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Just want to get the word out about a dog this breeder is breeding. The female is Casee and the sire was Costner who actually passed away. We have purchased a puppy from this breeder with major orthopedic issues, elbow dysplasia, medial patella luxations in BOTH knees and our dog is only 1 year old! I have contacted the breeder and despite my efforts in informing her of these issues, she is continuing to breed this dog! I just want potential buyers to BE AWARE!
My only mission here is to get the word out about a dog(Casee) that she is breeding and we have a puppy from one of Casee's litters. Despite the OFA certifications on Casee our puppy has MAJOR orthopedic issues and I have provided the documentation from the OFA as proof to this breeder. She has chosen to ignore this information and continue breeding Casee. Casee may have OFA certifications on her, but now she has produced a puppy with a major genetic issues, so in my opinion her OFA certifications are meaningless! All I am asking the breeder to do is to consider NOT breeding Casee anymore because this puts many other families at risk for the same problem and I feel this is irresponsible and not fair to others! People that buy puppies from any of Casee's future litters have a right to know this information...So BUYER BEWARE! if you want to buy a dog from one of Casee's litters and take on this risk...Then be my guest! You have been informed.
Also in comment to the breeder offering us another puppy. This was a very generous offer, however, we would rather have the $1000 that we paid for our puppy so that we could use that money to pay for the surgery our 1 year old Golden desperately needs! The breeder refused to consider giving us any of the money that we paid for this puppy. We felt that $1000 was a small price to pay for the hell our family has been through over the last year. We are devastated!
Another comment to one of the breeder's posts. Yes our golden has medial patella luxations and there may be no OFA certifications that can be done for this, however, our dog still has this condition and is a product of her breeding. Also, what the breeder does NOT mention is that our other orthopedic complaint is elbow dysplasia and our golden has that and we have OFA documentation to prove it. We have provided this documentation to the breeder and yet she still continues to breed Casee. I am not mentioning the sire Costner in my complaint as he had mysteriously passed after we received our puppy so she can no longer breed him anymore. When our family asked why Costner had passed, the breeder was very elusive and never really gave us a straight answer. My focus now is warning people who consider puppies from any of Casee's litters.
I have tried to upload a picture of our dog that we purchased from this breeder that was taken a few months ago. He actually would lie down to eat and drink because his legs are in such bad shape, he was in pain! We have him on medication and he is doing better with his pain, but he still requires surgery to correct some of these orthopedic problems. I'm not sure the picture has come through or not. Hopefully the picture did upload, so that others can see what our reality is.
Again, if you want to do everything in your power to prevent this from happening again, then STOP BREEDING CASEE! We were from Casee's first litter 16 months ago. There are NO puppies from Casee older than that! This is FACT and our puppy has ELBOW DYSPLASIA AND MEDIAL PATELLA LUXATIONS in both knees! So if you want to hide behind your OFA certifications, then go right ahead! You cannot change the fact that Casee has produced a dog with ALL of these issues and you choose to ignore it and keep breeding her! I have exposed this as fact, so people have been warned. My job here is done.
A comment to 51Cathyjo: in one of your prior posts you stated: "this Golden has very GOOD rating on her OFA (Orthopedic Foundation of Animals) and has NOT produced a bad puppy". I think you might be misunderstanding this. Casee HAS produced a bad puppy and I have OFA documentation to prove it! At the breeder's request, I sent my puppy's Xrays to the OFA and had them verify the diagnosis of ELBOW DYSPLASIA and I have sent that documentation to the breeder per her request. She chooses to ignore this information and call this incident a "rarity" even though she has only been breeding this dog for 16 months. In my opinion, this is unethical and NOT doing everything in her power to keep this from happening again.
Another comment to 51Cathyjo, I believe the breeder's offer of another puppy was generous and I have stated that in this debate, however, we cannot financially afford to take on another puppy given the surgeries my current puppy needs. Also, the breeder made it very clear to me that if I accepted another puppy from her, I would NOT be able to sell that puppy to get the money for our dog's surgery. I couldn't do that anyway! This is a living creature, so if I did adopt another puppy, I would commit to loving and taking care of it the duration of it's life! Also, in light of the fact that this breeder continues to breed a dog that has produced a puppy with SEVERE orthopedic issues and she chooses to ignore it and call it a fluke, I could not in my right mind, accept another animal from her and take that risk! I pleaded with her to consider giving us our money instead of another puppy so we could put that money towards our dog's surgery, but she declined. I have accepted that. My complaint filed here is only to warn others that she is breeding a dog she knows has produced these issues and is putting others at risk by ignoring the information that was provided to her from the OFA on our puppy.
