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deceptive representation of time, resources and cost of ecommerce training
In February 2015 I received an email from chrismalta.com to participate in a paid online seminar explaining the true ins-and-outs of an ecommerce website. I paid the seminar registration fee, and attended the seminar.
It was a briefing of what makes for a good website-presentation, and how to lead that searcher to become a customer. And the entire training would take a year to eighteen months. The true disclosure of time and other resources was not given.
Chris called me the next day, to explain the cost and method of payment.
I asked him if I get a curriculum and detail syllabus. He said it is just what we have been over, a syllabus is not really necessary. In August of 2018, I again asked for a copy of the detail syllabus; I gave the reason why I wanted it, and this time I received it (a twenty-five-page document titled ‘2018 Course Detail').
On March 25, 2015 I paid the cost of the training, and training commenced in April 2015.
Course Sections 2, 4, and 6 required the purchasing of Quick Books Pro 2015, and subscription to Lynda.com for 28 hours of playing time Video training:
Windows 8.1 - 6 hours of video playing time
Gmail Essentials and Learning Chrome - 2 hours video playing time
MS Word 2013 - 6 hours of video playing time
MS Excel 2013 - 7 hours of video playing time
Google calendar about an hour of video playing time
Quick Books Pro 2015 - 6 hours of video playing time.
The thing to bear in mind here is that Lynda.com courses have no reference material. It is a matter of playing the videos until the information is grasped or understood. This could involve playing the videos more than once. Any subsequent reference or lookup requires playing the videos again if subscription is still current, or renew subscription first.
Course Sections 35 through 39 required the purchasing of monthly subscription to Adobe Creative Cloud. And Lynda.com paid subscription for 130 hours of playing time video training:
Design Aesthetics for the web - 3 hours of video playing time
Adobe Creative Cloud Essential Training - 3 hours of video playing time
Photoshop CC 2017 One-on-One Fundamentals - 16 hours of video playing time
Photoshop CC 2017 One-on-One Advanced - 17 hours of video playing time
Photoshop CC 2013 Mastery - 10 hours of video playing time
Adobe Color CC Essential Training 3 hours of video playing time
Illustrator CC 2013 One-on-One Fundamentals - 12 hours of video playing time
Illustrator CC 2013 One-on-One Intermediate - 12 hours of video playing time
Illustrator CC 2013 One-on-One Advanced - 12 hours of video playing time
Illustrator CC 2013 One-on-One Mastery - 12 hours of video playing time
Deke's Techniques 269 Video Training - 15 minutes of video playing time
Deke's Techniques 270 Video Training - 15 minutes of video playing time.
I completed the training up to course section 41, in August, 2017. The flood, Harvey, then came and destroyed my house and the fullness thereof.
I contacted Chris Malta in September of 2017, requesting that due to my disruption, and the time it will take me to reestablish, I cancel the remainder of the course and be given a prorated refund. He said no, but I may resume the course when it is possible for me to do so. I asked him to give me the entire course work material all at once, that I may or may not work on it at my leisure, he said no. I decided to resume the course.
In June 2018 I was recovered from the effects of Harvey to the point where I could resume the course. I contacted Chris. He informed me that too much time has elapsed to resume the course, but I may restart at the beginning of course section #10.
To decide whether to drop the course or restart at section #10, I needed to assess what I have completed, and what I have yet to complete, so I asked Chris to send me a copy of the syllabus, and I explained why I need it. He sent it to me.
The remainder of the syllabus lists 79 more sections and 37 more video training. Undoubtedly, these require additional expenses for video training subscriptions and or the purchase of software products.
Retrospect: The original presentation to me was deceptive. Had I seen the syllabus, or, had I been told the full extent of time, resources, and expenses associated with this course, I would not have signed up for it in the first place. Now I am faced with the options of dropping the course and losing the almost six thousand dollars, including the cost of the course itself, that I have already sunken into it, or resuming the course at a point where I would not only incur additional cost, but repeat most of those I have already incurred.
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer's satisfaction.
Everybody who has any interest in this Education is told EXACTLY what they're getting into before ever even registering for it. That includes the original complainant here. Course by course, section by section, every last detail is explained, as it was to him.
