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This is a long story, so I will try to give the "condensed" version here and then elaborate as opinions and questions come in.
We purchased a 14 week old Rottweiler puppy on March 25 2011 for $1500 from John M Shanebrook at Zwinger von der Helden Kreuz Rottweilers in Santa Monica. Talked in depth with him prior to purchase about our family dynamics, namely that we had a 2 year old daughter.
We told him we didn't plan to do Schutzhund, or to Show her, we just wanted a FAMILY dog who was healthy(parents good + hips/elbows)and well adjusted.
Drove 3 hours to pick her up. John M Shanebrook didn't tell us until we were standing there with CASH in hand several issues, 1) He'd neglected to remove the rear dew claws(only 3 pups in litter had them and he didn't notice until too late) and we'd need to pay about $150-$250 to have them removed. 2) Our pup was the "alpha" female and he had to keep her seperate from her siblings do to dominance issues 3) She couldn't socialize or live with another female due to "alpha" issues 4) Was very specific about how we had to approach our new puppy. No eye contact, don't approach the dog or make any movement toward the dog, don't talk to the dog or touch her, and finally just let her come to you. Mind you this is a 14 week old puppy...NOT a 2 year old DOG!
Of course in hindsight and after talking to others we were told this is how you'd approach an UNSOCIALIZED DOG not a well rounded puppy.
Took her for 1st vet visit/well puppy on 4/1. She freaked out, screamed, screeched tried to bite the vet. Both my husband and I were in the exam room with her. Vet said it was worst case of non socialization he has seen in a puppy. Also said we would need extreme training and most likely a behaviorist due to having missed the crucial window of socialization. Also she was very mouthy and growled/ tried to bite whenever she had something in her mouth that she shouldn't and we try to take it away. We have a young child so this is very troublesome. Our family situation was made very clear to breeder prior to our getting the puppy.
During the following 2 week period she was progressively more aggressive towards our 2 year old daughter, nipping 5-6 times, knocking her down, even tearing her shirt. Puppy was also very "mouthy" with my husband and I, not just puppy teething stuff. We decided that being responsible parents, we couldn't keep the dog.
Contacted the breeder, John M Shanebrook, he agreed to take her back and once he resold her he'd give us our $$ back. Emailed back and forth for a couple weeks about her progress. Mr. Shanebrook agreed that she was wrong for our family and she was in his words, " she is ###ing Dominant as HELL! Pardon the language, but I have my hands full with her. I won't burden you with the details, but let me just say that her and I have done battle more than once; especially this past week. She is exhibiting would I fully believe is a high level or aggression drive, and this would be considered 'correct' or 'proper' Rottweiler behavior among German kennels. She will need professional training, and possibly handling by an experienced Schutzhund owner. My skills are solid for most Rottweilers, but the highly dominant German Rottweilers are still a bit out of my league. I may have a couple of trainers I know in Germany or Serbia take her and work with her. That said, I think she is a great dog, just a 'unique' one." This is DIRECTLY from the breeder, John M Shanebrook.
Several days later we talked via Skype and he informed us that he would be keeping our pup...because she had all the traits he was looking for, and give us $$ when he sold one of the other 2 remaining pups he had. 2 weeks later he sold a pup, didn't hear from him! Contacted him to find out when he'd mailed our check and he said he'd never agreed to that. He then said he was going to have to "GIVE" away our pup because she deserved to go to a home. So we would get NOTHING back. No $1500, and no dog!
He subsequently won't answer our emails or respond to our Certified letter.
Our next step is small claims court.
We are out $1500 for the puppy, $200 in Vet bills(testing for Crypto, that one of his other pups had) and over $800 in kennel, supplements, crates, Leerburg training DVDs, and books all recommended by the breeder. And NO puppy!
Many other issues as well...tried to be short here.
Would be so grateful to hear others opinions.
This complaint is my OPINION, and my EXPERIENCE with Zwinger von der Helden Kreuz and John M. Shanebrook, and there is no slanderous intent.
I can honestly say that I wish we could have had the same experience as these others above have mentioned. All the talk of standing behind his puppies, having an open door policy with his customers, and always being available to offer support WAS NOT how our experience with John Shanebrook and Zwinger Vom Heldenkreuz went.
Does anyone really believe we would have returned our $1500 puppy if we hadn't reached an agreement with John regarding reimbursing us?
John left town with our $1500 and our puppy and then would not accept our calls or numerous requests to follow through with what he had agreed to.
