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It is really sad that someone who claims to represent the teachings of God, is having his employees harass other religious entities behind the scenes. Jim Brown who is Minister of Grace & Truth Ministries in Hendersonville Tennessee, has had several of his cronies call on via the phone, e-mail, or sometimes on site of a competing Church, and attack the beliefs of that congregation who Brown deems not to be a true Christian by his own beliefs.
Brown's hard-core cult-like teachings of the Bible, attract a fringe group of Christians who wish to exalt themselves over traditional groups such as Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostal, and any other religious group they deem worthy of attack.
Brown is not man enough himself to do the dirty work, so he has his followers or low-paid employees do it for him. They call people anonymously and verbally attack them with their views of the Bible. They send CDs and literature as well to unsuspecting churches who they target.
For several years. Brown and his group have been brokering airtime of cable systems across the country to carry their television ministry and raise donations. Brown hired an out of work heavy metal radio disc jockey - Dave Tuckmantel - to contact TV outlets to carry the weekly broadcasts.
Tuckmantel is responsible for harassing many religious organizations in behalf of Brown, and hap-hazardly boasts of his activities in the name of God.
This is completely unacceptable behavior and unethical for a religious entity to behave in such a manner. I was a supporter of Grace & Truth Ministries for quite sometime, however after learning of these shameful activities, I have since severed ties with them.
I feel the public needs to be aware of their activities and unethical behavior of Jim Brown and his Grace & Truth Ministries.
Company Business Name: Grace & Truth Ministries
Country of complaint: United States
Address: Hendersonville, Tennessee
Phone: (615) 824-8502
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Yes, well said MHJ...you are a member of Jim's church, therefore, you spoke well... I am not a member of Jim's church...therefore, I spoke with arrogance. Obviously, Jim can sense the humility..the back burner of MHJ's flesh... Nope to all responses off this page... This is a perfect forum for me for now. I don't need to email or talk privately on a phone with any of you. Talking to Jim is like having a re-run of unbanked orders and responses necessary to avoid argument. Agreeing, over and over again that my flesh needs to repent again and again and again and that I need to be in Jim's church in order to have the proper soup mix of 'repent-death-fellowship-crucifixion-congregation imposed mantras' under the "head-speaker'' monitorship. It's simply death of the mind and soul to re-run the same words and orders that had meaning in their proper place but have become mantras DUE to the fear that i'm not parroting 'Jim-speak' in order to appease the head monitor. I say that this forum is good for my soul and my mind in that I can go back and re-read what I had REALLY felt like typing. Due to this forum, I am also able to read the 'language' of Jim's members with an objectivity that I could never have had in the midst of Jim's 'congregation speak'. I'm done with being a part of your church. You guys can be buddies and judge me more if you'd like...Tell me and everyone how proud I am and how humble and meek MHJ is for "saying'' phonetically...the words "rebuke, repent'''...so what?! .. I could care less what both of you think about my internal feelings and/or relations with GOD and the people surrounding me in my life. I'm seriously not a part of a 'gathering' that adopts the language of it's leader without the will to think past what Jim says is 'really good' because he just said it himself. That's the lack of 'will' that I cannot stand. I might be a spiritual disaster in your eyes but I am tired of being dishonest to myself with false polity and false humility towards a man and his congregation in order to not be scolded or ostracized or called an unrepentant man...which is ABSOLUTELY not true. I'll answer to God through Christ. I would say and show what Has happened to me in my life as a testimony to Christ...and, partly due to me NOT being at your congregation...but, you guys would run it down ...simply because i'm not at your church...which MUST therefore be heretical.
I have learned to decipher/ to mentally 'distil' properties out of one act/man/speech...for the sake of my own sanity and that of others. You can have one person controlling others while having a father relationship while having them work out their deficiencies while having their deficiencies take on their own nature all in the context of "ONE" speech and/or dialogue and/or relationship. When you begin to not feeling healthy in an environment --though--EVERYTHING that is 'spoken' is correct/ right... IT can STILL BE WRONG FOR ***YOU*** TO BE THERE!
