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Jan-ProLess than Minimum Wage!

1 Review updated:

This is a cleaning franchisor that underbids
there accounts just to get them and then you
the franchisee is stuck making less than minimum
wage. I was making about $5.00 an Ahour. My year in
this company has been the worst of my life.I have
met and talked to many people who have lost all of
there investment in a short period of time. I talked
once to a women and she cried as she told me about
all the bad things they did to her. You can make more
money working in any minimum wage job.

Responses

  • Ge
    gettingthetruthout Dec 11, 2008

    I am a Jan-Pro Franchise owner and I also agree they bid for LESS than minimum wage. The Franchiser is SUPPOSE TO also give all franchisees a copy of the contract, but in all attempts, they have never given us a copy of the contract. They have only given us the work order which only shows us our job duties, never the SIGNED agreement of how much is to be paid per month by the client to the Franchisor.

    Also, whenever there is a client complaint, we are supposed to be NOTIFIED so that we as the Franchisee can RECTIFY the situation. One too many times the Franchiser just holds "private meetings" claiming they were working hard to fight for us but then they had to sell the client's business to another Franchisee... then the Franchiser's story changes & nothing adds up... we lost a $3, 500/month worth of business due to these secret meetings and their failure to notify us.

    I do NOT trust Jan-Pro Franchisers. The corporate office needs to be more involved in doing a check/balance system to audit their Franchisers who are nothing but scams.

    0 Votes
  • Kr
    krussi Mar 27, 2009

    Franchisee with the same problem and much more. Jan-Pro did not fill all accounts. When we wanted out as per the Franchise Agreement they refused to return our money. This is the biggest scam I have ever seen. These people need to be stopped. Has anyone fought them and won? email [email protected]

    If you are looking to buy a franchise run, run away as fast as you can.

    0 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment May 06, 2009

    Krussi can you please call me. I'm in the proces of taking legal action. Jerry [protected]

    -1 Votes
  • Br
    Bryan May 20, 2009

    I'm glad for all of your comments. I was just researching this Jan-Pro as a possible business opportunity but now I am seeing the light. I was wondering why they always had ads in our local newspapers - seems to never go away. You don't see successful franchises like McDonald's advertising in newspapers, etc. On that note; what angers me is that magazines like Entreprenuer Magazine come out labeling Jan-Pro a #1 franchise...blah blah blah. I'm sure some money exchanged hands on this deal. It's about time that claims like this from media outlets, newspapers, magazines, etc. need to be faced with legal action as well. These ads are misleading and most likely fraud also. America needs to get back to having accountability and morals!

    0 Votes
  • Pa
    PA Franchisee Jul 27, 2009

    Hi, Jerry. I would like to give you a call if you don't mind. I'm on the east coast and will try you later today. I've already called your law firm and waiting to hear back from them.

    0 Votes
  • Jo
    José Rt Dec 08, 2009

    I am in Colorado Just about to get a JAN PRO Franchise. WOW it all these comments are for real? Thanks so much for your advise. But guys they explain everything on their disclosures you guys need to read it is very complicated but when you are looking or trying to make money sometimes you think "this is great" but it is not. they can do whatever they want according to the disclosure you signed. I just notice because what I read and what you guys said they did make perfect sence.
    I really hope someone could stop this way to scam.

    -1 Votes
  • Fe
    felix Dec 20, 2009

    This is legal scam! However, there is room to take them to court and stop it. I am a current franchisee "I am not afraid to say it" in NC. The underbidding goes on and on and on. Master franchises either way, they have a management or sells' background. I am sure that ninety five percent of them have background in sales. They sell contracts to customers in-despite of the price and(they do not do the work, they are in management. You do the work), they sell it to you. If you do not "provide" the service you are suppose to, they will sell it again and again and again to other franchisees. Your failure, my gain, “what about that business model?”. Please think twice before you invest in this business because you are at the end of the food chain and they will eat you alive!

    0 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 25, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    Jan-Pro has been the fastest growing franchise for at least the last 3 years. 4 I think. See for yourselves at entrepreneur.com. You do not experience that kind of success without first keeping the majority of your franchisees happy. If you are looking at it from an hourly wage perspective, you are not thinking as a business owner. It takes an average of over two years for a business to turn profitable, if it ever does. Franchises are no exception. If you are not making enough money, reduce your costs. If you have reduced your costs as much as possible, sell more business. It is that simple.

    1 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Mar 25, 2010

    This is in responce to someone who calls himself " the voice of reason " who as we all now is someone from corporate.

    1. You said that entrepeneur magazine has said that jan-pro is one of the fastest growing franchises. I can already smell the dirty toilet water. You forgot to mention how much money or how many Thousands of Dollars jan-pro spends advertising on entrepeneur magazine. There is a conflict of interest there. Maybe it's time we all call entrepeneur magazine and let them know how jan-pro Riped-us off.

    2. You also forgot to mention that anyone with Chump Change can buy a jan-pro franchise. If you got $900.00 buckos they will take your money no mater who it is. The only reason they might have many franchisees is because anyone can buy one. That is not success.

    3. You told us to reduce our cost to as much as posible. That is imposible when jan-pro has underbid the accounts so low that we are loosing money.

    4. You sulution is for us to sell more business. However jan-pro will not show you how.

    5. Simply this is a scam with Deceit and Fraud that we will prove when we go to trial.

    1 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 26, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    1. So, Entrepeneur is on the take too. Just where does this conspiracy theory of yours end. I did not say that it is one of the fastest growing franchises, I said it was the fastest growing.

    2. Here is a scary thought, I agree with you. The lower dollar packages are way too low. $950 down is not enough to make franchisees take it seriously. However, those who do not put in the effort, will not keep their franchises and do not count in the total.

    3. It is not impossible to reduce costs, because you are in control of that, not Jan-Pro.

    4. If your master franchisee will not teach you how to sell more business, find out for yourself. I get regular emails from a website called cleanguru.com. They are out there for the independents, but I have picked up a lot of information that I can use for my business as well.

    5. I have serious doubts that your case will ever go to trial, especially considering the class action legal firm's shotgun approach. They are going after every major cleaning company at the same time. I would not even bet on a settlement at this point.

    As I have said before, I did my homework before I jumped in. According to my FDD, there are a total of 3 lawsuits listed in Item 3, one of which is the class action under discussion here. One was settled six years ago, and one does not even involve Jan-Pro but two of its officers that were with another company that is being sued. I have FDD's from four other companies (one other commercial cleaning company) and all of them have at least a dozen cases listed.

    0 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Mar 26, 2010

    This is in response to "the voice of r"

    1. It's only obvious to anyone that if Entrepeneur magazine is getting payed THOUSANDS of DOLLARS that they are most likely going to say good things about them, Duh!

    2. I see that you agree with me that $900 buckos is the only reason jan-pro got so many people to join and not because you tried to imply that they are a sucess. They are in the Business of SELLING Franchisees and nothing more.

    3. You lied again. Are you in here to Lie and be Deceitfull? Stop being a LIAR. You Don't control your business. jan-pro controls you! If they call you at what ever time they feel like it and you don't return there call they will FINE you $50.00 Dollars. What kind of Dirty Crap is that. That is straight out stealling money. If jan-pro feels like it they can take your accounts away when ever they want to. Do you know how many people from around the country have called me and almost cried because they lost everything to jan-pro, because jan-pro ripped them off. How can you rip-off single moms, veterans, and hard working American families. How can jan-pro sleep at night.

    4. Your 4th statement makes absolutely no sence. I mean seriously did you really think before you wrote it? I hope other people looking into buying a jan-pro franchise read this. Basicaly you are admiting that jan-pro will not teach you how to sell more business. So after someone gives jan-pro $20, 000 Dollars they should forget about jan-pro helping them or teaching them how to sell more business. So you are saying spend $20, 000 Dollars with jan-pro and then go to some website so that they can give you some tips ?? You have got to really be kidding me. Basically you are admiting that once you give your money to jan-pro and they don't help you, you should go to some website from who knows where and learn from who knows who, how to do something that you paid jan-pro Thousands of Dollars for . Why even bother buying a franchise with jan-crap, hey just go to some website in the middle of who knows where. You really need to screw your head on right because you are sounding just like jan-pro management.

    5. You can have all the doubts you want about us goin to trial but Me and all of the Thousands of people from around the United States of America and Canada have Faith that we will get justice. We will keep fighting until we get Justice. Many more people will also be going to there District Attorney to file criminal charges. We need to stop jan-pro from hurting so many American Families.

    6. The Fdd is very hard to understand it's like reading Tax Code. Even jan-pros attorneys admited that it's Very Hard to understand. Why would jan-pros attorneys say that because it is.

    7. I know of about 7 lawsuits. There could also be many more posible Lawsuits in small claim courts. I wouldn't be surprised if there was many more of those around the country. I know of 2 other lawsuits that were about to be filled but these people had so much incriminating evidence that jan-pro settled. This was some really Hard Core Incriminating evidence.

    0 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 26, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    1. If Entrepreneur's rankings are for sale, I wonder how much Subway pays to stay at the top spot overall.