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Noticed the website said their beloved Sire Chaser was retired April 1, 2015 and in his "retirement home" Interesting since he was picked up and adopted from a shelter recently. Who dumped him there?
I also purchased a dog from this breeder. He is one year old and is on his second surgery for luxating patellas in both of his knees. The first surgery was $4000, today we find out the extent of the second surgery on the opposite leg. I called Sue to let her know about the issues. She didn't t even ask the name of the parents, and said knees are not covered under the health guarantee. Wished me luck... Very disappointed with this breeder...and sad our sweet golden has had such pain these last couple of months. Do not recommend her at all.
Cases is not listed anywhere on site except in "hopefuls" page explaining future breedings. What happened to her? Why no mention if she is ok to breed.
We, too, purchased our dog from this breeder.
Shadow was born 2/8/08, a product of Chaney and Costner. Since we have had him, he has torn both ACL's (cost of repair: $1, 400/knee by our vet) and has developed hypothyroidism for which he is on medication. Bottom line - stuff happens.
Shadow has been a GREAT dog and a tremendous addition to our family. If we had it to do over again, we would purchase our dog from Ke-Li's Golden Acres' Retrievers. We felt they were completely honest with us and kept nothing from us. We knew when we bought him things could happen. Sue Chandler was completely open with us and I am convinced we were not the exception.
J. Feist
Union, KY
They are backyard breeders with clearances. Steer clear. Mine is very sickly. Certainly also lying about not being greedy. At $1000 + for a puppy & how fast she breeds them how can she deny her greed. I feel for those puppies kept in welping area their entire 1st 6 wks--no sun no sky no grass--they are crazy when you get them. Vet bills over $1000 & still growing. We are experienced owners--have trained another golden for service dog. Look elsewhere for your precious family member. They are beautiful dogs & could be perfect if treated better as puppies. Any really caring good breeder keeps them until 8 wks. If they get rid of at 6 wks it is simply greed. Momma teaches them a lot those last 2 wks. Love my baby so much. I would get another if breeder treated them
better. Ill sure spread the word.
Kfa12. You are so right. She is not very nice. Anyone be sure to get contract ahead of time. She would never let us come see the parents & they weren't kept in the nice kennel she pictures on site. Have puppy. Sick since receipt. Spent over $1000. Afraid of sue. She blames everyone else. Would a reputable breeder breed a dog three months after it gave birth? She did. Greed.
On 25 January 2011 The Marbella Court issued judgment against Mr Carmelo Salvatore Firetto (aka Mr Carlo Firetto) finding Mr Firetto had failed to pay any rent what so ever on the De Carlo Restaurant and the Marbella Court ordered Mr Firetto to pay the unpaid rent, to pay his 5 months unpaid electric bills, his rental contract of the Restaurant was terminated by The Court, he was ordered by The Court to vacate the Restaurant and he was ordered to pay the costs of the court case. He appealed by claiming the rent should have been lower than had been claimed, but he lost his appeal and the Judge noted that Mr Firetto had not even paid any of the rent at the lower rate he had claimed was due. Mr Firetto issued a criminal complaint in the Marbella Court alleging the rent claimed was higher than it should have been, but he lost the claim and appealed but he lost the appeal. He appealed to the Malaga court but he lost that appeal. Mr Firetto was later convicted in the criminal court of threatening to kill his landlord and driving his car at his landlord.
This may be a little bit removed from the timelines of this complaint thread, however since there are breeders and buyers both throughout it may be a good place to pose this question. Is it appropriate for a breeder, once in receipt of deposits for future litters to email the buyers (with deposits already invested) requesting donations after a difficult breeding season? This practice at first glance seems worrisome given the breeder/buyer relationship is a business transaction and could put the buyers in an uncomfortable position. There are several comments here about breeders not being in the business for the money, but this seems more like an action expected of a true not-for-profit. Is this a common practice for breeders during off years when things just don't work out?
This breeder, Sue, has been nothing but a piece of work. She is rude, disrespectful, and has a chip on her shoulder. She seems to think her golden's are something special, and acts like she is better than everyone else because of it. It doesn't surprise me at all that is she is breeding this ### because she is obviously only in it for the money. Good breeders don't make profits! After my interaction with her and these complaints, I have informed 3 kennel clubs to NOT reccomend her, I have also told my trainer and 4 Golden Retriever breeders I am friends with. Hopefully, this will stop people from having to deal with her attitude and from getting substandard puppies.
