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Mink RagdollsMink Ragdolls are outcrosses of RagaMuffins

C Review updated:

This Cattery currently displays outdated TICA Ragdoll Pedigrees on their Website.Irene has been advised that this is confusing the General Public into believing her Mink Ragdolls have been an established and accepted part of the Ragdoll Breed since the very inception of the Breed. This is not true. Mink and Sepia Ragdolls were derived from outcrosses to the RagaMuffin Breed. Irene needs to update her current website and the pedigrees she has posted.She needs to clearly state that the Sepia gene was introduced by outcrossing Ragdolls to the more popular RagaMuffin Breed. Mink Ragdolls are currently Ragdoll Breed Variants and are not inclusive to any written Ragdoll Breed Standard. I've included a website which clearly defines how Mink Ragdoll occured

http://www.eiserblew.co.uk/ragamuffin.htm

Responses

  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Sep 17, 2009

    "Did you know...you can obtain a Ragdoll kitten in solid? mink? smoke? shaded? Yes, the mink and solid Ragdoll I speak of are purebred, TICA registered Ragdoll kittens, not crosses to another breed."


    This is a blantant lie on the part of Irene...

    0 Votes
  • Ke
    Kellyr6 Sep 26, 2009

    I happen to see this posting on mink Ragdolls. In the begining Ann Baker the originator of the Ragdoll breed started DEVELOPING Ragdolls which are a definate part of the RAGGAMUFFIN without Ragdoll the Raggamuffin woudl never be its own breed today. When Ann bakers breeding helpers wanted to branch off they made there oqn breed called Raggamuffin using the Ragdoll lines other breeds may have been added later but certain old lines still exist that are older ragdoll lines that ARE the colors of MINK, SOLID AND SILVERS. Yes these are sometimes a seprate line now days but MANY Raggamuffin lines still exsist with Ragdoll AND breeders are breeding these old lines... people will say these are half breeds the "minks and solids" But I have spoke to over 30 breeders and they all say the same thing there are pedigree ragdolls that are mink in color and solid in color they go back since the 1970s and today they are being bred more into the tradional color ragdoll pedigrees. There is no difference in traits and looks and so on I own 2 minks and a traditional color and there is no difference at all in the quality or traits.

    4 Votes
  • Ke
    Kellyr6 Sep 26, 2009

    My two minks are TICA regsiterd as RAGDOLLS aparentlly this is alowed. I have a 3 generation pedigree and I see no outcrosses. NOW maybe theres a few in the 4th or 5th generation that may say raggamuffin but I would have to obtain a 5th generation pedigree to find out and even if there was I would think this is nothing to be disapoitend about when they both breeds oringinated from each other.

    How can they be half bred when it says mink Ragdoll? whether or not they were crossed to get this color many breeders are creating flame and lynx ragdolls which are outcrossed because there were NO flames No torties and no lynx ragdolls until now. There was only seal, blue, rare lilacs and rare chocolates now days 70% of lilac and chocolate ragdolls are crossed to balenise persian and himaylayin so I guess this is better ?? NO I think not

    5 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Sep 28, 2009

    Minks, Sepias and Solids can ONLY be registered in TICA.These color Variants of the Ragdoll Breed are not an acceptable color for the Ragdoll Breed nor are they being bred to any of the existing Ragdoll Breed Standards.Since they are Breed Variants they cannot be transferred or registered in other recognized Cat Associations.

    Ann Baker's cats and the International Ragdoll Cat Association's Breeds WERE NOT acceptable Breeds within the Cat Fancy.30 people can say anything and believe all they want about their pedigrees.What mattered was if the Cat Fancy as a whole believe them and the answer was a resounding NO! they didn't. .Ann's Pedigrees were never accepted nor were they ever made transferable into the Cat Fancy. This INCLUDED TICA.Please follow the link . I feel that if Breeders seriously want Solid, Mink or Sepia colors accepted into the Ragdoll Breed it would be best to admit that outcrossese to other accepted Breeds occured since they Ragdoll is a Colorpointed Breed.The Cat Fancy didn't give a hoot what Ann and the IRCA did privately.

    http://www.messybeast.com/asheras.htm

    0 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Sep 28, 2009

    How can they be half bred when it says mink Ragdoll?