    2. I said that $950 was too low of a barrier to entry.

    3. Where did I lie? Everything I have posted is the simple truth. No one is responsible for your actions other than you. If you did not understand anything in the contract, you should not have signed it. As a veteran, I find your last statement here offensive.

    4. If you do not understand my statement, it is obvious to me why you were unable to comprehend the FDD. Are you saying that I should not utilize all resources available to me? What I said is that if your master franchisor does not do his job, find another route. If I sound like Jan-Pro management, I take that as a complement. I am a businessman, it is a good thing that I sound like it.

    5. I will skip. Only time will settle this one.

    6. While the FDD is not exactly Dr. Seuss, it is a far cry from the US tax code. My degree is business with an accounting and finance concentration and it still baffles me. The FDD on the other hand (assuming that there are only slight differences region to region) is fairly straightforward. Where did Jan-Pro's lawyers say that it was confusing? I would like to read it.

    7. If you know of 7 lawsuits, you might want to tell your lawyer because they are required by law to disclose all current litigation as well as past litigation going back 10 years. Perhaps it is your local master franchisor who has the extra lawsuits. My master franchisor here in Tucson has none. Either way, I would be interested in seeing your hard core incriminating evidence.

    0 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Mar 26, 2010

    In responce to "v of r" who we all now is someone from Corporate.

    1. By the way why are you copying my number system copycater.

    2. The only reason Entrepeneur or jan-pro might say that they were growing fast is only because anyone with chump change can buy a franchise with $900 bucks. They are in the business of selling franchises not cleaning. Selling franchises for $900 bucks does not make jan-pro sucesfull but a seller of $900 chump change franchises.

    3. You have lied. You said that you control your own business and that is a BIG Fat Lie. Jan-pro controls you and decides what they want and what they can doo to you. You are simply buying a less than minimum wage job. Again you are being Deceitfull and Fraudulent like jan-pro. I know of veternas who have been ripedoff. I find it offensive that jan-pro riped them-off and I dont understand how you could let jan-pro get away with that.

    4. Are you seriously gona keep trying to tell everyone that after you pay jan-pro Thousands of Dollars and they don't help you after they promised you, that you should go to some website that is in who knows where for help and not jan-pro who you payed Thousands of Dollars to. Jan-pro who promised you so many things before you gave them your money. Are you seriously thinking straight. What was the use of paying Thousands of Dollars to jan-pro for? You make absolutely no sence! I hope that anyone who is looking to buy a franchise reads all of these post that way they can read your post and know that if they spend $20, 000 Dollars on jan-pro and you need help that you beter forget about it and go to some website from who knows were so that you can get some tips from who knows who. I guees you finaly admit to being part of corporate at jan-pro.

    5. Why do you want to skip this part. Is the truth getting to you.

    6. The Fdd is not straight forward. It is Missrepresentfull and Deceitfull. Jan-pros lawyers admited to me and said that the Fdd and Contract is hard to understand. They also said that you should get a lawyer who can read it for you. Why would he say all of that? Because he knows its hard to understand. Now ask yourself why is jan-pro making this so dificult to understand, what shinaginans are they pulling?

    7. Yes I do know of 7 Lawsuits. This is a scam hapening all over the country. I have also received calls from people in Arizona. People from your area have also called me to complain and tell me that jan-pro has riped them off. You said that you would be interested in seing this incriminating evidence. I will make sure to save you a seat at the courthouse when we go to trial.

    8. Jan-pro Exposed on TV. Recently jan-pro was Exposed on Television. Here is the link so that you can see how jan-pro riped-off these people.

    http://msnlatino.telemundo.com/shows/Al_Rojo_Vivo/video_player?uuid=7d4cfdb4-97e0-4799-9b76-6a38d058e95f

    0 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 26, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    1. I am merely addressing you point by point.

    2. You are telling us Entrepreneur's thinking? Are you psychic as well? If you are, why did you not see your problems ahead of time?

    3. If you believe that you are controlled by Jan-Pro, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But, that is all that it is, an opinion. I stand by my personal integrity.

    4. Jan-Pro has stood by everything that they promised me. I appreciate the forthrightness of my master franchisor. He offers training on building my business. But again, that does not stop me from looking at other possible sources of information. That is how I ended up finding this site and /link removed/

    5. I skipped because only time will tell if the lawsuit is successful.

    6. Jan-Pro's lawyers admitted that to you personally??? Seriously??? I have to run up the BS flag on that one.

    7. If you know of seven lawsuits, what are the locations and case numbers? Even if it were true, it is nothing compared with the 31 cases listed in Jani-King's FDD. It seems the only liar here is you.

    8. I do not understand why she signed the contract if she did not understand it. She should have insisted on the contract in spanish or at least had her lawyer translate it for her. Either way, it comes back to my point of not signing what you do not understand.

    1 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 26, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    That is the same case we have been discussing. Is it not? You claimed to know of at least 7. I am asking you to prove it. Allegations prove nothing.

    0 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Mar 27, 2010

    In responce to "voice of lies"

    1. You seem to not understand. I'm telling you that the only reason jan-pro has sold many franchises is because they are like vultures and sell many franchises for chump change. If all there franchises were selling for $500, 000 Thousand they would probably only have half a dosen franchisees.

    2. You can jump up and down scream and yell and deny it all you want but the truth is that jan-pro Controls you. Thousands of franchisees will tell you that. We are treated worse than employees. It's a fact.

    3. I have talked to alot of people and jan-pro never helped them. Infact they did the oposite. They riped them off. So I know you are lying and so does everyone else. I have also had people from Arizona call me, yes your area and they told me that they got riped-off by jan-pro.

    4. I asure you that we will be suceesfull in pursuing justice. We are pursuing justice because we got riped off.

    5. Yes jan-pros lawyer admited that to me personally. Yes I'm very serious. You know why he admited it, because it's the truth. What you can't handle the Truth.

    6. Yes I do know of 7 lawsuits that were filled. You can cry and deny it all you want, but the evidence is there. What shocks me is that you try and make it seem like if it wasn't to many.

    7. The lady who came out on the Television Special on how jan-pro rips-off people signed the contract because Jan-pro was Deceitfull, Missrepresentfull and Fraudaulent. They lied to her and comited Fraud. Jan-pro will tell you what ever they have to tell you to get you to buy.

    8. Did you listen to one of the ladies statements? Jan-pro Lied to her and told her that the customer hadn't paid, but then they went and talked to the customer and the customer told them that they had already paid. What kind of Fraud is jan-pro pulling. To me this is Fraud and breach of contract.

    9. Did you see what the ladies that were covered up said. They said that when they went to cash there jan-pro check that the jan-pro check BOUNCED! Then when they went in to talk to jan-pro to tell them that there check Bounced they were kicked out of the office.

    10. When they show up on the day that they are supose to pick up there check many times they don't have it.

    11. Do you know why some of the ladies are covered up, because jan-pro will retaliate against them for telling the truth and take all of there accounts away. That is how Jan-pro Controls you.

    12. Because of jan-pro one of ladys is now loosing her house.

    0 Votes
  • Du
    DutchGroup Mar 27, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    It is obvious that Mr. "1st Amendent" has way too much time on his hands to be posting all over this board. If this guy had such a strong work ethic, and a solid business plan then he ought to stop wasting his time on his board and go start a business. My guess is that Mr. "1st Amendement" would rather get a quick pay day from blaming some big bad corporation for his inability to effectively run a business. People fail at business all the time, but the difference between Mr. "1st Amendment" and those that become successful is pretty evident after reading all of these posts. Truly successful business owners, who work hard, understand that sometime failure is part of the risk that one takes to be an entrepreneur. However, when these successful business owners fail they pick themselves up and start fresh with a no idea, a new concept, and use these the failure as a life lesson. An unsuccessful business owner like Mr. "1st Amendment" prefers to cry and whine about how it is everyone elses fault and refuses to take responsibility for his own actions. I challenge Mr. "1st Amendment" to be a man, a true entrepreneur and move on!!

    You were not meant to be a commercial cleaning franchisor, and "Voice of Reason" and myself who are from two different commercial cleaning franchsisors are proof that the system works if you work the system. If you don't like the contracts that are being offered to you then go out and sell your own and stop crying.

    Secondly, the commercial cleaning industry is a VERY competitive industry. If you were looking for a cake walk with 80% profit margins to came to the wrong place. I have accepted accounts where I simply BROKE EVEN, because I knew the account had potential in extra work sales and possibly other buildings to clean. That is what you do as a business owner Mr. "1st Amendment!" It is plainly obvious from your posts that you have no business in this industry, and I truly thing you would fail at running any type of franchise you purchased because you just don't have it in your blood.

    Some of the things I do agree with you on if they are truly happening are:

    1. You should be able to view the cleaning schedule and actual maintenance agreement before accepting an account. My franchisor is very good about this and I am able to go through the entire folder of notes by the salesman. I also have 10 days in which I can turn the account back in to the office with no penalty at all. I do understand the reasoning for not allowing franchisees to walk the accounts as long as the office provides me a detailed outline of the building.