His actual complaint, when you read it and boil it down, is that he was not told that it would be hard work. He calls that "deceptive", which is an extremely harsh mis-characterization that is grossly misused in the title of his post, in my opinion.
In my original response I explained that EVERYONE is told that starting and running a business of any kind is hard work; you can see that based on everything I have ever published through various media over the last 25 years.
You also saw and heard me say that in the free video series you clearly watched. Owning any business of any kind requires that the business owner actually understands all the different disciplines involved in that business. Far too many people are told that this business is quick and easy, and that results in far too many people failing at it.
The few video training resources that the original poster mentioned in his post seem greatly exaggerated because of the way he posted them. He knows very well that they are only a very small fraction of what we do in EBiz Foundations. While we do have Students spend a bit of time in video software training on a (very well known and highly respected) third-party website (I won't mention their name here so as not to drag them into this mis-characterization), the software training that people do is just a very small part of this Education.
Yes, I agree with you that learning Photoshop can be difficult, but I make no excuses for that. It's a necessary thing if a business owner is going to use social media to market their business. The only other alternative is to "outsource" those graphics. Since you mentioned that you have graphics experience, you know that outsourcing marketing graphics results in horribly disconnected visuals across a wide social marketing effort, and that kills the cohesion of the business' brand and most of its potential for sales conversion.
I've taught this business to thousands of people in various ways, Jonathan. I've never had anybody complain about the Photoshop training they go through in these courses. In fact, THIS person isn't complaining about that part of it either; he is simply complaining that overall he was not told that starting and owning a real business was hard work.
He clearly was; again, you can even see that in the free video series you watched.
When we teach ECommerce, we teach everything involved in ECommerce. From Market Research to Keyword Research to Demographic Research, from Time Management to Business Structure, Graphics, Writing for Marketing, Site Design, Social Media and a great deal more, this is everything that a real business owner needs to know about ECommerce to not only get started, but to run the business profitably.
After teaching so many aspects of ECommerce to literally thousands of people over a great number of years, this is the ONLY complaint about these courses. Just this one. That has to tell any reasonable person something about the complaint.
As I said in my earlier response, I do feel sorry for this man. He did lose his home in Hurricane Harvey. He came back to me 3 years later with NO COMPLAINTS about the Education. He WANTED TO CONTINUE. It was only after I told him that he would have to REPEAT *some* of his earlier research in order to bring it up to date after 3 years, that he wrote this complaint and made sure to blast it across 4 different complaint websites such as this one.
He could easily have talked to me about it before he posted this complaint, but he didn't. No warning, no discussion, no indication that he was upset. He gave me no chance to respond to his concerns first. He simply lashed out, emotionally in my opinion, in a very unfortunate way that severely mis-characterizes what we work so hard to do for people here. I understand his emotional distress over the things that happened to him as a result of that horrible storm and I feel bad for him. I told him that when it happened, and I told him that when he came back 3 years later wanting to continue with the Education.
I think it's extremely unfortunate that he did what he did here. I really don't believe he understood how horribly negatively just one single complaint can affect even the most legitimate of businesses with the best of reputations.
He was actually a very nice older gentleman when I worked one-on-one with him before he was affected by that storm. I believe that if he had understood how disproportionately a single complaint can affect a legitimate business, he would never have posted this complaint in the first place.
I don't know if this site will block this part of my post or not, but anyone who has any questions about this issue whatsoever can call me on my direct phone line at 888-824-7476. I'll be more than happy to answer any questions or have any discussion regarding this issue or anything else we do in this business.
Again, thanks for commenting, Jonathan.
Sincerely,
Chris Malta
Of course, though, I had to respond. I’m Chris Malta, the subject of his post, and I have a few things to say as well. First, if you’re planning on starting a business, please take this person’s post as absolute proof of the old sayings “No good deed ever goes unpunished”, and “You can’t please all of the people all of the time”. I’ve spent more than 40 years in business making sure I always tell the truth and always over-deliver, and still I have to deal with things like this.
In the end, all you can really do is shake your head and sigh. This person’s post is 1, 720 words long (I checked), but it can all be boiled down to a single simple sentence: “I didn’t know that learning to start a real business was going to be hard work, take time, and cost money.” The simple truth is that he DID know all of that. But you don’t have to take my word for it. Go to my site, ChrisMalta.com.