Anyone looking for a Golden Retriever, English Golden Retriever, etc:
Please use only breeders who follow the Golden Retriever Club of America's (GRCA) Code of Ethics and Breeding Guidelines. This will help to get you the healthiest puppy possible.
From the GRCA.org website. Please note that 24 months is specifically addressed as the age for final clearances for both dogs in the US and for dogs that were imported from OUTSIDE the US. It also specifies when/how often eye exams should be done and what kind of vet should be doing heart clearances:
a. Hips – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals; or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from a health registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country (e.g. Canada - Ontario Veterinary College; Great Britain - BVA/KC Hip Score) A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.
b.Eyes – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology (ACVO) or from a BVA/KC approved ophthalmologist (Great Britain), or a report from the Canine Eye Registry Foundation. For dogs outside the U.S., a report from an ophthalmologist as recommended by the Golden Retriever club of that country after 1 year of age. Examinations must be done within 12 months of a breeding.
c. Hearts – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Medicine, Cardiology Specialty or a certification by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals by a cardiologist (the number will be followed by a C) at 12 months of age or older.
d. Elbows – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from a health registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country at 24 months of age or older. A report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.
Please no
we too purchase credits from this site. 1 hour later after talking to a gril in asia w/ a dog barking in the backround, childre crying the credits were added to my sons account only to be removed a short time later BEFORE he could use them. I called this co back on the phone # they called me from and was told OH well there is nothing we can do. I have filed a complaint w/ paypal and they were unable to pursue it as the goods are not tangible. I have filed another complaint w/ my CC to recoup the funds.
this place is the worse and most dishonets I have seen in this line of business. In hindsight I should have know better there are too many sites w/ the same "main" email.
There should be a way to stop this fradulaent business
Proverbs 18:13 "What a shame, what folly, to give advice before listening to the facts!
I simply have to disagree with saying this does not hurt this individuals reputation and possible business. When you browse for her web site you see just a few down from her listing this “Buyer Beware”. To me this is a crime. From what I have read you have an individual who purchased a dog from what in all rights seems to be a conscientious breeder. This individual dog develops elbow not hip dysplasia. This individual contacts this breeder and request’s a full refund but wants to keep the dog. A request that both parties know is not part of a signed contract. Did this individual then demand that this breeder remove the dam from her breeding program or just tell her that if she didn’t then a “Buyer Beware would be issued against her?
Right or wrong to me the terms extortion, blackmail, and hypocrite all fit the buyer of this dog not the breeder. I can think of thousands of scenarios where if you had a problem and ask for something different than you’re agreed upon contract, where you want a full refund and still keep the object you have had a problem with would be ludicrous. Again reading all of these comments I would say that the breeder has more evidence that the buyer is the cause for this “elbow dysplasia” than the owner does in blaming genetics. Sure post and run and get some sense of revenge and hide it under the belief that you don’t want to see anyone suffer the way you have. To me this web site is almost above the law. Judges at least hear both sides of a story and make a decision because they have earned the right to do so. Here you don’t get what you want so lets get back with a “Buyer Beware” and make people read how you feel this person or company did you wrong. I challenge anyone to go through this web site and find another complaint where the individual who is complaining was offered above and beyond the agreed upon contract they signed and yet still issued a complaint.
MyTwistedSister, at no point was a I talking about you as a "post and run" person. I was referring to the many people that post a new complaint and you never hear from them again, which I am willing to wager is about 95% of the people that post new complaints on this site. I was not referring to you, or anyone else who is regular poster here.
The point I made is that 99% of the companies/people that have complaints filed against them never defend themselves. SUE C did, which I had to give props to since it is so rare to see. I don't know anything about you, MyTwistedSister, nor did I try to imply anything about you one way or the other. My post was directed to SUE C, not anyone else.
SUE C, my advice is just let go and don't look back. I, along with many others, post on this board because we all have strong opinions about companies, but also what people are complaining about. The fact is that you have defended yourself more than anyone I've seen on this site who has had a complaint lodged against them. Please understand that no matter how much you post, you are not going to sway many people. I have read all the posts here, and I am not going to share my opinion one way or the either as it does not matter what I personally think since I never purchased a puppy from you and don't know anything about your breeding services besides what I have read here.
Just know that for the most part, it is the same 50 people posting over and over again here. The vast majority that have posted complaints do what is called a "post and run, " which means they vent once, and never come back. I am telling you this because I don't think your business is going to suffer based on this one complaint. You've made your point and defense, which is great because not many people that have complaints filed against them will do. All I am saying is I would walk away and ignore anymore that is posted here, unless you enjoy the back and forth with the other posters. At the end of the day, this board is just like any other forum out there. You have haters and supports. You can either just ignore all of this, and it will eventually be buried by other complaints, or you can keep the fires burning and this will go on and on in a never ending loop.
