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CB Dog Breeders Review of PAEAN Miniature Poodles
PAEAN Miniature Poodles

PAEAN Miniature Poodles review: miniature poodle, red, f 3

C
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1:57 pm EDT
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A truly professional breeder sells a physically healthy dog of GOOD temperament. Dee Schaal sold me a pale red, very shy F puppy for over $!, 300.00 from a litter of five in 2016. The mother, Penny, aka "Pennies from
Heaven", was given to Dee for free after warning her that Penny was shy, (supposedly some teenager did something to her as a pretext). Dee bred Penny to Ronnie. The resultant litter of five had three female pups, all shy,
(one slightly more dominant than the other two and two had umbilical hernias). Unable to sell those with umbilical hernias, she wrote to me that she might fix and then breed them. This is unacceptable, corrupting the gene pool. Later, she claimed she placed them with families, because a neighbor complained about the barking noise. Chris Birkett, in charge of animal control in Rochester, WI, told me she owned 15 adult dogs plus puppies and had ordered her to cut down by the end of 2017. She attests on her website
that her dogs live in her house; clearly they take turns living outdoors. Her house is used for those whelping, nursing and a few that might live inside.
Maintaining 15 dogs suggests a breeder whose primary motivation is maximal
profit. She keeps many in her large backyard, in addition to the front yard.

Neither Penny nor Ronnie, the parents, came over to us when we purchased
the F pup, standing instead at a considerable distance of many feet. The F puppy I purchased crawled over to me in the mornings indicating an unusually submissive nature. I misguidedly thought she would outgrow this.
When she went in for training at the Niles Petsmart she also had submissive urination each time she arrived and Elena, the trainer, explained to me that a teenager pestering the mother (Penny) would not have caused her permanent severe shyness. She said it was genetic; when researching this, I found that Victoria Stilwell, the noted dog trainer, defines dogs like this as "fear reactive" with some improvement possible over their lifetime, but not much since it is an inherited behavioral trait. Dee Schaal knew the puppy crawled over to her in the mornings, even writing that there was no reason why this puppy could not be loved, failing to explain what she meant. She knew the puppy was very withdrawn by nature, yet she was not straight forward about this and when this puppy failed to bark by 7.5 months old, she refused to take her
since Mr. Birkett had ordered her to cut down on the number of dogs. A good breeder can and will take a dog back at anytime. The puppy now, over a year old does bark occasionally, and she started to do so after I contacted Dee.
Dee did offer me another dog along with keeping this one. I did not accept as I did not set out to get two dogs. She kept all the money, closing out all other options. She never disclosed on the onset that this puppy was extremely submissive (shy), so I had to figure out what was wrong with the dog and that thanks to Dee's for profit and unprofessional breeding practices will always remain so. The red puppy I bought is turning into an apricot. Dee does have other happy customers, but some have returned dogs to her.

The puppy is not fun to walk, cringes and pulls, trying to hide when passerby approach. She cowers and shakes when a workman comes over. She still exhibits submissive urination when picked up from Petsmart Hotel. She cringes and pulls back when someone new tries to pet her. She cowered continuously when taken into the Apple store on several occasions. She is fine inside the house and is a lap dog or best friends when playing with the cat. I personally did not find Dee Schaal to be honest with me nor did she really try to settle this matter satisfactorily with me. The puppy is now under training to curb her tendency to confuse carpets with grass when pooping, (still not housebroken after one year) even though someone is always with her and she was taught to use potty bells.

The vet also placed her on medication (Alprazolam) for a month to control her shyness, but this did not work. When I first confronted Dee Schaal about her negligent breeding practice in this case, she tried to pin it on me. Later she did not deny in her emails that she the puppy was very submissive. I am not a breeder, I had not owned dogs for several years, had never seen or heard of this submissive nature in dogs and I had also waited for a year and a half for Dee Schaal to breed this puppy only to have my trust betrayed by what I perceive as greed and lacking in scruples.