It has been my previous statement several times in this forum that I needed a 'hammer' to Drive me out of myself..That 'hammer' was Jim. Jim is an extremely effective 'hammer' for MANY. He's blessed that way. I continue to say that I don't regret being there or experiencing all that I did there. I, actually, have NO ill will towards any one associated with Jim or Jim himself. I hope he continues to preach and teach. This forum has been and will be for a limited time, I'm sure, a cathartic experience for me and a place for Dialogue that I have Never had before concerning Jim's Church and the wandering disciples/vagaries of it. I say this in all respect that I might have a defense for my own faith. When Jim's 'wandering scholars' or 'disciples' or 'church members' want to tell me that MY relationship with GOD is skewed BECAUSE I'm not doing a mantra of mock agonies due to my flesh's condition in the properly timed place of ''Church-out-ianity'' ---you can hunt a snark or chase a red-herring. The EVIL is right in front of you for Judging me. DIALOGUE IS THE THING... not repetition of 'holy-speak'...which, "HOLY-SPEAK" is not wrong...as long as you APPROPRIATE ALL YOUR WORDS WITH CARE IN THE RIGHT PLACE...
(4th line correction: 'when you begin to not feel...") sorry.
I profess that Christ IS LORD/ HE is LORD over me. I fail in HIS regard BECAUSE I am made that way---not to be a sniveler of "oh, my failure to meet to GOD's standard'' BUT, the recognition of what HOLY is and that I TRULY and nearly hilariously am incapable of doing. I really cry because of the DISTANCE that my conscience can have from GOD. The sadness is the distance and longing to be with GOD to have ULTIMATE RESOLVE OF THE PLAY. BUT, i'm in the 'play'...and I will "act it out'' until it's over. I LOVE GOD, I LOVE CHRIST with all my heart. I reject Pharisaical statements telling me that "i'm not RIGHT''', therefore, you should be 'over here' **where*** 'it's right' so that "WE" can tell you that 'we're' '''not right''''---and that's the 'right place to be'. Well, "'that''' is NOT RIGHT. It's psychotic.
It's funny that 'ONLY' Hendersonville, Tennessee '''has''' the "RIGHT" teaching/place of sufferance/ AND DUCKS THAT WALK ACROSS THE STREET with signs that allot 'proper duck walking' ... I think this town is preciously and nearly something you would read out of a MARK TWAIN novel. Gah! I'm smiling inside my soul.
This forum is healing me.
( i hacked the grammar this time...don't care...5 cups of coffee laden with the joy of SPEAKING MY MIND HONESTLY). ---but, 2nd to last line.."Precious" not 'preciously/ ////
as a co-note-- the infamous/ famous...whatever, atheist, Christopher Hitchens remarked that there has never been a more psychotic depiction of a "father-figure'' than that of a "god'' who would make you fallible, demand perfection, and judge you to hell for eternity for your incapabilities of 'being repentant.
I wanted to copy and paste this section for TOYATOFAN
""As to Toyatofan123...it's alright... I don't know you enough to make a judgement like that... I have known 'brain-dead' people...that is, they died right there, in front of me, and were concluded 'brain dead' in order to 'term' the patient. As to tooth fairy... there is a 'collective' body of works on "fairy'' by Tolkien, Shippey, etc... that would prove that, a "tooth fairy'' is just as real in fiction as you are as a scholar... that is to say...there's a LOT more documentation within 'narratives' that Tooth Fairies have a 'reality' ...a motion, a cause, ... actually, more so than the variables to prove that you are a scholar. Keep it coming Toyotafan123... You give me that Fire! I just adore it! and, may the Tooth Fairy visit you in certain ways...and May Jesus approach you in different ways. Read Umberto Eco...good stuff.