    2. I did not know that Jan-Pro offered franchises for as little as $950. In my Jani-King region the mininum investment is $6, 000 plus a down payment of $650 for equipment and another $350 for the supply package. Instead of complaining about Jani-King or Jan-Pro as a whole why not complain about your region specifically which will do much more for you. If you have a bad meal at a McDonals in Miami, are you going to assume orclaim that McDonalds sells nothing but bad meals across the country?

    3. I think it is the responsibility of the franchisor to teach you how to sell your own business and to provide on-going training for your franchise. In my Jani-King region we are provided free training at the regional office every month on topics relating to cleaning, as well as, selling accounts, and how to keep your business. After Jani-King met my initial business obligation my own busines plan assumed I would get no other business from them and instead focused on my own selling efforts. This way, any business that I did accept from them was just gravy, but I certainly was not going to have my families future rest on their business offerings. THIS IS WHAT SEPARATES THOSE WHO BOUGHT A FRANCHISE TO GET A JOB, VERSUS THOSE WHO BOUGHT A FRANCHISE TO OWN A BUSINESS.

    Good luck with your lawsuit you are going to need it!

    1 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Mar 27, 2010

    To Dusche group,

    1. You are using the same tactics as jan-pro to try and stop me from posting the Truth. Jan-pro tried to take my 1st Amendment Rights. It looks like Janiking is trying to do the same. What you can't handle the truth!
    I'm exercising my Rights under the 1st Amendment. Besides as an American that Loves his Country if I see someone ripping of someone or taking advantage I can't just sit down and let them get away with it. Slavery was abolished a long time ago. Dusche group maybe you need to go to a communist country because here in America we have fredom. I know of all the scare tactics that you and jan-pro try to use but people are going to start standing up.

    2. Explain the 52 pieces of Litigation Janiking has.

    3. Explain the Class Action Lawsuits that Janiking has in California, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and Minnesota.

    4. This following Lawsuit by janiking is really something else. In order for janiking to get away from paying Taxes they tried to pass it on to the franchisee. Clasic isn't it. The Goverment didn't go for there crap. So now Janiking sues the Goverment. Yes thats right can you believe that. They sued the Comptroler of the State of Texas and the Attorney General. The Judge didn't buy there crap either and granted States Motion for Summary Judgement and held Janiking LIABLE. Janiking then Appealed and the court of appeals again found Janiking LIABLE! Anyone looking to buy a franchise with these companies now know what to expect from them. You have been warned that this is one of the many ### things that you can expect.

    5. You said that if I dont like the contracts that jan-pro gives you that you should then go out and get your own. You make absolutely no sence. What is the point of buying a franchise then. I'm Glad that you mentioned this that way any potential person looking to buy a jan-pro or janiking franchise can see the way you all operate. So be warned everyone or any potential person looking to invest in these franchises. If they offer you crap accounts and and you are getting ripped of and you don't like it then tough luck and kiss your Hard earned money good bye.

    6. These companies are in the business of selling franchises not cleaning.

    7. You said that in some accounts you broke even, mine were much worse. Its funny how you try and use psycho bable to try and convince us that it's ok to get accounts were we breack even. Now you have been exposed. Now any potential people looking to buy a franchise have been warned. Then you try and imply that its ok because you can get some extra work which will also be underbid and a rip-off. You make absolutely no sence.

    8. You lied again about the franchisor giving you 10 days in to which you can turn in the account. Infact this is a BIG FAT LIE.

    9. Again you lie again. I see janiking franchises being advertised for $900 Buckos all the time. Is this more FALSE advertising.

    10. On your last paragraph again you make no sence. You say that you are so good at geting accounts. Then why did you buy a franchise. If you are such a great business man what are you doing cleaning toilets. What jan-pro is doing is Fraud. They are doing the same thing a thief does when they breack into your house and steal your belongings. I'm not an Attorney but I think that Jan-pro needs to be prosecuted under the Rico and Raqueteering acts and there Executives and management need to go to Prison just like Madof and Enron. Anyone going to see there District Attorney please mention the Rico and Raqueteering acts.

    0 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 27, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    Leave it to someone who calls himself 1st Amendment claim that someone is trying to violate his civil rights. Now you are a hypocrite as well as a liar. I am not going to go point by point this time since you have posted twice since I last visited this board. I will however address some key issues.

    1. As someone who raised his right hand, swearing to defend his country, I see it as you who is espousing socialism. You seem to think that someone owes you a living. Quit making excuses and earn your way.

    2. You have repeatedly said that not only did you not use the resources available to you, you did not even bother to look for any. You expected to be spoon fed everything for your business and made no effort to help yourself.

    3. I am still waiting for proof of your imaginary lawsuits. If you actually knew of 7, proving it should be no problem.

    4. You accuse others of trying to violate your civil rights. Telling you to put up or shut up id not a violation of your freedom of speach.

    5. You also claim quite frequently that you are telling the truth. I have not seen it. I believe that you feel you have been wronged. But, just because you believe something, does not make it true or correct.

    6. Finally, for now as I have a business to run, your comments about the Rico and racketeering acts are truly laughable.

    0 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 27, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    To DutchGroup,

    Actually it is $950 down and finance $1, 850 at 10%. Then you still have to buy the initial equipment package. It is a lousy deal and I am surprised that anyone goes for it. Profit margins are just too slim to make it work. That is why I posted that it is too low of a barrier to entry. Jani-King lists their plans on a monthly basis and Jan-Pro lists theirs on an an annual basis, so you actually have to do a little math to compare them. What I came up with is that I can get more business dollars for my investment dollars. Jani-King also takes a slightly bigger cut of gross receipts. Both companies are very close on paper, so what it all boiled down to for me was a gut feeling. The Jan-Pro master franchisee seemed more right if that makes sense.

    Now it is time to spend some quality time with the family.

    0 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Mar 28, 2010

    To the voice of lies,

    1. When we go to trial you will know exactly why I chose to use 1st Amendment. I picked it for a very important reason. For something that hapened at jan-pro and not just to me but everyone else. I will save it for our day in court. The evidence will come out.

    2. Again I tell the Truth and I use my 1st Amendment rights and you call me names. Then you atack me because you say that I have posted twice since your last visit which wasn't that long ago. Your mad because I reply to your post. You are now sounding like a litle baby.

    3. You are Lying and then you resort to calling me a socialist. How can you call me a socialist when I believe in the First Amendmentt? You are then saying that I couldn't make the crap accounts that jan-pro gave me work. The accounts that jan-pro gave me were Overwhelmingly Underbid, Those accounts payed less than a Third Worlds Countries Minimum Wage. Those were Overwhelmingly underbid accounts. Have you ever heard of paying people a fair wage? So now you resort to calling people who get mad because jan-pro riped them off by Overwhelmingly Underbiding Accounts Socialist. You really need to get your head cheked.

    4. You talk about me not using resources. Are you seriously going back to that post you posted a short while back when you said that after someone gives jan-pro $20, 000 Dollars and jan-pro refuses to help them that they should go to some website and get help from who knows who and who knows where. Are you kidding me. Then why even bother buying a franchise. You would think that after paying jan-pro Thousands of Dollars that they would help you. Basicaly they take your money, control you and give you Overwhelmingly Underbid Accounts. Then you get mad when I tell you the Truth and you call me a socialist.

    5. You act like being sued a few times is ok. Hey no big deal right. Lawsuits against jan-pro have been filled in the following states. Jan-pro has been sued in Rhode Island. Jan-pro has been sued in Florida. Jan-pro has been sued in Northern California. Jan-pro has been sued in the Inland Empire, California, Jan-pro has been sued in Texas, Jan-pro has been sued in South Carolina, jan-pro has been sued in the United States district court for the district of Massachusetts.

    6. You keep trying to turn the other way and not listen to the Truth. Jan-pro takes accounts away for no reason and sells them to other incoming franchisees, jan-pro rips-you off with overwhelmingly underbid accounts, jan-pro doesnt give people back there money when they don't give them accounts which is a breach of contract, jan-pro controls you. Did you see the special report on Television on how jan-pro was riping of those ladies and how jan-pros checks would bounce. How the ladies would go to pick up there pay check and they wouldn't give it to them. There is your Proof.

    7. If you have been riped-off by jan-pro you should file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commision. www.FTC.gov. You should also go to your District Attorney and tell them about how jan-pro ripped-you off. I feel that they are in Violation of the Rico and Raqueteering Acts. It's an ongoing deliberate Fraud.

    -1 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 28, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    1. If we have to wait for trial to see any evidence, ok. We will see.

    2. I said you sounded like a socialist while accusing someone else of being one, or at least that he should move to a communist country. I do not believe that is name calling. I will let those who bother to read this discussion decide who belongs in grade school for name calling.

    3. Again, I said you sounded like a socialist, not that you were one. How is voicing my opinion under the first amendment a lie? As DutchGroup said, the commercial cleaning business is very competitive. There is a very thin line between underbidding the competition and successfully bidding a profitable contract. What do you know about third world countries? I have deployed to Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Haiti and several other countries and have seen firsthand what poverty is. That you dare to compare your plight to theirs is deplorable.