Look around. Read my Blog. Listen to my Podcast. In fact, go back over the last 25 years I’ve spent in this business and read my EBooks, check out the two radio shows I hosted, watch my videos, read the hundreds of business articles I’ve written, look for transcripts of the national conventions I’ve spoken at…you get the idea.
If you find ONE single place that I have EVER said that starting and running an online business was going to be quick, easy and cheap, I’ll eat my hat. I don’t even wear hats, but I’ll BUY one and eat it. I’ve taught thousands of people the truth about this business, and the one common theme that runs through everything I teach is that it IS going to be hard work, take time, and cost some money. In fact, that’s an integral part of the conversation I have with everyone who starts my Courses, and I KNOW I had that conversation with this person as well.
So as much as he would like you to believe he was misled in that regard (which you’ll see is his ONLY real complaint here), it’s just not true. Which means that his post itself is misleading. Intentionally? I don’t know.
I’d rather give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that he’s emotionally overwrought at losing his house and having his life turned upside down by Hurricane Harvey; I know I would be. Either way, it’s still misleading. Unfortunately, he’s also misled his readers (intentionally or not) regarding the cost of the Courses he took. At face value, his words let you believe he paid $6, 000.
He did not. He paid FAR less than that. He does say that there were things he needed to buy for his business that cost him additional money, and that’s true. He needed QuickBooks Online to run his Accounting.
He needed Adobe Creative Cloud so that he’d have the software necessary to create graphics to market his site. Those two things are needed by ANY business owner who wants to start a site online. The two other things WE required that he buy were a $67 book (not our book; it’s by another author) and OCCASIONAL (one month at a time when needed) access to a well-known and very popular SOFTWARE training to learn, as he mentions, things like Photoshop and other necessary marketing and business software. I won’t mention their name here; it wouldn’t be fair to drag them into this mis-characterized mess.
Unfortunately, he mis-characterizes THAT company as well (sensing a pattern here? Everything seems to be someone else’s fault…) by saying that there is NO reference material there and you just have to mindlessly watch videos until they sink in. That isn’t true either. That site has all kinds of excellent Example Files and Practice Files that go with all their video software training.
You just have to take a little time to download and use them. Why didn’t he? I don’t know; our Coursework instructed him to. I suppose I should thank him for illustrating how painstakingly thorough EBiz Foundations actually is, but he didn’t really do that either.
He just focused on complaining about the time it took him to learn certain software, which is a very small fraction of what we teach. He also says this: “It took me until June 2018 before I was recovered from the effects of Harvey, to the point where I could resume the course. I contacted Chris. He informed me that too much time has elapsed to resume the course, but I may restart at the beginning of course section #10.” Before the disaster with his house, he was on Section 49.
I DID tell him he needed to start back at Section 10 in August of 2018, but as it is with most of his post, again he doesn’t tell the whole story. Section 10 is the beginning of Market Research, which is figuring out what to sell. There’s a good deal of important, time-sensitive research beginning in that section. Since YEARS had passed by the time he showed up again, the research that he’d done previously in Section 10 and beyond was no longer valid.
I told him he needed to repeat JUST that research (NOT all of the Coursework up to Section 49) so that his research would be up to date. In other words, I was trying to help him, not hurt him. And he knew that at the time, because I know I explained it to him and he acknowledged that he understood. I still have the emails.
There are many more things I could easily refute here, but I don’t want to make this another 1, 720 word post. I’ll just cover one more point and leave it at that. He says: “Be mindful. The local municipal colleges and career schools are more cost effective; they are accredited, technologically current, staffed with distinguished teachers, and provide all the resources you will need for their courses, during and after. And there is never a discrepancy of course time-line and or content and expense.”
Unfortunately, that isn’t true either, and he knows it. If he thought it was, that’s the route he would have taken. The fact is that colleges do NOT teach start-to-finish, practical application (build as you learn) education tracks in Ecommerce. The few schools that do have some material like that are using hit-and miss class material that is written by the school’s teachers themselves based on things they learn from Google and YouTube.