The fact that he has not honored his promise to return our money and make things right with us is extremely disappointing. We are a family with a young child who wanted to add a family companion to our mix, and the fact that he thinks it is ok to treat us this way is also very upseting. John Shanebrook sold us a dog THAT WAS NOT appropriate for our family dynamics, and when he was made aware of this he offered to make it right. Of course this HAS NOT happened...otherwise we would be like the others above singing the praises of his kennel and his ETHICS AND MORALS. Believe me, I'd much rather be complimenting someone as opposed to critizing them!
We just want John to do THE RIGHT THING!
I will continue to let others know of our negative experience with Mr. Shanebrook, Zwinger Von Der HeldenKreuz, and Zwinger Vom Heldenkreuz. Again this is our personal opinion and experience with John Shanebrook.
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
I have a male Rottweiler from John Shanebrook's 'c' litter, and our family could not be happier with the amazing dog he has grown into. We are a family with young children, but have owned 1 family Rottweiler before purchasing with John. We did a LOT of research, and John's name always came to the top of the list with other reputable breeders. John was so willing to share with us every detail of his philosophy of breeding Rottweilers, and exactly what to expect from our dog. Since we have children, we knew that we would have extra responsibility to raise and train our dog up to be the kind of dog our family wanted.
Our dog is now almost 18 months old and the most amazing dog I have ever had a part of our family. He is absolutely beautiful, and his temperment, throughout ALL his stages of development have been just as John described. We have had to spend a lot of time training Roman and teaching him his role in our 'pack.' He is a Rottweiler, not a lab, or other 'easy going' dog, and with that has come challenges and bumps along the road to his training. BUT, our experience was what we expected and were prepared for in the long run. John was honest and open about what his Rottweilers would be like during their development.
John has had an 'open door' policy with us as far as calling, emailing, texting, etc. anytime we had a question. I really believe that his guidance with our dog has been invaluable and his expertise in the breed has taught us so much and helped us to raise an amazing animal. I would recommend John to anyone who is looking for an amazing Rottweiler. I would say though, that this beautiful breed, is not for every dog owner. Their power, intelligence and drive require a specific kind of owner and handler. Our family could not fault our dog for acting just like a Rottweiler should act, but rather, with consistency and daily obedience training, raise him into a well mannered, loving, and extremely protective dog.
I cannot say enough kind words about our experience with John. I highly recommend him.
Lana Dorazio
Peoria, AZ
I have known John Shanebrook for over 3 years through the rottweiler community and have always found him to be an excellent ambassador for the breed. John places a high emphasis on breeding solid ADRK bloodlines and promoting the total rottweiler in health, temperment, type & working ability. John is always available for breeder support and spares no expense in breeding, raising, training & supporting his puppies in their new homes. John is honest, friendly & always available to support others in the rottweiler community.
I bought a pup from John Shanebrook (Zwinger Von der Helden Kreuz) last year and I found John to be very honest and trustworthy. He told me prior to sale the exact temperament of the pup and sent me pictures. She was exactly as he described her. She has a strong working temperament and good drives. That is a characteristic I prefer in rottweilers-a total rottweiler-which is lacking in most rotts, especially the non German rotts. Most Germans breed for working temperaments, courage and intelligence, whereas most breeders in most other countries do not.
I would recommend John as a breeder of true German rottweilers and an honest and knowledgeable breeer.
Dale G.
Michigan
I have owned/operated my Rottweiler kennel for over 20 years; and have dealt with all manner of clients and fellow-breeders. In the past few years I have gotten to know John M. Shanebrook (Zwinger von der Helden Kreuz), and have conducted business within him on occasion. John has always been respectful and truthful in his dealings with me, and has never given me cause to question his professional conduct. As one of John's peers; within the Rottweiler Fancy, I believe John to be credible, trustworthy, ethical and honest. John is one of the "good guys" in the rottweiler community!