    4. You put $5, 000 down, not $20, 000. This is by your claim elsewhere. What I expect is that when I sign a contract, the other party perform by the contract as a minimum. I do not expect them to spoon feed me all training. The master franchisee here offers regular advanced training which includes building my business. If you buy a $5, 000 car, do you esxpect the person you bought it from to drive you around as well? I put $11, 475 down, so I expect my car to run a little better than yours. I also did not throw all of my money at once, so I don't have to worry about losing my house.

    5. For a national corporation to hav only been sued twice in the last 10 years is exemplary. Yes, I said two. Guzman and Guzman vs. Jan-Pro, Rhode Island, 1996 and Vazquez & company class action suit, Massachusetts 2008. I challenge anyone to find a national corporation with a better record.

    6. If my master franchisee does not have my check ready and I have submitted all of the correct paperwork by the appropriate deadlines, I would take it to the Better Business Bureau first. By the way, the three closest master franchisees to you all have A- ratings with a total of one complaint between them, and it was resolved according to the BBB.

    7. If you believe you have been wronged, go to the appropriate agency. BBB for problems with your master franchisee. FTC with FDD violations. Finally, arbitration and courts as appropriate if unable to resolve otherwise.

    0 Votes
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    1st Amendment Mar 28, 2010

    To the Voice of lies,

    1. If you saw the Television Special were jan-pro was EXPOSED for Riping-off those ladies then what more proof do you need. Those ladies are hard working ladies. They just want to work hard and be able to pay there bills and make a living. They don't like Lawsuits and I don't like them either. However we were Riped-off and it isn't right.

    2. You acused me of being a socialist because I said that jan-pro was ripping me off. The accounts they gave me payed less than a Third World Countries Minimum Wage. Making less than minimum wage might be ok in a comunistic Third World country but it isn't right in Canada or The United States of America. We can't alow to let jan-pro get away with this because that will hurt this Country and everyone that lives here.

    3. Again you start of by Making things up and imagining things. That is what jan-pro tries to do all the time. You should have heard some of the lies jan-pro told about me to a reporter, it was so ridiculous that the reporter laughed.

    4. Again the accounts that jan-pro gave me were underbid. Many people will tell you the same thing. It's the Truth. Some were so low that it would not surprise me if they were paying less than a Third World Countries Minimum wage.

    5. I also now of many people in the Military who got Riped-off by jan-pro. What do you have to say to that? I know of some veterans and people active who got riped-off by both janiking and jan-pro. They are very mad that they got riped-off.

    6. What is deplorable, what is Sick and disgusting is that because of jan-pros Fraud people will loose everything and you seem to not care.

    7. I know many people who invested $25, 000, $20, 000, $15, 000 $10, 000 $5, 000 and some who invested $900.00. Either way and either amount it isn't right for jan-pro to rip them off. You said that you expect people to perform the minimum when there is a contract. Let me tell you jan-pro doesn't do any of that.

    8. Here we go with your shinaginans of Deceit again. You are ridiculous in what you said about buying a car and then having the person you bought it from drive you around. Is that the best example you could come up with? Are you seriuosly thinking straight? What PART of underbid accounts don't you understand. What is the use of investing on a jan-pro franchise. I hope that anyone looking to invest in a jan-pro franchise reads all of this and all the post because that way they can read what you keep on saying and they can see what kind of crap they would have to deal with. They can also read the part were you continue and continue to say that if jan-pro doesn't help you once you give them Thousands of Dollars that you should just go to some website in the midle of who knows were and read some tips.

    9. Basically you have said and you continue to say that if you buy a franchise with jan-pro and they don't help you tough luck and that you should figure it out on your own. Thats not what they say on there advertisements. More False advertising by jan-pro.

    10. I bought the $9, 000 Dollar fake franchise and put $5, 000 down and on every paycheck they would deduct money from the rest of the money that they were riping me of on. They also charge interest on this. The accounts that they gave me were riped-off from other people and then given to me. I was also riped-off because they didn't pay me for extra work I did. They also tried to rip me off on some equipment.

    11. You are lying again. Jan-pro has more Lawsuits than just 2. I know of 7 Lawsuits. I have talked to people who have filled there own Lawsuits. Jan-pro was sued in Rhode Island, jan-pro was sued in Florida, Jan-pro was sued in Ontario California, Jan-pro was sued in San Jose California, Jan-pro was sued in South Carolina, jan-pro was sued in Texas, Jan-pro was sued in The United States District Court For The District Of Massachusetts. By the way there is 11 Lead plaintifs in the National class action Lawsuit, these are people from all over the Country. As you can tell the jan-pro Scam is hapening all over the country. I also know of more people who were about to sue jan-pro but since jan-pro knew that they had all this incriminating evidence they settled out of court.

    12. The first thing I did was talk to jan-pro and then they responded by giving me the Finger! Many people are very scared of jan-pro because they are afraid of retaliation. If you start to ask jan-pro questions they will retaliate against you. Besides if you feel that jan-pro is so inocent why are you so afraid of the Lawsuit. You also lied because the bbb is not showing any of the closest offices to me. I have also received calls from people who got riped off by jan-pro from all of these areas including Riverside county, Orange County and the Ontario area. I talked to someone who went to the bbb but they never heard nothing back. So nothing was acomplished.

    13. Jan-pro is comiting deliberate Fraud across the country and Canada thats why it's a National Class Action Lawsuit. I would also like to see the U.S District Attorney go after them for Fraud. I feel that they have violated the Rico and Raqueteering Laws. They have Deliberate and ongoingly continue to commit Fraud. This is a crime that needs to be prosecuted with Prison.

    -1 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 29, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    1. Ok, we will go through this again. Allegations are not proof. Tabloid TV is the same regardless of the language, 20/20 and 60 Minutes are just as bad. If you don't like lawsuits, why is that the first place you went?

    2. I said you sounded like a socialist because to me you sound like you expect the world to provide you with whatevert you want regardless of whether you have earned it or not. Stop trying to read my mind. You are no better at it than you are at running a business. Maybe if you spent some time in a third world country, you would not be so flippant about using the term. I doubt it, but maybe.

    3. What did I supposedly make up or imagine?

    4. Simple economics, the contract goes to the lowest bidder. Why does this surprise you?

    5. You say you know a lot of things, yet you only provide allegations, not proof.

    6. If people get hurt through no fault of their own (for example the earthquake victims in Haiti), I do care. But if someone has the opportunity to reduce or eliminate damage, then it is their responsibility to do so. If someone deliberately does something with a high probability of loss or injury, they deserve any harm that comes. You fall into the middle category. I will not lose any sleep because you expected Jan-Pro to provide all of the answers.

    7. So, prove it.

    8. Yes, it is ridiculous. But, that is exactly what you did.

    9. How about some specifics on this one?

    10. They gave you a loan and then expected to be paid back?!? CALL THE COPS!!! You did extra work that wasn't in the contract and they didn't pay you?!? Why should they?

    11. Jan-Pro was sued in Rhode Island. Climaco Guzman and Cielo Guzman vs. Jan-Pro Cleaning Systems and Carol McClennan (Case No. C. A. P96-4703, Superior Court of RI). That's one. Jan-Pro is being sued in Massachusetts. Depianti, Dos Santos, Kim, Roh, Vazquez (Hey that's you), Roman, Aguilar, Rhodes, Garduno, Harris and Sinapov, and all others similarly situated. v. Jan-Pro Franchising International, Inc. (Case No. 1:08-cv-10663, United States District Court, District Court of Massachusetts). That's two. The others I could not find. That makes one past and one active. So, if you know of more, show us case numbers.

    12. Many people are scared to the boogie man too, that does not mean that it is a justified fear.

    13. How did I lie about the BBB? It is easily checked. I am sure that if I posted my phone number on the web, I would have plenty of loonies calling me too.

    14. You have obviously not read the Rico and Racketeering Acts.

    -1 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Mar 30, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    I would like to apologize to anyone I have offended with my posts. Looking back, a few of them were a bit harsh. While I do believe that each of us is responsible for our own actions, or lack thereof, you cannot force someone to accept the truth, especially if that person has convinced himself/herself otherwise. We can either learn from our experiences or get run over by them.

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  • Du
    DutchGroup Apr 01, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    Where did this Mr. "1st Amendment" guy come from? Where in all of my posts have I ever tried to censor you? I have every right and so does Voice of Reason to post whatever we like, the same right you do. I think you are the communist here who is pissed that someone dare disagree with you. I agree with Voice of Reason you are full of hate and lies and it is trulysad to see someone fall off the wagon like you have.

    1. Jani-King has 31 pieces of litigation. 7 of them relate to Jim Cavanaughs divorce. 5 of them related to disagreements with other commercial cleaning franchisors. 4 of them involve Jani-King suing another party for breach of contract. That leaves 14 true pieces of litigation. I refer you to my post on the Jani-King thread on 4 of those lawsuits which were either dismiss in whole or in part, and 2 of them that the courts denied class action status on.

    2. You should really do your homework before posting Mr. "1st Amendment" the court has denied class action status on all of them. Ouch that has to hurt your case.