Kyle, I spoke out side of "Jim". I spoke out of the following and teaching of Christ. I didn't read all that you said since my request for you to email me but i will shortly. I only read the first few lines of the first response of yours. My comment that MHJ spoke well was based on the word of God. You accused me of saying the comment because he or she is a fellow member of my church. That's not right and false. The word of God says to NOT be a respecter of persons when putting people (brothers and sisters in truth) against the word of God. I will continue to read your comments. But my request for an email is because I would love to meet a brother in CHRIST not a brother in man.
you said "your ministry''...actually, here is YOUR statement that I have copy/pasted ---
***(lfis492a's words, not mine >>>) """Kyle Jones, when i get a chance i want to catch up on the conversation then speak to you in regards to your comments on leaving the fellowship of my ministry""""""" (< ending of lfis492a's words, not my words)***. it was misleading.. I left the 'fellowship' of Jim's ministry you do need to read everything SO that you can truly have a grasp on what is Really being said in order that you can safely speak within the context of this forum. By reading the forum, you might halt yourself from saying someone is '''false, not true, right, wrong, etc""
"as they occur"... I agree. It's the best way to receive "friends" by the grace of God. (Family) And as it occurred you appeared to be "...going for the same quarry/the same prize/ the same goal..." (your Lewis quote) So the "family/friend" that Christ speaks of, in the word, is what i thought "occurred" while visiting this complaint site. I need not "seek" friends or family in the flesh but I am, by the word of God, to spread the truth (the word of God) that the family that is out there may be awakened. (By the will of God) The word also expresses lifting each other up and being patient with one another and their issues as God works in them to burn Self Out. Conforming them to the image of Christ. I'm not hanging out on a complaint website going back and fourth with a brother that believes God's word but yet doesn't want to break bread together elsewhere. Agape and Phileo
fourth is an ordinal number...'forth' is your better option. As to 'family/friend that Jesus speaks of" ---can you show me that verse? I'd like to know Exactly where you are coming from. I'm sure that I will agree with you unless you are insane. I can never imagine a time that I wouldn't even agree with a Pentecostal that the Holy Spirit is a reality. It's the "HOW" the Holy Spirit is 'real'/ the "WHAT" reality does the Holy Spirit express Himself in, by, to, for, etc... . Also, the "kind'' of Holy Spirit. Now, you might send me the James Strong's list of scriptural passages concerning the Holy Spirit but have an entirely different idea of the revelatory nature of the Holy Spirit. Nonetheless, you might have given me much scriptural volume. As concerning your divine command to 'do truth'/ 'by the Will of GOD'/ there are a lot of Christians that say, do, and feel the same way that you do---me included. So, I hope that you don't have a problem with other Christians 'doing truth, by the will of God' --since your "truth and will'' are 'stated' by you as such---i.e., "truthfully'' and by "God's Will", of course. Though, other Christians might have distinguishing ideas from your ideas of 'truth' and 'God's will' I would see the arguments to exhaustion in order to 'distill' the "truth'' to size 'by' God's Will, again > of course. If you have established the maxim for '''idea'' of 'doing truth and doing 'God's will' how far have you gone? and what does that mean for the rest of us who haven't traversed to such distances? Who has the tool or gauge to measure this? and what Christian court decides who our earthly judge should be in the Christian Brotherhood? Really, --- how are you, therefore, different from anyone else and what makes you a favorite servant that others should fall in line with---or under? If we are simply in agreement, then, let's simply be that and go on with it, and you can be 'a Brother'--I'll be the same. I haven't read the 2012 census of "Christian Brothers''...but, I'm sure it's over a hundred. The Other Brothers might be willing to 'agree' with you like I would/ possibly will/ or am... but with more intensity of 'agreement' if that is what you are looking for in me which I don't seem to have by the reprimands given to me. I'm kind of done talking about the 'techniques' of GOD's flaying of my flesh by the agency of another. Enough Flaying Talk, HE's going to really do it.
As to your 'patience'...interestingly, I have had to exert NONE (patience) for you or any of the forum members. THEREFORE, I haven't felt "IMPATIENT" with any of you. Maybe you feel the need to condescend with patience to me. I have thoroughly enjoyed talking and getting what I needed to say 'out' in the forum in what is lacking with MOST Christians---DIALOGUE. I think MHJ is erroneous in his judgements...so, I called him on it. If you are erroneous, I'll call you on it. Which, I am...and, i hope you are feeling my opposition---and, a big 'so what' to this IF I WERE TO BE IN JUDGEMENT OF YOU... which I'm not. There's nothing wrong with the forensic nature of our dialogue...that I've seen.