    Same reason you can Breed Ragdolls to American Curls or any other Breed in TICA and still get a TICA registration slip that says "Ragdoll". Try that in CFA or any other Cat Association and they would tell you to get lost. TICA likes to "register cats" and make money just like the Mink "Ragdoll" Breeders do! LOL. Instead of these Breeders just
    breeding them to make money due to their rarity (LOL) start taking them to TICA Cat Shows and promote their vertues to the TICA Judges. You want them accepted then do the same work I did when I promoted the RagaMuffin Breed.Spend the money you're making of these "rare" cats instead of pocketing it! Mink RagaMuffins are not "RARE" and Mink Ragdoll Breeders really need to smarten up about that one! You'll always have me pointing out to look for the more common and less exspensive Muffins in those RARE Mink Ragdoll Pedigrees!

    Muffins were derived from multiple IRCA Breeds which were different gene pools from the already recognized non-IRCA Ragdolls. The most I can say is that they shared
    is the fact that their ancestors once lived at 156 Iowa Ave, Riverside, California.They shared an address and very little genetic heritage.

    -1 Votes
  • Ki
    Kim James Oct 01, 2009

    Ragdoll genetics are a colorful work of fictionalized history I think. I have seen ragdolls turn toward the minks and solids when the prices on traditional ragdolls went down. All of a sudden these cats starting coming out of the woodwork and their genetics is interesting and entertaining. Take for instance some ragdolls also listed as a ragamuffin http://www.catpedigrees.com/cgi-bin/breeding24.pl?op=breeding&index=976&gens=5&db=Ragtime.dbw
    Here you can see Tuftytoes Maybe and a Mayde, a deliberate attempt to confuse by changing one letter of the name a technique that people trying to defraud a company uses by trying to confuse the computer by mispelling their name.
    On this pedigree you can also see Sneaker listed as both breeds. And if that weren't interesting enough, take a look at poor St. Patrick, apparently someone was very creative with that cat and I think the poor thing must have needed therapy. He was a she sometimes, sometimes a he and sometimes It bred Its self and one result was Little Miss Annie. Wow, amazing. Theres more to this fairy tale. They bred St. Patrick the black and white ragdoll to a white ragdoll and came up with a red smoke, Clark's George, St. Patrick was a male this time. This is just one example where the m SP is line bred to himself the F SP, the pedigree lies out so colorfully don't you think http://www.catpedigrees.com/cgi-bin/geneal24.pl?op=tree&index=1266&gens=5&db=Ragtime.dbw
    The reds, including torties, reds etc can trace their ancestors back to some red persians, one who had a lot of input in the breed was Villaroyal Sweet Sunshine a red persian himilayan. You can look these names up on catpedigrees or pawpeds. It makes for some interesting reading. Try nailing anyone down on this miracles and they fluff it off as early pedigrees, you can't believe them. And that is what the breed is based on.
    If you want a mink rag cat, go with the ragamuffins. I've seen some gorgeous sable and white and natural mink and you won't have to swallow all these fractured fairytales that pass as ragdoll history. Just my opinion.

    -3 Votes
  • Ki
    Kim James Oct 02, 2009

    I have another thought for those of you who are about to spend ridiculous amounts of money on a pet ragdoll, [besides don't that is]. Its time as consumers to start making a few demands of your own. Don't let yourself be bullied by the breeders, as some ragdoll breeders do. they want YOU to fill out an adoption form, , they want YOU to sign an agreement that they have laid out and which frankly is only for the protection of the breeder. Remember you are the buyer, you should be in control of the situation. Make that breeder show you proof that the kittens a mink, they will claim that a responsible breeder have their stock dna's, have them do the same on the kitten. DNA only costs $40 and for the incredible amount they want you to fork over for kitten its not a lot to ask. The dna will show whether that cat is a mink or not, and they can have it run with samples from both parents to show that those cats are really what they claim that they really are pkd and hcm clear, that they have all the the outrageous claims they are making. Don't let the breeder of these mink ragdolls rule the game, you as a buyer paying a huge amount of money have rights too, use them. The breeder can claim that the dna on the parents show this or that and you don't really know that they ever really had dna done. You are taking their word on it and that is foolish. Get it in writing. After all they want you to believe a lot including ridiculous claims, when you could just buy a beautiful ragamuffin, which can put exceed the mink ragdolls looks, in my opinion. Here you can see a sable and white raggamuffin. Think about it. Excert some buying power don't just roll over and give them the money without you getting assurances and guarantees that benefit YOU.
    Check these ragamuffin kittens out, you can see that minks are not RARE as these ragdoll breeders are leading you to believe. Why, follow the money folks.
    http://www.kaerikrags.com/pastlitters.htm

    -4 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Oct 03, 2009

    In my opinion the RagaMuffin Pedigrees shown on www.catpedigrees.com are not accurate since there are many mistakes on cats that I personally Bred and Owned.This certainly happens when one Breeder submited imformation from their "personal database" instead of using certified documents. As far as the Tuffytoe cats are concerned? They are listed as "IRCA Ragdolls" Please remember that they were never recognized as true Ragdolls by any of the Cat Assocaitions. The IRCA cats are the very foundation of the RagaMuffin Breed.