She does not provide a heredity guarantee which deals with hip dysplasia and inherited eye conditions for poodles. It has nothing to do with Blastoma
(Blastomacosis) an environmentally acquired fungal infection which would not be covered under any heredity guarantee as it is not hereditary. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Update by C Elster
Aug 27, 2017 2:02 pm EDT

Dee Schaal, miniature poodle breeder

Update by C Elster
Jan 22, 2018 3:08 pm EST

Another breeder took Penny as a rescue and placed her in a new home. She wrote that Penny "was a hot mess" and the photo showed a voluminous overweight Penny with an overly long coat. She rescued several of Dee's poodles and that alone speaks of volumes about this irresponsible breeder. It cost this other breeder plenty as she also had to pay for veterinary costs. She informed me that she had confronted Dee about Penny having chondrodysplasia, the medical term for a long back with short legs which disqualified Penny from being bred. Good poodle conformation is square and when I saw Penny she had not been groomed in a long time so her build was hidden to the viewer. I am glad you're happy with your dog, but mine is so shy that it made it very difficult to train her, let alone walk her. Dee knew this and failed to disclose it. A good breeder breeds for temperament and conformation. They also give health guarantees. Dee hides behind the Blastomycosis excuse for not issuing one. Blastomycosis is an environmentally acquired disease, NOT a hereditary condition that can be guaranteed. The Blastomycosis cover up is nothing but sneaky.

Dee also sent me photos of dog ticks. She discussed how they fall off taller plants in her backyard. I was not familiar with dog ticks before this. My puppy was diagnosed with advanced dog Lyme tick disease and is now being treated for it. This is a long treatment. Dee also wrote that all five of Penny's and Ronnie's pups were given up for free. Did you even pay?

Update by C Elster
Jan 22, 2018 7:51 pm EST

Dogs have different personalities, and so yours is more outgoing. It would not cross my mind to walk my dog off leash, because if something, say a person, car, bicycle or anything else came near her, she would panic severely, run and could very well get hit by a car. Do you understand this so far?
She went through two training cycles at Petsmart. She was terrified of the people, but finally half way calmed down enough to just sit and watch, would not obey a command unless she was alone with us. Do you understand that this dog is painfully and abnormally shy. She is finally housebroken, but because she was so shy it took a long time due to her unusually inhibited personality. She is so terrified of anything, that even a garbage bag waiting to be taken out, startled her, made her shake and run. How is this the breeders fault? I did not breed her and the breeder knew this dog crawled over to her every morning. The breeder called her submissive and that's the understatement of the year along with failing to disclose this extreme personality fault. Are you able to understand any of this? Dee charged full price for a defective dog, so do you think this is honest?

Dee did offer me two half grown dogs to pick from and one had already been returned to her for pooping in someone else's house so they explained to Dee that they could not have that. All her dogs, per another breeder, are untrained, unkempt messes. Was this a good deal and or a redeeming one?
From one big mess to another? No thanks. She is unscrupulous and someone else they would never buy from her.

Update by C Elster
Jan 22, 2018 8:09 pm EST

Dee also said that this was Ronnie's first time with Penny (2016) and that he did not know what to do so she had to resort to A.I. through someone that performs this service. It was a litter of five and all three girls were shy, mine was the shiest and the only fine boned girl.