My final statement is this: you have judged me by telling me and the forum 'my intention' which is NOT my intent. You said that I don't want to 'break bread together elsewhere'.
i need 'qualifying' statements, ifs492a/MHJ. I don't need to 'qualify' Jesus...especially, within the abstract notion that you already have a "Clear'' and "defined'' direct line to understanding my relations with GOD. Believe it or not, I find a lot of what you and MHJ to be very abstract from how i'm thinking---and laden with judgement to boot.
I can't help but to think of the natural islander who loves his/her surroundings and is in tune to their uninterrupted conversation/relations with their participative surroundings...Very possibly, the HOLY SPIRIT is within this Garden with them... THEN... my mental picture holds a ship of Caucasian European Catholic/Puritan Lovers ( me, begrudgingly at times, having been a painful Caucasion one of those) with their vagaries of theosophies, -ologies, -iatries, etc.. ALL too willing to superimpose upon a 'culture' that never needed an 'erroneous-that' ...especially, by FORCE of ignorance ...with guns, knives, brute-strength, volume, and smelliness. "Natural'' means, to me, uninterrupted by man's hands. Clumsy, brute, half-baked, discontiguous, disenfranchised "church-ianity'' that makes me sick to my stomach. I've found peace, IFS492a-MHJ away from a forced 'brotherhood' of polities for the 'sake' of Brotherhood. I have my "Brothers'' and "Sisters''. Is "volume'' what you are looking for? ...I mean... I have anywhere from 10 to 2, 600 that I could call on right now?...that's just to start... I don't know where the Fellowship ends for me? ... Oh, you mean, a 'building' made of man's hands with doors. Yes! I have one of those too! yes! and...Ok, people who walk through the doors and back out again...somehow mentioning the 'name' of GOD in that process...both in and out of those particular doors. Oh, you mean 'consistency' of walking through those doors in the "name'' of Jesus... every week, spot on time... Oh, you mean that... GOD help those who miss a week... if THAT IS the "CHURCH'' the REAL "BODY" of GOD...we're screwed... because GOD would therefore NOT be functioning on Mondays...if there were no service. I understand that 'meetings' or 'gatherings' on spot time are Part of the CHURCH function...and I do this. But, your force of focus, well...it's a very abstract to me. My 'service' is everyday without end... in doors, out doors, naked, not naked, God forbid those to have 'service' naked --- if they are in doors ...because..."service'' must be with people spot on certain days. I'll take my native friends and discuss Jesus...as they have known HIM all of their lives to begin with, via the Holy Spirit.. and NO...i'm NOT a tongue speaking pentecostal... nor do i need the singular, masc. lexical James Strong Greek listing for "tongues'' from your concordance or mine. I got what it means. < not necessarily did I judge you that you would do that... it's the automation of Brownonianism followers that would, indeed, do that with much sufferances to go back to Jim and have show and tell. Again, even that is fine...nearly precious... I just don't like ignorant judgements from men.
One of the shocking things for me was realizing that the Church of Christ had never developed a systematic-Theological body of doctrine...at least when I was in college--me not being a Church of Christ.. I found that neither did the Pentecostals... The multitude of Baptists had abandoned their initial Calvinistic Theology, Methodists had a body of beliefs--or statements of faith. It is in a congruent - systematic body of Doctrine that one can turn to and have an answerable statement of beliefs that is supported by reasonable and sound exegesis from the Biblical Text. I was watching on Netflix last night the documentary-show.."The Daniel Project'' which is simply awesome and horrifically applicable to the "church'' today. Simply, one of the Scholars on the Documentary, being a Bible Believer/Scholar..said that "Christianity today, by and large, consists of people who attend a church somewhere and do not know they're Bible. Not to even mention the Hebrew and Greek.. they don't have a consistent Theology that holds to the English Text
ugh..."Their Bible""...not "They're""----
I finally got a chance to read all of your comments Bro Kyle. The ones before and after my comments. I do agree that I was sounding ambiguous at times. Mark 10:28-30 is the reference scripture I speak of. I agree with much of what you have said. A lot. I feel as though I have been put in the basket with others that cling to the teacher more than CHRIST. (probably because of my not being clear)
I hear/read that He has written his laws on your heart. I'm just grateful to Him to allowing me to meet a brother out there in cyberspace. The truth he put into you has been used of Him to feed me. And to encourage me in the truth. I, personally, enjoy spending time with my family. Had a great time breaking bread with some brothers at applebee's last night. (both kinds of bread) If you're ever passing through NYC, Kyle, you have my email. Agape and phileo brother.