    3. I love his comment regarding, why buy a franchise if they don't give you all of your contracts. THIS PROVES WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT MR 1ST AMENDMENT AS NO BUSINESS OWNING HIS OWN BUSINESS!!! That is like buying a McDonalds franchise and telling the franchisor that I am not going to do a darn thing to bring customers into the restaurant but if at 100 customers don't come in a day, I am going to sue you!!! HAHAHA. The point of buying a franchise is the operations support, training, and the overall good will of the name. I bought Jani-King because I could have never bid or gotten some of the accounts I got without the Jani-King name behind me. Just ask Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys if you would hire Mr. 1st Amendment to clean his new stadium. He would laugh your butt out the door. However, thats not what happened at Jani-King they welcome them into the place and signed a multi-million dollar 3-year deal.

    4. You are right the franchisor is not in the business of cleaning. Just like McDonalds is not in the restaurant business. In fact, McDonalds Corporation's largest asset is all of the land it owns not the restaurant itself!! I am the franchisee and I am in the business of cleaning, that is why they sold me a franchise. Thank you Captian Obvious for undercovering the biggest mystery in franchise history. If you didn't know that Jan-Pro or Jani-King the franchisor was not in the cleaning business before you bought the franchise then you really need some help.

    5. Again, I refer to my comment above, THIS PROVES WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT MR 1ST AMENDMENT AS NO BUSINESS OWNING HIS OWN BUSINESS!!! Any business owner understands the give and take involved in owning a business and dealing with customers. I don't expect you to be able to make sense of my comments, that is the point. Only someone that is a true entrepreneur and business owner would understand. You truly believe in your head that when someone starts a business they should be millionaires over night. My comments are directed to those that have a much stronger work ethic then you will ever have.

    6. You can say I am lying until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that I am a current franchise owner that has actually turned accounts in after I serviced them for 10 days and did not feel it was the right account for me. People can read this and believe a disgruntled former franchisee who has a MAJOR AGENDA. Or they can believe me, who has no agenda, because I gain nothing at all from these posts.

    7. Do I have to spell things out for you slower then I already do? Do you understand that not every region is owned by Jan-Pro or Jani-King but can be owned by a master franchisee that can set the price for a franchise at any price he wants? In my region it is $6, 000 as a down payment. Whether that is the case in your area, I don't know, but where I live that is the truth.

    8. I bought a franchise because I would never have gotten to even bid the account had it not been for the Jani-King name and support. They provide me a $250, 000 bid bond on a government building that I tried to qualify on my own for and was denied.

    I am done with this guy. I think I have lost some brain cells!!!

    1 Votes
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    1st Amendment Apr 04, 2010

    To Douche

    1. Here we go again first thing you do is start calling me names. In your last post you called me a communist, a hater, a liar and an idiot. You said I fell from a wagon and then you finish it by saying that You have no brain cells. LOL. Anybody looking to buy a Jani-king or jan-pro franchise this is the kind of people you will deal with so beware.

    2. No Douche I think you forgot to do your homework. You thought you had me didn’t you. Not! The Lawsuit in Minnesota didn’t go through because of some technical issues. Federal class actions are very technical. However it’s nothing to worry about. The franchisees can file there own Lawsuits. Just Imagine if 30, 40, or 50 of them all go and file independent Lawsuits. That is going to be one very crowded courthouse. Imagine what the next jani-king Fdd is going to look like with 52 lawsuits plus another 40 or 50 added to it for a total of maybe 100. Half the Fdd will be Lawsuit disclosures!

    I also like the way that somehow you forgot to mention a few things or maybe they just slipped through your brain. Oh I’m sorry I forgot that you have no brain cells. You forgot to mention that the judge in the California lawsuit simply said to comeback and amend the lawsuit because he wanted to see more details. I would hate to see it not get class certification and have 995 independent lawsuits. Imagine the next time a person walks into a jani-king office looking into buying a franchise and sees 995 lawsuits on the Fdd. I can see that person flying out of there like a Bat from hell.

    You also forgot to mention that the Jani-king Lawsuit in Massachusetts got Class Action Certification and the Trial starts in May.

    3. So somehow you try and suggest that it’s ok for jan-pro to not give you all of your accounts and that you should get them yourself. What would you have done if you would have bought one of there biggest packages and they only gave you one very small account that paid less than minimum wage and a whole year passes by and you never hear from them again. You are forgetting that they don’t teach you how to acquire accounts infact they don‘t teach you much except command you where and at what times to clean like an employee. There is no support, the training is a joke, and they have a bad name.

    Infact on a website www.Bluemaumau.com reporter Corbin Williston stated “Janitorial franchises have long been a source of embarecement for the franchise industry”

    He also stated that “A 2001 report by the GAO on FTC Enforcement of the franchise rule found that from [protected] jani-king violations affected 900 investors”.


    4. Again you start with your Deceit and try using mumbo jumbo to change things around. Basically all they do is tell you when and were to clean. They don’t teach you sales, or marketing, or nothing, nothing at all. They sell franchises, steal franchises away and sell them again and steal them again and sell them again. It’s a Racket. A Ponzi Scheme. It’s Fraud and the stealing of accounts to sale to another. The money that these franchisors have made from this scam is in the Millions. They are not in the business of cleaning. Your business never grows instead they steal your accounts to sale to another new franchisee. Did your brain cells get it this time?


    5. You said something about give and take. These cleaning franchisors only TAKE. You said that I shouldn’t expect to make a Million Dollars. I don’t expect that, but I didn’t expect to be given accounts that pay less than a third world countries minimum wage! Would you take accounts that paid $5.00 Dollars an hour?

    6. You said you turned in accounts after 10 days. Why? Your brain cells couldn’t handle it? Did you get a callous in your hand? Was there no air condition in the place you had to clean or you couldn’t find someone to rip-off that would do the work for $4.00 an hour. By the way this reminds me of the latest Lawsuit against janiking in San Antonio, Texas were a worker is suing for unpaid wages? Yes, add another lawsuit to there litigation and Fdd. How many Lawsuits is it now? Is it 30, 40, 50, Did I loose count? oh wait it’s up to 53 Lawsuits.


    7. All the decisions come from headquarters. The decisions come from the Top.


    8. I thought that you were so smart that you could bid and get any account and now your excuse is that you couldn’t get a bond. Sounds like excuses to me. You should have done like your buddy “voice of lies” says and went to some website and figured it out. Douche you didn’t take your buddy’s advice. You should have gone to his website that he talks about. He is going to be disappointed in you. Lastly Douche I don’t believe you, No body believes you or your bag of lies. Your full of brain snot.


    “I went and bought a fake franchise with jan-pro, two long months later when they gave me my first paycheck, I looked at it and said what the Fock!”

    1st Amendment

    0 Votes
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    1st Amendment Apr 04, 2010

    I found this at TRLA

    February 22, 2010
    San Antonio Worker Sues for Unpaid Wages and Retaliation
    Posted by Texas RioGrande Legal Aid under Client Resources, Labor & Employment, Press Release
    Leave a Comment

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    Contact: Sarah Donaldson, Attorney
    Office: [protected]
    [email protected]

    SAN ANTONIO, Texas – February 22, 2010 – A San Antonio worker has sued Dallas-based Jani-King International, Inc. and local Jani-King employers Ramiro and Elizabeth Bernal for violating minimum wage and overtime laws and for unlawful retaliation.

    Represented by Texas RioGrande Legal Aid (TRLA) and the Equal Justice Center (EJC), Gabriela Monsivaiz alleges that she was not paid minimum wage and overtime for the janitorial work she performed for Jani-King between 2007 and 2009. The lawsuit also alleges that Ms. Monsivaiz was terminated when she asked to be paid properly.

    “The complaint alleges that our client was fired because she stood up for her rights to minimum and overtime wages, ”said Sarah Donaldson, a TRLA attorney representing Monsivaiz.

    The lawsuit alleges that Jani-King and its local operators violated the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and the Texas Minimum Wage Act. According to these laws, employees must be paid at least $7.25 per hour of work. Under the FLSA, an employer must also pay overtime of 1.5 times an employee’s hourly rate for each hour worked beyond 40 in a given week. The FLSA prohibits an employer from retaliating against an employee for asserting her rights under the FLSA. The lawsuit was filed in federal court in San Antonio.

    Monsivaiz’s case comes as part of a new San Antonio-based wage recovery project aimed at helping low-income workers recover when they are unpaid or underpaid for their work. TRLA and the EJC, two non-profit law firms with experience advocating for low-income workers, are collaborating on this project to address the growing problem of workers’ rights violations in San Antonio. Workers who are interested in learning more about their rights can contact the project at [protected].

    According to Donaldson, the problem is wide-spread. “We have heard many complaints from janitorial workers who, like our client, say they were not paid correctly for their work cleaning the businesses, schools and restaurants we all use.”

    Established in 1970, Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, Inc. (TRLA) is a nonprofit organization that provides free civil legal services to low-income and disadvantaged clients in a 68-county service area. TRLA’s mission is to promote the dignity, self-sufficiency, safety and stability of low-income Texas residents by providing high-quality civil legal assistance and related educational services. The Equal Justice Center (EJC) is an employment justice and civil rights organization which empowers low-income families, individuals and communities to achieve systemic reforms that improve their lives. For more information on these organizations visit www.equaljusticecenter.org or www.trla.org.

