me that hasn't happened, I have the evidence.Problem is, they couldn't get the name right.Now they want to enforce an illegal forged contract.

Mar 12, 2009 11:02 am

Listen guys, Northern leasing verifies the lease with the merchant over the phone before signing you up. Lease terms are very clear. x amount for 48 mths and non cancellable. Regarding processing complaints, its the Merchant processing problems, pls contact your processor if you need further help to activate your machine email me at [email protected]

Jan 28, 2009 10:09 am

I too have been swindled by them with an unbreakable lease agreement. 3 years for a sign worth $3k and they want $450 to buyout the lease, otherwise it continues forever. Blood suckers. Run the other way!

Nov 10, 2008 9:25 am


Sep 30, 2008 7:12 pm

Anyone who is fighting against Northern Leasing in Florida, please contact me! It won't be long until Northern is out of our hair and out of Florida for good!

Joe Bankson
[email protected]

Sep 30, 2008 12:25 pm

Im a sales rep in the Merchant service business and one thing you have to understand is that you all signed a legal contract with the mo. payment and the lease term on the front of the application. If you buy a car and dont want it ayear later because the dealer charged you to much for it you cant just drop off the car and expect the finance company to not collect there money. Another thing is you said that you opened a new business and they cant use that terminal because its still under lease with northern leasing. I have news for you that sales rep is trying to sell you a new piece of equipment because the leasing company has nothing to do with the programing of the machine or the processing on it.


Sep 14, 2008 9:32 am

I returned the equipment to Northern Leasing Systems years ago; however, they continued to bill me monthly. Now, they threaten to sue me if I do not pay almost $1000 to them for the equipment. This is wrong. I'm not paying. They've already ruined my credit and I will not give them the satisfaction of knowing they won nor of getting money they did not do anything to earn.

Jun 03, 2008 12:40 pm

what can be done about this company, I cant belive that they are getting away with this I had pretty much the same experience.?11921

May 05, 2008 8:17 am

We are also small business owners who have been shafted by Northern Leasing. Our lease expired over a year ago. We were not notified. I called the credit card company to order supplies and they informed me that our lease expired.
Repeated phone calls to this company did nothing but elevate our blood pressure. We felt that we should receive some compensation for the $810.00 that we were charged after the lease expired. That was a joke. The best "offer" was a buyout of the 5 year old terminal for $350.00.We decided to purchase a new terminal from our credit card processor and discontinue business with Northern Leasing.
The terminal was returned to Northern Leasing on March 28th via USPS. I checked our account and they debited us again on May 1st. The terminal was not delivered to them until April 21st. I checked with the post office & the receipt was signed for by "N. Leasing."
Will this ever end?


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28 complaints
16 resolved 12 unresolved

Northern Leasing Systems contacts

(added by reviewer)
333 7th Avenue, 3rd floor, New York United States