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Leadership Team Development / Scam and cheating

1 United States Review updated:
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Yesterday I was interviewed for LTD and asked to attend a talk which would give me more details about the company (I didn't even get the name of the company until I asked). I wasn't allowed to keep the rep's brochure for 'tax purposes, ' so I knew something seemed out of place. Still, the talk was free, so I thought it couldn't hurt.

It was revealed during the talk that the 'supplier' of LTD's products is Amway, and as a contractor, the main source of my income would be getting new recruits, rather than selling products. The speaker literally spent about two minutes explaining how LTD and Amway are not pyramid scams (technically they aren't, but they're darn close), and then proceeded to confuse the definitions of a pyramid and a Ponzi scheme.

The worst part was that my current employment situation was used as an example of how bad the economy is, and how it's not as good a means of support as LTD. This is personal information that I did not give the speaker permission to share (he used my name in the presentation). I was later asked questions for demonstrative purposes that I gladly answered, but I still did not appreciate the first time I was used for his presentation.

LTD is supposed to be a web-based business, but it was clear that the speaker does not understand how eCommerce works. LTD's business model appears very weak, and requires constant recruitment to maintain any kind of cash flow. They create 'alternative' websites for companies to sell products, but why would a company need them? If a company can sell a product from its own online store, it makes no sense to pay someone else to sell it for them.

I was honestly tempted to just stand up and warn everyone in the room about this obvious MLM scam, but I opted to cause a scene and instead posted here. I hope the people who attended the talk get a chance to read this.

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  • Tm
      1st of May, 2009
    -2 Votes

    This past year, I have been interviewed by many of my friends regarding the Leadership Team Development job opportunity. All of these friends have sat down with me and given me a 20-minute speech about the large corporations that Leadership Team Development (LTD) is affiliated with. A couple of these "corporate affiliates" included such large companies as Circuit City and Bass Pro, and during the first seminar that my friends invited me to attend, I learned that there are over 1100 "large-corporate affiliates" that LTD has partnered with. Now, during my friends' 20-minute speeches, I was told that what they were going to tell me during our meeting was going to be vague, and that in order to learn more, I would have to attend that first seminar that I mentioned above. The questions that they asked me were, "Are you interested in this opportunity?" and "Are you interested in making additional income?" After I answered "yes" to both of those questions, there was no further information given to me, and any questions that I asked were answered with this phrase:

    'The object of this meeting was to give you a small amount of information so that you can gauge whether or not you were interested in getting more information. Now that you are showing interest, all you have to do is say, "I am interested in learning more and getting more information." Upon doing that, I will invite you to a seminar that will answer all of your questions.'

    Well, upon hearing that response and not getting clear responses or any further answers from my friends, I reluctantly said yes to attending the meeting.

    At the meeting, a well-dressed and well-spoken gentlemen gave a lecture about how participating in LTD's job opportunity can potentially make me money. To me, it was very unclear. Here is what he talked about:

    The first thing he mentioned was that most people are employees employed by employers, and as such, they are gaining 'active' income. Then he discussed how 'active' income is negative income in the fact that the employee only receives monies for the hours that the employee is actively working at his or her job. Then the gentlemen introduced a business system that was supposedly a much better method of attaining income than actively working for an employer is. This business system was essentially equivalent to a franchise. For example, the man used McDonald's. If you look at McDonald's, when the owner first started it and saw that people were consuming his product and giving him revenue, he decided to 'maximize his time.' Here is how he did it--while he worked at his original McDonald's location and kept it open for ten hours a day, the most he could gain in revenues would be $100. Well the owner of McDonald's wanted to earn more, so he opened up nine identical McDonald's locations and hired one manager to run each new location exactly the way he ran his location. In order to do this, they would have to keep each location open for ten hours a day. So, while the owner of McDonald's only had to work for ten hours a day and run only his location, each of the nine other locations added a net total of 90 additional hours and an additional $900--making his total net profit for the day $1000 . As such, the owner of McDonald's increased his profits ten-fold while personally putting in the same amount time that he put in before when he was only making $100 a day. As such, his revenue did not equal the number of hours that he worked, it equaled the way he maximized his time.