    0 Votes
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    1st Amendment Apr 04, 2010

    To Voice of Lies


    1. There not allegations, they are Facts and the Truth. We have the proof. This will all be proven. You can’t call Maria Celeste a tabloid. She is an honest reporter who reports the news. She is highly respected and a lady of integrity. For you to call her a tabloid is wrong. I know that you are mad because jan-pro was exposed on Television so you feel the need to lash out. You said that the lawsuit was the first place that we went to. That is not true. We tried talking to jan-pro but jan-pro didn’t care. Infact I tried talking to them many times but they simply told me tough luck. They didn’t care.


    2. The way you accuse me of being a socialist is wrong. The way you make things up like saying that I expect things given to me whether I earned them or not is also another sick attack on me and more made up lies. I know that you are mad because I said that jan-pro underbids accounts so low that I was making less than a Third World countries minimum wage. I tell the truth of what happened to me and even though you don’t know me you attack me with lies. Sounds like typical jan-pro management. Now do you see why we were forced to take legal action, because talking to jan-pro is like talking to a Dictator.


    3. The problem again being that jan-pro bids there accounts so low that there is no money to be made. No profit. It’s really ridiculous at how low jan-pro bids. Voice of lies would you take an account were you only made $5.00 Dollars an hour???


    4. I expected jan-pro to do what they promised not to be deceitful, lie, commit Fraud, or underbid accounts. You said that I shouldn’t expect jan-pro to provide all the answers. Guess what that is exactly what they tell potential franchisees. They will be very nice before you give them a check but once you do they change. It’s an ongoing Racket.


    5. Jan-pro gave me accounts that they took away from other people. They gave me underbid accounts and you call those loans? It’s more like stolen recycled accounts. Jan-pro told me to do extra work. I did what jan-pro told me. I was told that I would be paid for that work, then I wasn’t. Theft, Fraud and Racketeering.


    6. You can keep trying to deny it all you want but I know of other lawsuits. Jan-pro has been sued in Rhode Island, Jan-pro has been sued in Texas, Jan-pro has been sued in South Carolina, Jan-pro has been sued in Florida, jan-pro has been sued in San Jose California, jan-pro has been sued in Ontario California, jan-pro has been sued in the United States District Court.


    7. The bbb can’t do anything. They can’t enforce anything. They have no judicial power to take action. Jan-pro can simply throw away any complaint in the trash and once they find out who complained they will retaliate against them just like janiking did recently against its workers.

    8. Many people are afraid of jan-pro. On this one newspaper interview a person asked the newspapers to hide there identity. Did you see the special on TV were some of the ladies were hiding there faces. That’s because they are afraid of jan-pro. I had a lady tell me that she was afraid of jan-pro and that even though she was getting ripped-off she was afraid to speak up. They to tried to scare me and intimidate me.


    9. I’m not an attorney but I do feel that jan-pro is in violation of the Rico and Racketeering acts.


    10. In response to your last post. It seems like you started to apologize but the way you worded it, it seems to me like you took it right back. When we go to trial you will see what I have been telling you all this time. You will see the truth. You to will be disgusted at what jan-pro has been doing Nationwide .We were Ripped-off by jan-pro. That is the Truth and we will prove it when we go to trial.

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  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Apr 05, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    I. Quoted from above
    "To the voice of lies,
    ...
    2. Again I tell the Truth and I use my 1st Amendment rights and you call me names. ... You are now sounding like a litle baby."

    Also,

    "To Douche

    1. Here we go again first thing you do is start calling me names."

    These proves you are a hypocrite.

    II. You keep claiming to know of seven lawsuits yet cannot provide courts and case numbers for them. If there is no case number, there is no case. This and many other things prove you are a liar.

    III. You do sound like a socialist whether you like it or not. That is my opinion and therefore neither truth nor lie.

    IV. The most important rule of business is get it in writing. I don't know about your contract, but mine doesn't promise unlimited help. At some point, you have to put forth some effort. According to your own posts, you failed to put forth reasonable effort.

    V. You have posted that built a relationship with the customers before you even met them. How do you think you make a sale? It is your responsibility to foster that relationship.

    VI. If a TV program only airs one side of a story without even asking the other side, I call that tabloid journalism. That is exactly what Al Rojo Vivo did. Integrity in journalism is becoming as rare as integrity in politics. If you want the truth about any story, you have to watch six different stations and throw in a tablespoon of salt.

    VII. You put $5000 down on a $9000 plan. That is a $4000 loan. I do not know how to simplify it any more.

    VIII. Class action lawsuits are not all that technical, but the lawyers like to make you think so. They are very lucrative for the lawyers, even when they lose. A class action lawsuit is a bunch of little voices banding together to make one big voice. Sometimes this is necessary, the tobacco cases come immediately to mind. However, if the big voice is determined to lack merit, why would 45-50 little voices have any more? Class action lawsuits are based on the principle that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. When you dilute the whole, the parts become less.

    IX. I apologized to the casual reader of this debate who may have been offended, not to you. I have sympathy for the blind man, not the man who refuses to see.

    X. Would I accept an account that only makes $5/hour after my loan payment and expenses were met? Absolutely. After my loan is paid off, I get $600/month increase. Once I am in the door, I have full faith in my abilities to sell additional services. I will make that account profitable.

    XI. 25% of all new businesses fail in the first year. Buying a franchise improves those odds slightly if you follow the system. You admitted that you did not follow the system. It is no surprise to me which statistic pile you landed in.

    XII. As entertaining as it is to listen to you jump up and down and scream absurdities, I grow tired of listening to the same lyrics over and over. The tune has lost its luster. So, unless you have something constructive to add, it is unlikely that I will respond. I believe I have addressed all of your allegations. Yes, they are allegations until deemed true or false by a reasonable governing body.

    XIII. You have no doubt noticed that I am using a Roman numeral numbering system this time. I did not want to infringe on the Arabic numerals that you said you invented. Oh wait, that was the Arabs. Did you invent the internet, too? Your credibility meter seems to have stopped working.

    0 Votes
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    1st Amendment Apr 10, 2010

    To voice of Lies,

    1. Here we go again you start of by calling me names. Now your calling me a baby and a socialist, etc…Then you call the people who got ripped-off by jan-pro Blind men. What are you going to call me on your next post? What will you call everybody else? Then you start to apologize but it’s another jan-pro trick because at the end you kick everybody in the back of the head and take it right back, like if it’s some kind of joke. Then again you switch it and tell me that you are not apologizing to me but only to the Thousands of people that got ripped-off by jan-pro? Nobody can believe anything you say.


    2. One of the things that I would like to emphasize to people who are looking into buying a fake franchise with jan-pro is don't believe anything jan-pro tells you. Voice of Lies even tells you on his last post do not do business with jan-pro unless they put it in writing because jan-pro will Lie to you to get your noney and once they do they will go back on there word. So be Warned that jan-pro is not the kind of people that you can shake hands with and make a deal or believe anything that they tell you.


    3. Why is it that you call me a socialist. Is it because I stand up to jan-pro and say, Stop ripping off people! Now anybody that stands up for themselves is a socialist. What do people that have a fake franchise with jan-pro call the treatment they get from jan-pro? A Dictatorship.


    4. jan-pro had there chance to come out on Television and defend themselves. The only thing that they told the Television station was that they would send people a letter to see what they could do. It's been almost two months and those letters still haven't arrived. They lied again. Richard kisane the President of jan-pro said on Franchisetimes that they only have one lawsuit but on TV were jan-pro was exposed they showed Four Lawsuits and I know of at least seven lawsuits.


    5. When jan-pro steals accounts to give to someone else they call those loans, I call those stolen accounts. What they do is sick. How can they steal accounts from someone and resale it a few times to diferent people and keep the Racket going. How can jan-pro take food away from a family. How can you steal accounts from families or single moms with kids. Have you no soul?


    6. You said that the lawsuits are very lucrative to Lawyers. This is part of jan-pros way of putting us down. Sounds to me like you are saying that when people get ripped-off they shouldn't do anything. That’s why we have trials in this country to seek out Justice. You are desperate and to the point you will say Anything to put us down because we are seeking Justice and our day in court.


    7. Voice of lies, Now you really did it. Now you have absolutely no Credibility AT ALL. Anybody looking to buy a jan-pro franchise please read what voice of Lies tries to say in his last post. Voice of Lies is somehow convinced that making $5.00 Dollars an hour is a great deal. His mind is going out of whack! He is trying to justify that making $5.00 dollars an hour is great. He really needs to stop listening to the voices in his head. To any person looking to buy a fake franchise remember this, if you buy a fake franchise with jan-pro and they give you accounts were you only make $5.00 Dollars an hour they will try and justify it. That is the kind of Bull crap that they will pull on you.