well, lfis492a, --Number One--THANK YOU for reading the 'entirety' of the 'thus so far written' ---this means a lot to me.
Number two... I will contact you within the next month. I do sound tracks for film and I will be gone for a while---either locked in a studio here...or out of town.
I will break bread with you- God Willing--soon!
Thank you, a Lot!
Sol Deo Gloria!
me---
ok, Cylo.
I've never tried to suck anyone into anything before, so... how does it work, Cylo. You say that 'you can suck them into anything'...''''people''', that is. Is your statement of 'sucking people into anything' by your first hand knowledge doing this?--- Or, are you a first hand witness? If you are a first hand witness why, how, why couldn't you 'save' these '''people''' from being sucked into something/ 'the anything'? So, Are you the one sucking people into things...or, are you watching all of this 'sucking of peoples into anything' phenomena without your abilities to help them. Where would you take these 'people' to if they were saved by you from being sucked into the 'anything' ?
I look forward to it bro kyle (the fellowship) In fact if i were to hear from you before you go on your trip i'd like your input on a study we, here in NYC, are doing on this sat. rev 17 in regards to the harlot. Lord willing, i'll speak to you soon bro.
Agape and phileo
i'm going to email you now, lfis492a
Its no wonder so many people hate religion, too many different "gods" and lies. I never claimed I could "save these people from being sucked in" I just said "you can suck people into anything, especially when they are down and out. Humans have been lying to each other for decades. Tell me something, if religion is so god damn wonder ful, then why the hell is the world in such a mess? Could it be that religion is part of the problem and NOT the solution? I don't see this god or allah or muhammed or any other "higher power" intervening when people are being murdered every day because of religion. All I see everyday, is how horrible the human race is, and how manipulative they are to. Religion is nothing more but a money making business, its "organized religion" that people don't need. You kyle jones, also must be another lying Jimmy Swaggart, or that other looser, whats his name that "swindled" people out of thousands.. Look in your own mirror before you judge me. Im not out lying to people, or scaring them with lies and b.s. If you want to be true to others, then stop begging for handouts for the church. Religion should be FREE.
I never judged you. I responded to your claims that ""People are Suckers''''. Now, THAT, is a judgement. So, based on YOUR judgement, you set yourself as judge. You must know 'people' since you said that ""PEOPLE"" are 'suckers'. You set yourself up as judge by stating these 'maxims'. These are your judgements, not mine, Cylo.
You just equated me with Jimmy Swaggart. Therefore, on the same INSANE grounds that you judge me I will equate you with a Child Molester. SO, we can now start discussing how foul you are, and how foul things are in the world, right? I mean, after all, you can deal with someone else falsely accusing you for being something that you're not...and THEN, begin a 'dialogue' with them, right? You actually might be a child molester, I don't know...maybe a wife beater...heck..
As to Jimmy Swaggart, I discard Jimmy Swaggart as a teacher of God's words. He has preyed upon the Millions for revenue and is a false teacher.