    Now, after the gentleman finished that spiel, I wondered what I would be doing, how I would be maximizing my time, and most importantly, how I would be making money. And here is the way I interpreted the gentleman's response:

    Because the internet is being more widely used in today's era, companies are wanting to use it to market their products/services and gain more revenue. The problem with this is that when they enter the internet market, they lose customer loyalty (and as a result, potential revenue) because customers are able to find the same products/services for cheaper prices with other companies who are using the internet, too. So here is how you and I would fit into this picture and make money for ourselves...First we would pay $200 and join the 'team.' By doing that, we would be making an agreement that we would be providing the "large-company affiliates" with our future customer loyalty. This means that we would loyally buy our every-day purchases through the "large-company affiliates." As such, since we would be providing the "large-company affiliates" with customer loyalty (which equals guaranteed profit for them), they would be willing to compensate us by paying us a certain percentage of the profits that they would acquire through us. This means that every time we would buy one of their products, we would be getting some of the money that we had spent back. This Sounded like a good deal until I heard the numbers. The ratio that the gentleman presented in the seminar was that you would receive $1 for every $300 spent.

    So my question was, why would I want to spend $300 in order to only get $1 back from them? He explained to me that I wouldn't and that this is where the franchise derived business system comes into play. So here is what I would do:

    I would recruit new people, as much as I could, and as they would spend money for these companies, because I brought the companies more loyal customers, I would gain a percentage of the profits that they gained from my recruitees (the more loyal customers). So for every $300 that each of my recruitees would spend for these companies, I would get $1. Also, on top of all of that, each recruitee would pay an initial one-time fee of $200, which I would get for recruiting them. So based on this information, I would have to recruit 300 people, and each of those people would have to spend $300 a month with these "affiliate corporations, " and if that happened, and only if that happened, then I would get $300 for that month. That doesn't seem like a lot, but when you factor in the $200, you get $200 times 300 people equals $60, 000. Then you add that to $300 a month times twelve months in a year ($3, 600) and get $63, 600 for that year. This is not bad, and it makes sense. On top of that, the gentlemen explains that most people are able to make closer to $80, 000 after their first year, which happens after they successfully complete a twelve to sixteen month project (which I presume is recruiting as much people as you can).

    I am not sure if this is an actual scam or not, but it does seem like one, and a very enticing one, too. I am going to do some more research, go to another meeting, and talk to my already-experienced friends some more before I make my decision, and I am going to ask them some hard questions. If they won't answer these questions to my satisfaction, then I am going to unfortunately not partake in this "money-making" opportunity (which will cost them a potential $200).

  • Tm
      1st of May, 2009
    -1 Votes

    By the way, they say that in order to be successful, you would only have to put in 5 to 15 hours of work in a week. To me, it seems that if I am going to be trying to recruit people, get them to pay $200, and not think that this whole thing is a scam, then I am going to have to be a really good speaker who markets the idea well and sufficiently answers potential recruitees answers, and I will have to 'pound the pavement' trying to interview people and get them to follow through. As such, I would probably venture to guess that in order to be really successful at this, you need to work at least forty hours a week--basically a full time job. So again, while this might not be a scam and has the potential for being profitable, the way the information is presented to potential recruitees is skewed and highly over exaggerated. So when it seems like it is too good to be true, it probably is.

  • 71
      20th of May, 2009
    +1 Votes

    I agree with the following above comments. This is a pyramid scheme and the so called "business model" is set up for failure. I just attended a meeting in Charlotte, NC and they prey on individuals using psychology of making your money work for you. "You are self guided...where do you want to be." They also used the MacDonald's example in the meeting. I will deem this as laymen terms to justify a buy-strategy, where you can ultimately purchase a "franchise" get more recruits and let your money work for you. I looked around and found that most of the audience composition was 20-year-olds and tell the the following:

    Heed my advice, I have seen the American Dream at work through my mother. She had little to her name 3 kids and a single mother, but more determination than any I have ever met. She got two degrees (going back after her kids) and landed a fairly decent job. She was debt free and invested and saved her money. She replicated her investments by hard work (small businesses, real estate, and the investment markets). Thus, she is a self made millionaire on her own right.

  • Rl
      8th of Jun, 2009
    +6 Votes

    This is funny only b/c of the fact that every time I see someone post a NEGATIVE aspect about this business model, every person fails to mention the following:

    1.) If this is a scam..why would CO. such as Nike, Barnes and Noble, Panasonic, Sony, Disney, (there's actually 3k+ diff. companies) agree to sell there products in association with Amway?

    2.) This is not a get rich quick program. But the things presented in those meetings are not false. Why? b/c it's an optional based business. People who sit around and say it's a scam will of course not profit from anything b/c they're [censored] isn't actually doing anything to profit from. (other than complaining).