    8. Jan-pros system is set up to rip you off from the beginning. I read on Franchisetimes.com that franchise Lawyers for Franchisors are constantly changing the contracts and Fdds so that they can beat any Lawsuits in court. It’s to the point were they try and change the Law. One franchisor tried to change the Law by bringing down the statue of limitations by a year. Can you believe that kind of crap. They are to the point were they are changing the Laws of our country. When I left jan-pro they wanted me to give up my right to talk to an Attorney. Can you believe that they tried to take my right to talk to an Attorney! It’s a Racket, a modified Ponzi scheme that needs to be stopped. .


    9. Finally I leave you with the last paragraph of an article I read on Franchisetimes.com

    “When the courts are involved, no franchisor is an island” by Janet Sparks

    Franchisors’ bad behavior affects all

    Some franchisors don’t seem fazed by the sea of litigation they are sinking in or by bad press. Attacks on blogs from angry franchisees may jolt them when they attempt to sell more franchises, but even then, many choose to stay the course. But as court decisions change the way franchisors must conduct business in certain states, and public legal documents allow their dark sides to be exposed, what are potential risks? If Capitol Hill should get a whiff of the rank odor coming from some big franchisors, new legislation might favor franchisees. That’s one risk no franchisor wants to take.

    -1 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Apr 11, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    I guess there is enough different here to merit a response.

    1. I did not call you a baby, I called you a liar and a hypocrite. But if the shoe fits, feel free to run around in it. These symbols here " " are called quotes. I was quoting you from above. I did not call anyone a blind man, but I will say that you refuse to see the truth. Again, I apologized to the casual reader of this.

    2. Don't do business with ANYONE without getting everything in writing. You really do not belong in any business.

    3. You expect the courts to give you what you were too lazy and/or stupid to get for yourself. That is why you sound like a socialist.

    4. Jan-Pro was not even called for that story. Again, what lawsuits? What court? What docket number? If you know about them as you claim, you should have no problem producing the information. You are a liar, plain and simple.

    5. I have never heard of an account being called a loan, but financing part of your franchise is a loan. If you did not service your accounts properly, you signed a contract that said Jan-Pro could take them back. If you had built a relationship with your customers, it would never have been a problem.

    6. No, I am saying that people with legitimate complaints should use the channels available to them. I just don't think you have a legitimate complaint.

    7. Are you really that stupid? Did you not even read what I posted? I said (here comes the quote thingies again), "Would I accept an account that only makes $5/hour after my loan payment and expenses were met? Absolutely." I know that as I serevice an account, I can cut the time it takes to clean can be cut in half, *POOF* $10/hour. Once I hit $10/hour, I can consider hiring employees on the job at $8/hour, *POOF* $2/hour profit for sitting on my butt. All I have to do is check up on them once in a while. Then, in less than two years, my vetloan is paid off and I make another $600/month. Then there are those little extras, their floors look a little dingy, offer a strip and wax. Their carpets show traffic lanes, offer an extraction or bonnet cleaning. You don't even have to be a salesman to see what needs to be done.

    8. Again you are using terms that you don't even know the definitions.

    9. One active lawsuit against Jan-Pro is not exactly a sea of litigation.

    0 Votes
  • In
    Independent cleaner Apr 21, 2010

    Janitorial services franchise companies, are not in the cleaning business, but rather in the business of selling franchises to would-be entrepreneurs.

    This is how franchises work. for Example: there are two companies, the family owned business and the franchiser both bidding on a typical 5 day a week 2.25 hr per day office cleaning account. The family owned company places a normal bid of $755.00 per month for the account. The franchiser sales person bids lower in order to win the account. He places $631.00 per month for it. The customer not aware of what is going on likes the very low price and decides to sign with the franchiser. Now after signing, that contract will be sold to one of the franchisee for $1893.00 3 times the worth of the account. They have to pay it off in 3 months; they will actually clean that account for 3 months for free in order to pay for it. After the account is paid for, then the franchiser takes 20% per month off the top for franchise fee ($157.75.) plus $50 for insurance per month for each account. So now the franchisee gets $473.35 per month for that account...The franchiser sales person has now made $1893.00 on the account, plus $144.65 per month as long as they have the account. So the head franchiser makes there money on quantity and re-sell of accounts not quality. What happens in almost all cases the franchisee that has purchased the account starts to realize he is not making much money on the account so he calculates it to see how much he is really getting. $473.35 per month divided into 4.33 = $109.31 per week, divided into 5 days = $21.86 per day, dividing that into normal cleaning time 2.25 hours = $9.71 per hour. after he deducts his cost for materials, equipment, etc. He realizes he is only making $9.00 per hour. Now he can not afford to hire labor unless he makes some changes. For labor its going to cost $8.00 per hour but after taxes, workman comp, etc, etc, the total hourly cost for labor will be $10.00 per hour. So now he needs a solution.
    The Solution: What happens he cuts back on material, supplies, etc? Maybe even water down the chemicals to stretch it out, cuts the cleaning time in half say from 2.25 down to 1.25 hours. After all is done, he can know afford to have an employee and still make his 5 to 10% profit.

    Now the problem, the customer has now become a victim. The customer is being short change; the cleaning supplies have been cut and the cleaning time is being cut in half, leading to very extreme poor quality cleaning. Now the customer has to complain to the head franchiser, The sales Rep promises they will take care of it. Again no changes and the customer now needs to complain many more times, they explain that the building is in poor condition, there customers and employees are also complaining about the poor cleaning quality in there building. Now the sales rep for the franchisee needs to solve the problem in order to save the account. He or she takes the account from the franchisee and re-sells it to another franchisee making another $1893.00 on that same account, totaling $3786.00. Now the problems will just starts all over again but with the new franchisee, as they start the same process the last one did, usually it will continue till the customer has had enough and decides to switch companies. But in some situations the customer could be locked into a three year contract. If there is for instance 2 years left on the contract, they will need to pay the two years left in the contract in one large sum in order to be released from it, costing the customer an additional $15, 144.00 in the end the franchiser has made over $18, 930.00 on that one account.According to industry information, the typical legally-operated cleaning company profits between 5% to 10% after all costs and overhead are paid. Some very large corporate operations function on as little as 2-3%, but these are the exception in the industry. Franchises and/ or others who operate unethically or illegally typically under price their services since they don't have to actually suffer the direct consequences of their pricing strategy - instead making their money "off the top". It's the poor franchisee or illegal subcontractor who suffers trying to make a reasonable wage from the predicament. If a franchiser has taken any where from 15 to 20% off the Top, It is most likely the franchisee would not succeed. In the end, they and the customer have become victims of the franchiser.

    0 Votes
  • Th
    The Voice of Reason Apr 22, 2010
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    First, your numbers are way off. Even using your numbers, which are high, 20% of 631 is only 126.2. Second, Workman comp is covered by insurance which the franchisee rides on the master franchisor and still keeps it under your 20% mark. Also, taxes come out of the $8/hour, they are not added to it. Do you really spend 8% on your supplies? If I go over 3% it raises a red flag. Finally, watering down chemicals increases cleaning time which drives up labor, a lose-lose situation.

    0 Votes
  • Ed
    Ed Jones2010 Apr 30, 2010

    You guys are making some good points, the bottom line is each franchise master is his own entity. They have a blueprint to follow, with these hard times today it seems as though they are starting to drift. As far as working accounts that pay less than minimum wage, I say do the math before you do the walk thru. If it doesnt add up, or you cant walk away with something comfortable, dont take the account. As far as the low bidding, we are in a recession, no one is paying top dollar right now. I have seen a change in the past 2 years, almost every new account that I have been offered is on the low side of the bidding. Now that is just my opinion from a business side. The bottom line if the numbers dont make since for me then I pass on it. The sad thing is some people dont know that, or just cant comprehend that, Jan Pro is wrong for misleading people. They say you are in business for yourself but not by yourself, with all the fees that they charge they should not take advantage of the franchisees that do not know any better. It is also sad that ops managers have their own franchises, these are the guys that inspect out accounts, that is a conflict of interest, and the franchise master is aware of this. Where is the support for the franchise owners? Jan Pro has issues and they will pay for it, when you get alot of people saying the same thing, some of it has to have some truth to it, and thats what the court system is for. There are 3 sides to a story, yours, theirs, and the truth. In these cases, there are contracts in motion, as as soon as one point shows Jan Pro out of pocket, thats their @ss. Good Luck to all the franchisees that got ripped off, keep applying pressure, they will fold because the profit margin is shrinking for Jan Pro, more and more franchisees are getting word of whats going on, and the back door deals that are going on. Jan Pro nationally might not be bad, but it is the individual Franchise masters that are doing the franchisees dirty.

    1 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment May 24, 2010

    I read the following article at Bluemaumau.org

    Federal Judge: Franchising Sounds Like Ponzi Scheme

    Posted Thu, 2010/04/01 - 19:12 by Corbin Williston

    Is franchising "a modified Ponzi scheme?" Last week, a federal judge said it might be.

    Janitorial franchises have long been a source of embarrassment for the franchise industry, and frequently attract purchasers with few assets and poor command of English.