So, let's get to the 'grit' of your mind---and one by one, if you don't mind...you see, since I'm religious (actually, you are too, ..you see--the word 'religion' has a deep etymological root that stems from the Latin--and furthered by the older Greek--'religion' simply means ' a mode by which someone does something with consistency [ 'threskia' in the Greek -- 'a mode of operation' / Religio- 'a connection of threads/ a corded rope} ], and therefore, i must be bad...therefore, i must not be thinking right...so, help me, Cylo. Be slow and methodical about it, please...cause, I'm asking for your help. Oh, yeah...since you breathe, you are religious...it's what you do consistently.. This makes you bad? The word 'idiot' comes to mind when I'm reading your words. "idiot'' means a person who gets to themselves and makes isolated judgements. Look up the etymological root for 'idiot'. That would reference your style.
Ok, FIRST question: oh, wait a minute, if you're religious, then you're bad and therefore, your judgements couldn't be right...so, relatively, to all that I've said...I dismiss you. Next please.
Toyota - I taught you about tooth Fairies. They're more existent than your intellect. Take a ride to a place that has your kind of reason. You'll find disturbed people there. You're grammar sucks.
forgive the correct type---'Your grammar sucks'
---and, ...Toyota fan, I read all your mumblings. You have said nothing but slang foppish-knavish foolishness. How can you be this stupid and own a computer? Seriously, Toyota, you really are a dolt. Stop writing, stop talking... stop. You're truly an idiot. So, now, you can write the same imbecilic ramblings without substance. Go ahead, Toyota...you show the waste of energies that your 'kind' of assailant miscreants do. Just type and let those who have sense read and know.
I would encourage everyone to listen to Jim Brown on you tube.. ANY of his lectures/ classes. I've have only seen assault on his style. I've never heard/ seen anyone correct him on direct quotes and disprove what Jim exegetes/ parses--whatever. SO, the challenge to any one out there reading this is simple: Find ANY video out of the hundreds that Jim has taught on and find an erroneous 'to the min-sec. statement' FROM the video that EVERYONE can watch/ access easily and try to correct him. The PROBLEM with ANYONE here on this forum and anyone elsewhere that has insulted or ridiculed Jim has ALWAYS been on 'style' or 'presentation' of Jim's demeanor/ or, idiotic statements from atheists or agnostics or other that don't know ENOUGH about the "GOD" they insult. They insult a 'god' of their mind which CAN BE KNOCKED OVER. So, I stated my challenge. I'm not adding or taking away from this nor do I do bargains with anyone. Remember, I'm not a church member nor do I have any affiliation with his church or Jim.
http://www.graceandtruth.net/videos-pdf-mp3s/videos
I have read this entire thread, and spoiler alert! "myheroisjesus" is in fact Dave Tuckmantel!
is that true? if it is---i have not discrepancy towards this forum and MHJ---but I'd ask MHJ if this is true for the sake of MHJ's intention and association with Grace and Truth Ministries.
Kyle you are 100% correct. He shouldn't hide behind a fake name to confuse us of the original point to this topic. He lives near Hendersonville, TN and "MHJ's" IP address is coming from Old Hickory, which is literally right next door. Yeah, he is trying to hide under this alias. (nothing new there)! A drug dealer/addict and bi-sexual, speaking the words of God, he makes me sick! Don't get sucked into conversations with him, he is just using you to cover the original topic!
Thanks for the diligence, Topix! These are my final words: We all have different 'offices'. When speaking of "offices''...we speak of "separate'' jobs or functions. Hences, "office'' or separate from something else in order to do a specific function. Take for example this: I was a Marine...but I wouldn't apply 'deployment' procedures on my own family. In the Ministry, there are different "offices'' as has been told to us in 2 Timothy 2:24 --" an overseer of the Church is to be gentle WITH EVERYONE and NOT QUARRELSOME with EVERYONE.."...
So was there free will of Eve when she took the apple according to the Grace and Truth?
lol! Andy! ...I did a lecture at Vanderbilt on 66 terms for "free" and "will'' from/in the original Greek (pagan/ Christian). We, if 'we' are---as ** Baptist-Methodist-Catholicized - Western-21st cent.-American society ** wanting to "concoct' (using our 'lessen-than' American language) a 'doctrine' that says that EVE or ANYONE else can break the laws of momentum -Established by a Sovereign God... then, go ahead. I have 66 reasons-back by the Greek that say you don't have the ability to 'speak' about 'free-will' as a viable term if you are linguistically and spiritually sane...let alone being sane. I'm not here attacking you, Andy...at all...i'm only saying. No. Eve does not have your ''''idea'''' of "free will''''.