    3.) Not only is the first statement I made one good reason why this ISN'T a scam, but this next one is too. People don't "recruit" anybody, they simply just want to know if you're looking to make extra money. (And yes, you can make money, but it depends on your efforts) But the main point of this is that the person that sponsored you doesn't necessaraly make more money than you. Depending on how you build YOUR business, you are able to make more money than anyone else. (there are certain things to follow in order to do so, and that being bonuses)

    4.) People say how much of a scam this is when they don't really see the insight of what is really going on. They don't understand the concept of the plan and just automatically think that it's a scam. Why do people think that? Because that's how America runs; anything out of the ordinary, and people freak. (that meaning a different MIND SET)

    5.) And I'll end with this. Because people are, and if you think about it, all in the same average working class and taught to go to college and get a good career, how much are you in debt? Between college loans starting on the low end of the totem poll and all your taxes, you'll be in debt forever, this is no lie. But here's something to think about. If you think this is a scam and people higher than you make more, you couldn't be more wrong. At your job, think of your managers, they're getting paid more than you, of course, and the people above them, and so on. But if someone were to get fired or let go, who would be the first to go? Probably your boss b/c they're too much of an expense, or yourself and other co-workers at a mass lay off. But usually the people in the higher ups are ok b/c they have more say. So from what I've already stated, think about your job, Who is on the top of your pyramid?

    Oh and before I forget, L.T.D. is a mentorship program only to help you succeed and grow your business at what you want to do with it. But if all you want to do is whine and complain about this being a "scam" then it obvoiusly didn't work out for you b/c you didn't have the backbone to actually see it for what it's worth.

  • Po
      8th of Jun, 2009
    Best Best Advice +9 Votes

    RLP, how much money have you actually made with LTD, subtracting all the money you've spent signing up and registering for conferences?

    And how much time have you spent working with them, interviewing people, etc?

    You're probably making around $2 an hour. Pitiful.

  • Rl
      8th of Jun, 2009
    -3 Votes

    I'm not evening going to go into all the detail b/c you wouldn't understand. If you want to look at it in such a negative way, then go ahead, I'm not one to argue. I can tell you that it isn't based on an hourly wage and b/c I see it differently, I don't see it as a job like someone else would, or what you may think it is. B/c you don't know what it's even about or how it's even orcastrated, it would be impossible to sit here and try to explain it to someone who wouldn't have an open mind about it. And fyi, it's a business system, not a traditional business.

  • 71
      9th of Jun, 2009
    +4 Votes

    The government stepped in beforehand and said the whole pyramid scheme was a scam by a company called Quitar...guess what LTD is? A brand repositioning like firestone turned to bridgestone. All those people who were on top using the pyramid scheme lost all there investment resources such as time, money and recruiters. If the government steps in and deems this illegal, the same thing will happen. Where as if you do get laid off, or fired because of your "expense" you can take away that experience to another job; versus you cannot take any of the experience with Amway. Furthermore, I am a research manager for a firm in Charlotte, so flashy lights with psychology will not work with me. I operate under cold hard facts. The person trying to recruit me has been doing it for 2 years, and in the pitch, if you have been doing it for 2 years then you cannot make less $250, 000 (and I quote). He still stays in an apartment complex barely making his monthly payments (he does this full time). Dont say he does not do it correctly or does not have the proper mentoring skills because he is very good at what he does...I mean very good salesman. Furthermore, if the website is in the north america and as popular as you say it is...then it would have a higher traffic rank higher than 100, 000. University of South Carolina has more traffic rank than that. This site has more traffic than that.

    Furthermore, Quitar and Amyway has been in the midst of bad press, pr and stigmas in previous years. I spoke with my relatives about Amyway. Once I stated the name, their first reaction was stay away! You can make money, that part is true, but at the expense of scamming your friends, family and acquaintances. RLP if you make money I hope you sleep well at night.

  • Ca
      30th of Jun, 2009
    +3 Votes

    The best part of RLP's speech is his first response on #2. "Why? b/c it's an optional based business. People who sit around and say it's a scam will of course not profit from anything b/c they're [censored] isn't actually doing anything to profit from. "They're [censored]"?... more like you're a [censored]... Seriously though Wal-mart is like 20% cheaper... You pretty much can't put it better then the last guy... Get a real job...

  • Lc
      25th of Jan, 2017
    -2 Votes

    @CashTubb Yes, a JOB! A job where you get told when, where to be and what time to be there. 20% cheaper but will Walmart give you any percent at all back for what you paid there? No, you get a smiley face sticker and thank you for coming, come again. So go ahead and work at your job. I am becoming young, wealthy, and free in my mid 20's. I hope you're retired by the age of 60! It's no recruiting. It's a filtering process. If someone got paid for you to get in it would be illegal and the Better Business Buerau wouldn't have given them an A+ rating for the past half plus decade. But, continue to live your life the way the average person does and continue to have a negative mindset. The way to a better lifestyle is having a change of better mentality.