Like I said, thank you for coming on and defending yourself. You've defended yourself, now move on and stop letting these people get to you.
Another point, TwistedSister. IF you would have read the numerous comments before you commented..you would have seen that I offered this family a puppy at NO charge AND they could keep theirs, which is over and beyond what my contract states. I have done everything to appease them and more!
I do admit that all of those that have posted testimonies on this board, though, ARE FRIENDS! That happens when you have a great relationship with those that adopt puppies from you for all these years! Before then, we were only strangers that hadn't met yet.
You bet! I would LOVE to give owners names of my Veterinarians. In fact, I already did! They KNOW the time, effort and money that I have invested in my Goldens! And TwistedSister(?) looks like you have made many comments in the past...perhaps you are a "cyber bully" like Zachary, or just have too much time on your hands. Your name is a bit leary!
And, know, I don't kill puppies I have saved hundreds! The comments on this board that have praised me are actual families that have adopted my puppies. Sorry, but most of my relatives are dead, so no chance that is going to happen!
Thank you for the comment regarding my pretty web site, though! I do it myself, I don't HIRE anyone to do my website, paperwork or kennel work...all done by my husband, daughter and myself! A lot of physical work for a couple in their mid 50's.
Two days ago, I went even more above and beyond what my contract states! I offered these people a REFUND...IF they would take this complaint off of the Internet, apologise to me on a different board for all to see AND if they didn't continually try to run my kennel (which dogs are to be bred) since they are clearly not informed, knowledgeable or experienced as I am in this field or breed! They are NEW puppy owners and have jumped to conclusions because of their inexperience and tried to place the blame on someone (me) who has NO CONTROL over what happens to their Golden as it ages. Clearly this COULD HAVE been a result of over exercise or nutrition which are just as cruel, if not more so, than inherited diseases, as they could have been prevented! My contract also CLEARLY states that if the dysplasia is caused by the owner (slippery surfaces, continuous use of stairs at a young age/before 18 months, nutrition or over exercise) that the contract is NULL and VOID). I, therefore, would like to state that all of their claims are not substantiated and the attempt to place the blame on me has failed. Because of the duress they have tried to subject me too, I do retract all offers that I have made to them OVER AND BEYOND what my contract states! It appears that this was not only about money to these puppy owners but pride as well! Again, I would like to thank SINCERELY all of those families that took the time to express their testimonies on this board regarding my reputation and quality of puppies that are produced here. I also want to thank them for their prayers and encouragment through what was a very trying time for me due to such a family as this! It is beyond my comprehension how and why people can be so cruel! I end this comment with these encouraging words sent to me by a dear friend of mine; QUOTE, "Try not to let Satan have a field day with your thoughts on this. Focus on Him, not this stuff".
@ tubie
It may seem peculiar, but Sue did not force anyone to send anything. I sent (as I'm sure others did) on their own accord. As someone who KNOWS about reputation needing protected when it deserves to be, I'm certainly going to speak my part: THE TRUTH. I simply stated the facts as they appear. Just because ONE person (and their husband) decided to post complaints, does not mean that the many other people (however high the number) does not have the right to defend what they experienced at this kennel. I don't think it's justifiable to slam someone's reputation and forget to mention vital details (like the breeder offering ANOTHER PUPPY) without expecting things to backlash. If my reputation as a teacher was ever hurt by someone who does not provide truthful details, I know that my fellow teachers, families, friends, and colleagues would defend my name to the core. Who cares if she sent an email out? If these people are so true in what they accuse her of, I don't think that this many people would have posted in a 24 hour time period. It speaks for itself. Bottom line: love the puppy, take care of the puppy, and if he/she means enough to you, you'll do what it takes to handle the situation and NOT find any and every reason to place the blame.
Everybody who knows Sue Chandler (the breeder) knows what a wonderful person she is and how much she cares about each single of her dogs. We have a now 2.5 year old Golden from Sue (Derby), and we met with Sue several time before picking up the dog. It is amazing how much she cares, even after we had Derby for several month. When we had an emergency situation Sue immediately volunteered to take Derby in if needed. She reached out so much, and that is the way she is. I have a friend with twins, both healthy and wonderful. She recently gave birth to a 3rd child, and this child is sick. Yes, it is in the nature that things like that happen - and NOBODY can influence that. Would you judge my friend as bad parents because god decided that this child is sick? Apparently the same happens with dogs. If Sue would have had any doubt I am so very sure she would not have sold that puppy. Please do not blame Sue. She is a breeder that cares and will do everytying for you. We would always buy another dog from her. Derby and her parents - now living in Arizona.