Those people are NOT business owners and CANNOT teach practical Ecommerce, having never done it themselves. I’ll end this with another statement he makes: “The original presentation to me was deceptive. Had I seen the syllabus, or, had I known the full extent of time, resources, and expenses associated with this course, I would not have signed up for it in the first place.” So, if he had known that starting and running a real business was going to take hard work, time and some money, he wouldn’t have started the Education. Again, not true.
I stated this earlier…EVERYTHING I’ve always told people about this business says that it DOES take all those things. As I said, you can look it up in everything I’ve ever written or recorded over the last 25 years. I specifically stated those things to him when he started, as I do with everyone. Most people I teach understand that good things come to those who work for them.
Look, it isn’t indentured servitude. It’s just learning and work, and anybody can do it. Some people just get beaten down by tragedy in their lives and become angry at the world. I know this man, and I know that’s what happened to him.
I actually do remember him calling me after Harvey and telling me what happened. I commiserated with him and told him I would be there for him when he was ready to come back. I was. He didn’t.
If taking out some frustration by trying to hurt me and my company in a seriously misleading post like the one he wrote is one of the things he thought would take his mind off his troubles, so be it. But I don’t have to just sit here and take it, and I’ll make no apologies for defending my integrity and honesty, ever.
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I have tried to contact Chris as advised, to get the next part of my course, however, since they now have my money, I am getting no response and cannot even call. This has ruined my Family and I cannot believe the world we now live in. Everywhere I seem to write a negative post it seems to magically disappear.
When I was first looking into taking this course, I saw the post above and was a little skeptical, but with all of the positive comments below it, I decided to take the plunge.
I'm glad I did.
This course is one of the best investments I've ever made. It does take time, hard work and money however Chris made that absolutely clear at the beginning of the course, and unless you want to pay a marketing agency 10x's that amount to get your online business set up for you, this is 100% the way to go.
The money you spend will be for priceless information and resources that you will use over and over again for your business. If you're serious about starting an online business, this is the way to go.
I've fallen for a couple of scams, there are plenty of them out there-- this is not one of them. Chris Malta is the real deal. If you're serious about starting an online business, start here.
Chris the bottom line is you have to work hard to be successful, and if you didn't work hard being successful you have to work just as hard staying successful.
Chris the bottom line is you have to work hard to be successful.
Hello Chris,
I wrote a great reply, some how it was erased. Im pissed.
I too was a victim of scam artists who had minimal teachings and you were lucky to have a conversation with your coach (I won't even use the word "teacher") without a weekly appointment if you needed help in between weeks, you would wait for 3-4 days only to speak to another coach, not even your own! Chris' approach to genuine teaching was worlds apart from the scammers, and less expensive.
My husband and I took the E-biz courses together and from start to launch it took us a little less than 2 years. We are older so learning was a challenge, I will admit. But Chris stood by us, answering our calls and questions whenever we needed teaching and interpretation of the course studies. We were never deceived about the length of time. It's human nature to want to get through difficult stuff quicker, but NO business owner EVER has an easy time IF they do it right, which is what Chris teaches. We weren't happy shelling out money we struggled to get before even making a sale, but there is NO business in the world that doesn't have start-up costs. And it certainly wasn't $6000! Chris was never misleading about that!
In conclusion, I feel Chris was born to teach. His patience, willingness to help on a weekend, holiday or late evening and his genuinely honest persona is what made us stick with him during difficult times. If you make the commitment to learn and grow a business from nothing to something, you best be realistic in knowing it won't happen overnight and it won't happen for some as quickly as others who may have some initial experience.
When we realized how very different Chris Malta's course is compared to the scammer course we took, put up a website and didn't sell a thing in over a year, it was clearly evident that the course material was like night and day. If you want to get it done quickly and half-[censored], DON'T go with Chris Malta... I really don't have to finish this sentence, do I? The answer is obvious.
It's not rocket science. This man who lost everything also lost his soul, which is very sad. That is still no reason to consciously try to trash a man's reputation. Shame on you. Chris is a good man, a great human being and has worked hard to build his business, NOT through deceit and over-compensation, but in a refreshingly honest approach to teaching what he has learned over 40 years. Any student of his is lucky to have access to his knowledge and expertise.
E-commerce, it isn't rocket science.
E-commerce may not be as challenging as rocket science yet it isn’t a cake-walk either. It does take time and learning for success when applied. For instance, every bit of education you obtain is a long term investment within yourself regardless if it for your business or your current situation.