  • Go
      11th of Jul, 2009
    -3 Votes

    Hello all you Amway, Quitar (still don’t know what that is!), Quixtar, Alticor, LTD, and FREE ENTERPRISE Bashers out there!!
    This essay was written in response to the following web blog:

    First and foremost... what in the world is Quitar?!? Wow! That is too funny!

    To 7109pooky:
    Do you realize how weak your argument really is? What kind of credibility do you have? You operate on cold hard facts... correct?

    Are you an expert in the business field? Are you an expert at determining whether or not a business is legitimate or not? If you were, you would not have wasted your time and effort to write on a foolish web blog because I will prove to you all throughout this essay that this is a legitimate business and just how silly some of your arguments that you write.

    Why don’t you look up Amway Global with the Better Business Bureau, or how about the Federal Trade Commission. If you did, or will you will find that they have outstanding ratings as this corporation has been around for over 50 years now. Those two organizations are responsible for monitoring and looking into businesses of all sorts. How credible can you really be when you cannot even spell the name of the SUPPLIER of this franchise CORRECTLY?! I think that you are referring to QUIXTAR.COM.

    That is the web domain for the Amway Global organization. Do you people even understand how a franchise even works? Back in the 1950's when Ray Kroc (Founder of McDonalds) started his franchise run, Congress took up a vote to decide whether or not that was a ''Legal" way to do business. Since you all are expert 'googlizers', you can help yourself and research how congress voted on this business model.

    Wal-Mart is sued thousands upon thousands of times a year, yet they remain to be the #1 retailing store in the WORLD. Because they are sued and some people do not like Wal-Mart, does that stop people from shopping there? I haven’t looked, but does Wal-Mart have a bashing blog site too?

    Can you imagine our world WITHOUT franchises? That would mean, no hotel chains, no fast food restaurants, no gas stations with the same names… Do you catch my drift? Franchises work because they all operate on the same business model. If you drew out that, I PROMISE you it will look like Ray Kroc the founder of McDonalds looks like he was a pyramiding fool. Listen here champ; I’m sure you have never thought about the fast food chain being a scam… have you? The next time you fill up your gas tank I almost guarantee it will be at a franchised gas station. Do you have a problem giving your HARD EARNED MONEY towards that scam as well? You all make points about what you perceive and what your “supposed knowledge” consists of and you offer very very weak arguments. If I had enough time and energy, I could tear each of them down.

    That is not my purpose. My purpose is to get some real facts, some real evidence that the ### of the internet is posting in online blogs where any idiot can write whatever they feel like without stating any credibility… can hide behind a screen name… and provide false claims.

    Here’s a question. Do you realize that Amway Global has business contracts with over 3, 000 businesses? Several of which are a part of the Fortune 500 Club. Do you think that the Disney CEO is a smart man when it comes to business? How about the Barns N Noble CEO… What about DICK’S Sporting Goods? Newsflash… those 3 stated business are in partnership with Amway Global and How foolish are you to believe that DISNEY for all companies for goodness sake would be involved in anything ILLEGAL!

    You people make claims… These are fine, but provide everyone in the universe some evidence. How about starting with some COLD HARD FACTS.

    If any one of you "Nay Say er's” would do some legitimate research for what actually classifies an illegal pyramid from a legal business you might be able to understand why this business is not an Illegal Pyramid. Yes, people do make money off of people. Let me ask you all of you a question. Do you have a job? If you answer yes, then who do you make money for? If you do not own your place of employment who makes money off of you? You obviously do not have a problem with it if you continue to work for your employer. If you quit going to work, your check would quit coming in. Period. Newsflash, you aren't getting paid money for how ridiculously good looking you think you are. You get paid because you are providing a good or service for someone and they are making money off of you!

    If you want to call the Amway Global business model an ''illegal pyramid scheme'' then do me a favor and illustrate on a piece of paper how OUR United States Military is constructed. You have the general at the top, then the commanders, then the different branches, and finally the infantry, but don’t forget about the cooks and the people that do all grunt work. That sure looks and resembles a pyramid. Ordering the most important at the top and working your way down.

    Now, why don’t you draw out your job. If you aren't the CEO or business owner of your company, I promise you that will look like and resemble a pyramid.

    You are open to take the worst advice from the most broke people in America. That's a reality. I know for a fact that people take the "Freedom of Speech" to the extreme limits. Because Billy Bob in Trailer Park Trails goes and works a dead end job 40 hours a week and he receives a paycheck at the end of the week does this make him an expert on making money? If you want the lifestyle and job that Billy Bob has, be my guest and go ask him what he thinks of this business model. You are open to take the WORST advice from the worst people in this country. Thinking about it, Billy Bob might be open to this business opportunity as he might not try to make something illegal out of something that is legal.