I have read all of the comments that have been issued against this buyer beware. From this information I have made the following determinations. KE-LI’s Golden Acres seems reputable, from the input of others as well as my own personal experience I would agree with the statement that this dysplasia appears to be an isolated issue and I too what continue to breed the dog.
I have to ask myself this, if this breeder did what the owner of this dog asked for and would have sent a check for $1000 would this owner have still issued this buyer beware. I don’t know of too many individuals who ask for and then get exactly what they have asked for only to turn around and bash the individual or company that has given it to them. Those who do I would not think very highly of.
I have known Sue and her family for many years and the accusations about her breeding only for the money and not caring about family's is absurd! She would give you the shirt off her back if you needed it. I have personally seen alot of the puppies she has sold as well as the dogs she has in her kennel and they are definitly top notch. Sue takes pride in her breeding and kennel. She IS a reputable breeder and she DOES abide by her contract. She did try to reason with you and you chose not to accept . Now you want to try to be-little her kennel and act like she is an unfair person running an unfair business?! In my opinion kennel owner's need to BEWARE of YOU! Amy Sellars
No, Tubie, make that 10! I simply cut and pasted this complaint board address to a few families that have adopted puppies from me in the past several years. The ones that I have remained close to over the years and still had email addresses for. So many hundreds of families still out there that I couldn't contact that have similar stories to tell. Not only are these families part of my family now since they have adopted one of my puppies (some 2 and 3), but they are also wonderful Christian people that have been by my side in hard times and good times. We pray together and we care about one another. That is what FAMILY is all about! I thank God for each one of them and that He chose me for such a ministry as this!
We purchased 'Nadia' from Sue 2 years ago this coming July. Nadia has been a Godsend and a blessing to our family. As has Sue. We lost our golden 'Sunshine' shortly before I called Sue in tears after seeing her sight online. I just wanted to talk about her dogs and goldens in general. Sunshine had been with our family for 12 years and I was just sad. Sue was so kind and compassionate about our loss. She talked and talked to me, I am sure knowing I was not anywhere near ready for a pup. We talked about her kids and mine, losing family, and how amazingly difficult it is to lose a pet who has been with you through so many great and difficult times. It was the first dog I had ever owned and losing a pet is really hard. She did not try to sell me one of her dogs, she just cared about our loss. Eventually after talking with my husband we decided to see if we could go on a waiting list. Sue was wonderful with updates and answering questions. Since we got 'Nadia" I have called e-mailed several times over the past 19 months with questions; and she has always been available with help or called me back. Nadia has been healthy, is breed standard in her size, is wildly intelligent and we constantly get compliments on her beauty. Better than all of this is her gentle and sweet tempermant. I am so sad for the owners of the dog mentioned. I remember how difficult it was when Sunshine was ill. My heart breaks for your pain. I in no way write this to make light of your pain. I just really love Sue and am so grateful for the blessing we have in our 'Nadia' and the kindness that she showed our family when she didn't know us from Adam.
We purchased our Golden Charlie, just about three years ago. His Sire was Costner. Charlie is the best Golden we have owned, our third. Sue was wonderful to deal with and we stay in contact with her. We would never hesitate to purchase another dog. We know our next Golden will be from Ke-Li's. Anyone to question Sue as a breeder is a fool-and probably not experienced in owning dogs. We know Sue loves all her Goldens and all her animals
Our experience with our previous Golden not from Ke-Li's who was diagnosed with renal failure by the University of Minnesota,
they said he needed "major surgery" or he would not live to be 6 months of age.
Our Shadow lived to the ripe old age 14!
We believe that some Vet Hospitals think surgery is the only route, and are in it for the teaching aspect.
We purchased a Golden puppy from Sue just over 2 years ago. Murphy is a gorgeous, healthy, and beloved member of our family. The experience of dealing with Sue has been nothing but POSITIVE for us. I did so much research and corresponded with Sue for over a year before our family made the final decision to get a puppy. I have pages and pages of emails that we exchanged. She went above and beyond what we expected of her. We had previously owned a Golden from a "backyard breeder" and we wanted to do it RIGHT this time. We have 2 young children and Murphy has the best temperament. He's a perfect example of what the breed should be. I can't tell you how many people have stopped me and asked me where I got Murphy. Sue is dedicated to these dogs. I have and will continue to recommend Sue to anyone who is looking to add a Golden to their family. We drove halfway across the state of Indiana to use Ke-Li's Golden Acres' Retrievers and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Wow - no fewer than 7 puppy buyers all joined this board on the same date to post nice things about this breeder. Does that seem a little peculiar to anyone else?