    A 2001 report by the GAO on FTC enforcement of the Franchise Rule found that from [protected], Coverall violations had affected 2591 investors, and JaniKing violations affected 900 investors.
    A 2005 news article in the NY Times noted complaints by Brazilian immigrant franchisees of Coverall in Boston, and a settlement of Coverall litigation in Los Angeles in which franchisees alleged fraud.
    An August 2009 interview with Franchise Times quoted Coverall making this claim:
    Jacqueline Vlaming, Coverall’s general counsel, said, “Every franchise owner who runs it like a business can make money.”


    In the most recent lawsuit, Pius Awuah and 10 other franchisees relate similar stories:

    1.They paid Coverall North America a "franchise fee" in exchange for which
    2.They were promised a minimum dollar amount of client accounts to service each month.
    3.Coverall entered into the contract with the clients and billed the clients.
    4.Coverall assigned the franchisees to clean the client premises, and
    5.Coverall would remit money to the franchisees after deducting various charges.
    The franchisees alleged in their Complaint that they were never given the amount of business they had been promised, and that the degree of control which Coverall exercised over them meant that as a matter of Massachusetts law that they were really employees of Coverall.

    After filing suit, the franchisee attorneys uncovered damaging information and Coverall moved to seal court documents. In an interlocutory appeal, a 3 judge panel of the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals said in October 2009:

    Coverall has been charged--it has not been found liable in this case--with activities that could be viewed as highly unattractive[cite omitted]


    It is not necessarily the disclosure to competitors that makes the district court's order a matter of concern. Others, including enforcement agencies and potential plaintiffs, may find the disclosures of interest in ways that would not serve Coverall's interests. [emphasis underlined in original]


    The lawsuit continued and on March 23, 2010 the District Court ruled in favor of the "franchisee" plaintiffs, holding that they are in fact employees.

    What has attracted attention within the franchise community is the Judge's comments about Coverall's assertion that its business was actually the sale of franchises. Traditionally industry trade groups such as the IFA have maintained that franchising is not an industry but rather a business model (although the IFA has on other occasions defined franchising as an industry).

    Judge Young stated:

    Describing franchising as a business in itself, as Coverall seeks to do, sounds vaguely like a description for a modified Ponzi scheme – a company that does not earn money from the sale of goods and services, but from taking in more money from unwitting franchisees to make payments to previous franchisees.


    The Judge went on to say that he believed that in fact Coverall was in the business of janitorial services and that under Massachusetts law the "franchisees" were really employees of Coverall. But the use of the term "Ponzi scheme" and the interlocutory ruling have caused this case to gain wide attention.

    An interesting issue raised by franchise law firm Nixon Peabody is the impact of the Massachusetts statute and case law on post-term non-compete clauses.

    The IFA issued a press release criticizing the ruling as a threat to franchising in Massachusetts. As far back as 1998, the IFA took the (then) unheard-of step and filed an amicus brief opposing a janitor who filed for unemployment after being fired from his job at West Sanitation Services. (Matter of Francis, 688 N.Y.S.2d 55)

    A bigger threat to Coverall might be the bad publicity which has caused it to lose contracts with Boston-area clients such as Legal Sea Foods and Cheescake Factory (NASDAQ: CAKE). Both restaurants paid Coverall, but the mostly Hispanic cleaning staff did not get paid.

    Coverall said it had properly sent money to the Boston "franchisee" and that it bore no responsibility for seeing that the workers were paid. After media reports, Coverall paid the wages. Legal Sea Foods terminated Coverall due to concerns about worker mistreatment, Cheescake Factory terminated Coverall due to a number of concerns, and the Massachusetts Attorney General is investigating the janitorial industry, according to the Boston Globe.

    -1 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Jun 11, 2010

    As you know I have received many calls from people all over the country. So far people from 25 states have called me including people from different parts of Canada. Close to 100 people have contacted me. From this we can conclude that the whole company is bad.

    Someone might say do the math before you accept a building. The problem with this is that most people don’t know and this is were they take advantage of them. Those that do have experience and decline a building because it’s so badly underbid will be retaliated against because now jan-pro will count those accounts towards them and jan-pro will not offer them anymore accounts. They wont return your money and they will say that they have met there obligations of offering you work. This is basically a Racketeering Scam. Also many times they will call you and if people don’t accept a building right away without even looking at it they will count it towards them. Why are they even offering people bad accounts that pay less than minimum wage? They know this is wrong. Why do they count accounts towards people when they decline an account when jan-pro knows very well that an account would pay less than minimum wage. I have had people tell me that they would be offered accounts to be cleaned during there normal working hours in there regular job. jan-pro knew very well that they couldn’t clean those accounts at those times because people would be at there regular job during those hours. They had already told jan-pro that they could not work those hours but now jan-pro would call them knowing very well that they will decline it because they work there normal job during those hours. Now they use this as an excuse to say that they have offered you accounts. Other times they wont even let people look at an account they just want them to accept it right away or they will count it towards them. Basically this is all a Racketeering Scam.

    Being in a recession is no excuse to rip people off. If they can’t find a decent account then simply give people there money back. It’s that simple There is no need to underbid an account so low that people make less than minimum wage.


    You are right in that the operation managers should not have a franchise or anyone in there family. An operations manager can now take accounts away from anybody and then give them to someone in his family. This is a Racket that needs to be prosecuted and these people put in jail.


    I suggest that if you have been ripped-off by jan-pro that you should file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and Attorney General. You can also join the National Class Action Lawsuit against jan-pro.

    You can file a complaint by going to www.Ftc.Gov

    0 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Jun 12, 2010

    One of the things we can do is file a complaint with the FTC, Attorney General and join the National Class Action Lawsuit.

    How to file a complaint with the FTC and why you should

    It is very important that if you are defrauded or have been victim to one of the scams we discuss here that you file a complaint with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). Filing complaints with the FTC is very important because complaints filed with the FTC get put into a secure database that is used by law enforcement to investigate cases. The FTC does not follow each and every complaint but instead investigates sources that have lots of complaints.

    The FTC will total all the related cases into large case leads and refers them out to task forces for investigations. You are not the only victim of these scams but if we do not file a complaint it may not get the attention deserved. Do not think that you are going to get a call from the FTC because you filed but it can help raise awareness with the FTC so they can take action.
    The FTC however can open investigations against entities that have violated consumer protection laws so filing a complaint is very important in this regard. FTC will not advocate on your behalf or even promise they will investigate the claim however it is one way they can get the information they need to put a stop to organizations that are violating the law.
    How to file a complaint with the FTC

    * Go to the Federal Trade Commissions Complaint Assistant
    * Click on the Complaint Assistant link on the right
    * The wizard will walk you through all the steps of filing the complaint. Add as much detail as you can and make sure the information you give is clear and effectively tells your side of the complaint.

    It is a very easy process but one that is vital to combating the scams that are taking advantage of millions of people.

    0 Votes
  • 1s
    1st Amendment Jul 12, 2010

    You cam read this article at the following website.

    http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/04/22/Jan-Pro_Faces_Class_Action_From_Franchisees_.htm

    Jan-Pro Faces Class Action From 'Franchisees'
    BOSTON (CN) - Jan-Pro Franchising International cheats its cleaning employees by misclassifying them as franchisees, selling them "franchises" through misrepresentations, violates labor laws, and targets immigrants for all this, a class action claims in Federal Court.
    The three named plaintiffs say Jan-Pro abuses its workers by "systemic misrepresentations and breaches of contract. ... Most notably, Jan-Pro purports to sell cleaning 'franchises, ' knowing it does not have sufficient business to satisfy its obligations under its franchise agreements. Individuals purchase these 'franchises' for substantial sums of money, based on Jan-Pro's misrepresentations about the guaranteed amount of monthly income the franchises will provide."
    Jan-Pro targets people who do not speak English well for its deceptions, knowing they will not understand the contracts, and misrepresents the hourly pay they will receive, the plaintiffs say.
    Plaintiff Giovanni Depianti bought his "franchise" by paying Jan-Pro "an initial fee of $23, 400, " and Hyun Ki Kim paid "an initial fee of $14, 400, " the suit states.
    Jan-Pro claimed to guarantee them "a certain level of monthly income, " but "systematically breaches" these agreements, the men say.
    Depianti was guaranteed $8, 000 a month and earned less than $3, 000, and Kim was guaranteed $7, 000 a month and made less than $4, 000, the men say.
    They claim Jan-Pro churns accounts by manufacturing bogus "customer complaints" to take business away from one of its victims to offer it to another.
    Represented by Shannon Liss-Riordan with Pyle Rome Lichten, the class demands damages for misrepresentation, unjust enrichment and wage law violations.
    .

    0 Votes
  • Do
    Doug Kriebel Aug 27, 2010

    I am not a franchisee but a business owner in the Philadelphia are with multiple location. Jan Pro bids low, then have a terrible cleaning "professional", complaning more than working. The quality of their cleaning is the worst in my 28 years in business. Yet, when they complain they want to change cleaners, change franchisee's, anything but let you out of their one year contract. MY RECOMENDATION, NEVER SIGN A TERM CONTRACT WITH ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH JAN PRO. If you do, I assure you will regret it ! They are decietful, nasty, irresponsible and the worst cleaners on the planet.
    by, Coldwell Banker Realty Corp.

    0 Votes

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