    Let me ask all of you blabbering idiots you this. If you want to be a surgeon or a medical doctor and you ask your factory working father for advice and he tells you "You'll never make it; you aren't smart enough; it costs too much money to make it..." Then on the flipside of that coin you go straight to a surgeon and ask his opinion of what to do to become a surgeon. Do you realize what he will tell you? That surgeon will instruct you on the steps needed to be successful, what he did, how to do it, how to study, how to make it.

    How about a kid who wants to be a professional baseball player? Do you think that he is going to listen to his friends and the local parent’s advice telling him that he's not good enough and he'll never make it? What if the kid has access to get hitting and field lessons from a Derek Jeter, or an Albert Puljos? What do you think Jeter or Puljos will tell him? No, kid you'll never make it. HECK NO!

    I can use hundreds upon hundreds of examples!!

    If you want to succeed in this type of business, do you understand that reward is based on work, association, and learning how to change your mental thought process? This comes from the mentorship team and leaders who have had nothing at one point too. Folks, who are you going to listen to? The arm chair critic? Or the man in the arena who has already accomplished where you are wanting to go? Figure it out.

    You can write and hide your garbage online here and hope that people read this, well let me tell you something. You do not have the backbone, or spine to stand up for what you believe in.

    ANTHONY WRITES ON 4-15-2009:
    "I was honestly tempted to just stand up and warn everyone in the room about this obvious MLM scam, but I opted to cause a scene and instead posted here. I hope the people who attended the talk get a chance to read this."
    My reply... Anthony, if you have any courage and wit about yourself, you would not choose to get your message out to people about this ''supposed scam'' through an online public forum. I wish you would have jumped up and made a scene. That would have been a lot more exciting and enticing to read than, I opted not to. You have no backbone, and are a weak person to post on a blog that this business is illegal and false. Weak people do not make it in this business. I am not naive enough say that this business is for everyone, but you prove my point that people who do not have thick skin and a backbone make it.

    This question goes out to all of you supposed experts out there. Define an illegal pyramid. WORD FOR WORD. Can you off the top of your head? Honestly, if you could, then you would not have even begun to post that this business model is false and phony.

    Since you skeptics are un-familiar with how a real pyramid scheme works, allow me to tell you how.
    *head-hunting fees are paid, in other words… money is paid out for recruiting
    *there are minimum purchase requirements to get in or continue
    *there are NO sales of legitimate products or services to those outside of the organization

    Anthony, gut check here… Since you have been to a board plan and have seen the Federal Trade Commission’s approved 6-4-2 marketing plan… it should be plain as day that THIS BUSINESS is NOT an illegal pyramid. There are NO head-hunting fees; NO money is made off of registering a new member; and there are NO minimum purchase requirements for a member or a customer. Purchase of any product or service is 100% optional.

    Ignorance + “so called intelligence” = Arrogance.

    ***… A message to all prospecting Independent Business Owners…***
    You are open to take advice from anyone you want. That is your choice. But let me ask all of you reading this web posting this. If you are interested in becoming in business with Amway Global and have goals and dreams that you wish to accomplish in life… Do me a favor and do some legitimate research. Be sensitive what you read, what you hear, and whom you get your information from.

    *I will post this link to as many Amway Global bashing sites as possible with hopes to provide some legitimate information for the people who wish to read. Please… if anyone does wish to reply, how about you hit the spell check button, and make sure your sentences have complete thoughts. We only have your written word to read. Don’t make yourself out to be a bigger idiot than what we can figure out for ourselves. Thanks, God Bless, and Go Diamond!

  • Be
      13th of Jul, 2009
    +3 Votes

    just be honest and look at the situation with a sincere heart. forget how you feel about it, its a business that does not operate out of love.

  • Sa
      14th of Jul, 2009
    0 Votes

    In regards to 'godiamond'. Thank you for your words on the subject of Amway and Quixtar. I will do my own research on the companies and the information listed above. Your explination makes since and although I would leave the generic name calling out of comments like this, I can appreciate the level of injustice you feel when such comments are made about something you believe in. I have done things in my business career that friends have said "You shouldn't have done "x" because we know 'this' and we know 'that'." I beleive that each person should make their own decisions in life and the only thing anyone else should do is: look into themselves, keep their nose in their own corner, or supply the 'individual that is in the wrong' with cold hard facts (i.e. 2+2=4), not just opinions. Maybe that is why I never liked debate (too many opinions floating down a drain). Look me up if you get the chance. Love to talk more. IBO - sand box fanatic

  • Lt
      15th of Jul, 2009
    -4 Votes

    I LOVE to hear and read negative thoughts about the Amway Global and L.T.D. partnerships. It makes me even stronger in my beliefs. This business model was purposely designed for people who are looking to better themselves and their lifestyles. There is a new system that we use to filter out people like these who have such negative thoughts. AND which by the way, you negative people will always be average if not below average. You will always have the same life. Do you know what happens to people who constantly do the same thing over and over again? They never go anywhere. They keep getting the same results.