---put it like this: Read about the REALITY (-ies) of set laws within Thermodynamics...THEN, 'create' your own personal 'terms, ideas, wordages, dialogues, etc...that go 'against' the rules, laws, etc of Thermodynamics. THEN, speak your fabled terms, ideas, wordages, dialogues, etc. to other people. THEN, create a "theology'' based on your isolated-personal 'terms, ideas, wordages, dialogues, etc...THEN, create a "churchianity'' based on your "terms, ideas, wordages, dialogues, etc. and let "that thing'' that you fabricated grow into a institution of 'religion'. Well, two things: 1) your 'errors' --would be definitively expressed by the Hebrew - Kabal - Abbadon - Ra'h... meaning: 'useless, out of truth's sight, failure to comprehend, apprehend, fit, signify. / 2) Your 'missing the mark' of intelligent design --Greek: 'ananke' or dwelling in the bramble and thorns-- was part of the entropic design that GOD put you in. "Free Will'' is a term that - in all 66 cases (see my "anatomy of Will lectures 1-7) cannot, does not make grammatical or social 'sense'.
If she had no free will by that I mean she could not take the apple (of whatever that actually was), then why it was considered by God as a SIN? It's a predestination, then. Doom. So you think God doomed all of us to burn forever in fire while saying it's our fault when it's not provided there was no free will.
In that case I guess we are all creatures of hell, not God.
eleutheros?, ballein, ?, thumea, ?
AndyEi. You are presumptive. You "think'' your 21st century 'terms' '''fit'''' into the Theology that is presented in the original New Testament Greek Text 2 thousand years ago. They don't.
an author determines the book. when it is finished it is then read.
you are using the term 'free' as meaning: ""without constraint"". You are 'constrained' NOT to do everything else except what you are 'exactly' doing now.
"Doom'' ? ..huh? read Tolkien's treatment on "Doom''. It means "Dominion''. Yes, God, is my "Dominate''.
you said, "So, you think God 'doomed' all of us to burn.." ?! what.. When, where, wha? ...
Well, WHAT you are REALLY doing, ANDY, is '''''reacting'''''' to what you "THINK"" i am thinking .
What's worse than that is you are unable to think clearly because you are '''in''' a system of thought that makes you presumptuous. You presumed a '''formula''' for setting upon me (and yourself).
"Fatalism'' means an organized pattern to death. Predestination means a glorious understanding of why we must suffer and suffer in a Great Plan to Life and Salvation.
Either you get serious and more humble with your approach or it will be impossible to talk anymore to you.
No wonder people hate religion so much, it just makes one angry and suspicious.
cylo, you really just can't read. I get it now. That's why you can't respond to anything but the foppery that takes place in your mind.
I heard another Texas preacher tell his congregation that if they did not believe what he said they were stupid. I think this is a style of 'preaching'. I don't like it because it's a style and not a semiotic or socially sensible component to the context of a teaching/ learning scenario. Call someone stupid while you're having a dialogue in a church and see if the Preacher's bravado starts to lose his income more quickly than the blanket 'stupid' remarks he makes in a pulpit < which is a 'flare' or show of the draw back to 1800's gun-slinging Texan- whether preacher or gun slinger--- Texan.
---let me re-state this. Let a minister get down from his pulpit and into the congregation and tell face to face his congregation that they, individually, are stupid because they can't understand something. What this means is that 'their WILL to comprehend something wasn't strong enough-in contrast to the mental might or will of the Preacher''. < Jim does deny GOD's Sovereignty when he calls someone stupid. If GOD ordained someone to be stupid but be a good street paver- well, thank GOD for our even and straight streets... y'know what I'm saying? To call someone ""STUPID"" is to deny that GOD made them that way for now.
This is an example, in my opinion, where Jim does go off the mark.