I purchased a golden from Sue that is now just over a year old. I did some exhaustive research after we lost our first golden, and Sue was one we decided to contact even though she is in the complete other end of the state. Immediately upon speaking with her I had a feeling she was the right one. I did not jump right in, but after discussion with my wife, we both decided Ke-Li's was the breeder to use. Our puppy, Murphy, has been a complete joy. He had HUGE paws to fill from our beloved Hoosier, but is well on his way to being just as great a dog as he was. Our vet has raved about Murphy in every visit, and the staff always jokes about taking him home. We have asked about his hips, knowing he is too young to have them checked, and the vet tells us his hips, elbows, and eyes look great at this time. You will NEVER convince me that Sue is a bad breeder. I have recommended her to friends of mine, but not many people want to drive the 6 hours to get a pup. I, on the other hand, will NEVER use another breeder. KR
We have a perfect Golden that we purchased from this breeder. We couldn't be happier with our dog & would not go anywhere else to get a Golden. I've recommended her to many of my friends and will keep doing so as I feel her heart and abilities are all in the right place. Thank you, Sue, for your continued dedication towards the breed!
I agree with djalmurphy and may I add, well stated. We have purchased 2 goldens from Sue. Both being the product of Cissy and Costner. Our oldest Golden is 5, and is a certified Search and Rescue HRD dog. Our second one is 14 months old, and is in training for Search and Rescue. Both dogs visit the vet regularly, and are very healthy. I am of the opinion that genetics are not the only factor when speaking of dysplasia. Puppies are still developing bone and muscle up to the age of 2. Being full of energy, puppies can be easily overran during play time. Caution should also be taken with agility equipment, handling, and jumping up and down from high surfaces.
Sue is a wonderful breeder, and I highly recommend her to everyone.
RJS
My husband and I purchased a puppy from Sue. We have had a WONDERFUL experience. I think it is both sad and ridiculous that these allegations have gone this far when she CLEARLY is a repuatble breeder. I have been in contact with Sue with questions both before and after receiving our puppy, Maggie. She has always been more than willing to help. The professionalism shown in person, via phone and on her webpage clearly speak for themselves. Sometimes things can happen that is out of our control. As an owner of an older golden retriever (which came from a pet store/puppy mill), my husband and I experienced firsthand the trauma of owning an imbred, large breed dog. We were extremely cautious in our choosing of a breeder. It was not an "overnight" decision. Her website is clearly laid out. I pulled my own contract (which, I am sure is the same) and found the clearances and the things that are not covered. She has been kind enough to offer another puppy. It seems that at this point, you have only a few goals in mind: Destroying her reputation as a breeder, and Trying to argue your way out of a contract for benefits (money). Your main concern should be the PUPPY. I believe that Sue has been MORE than fair in her actions. If she had any malintent, you wouldn't have had a gracious offer of another puppy. Their pedigree PROVES that they are not just "ordinary" puppies. The price is fair. The contract is clear. The customer is being absurd and has NO proof of any wrongdoing on Sue's behalf. If you (the customer) were really concerned about the puppy, you would be handling this situation in a mature manner. I don't think that ANY amount of effort will be enough for this person.
In 2002 our family bought a golden from a breeder we thought was reputable. She, the dog, is not typical of the breed, even though we checked all the clearances, etc. She is hyper, has difficulties getting up, etc. So, I totally get your pain. We adore her regardless of this, just as you do with yours. We opted not to do surgery, but rather did other things to try and help her. The breeder offered nothing other than to return the dog...hah! Yeah right, with three kids and two adults in love with her! The breeder is now defunct...and I know you won't believe me, so the breeder was Maple Ridge Goldens. However, upon deciding to get a second puppy, a golden again, we did a boat load more of research. We called our vet for starters on recommendations for reputable breeders in the area (she didn't know a single one she would recommend!), the local GR society and ones in the northern and southern part of the state. Our local society would NOT recommend any breeders. They said, check them out very, very carefully. We did. It took us a year and a half to find a breeder in the midwest that we trusted and checked out thoroughly. We even sacrificed a down payment on a pup when we felt as though the breeder was not trustworthy (even though we had checked her out thoroughly). We finally found a breeder we trusted. We bugged her with a lot of phone calls, emails and tough questions. We got an amazing pup from this place. He is solid through and through. He is incredibly typical of the breed. Our vet cannot stop commenting on how good of a golden we have. Our trainer, who has been working with dogs for over 15 years said this is the second golden that he has worked with that he thought was a product of good breeding! People stop us on the street to comment on him and ask where we got him. He is now two and is a product of Ke-Li's Golden Retrievers.