~Tommye P. (Texas, USA)
I highly recommend John Shanebrook and Zwinger Von Der Helden kennel as a knowledgeable and professional rottweiler breeder and owner for show dogs or family pets. Mr. Shanebrook has always be very honest with me about his dogs. Always sending update pic's of the parents. You can truly tell how much he loves his dogs and the rottweiler breed. I have a female pup from Mr. Shaneboork "C" litter and will have to say that she is one of the best rottweiler I have had. She was very well socialized and in the very best of health when I got her. She is GREAT with all people and just LOVES children. She is great with all animals big or small. . I have shown my girl one time and her first time out she went V-2. She is just one of the most clear minded rottweilers I've had. My girl is not only a great show dog but a great farm dog and family pet. No matter what she is doing when she is called she comes right now. I fell Mr. Shanebrook went to a great amount of time and effort putting this pedigree together on his dogs and it shows in the outstanding quality that he has reproduce. I feel there should be more breeders out there like him. Good Job John. I love my Caly! Kelly McCown/ Kelhausen Rottweilers
Please accept my opinion regarding my business experience with my colleague, Mr. John M. Shanebrook at Rottweiler Zwinger vom Heldenkreuz.
I own and operate a Rottweiler kennel in Germany. My kennel is registered with the Allgemeiner Deutscher Rottweiler Klub e.V. (ADRK). I am a long time member. I work very hard to breed, train, and compete with my dogs (dog-sport SchH/VPG). I work to promote "correct" Rottweiler temperament and breed-type. This is the goal of my kennel and the goal for members of ADRK in my country.
I often do business with breeders/kennels/trainers from other countries. When before I first meet John, he was referred to me with reliable recommendation from another well respected kennel from Germany. John have a very good reputation among my circle of friends.
I spent much time getting to know John, and I learn his philosophy for breeding dogs. He is an honest person, and he care most about the welfare of his dogs. He speaks very well, so it is easy for me to understand how he feels about the dogs and his kennel business. John has always made correct business with me, and is very reliable in his words.
I had the good fortune to visit John and his "cubs" at his kennel in Oregon, USA. I enjoyed this opportunity very much. I see that John takes very good care of his dogs, and he operates a clean and professional kennel. Mostly, John helps others to find good Rottweilers for their home or kennel. He does not have puppies in his kennel very often. I see that the business he makes is correct, and his contract with his clients is very clear to understand the responsibility.
I would recommend John and his kennel (Zwinger vom Heldenkreuz) to people who wish to learn about Rottweilers, and who are looking to own a correct Rottweiler. I trust John very much, and I believe he is of good and professional character. I hope you will have the chance to work with him.
Best regards,
Frau Dunja Hardebusch
ADRK Rottweiler Zwinger vom Hardebuscher Hof
Wetter (Ruhr), Germany
hardebu@t-online.de
www.rottweiler-hardebusch.de/
I highly recommend John Shanebrook and Rottweiler Zwinger von der Helden Kreuz to anyone seeking a high quality Rottweiler for show or pet.
I contacted John with interest in buying a high quality female pup with the plan to show her and ultimately breed her to my male Noah von Rivendell. The dogs in his kennel are produced from titled dogs with renowned pedigrees and show records. John was immediately responsive, extremely knowledgeable, forthcoming and candid in answering all my questions about the puppy, her pedigree and her parents. Together we discussed and picked out the right puppy in the litter for my plans.
John shipped the puppy to me by air. He took great pains to make sure the shipping was the least traumatic that it could be. She arrived in great condition. She was healthy, happy, outgoing, and very well socialized—obviously, she was raised in a great environment. She is a great puppy, excellent in quality and with clearly evident working gal potential.
John and I have kept in touch almost daily. He’s been great at completing the registration paper work in a timely way. And we send pictures back and forth so he can keep up to date on how the pup is doing (she’s doing great!)
I will return to John and his kennel in the future for good quality dogs, and for advice how to develop them, and to help me make contacts with other trustworthy breeders and trainers for future breeding of other dogs in my kennel.
This female BWT is very outgoing and friendly with everyone. She has been very successful in sieger competition. Of the five times have shown her she placed first in her class three times, V-rated (highest possible rating) all five times, and went on to be Best Puppy Female and Youth Siegerin (champion) in two of those placings.
To whom it may concern:
Helden Kreuz Rottweilers respects all consumer feedback; and takes any comments regarding our dogs, services, and kennel very seriously. It is our philosophy to engage in ethical business practices, and adhere to the letter of every business contract we execute. We welcome any sincere inquiry regarding our kennel, and are earnestly open to providing client testimonials, as well as professional and personal references upon request.
Please do not hesitate to contact Helden Kreuz Kennel directly:
John M. Shanebrook
Rottweiler Zwinger vom Helden Kreuz: (formerly Zwinger von der Helden Kreuz)
[protected] / office
john@HeldenKreuz.com
Skype at vdhkrotts
What happened with JimBoBob and GRRRR
Don't see them on this board any more.
Hmmmm.