    I feel that most of the Mink that are shown on "Mink Ragdoll" Websites ARE NOT true minks, so yes genetic DNA testing should be demanded.Once again all these Breeders are claiming full traceability to Ragdolls. This is not true. They are traceable to RagaMuffins

    -7 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Oct 03, 2009

    I believe some are these Mink Ragdoll Breeders are stupidly trying to say that their lines can be traced back genetically to Buckwheat! LOL. This is impossible! The most the DNA tests will prove is if that their cats are genetically carrying one copy of the Sepia Gene in case of Minks.2 copies if the the cat is a Sepia or Sable. The Mink and Sepia Ragdoll pedigrees all trace back to the RagaMuffin Breed.http://www.eiserblew.co.uk/ragamuffin.htm

    -3 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Oct 03, 2009

    Here is a prime example of a Mink Ragdoll Breeder still posting outdated TICA Ragdoll Pedigrees.In the pedigree posted by www.raggglerock.com Phurry is still shown as an SBT purebred MINK RAGDOLL.Ragggleroack leads people to believe Mink Ragdolls are "PureBred" http://www.ragglerock.com/our_cats/kings/images/Minki.pdf

    Please follow this link to see that Phurry's pedigree and status has been changed and amended.She may have been the first SBT registered MINK RAGDOLL in TICA history but she was also the first MINK Ragdoll to have that status revoked because of pedigree falsification.

    -4 Votes
  • Ca
    Cat expert Oct 04, 2009

    Other breeders post this on their websites as well. Use caution buyers!!

    -4 Votes
  • Zz
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzz Nov 01, 2009

    curt ... dude, get a life, man. you have posted like 4, 000 words on this ridiculous topic!

    2 Votes
  • Re
    rediculouswordsisu Nov 05, 2009

    Curt,
    I think you're just a [censored] that didn't want a "woman" telling you how to run your cattery and cats. So you took your cats, got bent, and changed the name to the Ragamuffin. Its VERY obvious that without the ragdoll breed your ragamuffins would NEVER exist.

    4 Votes
  • Bi
    Billie Nov 14, 2009

    Zzzzzzzzzzzz & rediculouswordsisu, both of you: thanks for your comments!!

    1 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Nov 16, 2009

    http://www.eiserblew.co.uk/ragamuffin.htm

    -2 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Nov 16, 2009

    http://www.dallasrags.com/about-us.htm

    Hello Billie! LOL

    -2 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Nov 17, 2009

    http://www.dallasrags.com/guest-book.htm

    -2 Votes
  • Ra
    Ragglerock Jan 08, 2010

    To Curt and anyone reading... we would like to post a short remark...(Ragglerock Cattery in Canada) ...

    First DO NOT be FOOLED ... Curt Gehm DID start as an IRCA ragdoll breeder, the same cats registered as IRCA ragdolls became Ragamuffins overnight in TICA... how convenient...

    Also I really don't care that there is an outcross, many breeds including the ragdoll were outcrossed to such breeds as the Birman, Himalayan, Persian etc, This was to establish better colors and a greater bloodline. I think most folks would like to see the diversity in order to see healthier cats!

    However what kills me... is especially Curt Gehm and many of his Ragamuffin followers don't admit that our Ragdolls were and still are Registered as TICA Purebred SBT Ragdolls in the mink and solid variety... Unfortunately in the pedigree you will see cats owned by Curt and others as "overnight" having changed status from Ragdoll to ragamuffin...how convenient for them...Personally don't care...want to play that game, go ahead, register your cats as Sphynx, or Muchkins...whatever you feel like.

    Well the fact is that Ann Baker at one time had well over 250 cats which were bred together to make these wonderful breeds...both the Ragdoll and the Ragamuffin stemmed from this...it is only in the recent breeders choice of how to continue the breeding that we have a division in the classification...What started as one breed has become two very distinct breeds...