Update by C Elster
Jan 23, 2018 4:10 pm EST

Describing my experience has nothing to do with your unfair assertion that I am out to ruin this breeder's reputation. She NEVER disclosed that this puppy was shy. Dee does not permit people to show up unannounced to her home and warned me not to show up early when I purchased the puppy.
She had to clean for hours. Not a good breeder. She was also unable to take the dog back for any reason, another sign of a bad breeder. Petsmart here (Chicago) runs their pet hotel under very strict conditions and my dog who has rarely gone there, loves them. The trainer at Petsmart was very knowledgeable and experienced so no complaints. My puppy also loved her. Petsmart is well run generally and why you do not like them is unclear. Poodles do change in color and that was never a key issue, her withdrawn nature is. My vet said that is how she was bred and there is nothing that can be done about it. I will have my vet assess her degree of chondrodysplasia, not a rabid writer. I also never stated that umbilical hernias can be included in a health warranty, this is not pertinent, nor did I buy one of these poodles. Dee specifically said she could not give me a health warranty as she cannot warranty "Blastoma" (her term) which is environmentally acquired, not congenital and simply cannot be warranted by any breeder; this was used purely as a copout. The photo below shows Penny, the mother, of this dog when she was taken away from Dee. That photo speaks volumes. Penny
has since been groomed, placed on a diet with wonderful improvement. The breeder who paid for all this to be done is very kind indeed. She also has a terrific new owner.

Update by C Elster
Jan 23, 2018 4:14 pm EST

Penny's photo did not upload. Trying again.

View 0 more photos
Update by C Elster
Jan 23, 2018 5:48 pm EST

Any dog breed can exhibit achondroplasia or osteochondrodysplasia. It develops as the dog grows with varying degrees and symptoms exhibited as they mature. It has to be evaluated by a vet and there is no cure. It can lead to back problems and arthritis. The medical articles do not mention death for puppies. It is a given that any puppy born severely deformed does not stand a chance, but adult dogs or cats with chondrodysplasia are not regarded as good for breeding to prevent this from being passed on. This is why the "square" build in poodles is the accepted prototype used for breeders.

Update by C Elster
Jan 23, 2018 5:51 pm EST

Any dog breed can exhibit achondroplasia or osteochondrodysplasia. It develops as the dog grows with varying degrees and symptoms exhibited as they mature. It has to be evaluated by a vet and there is no cure. It can lead to back problems and arthritis. The medical articles do not mention death for puppies. It is a given that any puppy born severely deformed does not stand a chance, but adult dogs or cats with chondrodysplasia are not regarded as good for breeding to prevent this from being passed on. This is why the "square" build in poodles is the accepted prototype used by breeders.

Update by C Elster
Jan 24, 2018 11:02 am EST

Puppies from the same litter have DIFFERENT personalities, just like human siblings. In addition, there is nothing wrong with stating what the puppy is like that Dee sold to me at full price without disclosure of severe personality defect. She is not a reputable, competent breeder in my view and that is the purpose of these boards, to openly discuss problems or likes so others can form their own opinions. Again, you show a total lack of understanding since there is no way that your puppy can be the same as mine, believe it or not, they are entirely different animals even if from the same litter. You were just lucky that yours had a normal dog personality which in no way negates the huge problem with mine. You need to think more clearly and let go of pettiness.

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poodlesrule
Philadelphia, US
Jan 23, 2018 3:03 pm EST

I see a buyer who is striving to ruin the reputation of one of the most honest, sincere people I've ever met or gotten a puppy/dog from. From all reports, you purchased a puppy who was described to you as a shy pup, one who would need work to bring out her nature and you visited the breeder's home, saw the dogs, saw the parents and other puppies and chose to bring home this puppy. You placed a shy puppy in a PetSmart class (these are not the recommended classes for ANY dog, let alone a shy puppy - they're taught by inexperienced employees for the most part) and leave it in the PetSmart Pet Hotel daycare? Have you ever seen one of these daycares in action? It's pure chaos! This would be torture for a quiet/shy natured puppy. Dee offers the usual health guarantee for any puppy purchased from a reputable breeder. Nothing that could be/was caught after purchase would be covered in any breeder's guarantee. They can only guarantee against congenital faults and conditions that the breeder and their vet missed on the exam. The puppies with umbilical hernias would have been warranted against everything but that fault, which is usually caused by the mother dog pulling on the umbilical cord at birth and is easily fixed when the dog is altered. The "other breeder" claiming that the mother of these puppies was a dwarf (osteochondrodysplasia) was wrong. Miniature poodles can often have less than optional proportions (shorter legs than preferred) but miniature poodle dwarfism is a terminal condition that kills the pups born with this disease. In addition, reds fade - this is the nature of the color. They often turn out to be a dull paper bag color and depth of shade of red is not something that any breeder can guarantee. Yes, I have owned several of Dee Schaal's dogs and have found them to be sane, sweet natured, well proportioned and willing to please in all things. I can't say that of all the other dogs I've owned in my lifetime from other reputable breeders. There is so much more to the story behind the other breeder's vendetta against Dee Schaal that is not my story to share. I will say that I would, at any time, purchase a poodle from Dee Schaal and I know her to be a truly kind and honest person.