I purchased a Golden puppy in 2007 from Sue. His father was Cosner and we have had no problems at all. Every vet check Hank is found to be very healthy and is full of energy. I thought Sue was very reputable and could not have been happier with the service she gave and the health and personality of Hank. He is a wild man but that is just typical of a healthy and happy Golden.
Everyone,
I have always bought my dogs from breeders. You ALWAYS run the risk of having a puppy that may eventually have problems...even if the parents are perfect. That is why breeders have contracts. The people who received this puppy clearly did not understand this and clearly did not understand their contract.
It sounds to me as if the breeder went above and beyond her responsibility and bounds of her contract in order to remedy the situation. I understand the people who bought the puppy love their dog extremely. However, the breeder did nothing wrong. The reason why Casee does not have any older litters is because you cannot breed a dog until the dog turns 2. If she just recently turned 2 then she wouldn't have an older litter now would she?
This is a rare thing that happened...it happens in life sometimes.
One "not so good puppy" that occurred in a sea of wonderfully bred puppies is one of those things you chalk up to coincedence. I'm sorry that others cannot see that.
I have to give you credit for DOING SOME RESEARCH! And having an argument worth listening to! I appreciate that, I REALLY DO!
I was familiar with Goldenquest Sandra Dee with a mild unilateral deficiency. However, I was not aware of Old Irons Beautiful Alexis having mild dysplasia. Hips or elbows? The owners are arguing elbow dysplasia in the bloodlines, I see nothing of this nature in Casee or Costner's bloodlines. And I am without a doubt if you look hard enough you will find something in either ones ancestory. It would be impossible to continue a "perfect" bloodline in any breed of dog. My Orthopedic Surgeon spoke with me in detail a year or so ago, that Goldens have been so poorly bred that instead of taking a chance and testing them for elbow or hip dysplasia they will go with a Penn Hip instead as buyers cannot translate a percentage like they can understand - Fair/Good/Excellent. However, you must also know that OFA's ratings are not 100% accurate either. You can go to many different sites and see that it is not a mathmatical rating nor as accurate of a rating as that of a Penn-Hip evaluation. A rating of 50% or higher is satisfactory with Penn-Hip. This method is not widely used and I have not rated my Goldens this way as I think it is even more confusing than OFA to buyers. What so many don't understand is that OFA is really all we have right now to evaluate and they aren't always reliable. Hundreds of dollars spent, but the best we can do is this for now. There is no means to rate anything that is 100% certain. And any breeder can have their dogs "retested" and many of those dogs have received a better rating the second time; mostly those who rate "FAIR" and move up in rating to a "GOOD". I have seen some borderline and some with mild dysplasia also be reevaluated and pass the next time. This is many times due to the individuals taking the X-rays as they may not be as experienced or not even have an Orthopedic Surgeon on staff at all at that clinic! I have seen Radiologist make a lot of errors in the years I have been breeding. That is why I require proof from OFA of any heart or dyplasia claims. That is also why I have my Orthopedic Surgeon do all of my X-rays.
Chili does or did have entropian when her eyes were tested at 5 months old. The Opthomologist told me that I should have not done any surgery to her eyes until after she was 2 years old and we see how her eyes change as this is a condition they can grow out of. They put a small stitch or "tack" the eye lid until they are 1-2 years old and they reevaluate. I do not plan on ever showing her. CERF knowing what was in her report did give her a passing grade, though CERF GR-42138/2009--6. They will NOT do that if they believe it is going to be a problem in breeding. I most certainly do plan to breed Cydney and Cello. Cydney just turned 2 years old last month. The preliminaries had to be done per the breeders that I purchased them from as they were only guaranteed on their hereditary clearances for 6 MONTHS! It does cost the exact same to redo them when they are 2 years of age, however, the prelims are a very conservative evalation and is approximately 95-99% accurate as when the finals are done PER G.G. KELLER D.V.M., M.S., DACVR Chief o Veterinary Services at OFA. I spoke to him, directly, many years ago regarding this matter. NEVER has any of my dogs been bred prior to their 2nd birthday and never just on prelims, however, this is very common for a breeder to do when they are familiar with the bloodlines. I have very close ties with the breeder that Cydney came from, CELLO DOESN'T EVEN TURN 2 YEARS OLD UNTIL JULY OF 2011!