I’ve come to know Chris Malta well over time, and your false representation of time, resources and cost of e-commerce training is an inaccurately misleading statement, “to say the least”!
Chris Malta's business is ethically sound. In other words, he has a genuine openness to help anyone achieve their life long dreams if they are willing to work for it in the e-commerce business. In today's world, when we hear of success stories, we are taken back not to become aware of that particular person's journey fully. We only marvel at the results!
You see, we sometimes are critical to their results not seeing the days, months and even years on their path to success. My experience is that we all have our very own journey, and circumstances are sure to come!
I can recall when I decided to take on these courses as a student. Chris kindly ask me the same questions and then told me these very words and I would quote! "It takes time, and there is a bit of learning involved with a lot of hard work. But if you're willing to work at it. Then you should be fine!"
My saving grace was he was going to be there the entire way! Enough for me, I am all in!
There wasn't a timeline given; he asks me my calendar. Again, for most of us, we would say tomorrow instant riches! However, instant gratification isn't happening.
Today in our new generation and society we take technology and want every now! Everyone would like to have their cake and pie to eat without waiting for the best ingredients to take time to marinate together for success so to speak.
For me, in my current profession, (federal employee with great responsibilities) the time element was going to be my greatest challenge. We all have circumstances and not to mention, and my son is living with Autism. In my life, I come to call these situations "So What" problems. They aren't going away. Our creator places them there for a reason and in my humble opinion, to draw us near him for love and his help through these situations.
Chris Malta’s E-biz was a perfect fit for me to learn at your very own pace. You owe it to yourself to learn everything, and it is an investment into your very own future. The truth is, e-commerce is no different than any other business or profession for that matter when learning and hard work is involved. In fact, I’ve found Chris Malta’s course to be one of the most challenging things I’ve had to deal with.
When you think about it, the real battle is being played right between our ear loaves. My heart goes out to you on the event of hurricane Harvey.
Please pick up where you left off and get back into the game of life with us all. You'll learn so much more about yourself during this journey. This story to your book isn't over by any means.
My wife is Asian, so I can quote Confucius, "A journey of a thousand steps begins with the first step"! You have taken the first steps, and your journey isn't over! Join us again; see how this story ends. It is your story!
Chris Malta is the very essence of integrity, honesty, ethical and credible as a business owner-teacher. If his business model were the norm, I wouldn't have a job! Remember, I am a federal employee with benefits beyond your imagination!
Chris Malta's E-biz foundation is orchestrated so well for his students. I'm amazed at the level of knowledge and his profound foresight of expertise in this realm. He has my confidence and should not have received this blunder of feedback.
You took such a precise effort in trying to ruin such an excellent person reputation. It's coming back to you like a boomerang! I don't want to stand within 10 feet of you when it does. You know the truth, don't let it manifest in your mind. Do the right thing and apologize and then comment back the truth. You'll feel better I'm sure!
I'm saying this because both you and Chris know the truth, and I'm basing my feeling on what has only happened in my experience with Chris Malta. All is forgiven, to make a point. This deformation could have been an ugly legal battle if you knew my stance from my employer!
As it turns out, I'm grateful we're able to come in peace to find the truth! Give Chris a call and apologize, you are wrong! Better yet, comment back on your post and on up on it the right way!
I would also like to comment regarding the complaint made against Chris. I have been a member of WW Brands (of which Chris is the founder) for many years and have always found them to be the ONLY B2B Directory that I could trust. I've listened to Chris's videos and have read his blogs and newsletters over the years. He has always been straightforward, and frankly, a "breath of fresh air" in the ECommerce world.
I became a student of Chris and EBiz Foundations a couple of months ago. I am currently an active seller, but I want to expand my business to my own website. After listening and reading about Chris for so long, I decided that I wanted someone EXTREMELY knowledgeable to teach and help me. I didn't want to spend countless amounts of time and funds on a scam or "quick-fix" that I knew were available on the web ... there are a ton out there! Because of what I knew of Chris, I felt he was the RIGHT person to help me.