    A ragdoll is NOT a ragamuffin...not in todays standard...and not by today's breeding options...OUR MINKS are PUREBRED ... SBT registered...TICA certitifed ... RAGDOLLLS ...sorry to disappoint our friends like Curt...ours are Ragdolls...your minks are ragamuffins...

    Thanks to all who want to know more...Please contact on personal email ...Irene of Ragglerock in Canada

    1 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jan 11, 2010

    Dear Irene,

    "Curt Gehm DID start as an IRCA ragdoll breeder, the same cats registered as IRCA ragdolls became Ragamuffins overnight in TICA... how convenient..."

    Yes I did start as an IRCA Breeder unfortunately the Cat Fancy as a whole did not and would not recognise any of the IRCA cats as a particular Breed.

    "IRCA ragdolls became Ragamuffins overnight in TICA... how convenient..."

    IRCA Cats were registered as "Experimental" Breed by TICA in 1994. TICA recognized the RagaMuffin "Breed Name" for registration in 2003 the same year CFA recognized the Breed Name.

    "Curt Gehm and many of his Ragamuffin followers don't admit that our Ragdolls were and still are Registered as TICA Purebred SBT Ragdolls in the mink and solid variety."


    They are registered in TICA but you forget to mention that the Ragdoll Breed Committee, the Majority of all Ragdoll Breeders (Worldwide) and the Ragdoll Breed Standard still consider them unaccepted and UNACCEPTABLE Variants of the Ragdoll Breed.


    "Unfortunately in the pedigree you will see cats owned by Curt and others as "overnight" having changed status from Ragdoll to ragamuffin...how convenient for them"


    My cats were already registered in ACFA and TICA. Their Status from RagaMuffin to Ragdoll was changed overnight by David Chambers when he re-registered my cats in UCF as Ragdolls and transferred those records into TICA. He didn't own my cats or breed them now did he Irene? You bought your cats from Marla and Billie Knapp knowing all this now didn't you?


    Ragdolls are a Colorpointed Breed of Cats and Irene of Ragglerock Breeds and promotes Unaccepted Variants of the Ragdoll Breed.To learn more about Mink Variant Ragdolls please follow the link below;

    http://www.eiserblew.co.uk/ragamuffin.htm

    1 Votes
  • Ks
    KS1 Jan 15, 2010

    I am reading the site as a potential purchaser of a lovely pet for our home. I think ragdolls and raggaMuffins are darling and minks are beautiful! I like the ragdolls for their sweet dispostion and it seems ragamuffins are similar. I am more interested in recommendations on good breeders that will live up to what is on the various websites out there! Any help on this out there? For instance Elegant ragdolls has a bad reputation...any others to stay away from...comments appreciated...

    0 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jan 15, 2010

    Good sites for reputable Breeder recommendations would be:

    For Ragdolls,

    http://www.ragdollcentral.com/forum/index.php


    For RagaMuffins,

    http://ragamuffinsragamuffinsragamuffins.yuku.com/

    1 Votes
  • Ro
    Rovena Parmley Mar 15, 2010

    This is in reference to Tuftytoes Mayde and Tuftytoes Sneakers. First of all Tuftytoes cattery is my cattery and the Ragdolls I own were cats bought from Ann Baker and a couple of IRCA breeders of the 1970's to early 1980's. I owned the parent cats, to Mayde. I also owned the parent cats to Sneakers. There is no such cat as Tuftytoes Maybe. Mayde was never sold to anyone. The cat lived her whole life here at my home. I have the records of who bought cats from me. Tuftytoes Sneakers was a black and white MALE that was sold as a pet. There should be no offspring of his listed anywhere. All my cats were foundation registered, whether they were of the pointed or solid colors, in TICA since the 1980's according to their rules and were also evaluated by judges of TICA before registration. Whomever listed Tuftytoes Mayde or Sneakers as Ragamuffins had to be hanging papers for neither cat was ever registered or sold as a Ragamuffin. The Ragamuffin breed didn't get it's name until the 1990's and both these cats were born in the 1980's well before the Ragamuffin breed.

    Rovena Parmley

    3 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Mar 16, 2010

    Hello Rovena,

    Tuftytoes Mayde is not listed as a RagaMuffin and no paperwork was ever "hung" on her or any of your Cats. She has her full TICA foundation registration # 02T060584-027 as do the rest of your cats. Please remember that when you were an IRCA Breeder that Ann had your Breeding Records which she then transferred to us.Mayde was bred from Jabber Jaws and Chanissa. You did sell cats to other Breeders cats that did breed your cats to RagaMuffins so Jabber Jaws and Chanissa will be in some RagaMuffin pedigrees. They are listed as "Ragdolls", either IRCA registered or TICA registered.