    "Fear of criticism is the kiss of death, in the courtship of achievement. THOSE WHO CAN - DO! THOSE WHO CANNOT - CRITICIZE!"

    "Everybody wants a lifestyle change. Everybody wants financial change, but they refuse to change themselves."

    These people you see who are writing these blogs are LOSERS. A chinese proverb says "A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the publics opinion." The reason there are more broke people in America than wealthy, is simply because of the way we think and the way we were taught. All your life your told to go to school, get good grades so you can go to college and get a good "job". That to me is the biggest scam of all. We weren't taught to go to school, and learn how to be indepently wealthy. To have a good business sense. If you think broke you will always be broke. Instead surround yourself with people who are actually making money and not trading it for time. 95% of Americans trade time for money. Meaning that if they stop working, the money stops. OR if they have money they have no time to enjoy it. WAKE UP PEOPLE!! STOP BELIEVEING THE BULLSHYIT!!!

    If Amway was a scam it wouldnt be in business with such LARGE companys that the one guy spoke of. NOT ONLY THAT but do any of you know who owns the Orlando Magic or the arena they play in? YOU GUESSED IT, AMWAY!! This company has been around for 50 years and is completely debit free!! They profited $8.2 billion last year. When other companys were falling and filing bankrupt, they PROFITED!!! Do you understand that? Do you see the stability? Do you know how many people that are wealthy in this business? Its not scaming people when you ask them to join this business, your helping this person achieve their dream. To me thats worth more than money.

    I want you negative people, or people who are thinking of joining this business to do something. Think back on the last 5 years of your life. Are you better off, still the same, or worse than you were? If you answered yes then you need to think about that. Also think about the next 5 years of your life. Do you have a goal? Do you have a dream? Do you know what your future will be? If you dont know the answer to these questions then you need to think about that. This business can give you hope. It can change your life.

    Just remember this, if you are afraid of criticism, you will die doing nothing. Criticism is a compliment when you know what you're doing is right. People can hear and see as many good things about one thing as many times as they want. But as soon as they see or hear ONE negative thing then omg it must be bad. STOP the way your thinking. OPEN YOUR MIND. READ A ###ING BOOK people. This business is simple. People who over think it make NO money.

    One thing I want to share before i end this is to show you what history has shown us. And think about where we would be if critiicism affected everyones thought process throught history.

    "There is no reason for any indivisual to have a computer in his/her home." - Kenneth Olson, Digital Equipment, 1977

    "Radio has no future. Heavier-than-air flying are impossible. X-rays will prove to be a hoax. I have not the smallest molecule of faith in aerial navigation other than ballooning." - William Thomson (1824-1907) English scientist, president of the Royal Society

    "While theoretically and technically television may be feasable, commerically and financially I consider it an impossibility, a development of which we need waste little time dreaming." - Lee Deforest (1873-1961) American Inventor

    "The (flying) machines will eventually be fast; they will be used in sport, but they should not be thought of as commercial carriers." - Octave Chanute (1832-1910) French aviation pioneer

    "Man will never reach the moon reguardless of all the future scientific advances." - Dr. Lee de Forest, inventor of the vacuum tube and father of television

    "Who would want to hear actors talk?" - Harry M. Warner (1881-1958) founder, Warner Bros. Studio (in 1927, considering the possibility of taling pictures)

    Thinking differently? I hope so. GO DIAMOND!!!

  • Lt
      15th of Jul, 2009
    -4 Votes

    Another thing, to clear up the whole when you sign up it cost $200 and that goes to your sponser.

    #1. THIS IS NOT A PYRAMID SCHEME!! The $200 for one, is to go towards you registration into the L.T.D. system which gives you everything you need to run your business and Amway Global so that you will be able to order your products (if your in amway you get a discount by the way) and your ID so that you can make money. For two, NOBODY gets this money or a percent of this money. Your sponser DOES NOT GET ANYTHING FOR SPONSERING YOU and getting you in. Your sponser makes nothing off the people you bring in. What your sponser does benifit from is the points aquired by you and your team to help them. AMWAY PAYS THEM AND YOU AND GIVES BONUSES TO THEM FOR YOU DOING GOOD!