Many breeders do not report their dogs' clearances on OFA, CERF and SAS on k9data web site. That does NOT mean they are not cleared or have not passed.
Yes, I still feel that I can say with all confidence that this is still a fluke, whether you think I am "kidding myself" or not. I don't know if you are a breeder or have great knowledge of Goldens or are just somewhat experienced in how to obtain this information. But it is so much more than black and white. Casee and Costner have excellent bloodlines with minor faults compared to many out there, so I have no regrets purchasing these Goldens or breeding them.
ALSO, ANOTHER POINT THAT WAS MADE BY CATHY, IS THAT Hip AND ELBOW dysplasia can be caused by injury, poor nutrition, obesity or abuse! I do NOT believe that the owners abused this puppy in any way, but they are "new" puppy owners, therefore, slippery surfaces last winter or injury also "could have" caused mild dysplasia in its elbows.
Again the issue that these individuals are most concerned with is the luxation in the patellas of this dog's KNEES, which is something we do not test for in large breed dogs. I have received the report from this couple regarding their dog's elbows, and it does state that the condition is "mild".
Uh Sue C,
Your research is faulty if you didn't know that Aspenglo's Angel Fire was mildly dysplastic (she's Casee's great-grandmother - so only 3 gens back on her sire's side). Also, Maclightning Hearted Huntsman, Laurel's Lightearted Lady, Laurell's Lightfoot, and Trusti Trish (3 & 4 gens back on her dams side) have NO verifiable information listed on OFA.
Conner (Casee's sire) has sired two dogs with Hip Dysplasia - Goldenquest-Sandra-Dee-Gorham (Mild Unilateral Right) and Old Irons Beautiful Alexis (Mild). These are half-siblings to Casee out of two different ###.
You have at least 2 ### that you list on your site that you are saying are going to be bred on Prelim clearances. You state that Cydney's prelim hips came back Fair - you are aware that OFA's stand on this is "dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months)."? Your ### Chilli's latest CERF report states that she has entropion - an eye disorder that would get her excused from the show ring. Your stud dog's last verifiable CERF was done in 2007. Casee's last verifiable CERF was done in 2008. If your dog's eye exams are not submitted to CERF, your dogs are not CERF'd. They are ACVIM-cleared. CERFS/eye exams should be done every year, not once in a dogs' lifetime.
It took me all of 20 mins to find this information. The information about Angel Fire is common knowledge among those who actually research and compete with their Golden Retrievers.
Yes, you can say that this dogs' problems are a fluke but you are kidding yourself if you think that your lines are free from these issues.
I just want to close in saying that I feel very badly for this family and the situation they are facing. We all have many trials in our lives and for whatever reason, some of us more than others. Perhaps it is so we can be more compassionate people. This is what I do for a living. I do it well and I am experienced and informed. I have studied pedigrees and am responsible enough to know that prevention is the best medicine. I have done all I can to be certain that my Goldens are healthy and happy are rear puppies of the same. I have made 100's of families very happy with my efforts. When doing anything for as long as I have, there are bound to be some bad events that happen. It's life. Life is not perfect as we live in a fallen world. I am content in saying that I feel that I have been fair and above reasonable with this family. If they continue to think they can control my kennel and my decisions because of thier bad experience they cannot. Just like a good doctor that is plighted with a lawsuit for all the years of good he/she does and is labored with a lawsuit because of one familes' bad misforture. One situation is not enough to say that any practice is bad, especially for all the years of dedicated service. I hope Dudley makes a quick recovery if and when you decide to move forward in your decision to put him through this surgery. Again, that is your decision whether I would do the same or not. Personally, I don't think I would. Unfortunately, large breed breeders do not test for the luxation in the patella and that is unfortunate but the odds are so rare that they deem this unnecessary. As far as the elbows, from the reports that I were given, it is a mild case. Hopefully the treatment you spoke of late last year will be affective in supplying some comfort to his elbows. I would hope that you have made your point and have let off some steam and can let this rest for all of our sakes. I will continue to breed to the best of my ability with the knowledge that I have acquired for these past 3 decades. Good luck and God bless.
Not really Zachary! I am basing my comments on FACTS you are not!
To Maddie Moo, I think you are missing the point. This person who has the sick puppy wants MORE than the money. (which she was offered through another puppy) but is demanding that Sue stop breeding her Golden which is unreasonable since this Golden has very GOOD rating on her OFA (Orthopedic Foundation of Animals) and has NOT produced a bad puppy. She has done everything that an EXCELLENT dog breeder would do so this demand is ridiculous at the most.