From the very moment I contacted Chris (and YES he does answer his phone!), I knew I had made the right decision. Perhaps the person that lodged this complaint wasn't listening, but Chris NEVER said it would be an easy road to riches. He NEVER said it would be quick. In fact, he told me that the courses would take TIME, possibly twelve months or more, depending on the person. He told me it would take PERSEVERANCE, but that he would ALWAYS be available to help and mentor along the way. I can honestly say that he is ALWAYS there when you need him.
I was NEVER blindsided by any lack of course information. Chris sent me the course syllabus BEFORE I ever signed up with him. I knew there was video training involved, but that is just a smaller part of the whole course. There is much more information and training involved. In regards to cost for the courses, I was told that upfront as well, it isn't even close to 6K ... so I'm not sure where they got that figure from! In addition, this person never states in their complaint, that by the end of the courses you are taught you will have a LIVE, FULLY FUNCTIONAL, website of YOUR OWN! If they had a PROFESSIONAL company design a specific website for them, and I'm talking about a real legitimate company ... not some template you can find online, you would pay thousands of dollars! They would design it for you ... but guess what, you would never know HOW they did it! You need to learn all of this for yourself, so YOU can be in total control of your own destiny!
To anyone out there that may be reading this ... listen, I do feel sorry for this person for losing his house and going through what he did, but I wish he wouldn't have lashed out and caused possible harm to Chris's name. There are so FEW honest people in the online world and I would hate to see anyone like Chris, who persistently strives to HELP & EDUCATE us less knowledgeable folks, hurt by an unnecessary derogatory comment.
It takes HARD WORK and DEDICATION to make it in this business and I am thankful that I have Chris there to help and teach me!
I too feel for this guy, losing all in a hurricane. Very devastating. However, in spite of all that, he did come back to restart his course. What he didn’t like was he had to review/renew his market research, that’s all. After two years it should be a little out of date. What I think is that he was not or ever was ready to continue or finish the course because this course is really detailed and difficult. You need to be in a focused frame of mind.
I know from my experience in the online business world that there are many more scams than legit courses out there. When I started with Chris Malta, I was coming off a “slam, bam, thank you ma-am” e-commerce course that got me up and running in two weeks … WOW. No, not wow, “whoa” is the word because I never made one cent with that program. Six months wasted there. Why? Because I was only told what to do and not why. A $6000 mistake. This is just one of the few mistakes I’ve made. Anyway, I digress.
Let me say that EBiz Foundations is a soup to nuts course that everyone in the ecommerce business should consider before jumping into the fray. Anyone worth their salt in the ecommerce, online business does say that there is no quick or easy way to be successful. This is definitely not for everyone. Just for the ones who are willing to work hard and long to achieve their goals.
I know you can feel overwhelmed and discouraged at times. I have and still do at times. Maybe this guy is feeling that too. He got to section 41, more than half way. He only needed a week of review and refresh, and he would be on track again. What a shame he misunderstood that he only had to do one chapter over again.
Starting any business costs a lot of money and time. My wife spent nearly 5 years, 18+ hours a day and a [censored] ton of money before she saw a profit. The point is, if you believe it, it will happen.
This guy needs to own his decision to quit and not continue. Nobody else is to blame. He knew the rules going in.
You know what they say: “winners never quit and quitters never win”. He will never know what could be.
Lenny B.
My comment will most likely be short but to the point. So I apologize in advance.
When I met Chris and talked to him about me potentially starting his course, I realized right then and there that this was going to be a long ride but then I also knew that I have made several mistakes in the past while trying to start a "get rich quick" type of business, I new this was the right type of business to do because I never felt this was an easy or short path to take and definitely had a the legalities it needed to get a solid foundation for my business but most important because I was never lied to and have always been told the truth about every process. No only Chris is 100% of the time there to support but I have never seen anybody except for this "unknown" person complaint about his awesome work and ethics and most of all his course, which if you ask me it should thought in every school at some point.
I just wanted to say that we are adults, and we all go thru challenges in life and that YES, THIS MIGHT NOT BE FOR EVERYBODY and that's OK, it's only for the people that "already know what they want in life" and have made a really solid decision to go for it non-stop no matter the adversities, I'm very surprised that this unknown person went thru a lot and so far in the course that decided to not do it anymore, but hey, we all have different needs and challenges in life and some are just not 100% ready to sacrifice and do what's needed to have a very successful business.
Regards.