    Like the guy above said, you can make more than the higest person in this business depending on how you build your business. I will more than likely make more than my sponser because my work ethic might be higher than his. WHEN YOU JOIN, YOU WORK FOR NO ONE. Your sponser is not your boss. YOU are your boss. You cannot be fired, the only way that would happen is if you quit on yourself and stop. In which you fire yourself. The people that have been in the business 2-5 years and havent made more than an extra $500 a month is simply because they arent working as hard as they could. You make the results of your business. AND even if you were only making an extra $500 a month, thats $500 more than if you werent doing anything at all. Get it?

    Anyway im done.

  • Di
      18th of Jul, 2009
    -3 Votes

    For all of those out there that wish to speak negatively and spend your time thinking negatively, I sincerely pray that your thought processes change throughout your life, otherwise negativity is the only thing you've got coming. With everything going on in the government, it's time we realize that we need to take control of our own lives and finances if we're going to get ourselves out of this terrible debt. Speaking of debt...were you aware that Amway Global is an 8 Billion dollar company, with 50 years experience, is privately held and debt free? What does that mean? Amway Global is not effected by the decline of the stock markets...and these days, that's something of immeasurable value. Not to mention, Amway Global products are AMERICAN MADE. While they may be more expensive than "Walmart", as referred to in previous comments, the quality of their products greatly surpass that of the competition. You can't compare apples to oranges, you first have to convert them to fruit. We're not talking about Saturn or Honda here people, we're talking about Lexus. Can anyone tell me where most Walmart products are made? Certainly not America. If more people where in the Amway Global business FOR THEMSELVES, selling AMERICAN products, this economy would be out of its rut faster than swine flu can spread.

    Now I have to say that I WAS skeptical when I first saw this business plan. But I am an intelligent, educated person with a Masters degree, and I'd like to think that I can make an informed, researched decision quite well on my own. After doing some RESEARCH (not an uninformed critique), I found that this business system is 100% backed by the Better Business Bureau, and is NOT a pyramid SCHEME. Does it have a pyramid structure? Sure. What job doesn't? I'm pretty sure the head guy at your job had to work his way up that pyramid. Why would I want to work for a job where someone else is going to dictate how much I'm worth? Or work 80 hours a week just to get one step ahead? Now THAT sounds like a pyramid scheme. Ugh, I don't have enough time to get into the details of all of this...but I just wanted to say for those of you that are you OWN research, have an open mind, and don't listen to every Joe Schmoe on the block that thinks he knows everything. Chances are he isn't very successful himself because he doesn't think outside the box. Look at the successful people you know...what have they done? I'm guessing something different than everyone else...because "If you want something you've never had, you've got to do something you've never done." AMEN

  • 71
      20th of Jul, 2009
    +7 Votes

    Thank you for responding.

    This is solely for Godiamond. Attacking people on the website is not the way to go about it. A simple spelling error disproves my creditability? I am a research manager of a marketing firm located in my city. I have a BA in entrepreneurship and in the process of getting my MBA in finance. I am in the business of analyzing business and my degree further attributes it. By the way, this is an excerpt from your post Godiamond: "if you did, or will you will find that they have" hmmm...what about your creditability? You made a typo error as well. With that said, if you take the "googlizer" portion out of my argument and concentrate on two variables of what was said in the pitch and website metrics than you can easily derive to one sole conclusion. I will copy and paste here not to waste anymore time:

    1) The person trying to recruit me has been doing it for 2 years, and in the pitch, if you have been doing it for 2 years then you cannot make less $250, 000 (and I quote). He still stays in an apartment complex barely making his monthly payments (he does this full time).

    2) If the website is in the North America is as popular as you say it is...then it would have a higher traffic rank higher than 100, 000. University of South Carolina has more traffic rank than that. This site has more traffic than that.

    You can make money in this organization. I never said that you could not. If you have time on your side, and several friends to "recruit", lack of a better word, then be my guest and go about it. The true American dream is to pursue your dreams. Mine is to open a business and help people realize there goals. Guess what? I have already achieved this endeavor and I do very well. I like the last quote: "If you want something you've never had, you've got to do something you've never done." Very true.

    This site should not tolerate people attacking each other and people who use profanity. If you can not articulate without stating using profanity, then do not post here. It will be taken more seriously if you do. I leave with a quote from Zig Ziglar something I think that LTD members should think about: "You will get all you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want."