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Poodlesforever
, US
Jan 24, 2018 9:41 am EST

Yes that person is out to get Dee. I have a pup from the same litter and he is nothing like she described. She has had the pup longer than Dee and putting the blame on her. Just terrible. My pup from Penny and Ronnie's litter is just wonderful! He is healthy, smart and beautiful. We would definitely recommend Dee and would definitely get another pup from her.

C
Author of the review
C
C Elster
, US
Apr 02, 2018 11:09 am EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

My puppy was described by Danielle, owner of Magic Scissors as long in the body which defines osteochondrodysplasia, the same condition exhibited by her mother Penny. Dee is not breeding for correct conformation, she breeds for the money and nothing else. Neither parent was groomed when I picked up my puppy, nor did Dee offer to bring them over for inspection as they stood at a distance of many feet. This was to hide that neither parent was qualified for breeding. The breeder that rescued Penny described her as too long in the body so automatically disqualified for breeding. The breeder who did Dee the favor of rescuing several dogs from her (shame on you Dee) was not on any vendetta, but happens to be an honest person who did not approve of the pigsty conditions she found at Dee's residence. Why does Dee need her dogs rescued if there isn't a big problem somewhere? That alone is a huge red flag. Dishonest Dee.

C
Author of the review
C
C Elster
, US
May 14, 2018 1:35 pm EDT
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Dee Schaal never described the puppy as shy or one requiring any work. That is an outright falsehood. She never had the parents approach us for a closeup exam and neither was groomed, so their actual proportions were not visible. Take a look at the picture of Penny. Dee offered NO guarantee of any kind. She is a crooked, disreputable breeder and I own the puppy who is proof of her careless, greedy-for-money breeding. You are defending something that is not defensible and the other breeder who helped her by taking many of her dogs and getting them placed after paying out of her pocket for vet care that they needed. Dee Schaal is ever so disreputable. I did specify ahead of time to her that I wanted a "square" build. You are trying to defend someone that is not honorable in any way. Your defense is like Dee's
blastomycosis excuse for not issuing a health guarantee. I never mentioned poodle dwarfism, but you sure managed to come up with it as an obfuscation. You too are dishonorable. It is osteochoendrodysplasia when the dog is longer than their height, creating spinal problems.

C
Author of the review
C
C Elster
, US
May 14, 2018 1:36 pm EDT
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Replying to comment of C Elster

Correction: osteochondrodysplasia

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Poodlesforever
, US
Jan 22, 2018 1:20 pm EST

I have a puppy from Penny and Ronnie's litter from 2016. A boy, he is healthy and very sweet. I totally disagree with the above complaint. He is super smart does not have health issues at all. Dee is a good breeder, from the complaint above she offered another dog. I don't understand. Our dog is housebroken. He was completely house broken within the first few months of his life. He only had a couple of accidents. He is friendly knows commands sit, stay, come, army crawl, speak, and pack it up. Pack it up is a fun command I made. I can walk him without a leash and he will heal. He is super good. I follow Cesar Milan's training methods. I am not sure how you are training your dog but if you had the dog for over a year how is it the breeders fault? It doesn't make sense. I would definitely recommend Dee and would definitely get another puppy from her.