  • Az
      23rd of Jul, 2009
    -1 Votes

    I think the LTD business is great if you can get alot of people in your network to join. I used to do Primerica back in the day and the only way you would make serious money is if you had lots of people under you. When I went to these motivational conferences, these million dollar earners had hundreds of people under them, thus led to there success. Bottom line is you have to SELL the success of this business to your friends and family. What bothers me is why does the LTD reps have to so shady about it? Why can't they tell you what the business is all about from the start? If is a such great business, how come everyone isn't doing this? To be a 6 figure earner, you better sell and hustle to get recruits!

  • Jr
      29th of Jul, 2009
    -3 Votes

    Its funny you speak of the man still living in his apartment complex barely making ends meet, but one question, does anyone person have the same ambition level as the next? Certainly not. I personally am sponsored by some amazing people who bendover backwards to see that things are going well for my team and i. Saying a bunch of Nike and Sony CEO's decided to sit down one day and say "hey lets scam a bunch of people with Amway cause it sounds like a blast, " is just ridiculous. Im not here to pound the idea or concept into your head im just saying dont crush other people's dreams and beleifs because the business isnt for you, thats called being selfish. Godiamond made an extremely good point you talk to a person in their respected field they are going to believe you can do it and if you want it bad enough they will seek to it that you accomplish this. If your on here typing things such as "it may not be a scam but its pretty close" or "it is a scam" thats and IBO's best response because not only are you properly filtered but we dont have to deal with people of this ambition level or this negativety. I love this business and it is NOT a scam, this business not only provides income but builds relationships and bonding with your team and everyone around you. Another posed question, would someone scamming you spend hours out of their day to seek that you succeed? This makes no sense. Also at the meetings did they ever say this is going to be the easiest thing youve ever done in your life? NO. Its just as anything else in life you get out what you put in, its all about ambition, how you want your lifestyle to be, and where you want to be in the future.

    Message to all IBO's: Dont be discouraged by other peoples beleifs, just because they dont want what you do. Also all these skeptics on here shouldn't discourage you but make you want to succeed that much more, with a little bit of heart, effort, and confidence YOU can achieve anything you want to i dont care what anyone else says.

  • Kg
      6th of Aug, 2009
    0 Votes

    I would only like the answer to 1 question (with a couple clarifying points):

    What is "the business"? Is anyone in this operation providing a customer with a value-added product or service that they cannot get somewhere else? If the answer is no, and you yourself are not creating something of value with your time/money, then this is obviously a scheme to get paid easily.

    For a few of the supporters out there criticizing "trading time for money", here is a quick economics lesson for you:

    People want things, and they are willing to pay a certain dollar amount for those things. A business produces these things, utilizing the skills of their employees which they pay a wage that is more or less equal to the value they contribute to the end product and bottom line of the company. In order to be able to contribute this value, you must have the skills required, and you get these through training, and school is the most common and comprehensive resource.

    Now this system can be subject to criticism as you may feel like a slave to the corporate world, but this system evolved from time of trading sea shells for food to address the needs and desires of man kind. There is an alternative, you can buy some land and grow your own food and drill your own well and live in basic substinence, or gain a skill which you can exploit outside of a cubicle.

    Working for a wage isn't a scam. It is how we as Americans are able to afford the luxuries we are now so accostomed to that we take the system that gave them to us for granted.

  • Bc
      10th of Aug, 2009
    -1 Votes

    Whoever said that you need 300 people just to make 63, 000$ is completely uninformed, if your buisness was structured correctly and you had 300 people on your team your income would be closer to 150, 000. This business is also one of the best opportunites in America today because the only way that you become sucessful is by helping your team become sucessful!

  • Jg
      10th of Aug, 2009
    0 Votes

    hey i had a question i guess. I have been going to the conferences and my sponsor wants me to join and I have an open mind about all of this so I am accepting of either way people talk about this Amway company and LTD thing. My parents are pretty negative towards it because of a previous experience of one of my mothers friends doing this sort of thing about 20 years ago, which obviously times have changed but my mother is still holding a grudge towards Amway. However, I have looked at their website and read about their products and things and it seems that they are pretty pricey and I was wondering how would I be able to convince anyone to buy these products if they can't really afford them and can just go to wal mart or where ever and get it for way cheaper?? Also, I had a question..Do I have to buy these products and then sell them to the customers or what exactly am I doing here with the products? I know it says to buy some of these products to try them out and have knowledge of them, but do I seriously need to keep buying them? I also think it would be hard to recruit or get some people to join because if they are looking for money, why or how would they afford to register with Amway because $200 is not exactly pocket change for some people, ya know?? I have the funds to do this business to start off, but I am worried about whether or not it is going to blow a hole in my pocket in the long run. Will I spend more than I make if I can't get enough people to join my team? I don't know I guess I need to do more research with all of this and get more convinced about it, but if anyone has info for me and explains it more to me than please hit me back. thanks!

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