    Curt

    0 Votes
  • Ra
    Raggedyro Oct 13, 2019
    This comment was posted by
    a verified customer
    Verified customer

    @Curt Gehm There is a Tuftytoes Maybe listed there as a Ragamuffin. Tuftytoes Mayde and Tuftytoes Maybe are the same cat. I still have the sales agreements from that litter and nowhere do I have a female from JJ and Chanissa born on that day sold to anyone! So, therefore, Mayde is listed under the name Maybe as a Ragamuffin.

    0 Votes
  • Ho
    Hope Julie Mar 21, 2010

    Does anyone know of Elegant rags/Lovely rags? Please let me know

    0 Votes
  • Ho
    Hope Julie Mar 21, 2010

    Well I got one cat from Elegant Rags, when I first picked him up he sneezed all the way home and he didn't get any better, brought him to the vet, and then again to vet for the same problem. Now he's peeing everywhere but the litterbox, brought him to the vet and he has a urinary tract infection with crystals, so he got a shot and now I have to give him special food forever.

    0 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Apr 24, 2010

    Irene still has not posted accurate TICA generated Pedigrees on her Website for her "Mink Ragdolls" indicating these Minks were outcrossed from RagaMuffins.She still shows "Phurry" as an SBT Ragdoll which is false Information!

    0 Votes
  • Ra
    Ragglerock Jun 09, 2010

    Irene will continue to post Certified Pedigrees as provided to her by TICA which were accurate at the time of printing, this is also how TICA states it ;-)

    So I have NO intention on changing what was accurate, current pedigrees may have ragdolls changed to ragamuffins BUT this does NOT affect me or MY CATS in any way !!

    Since all these wonderful cats stemmed from the same cattery in the beginning and all their decents since are crossed to "whatever" ... I see no need. IRENE

    2 Votes
  • Ra
    Ragglerock Jun 09, 2010

    Ragglerock cattery breeds for VERY LOVING, DOCILE, HEALTHY, ragdoll cats with the temperament they were intended to have.

    We DO NOT put color or type of ragdoll at the top of our priority list when it comes to loving kittens, with sweet hearts, that own you from the moment you pick it up or have it delivered.

    Ragdolls did not ask for a tainted and yet interesting past history. But now that they have it hey why not... why not talk about the skunk gene or the UFO gene ...

    My cats are all my loving pets first, I do not overbreed my sweethearts and I retire early so they have a long life as a forever pet. Ragglerock does however tend to specialize AND keep alive the rarer ragdolls.

    These include chocolate, lilac, minks and solids and blue-eyed whites both as pets and for breeding.

    Be sure to visit our website at http://www.ragglerock.com and hop on over to the KITTEN page to see what we may have available for you!!

    Cheers IRENE

    Comments
    Comments

    1 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 09, 2010

    No Irene.Nothing you will contiue to do will personally affect you or YOUR cats but you are destroying and tainting the integrity and the reputation of the entire Ragdoll Breed in your process.This includes destroying the years of hard work and dedication ever other Ragdoll Breeder put into the Breed before you came along. The Ragdoll has always been a blue-Eyed and Pointed Breed according to the Breed Originator and Founder Ann Baker.Your current Ragdoll Variants do not stem from the original Ragdoll lines.They are outcrosses from other Breeds. You are also currently not breeding your cats within any accepted or written Ragdoll Breed Standard so it's your choice to breed Variants and then sell them as Rare.What makes them Rare? is the fact that every other reputable and ethical Ragdoll Breeder chooses to breed within the Breed Standards to improve on the cats they produce for the continuation of the Breed.It is fully your choice to Breed outside those accepted Standards breeding away from it.You also knowingly purchased Mink Kittens from my personally bred and registered RagaMuffin lines that had TICA pedigrees "Hung" on them as Ragdolls.Those cats have never been traceable nor will they ever be traceable to the Foundation Cats of the Ragdoll Breed.You are completely misleading everyone with your far fetched claims that they do. Like you said, you Breed Variants and Pets, all for the high prices and profit which goes right into your pocketbook.

    Purrs,
    Curt

    -1 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 09, 2010

    Irene, Simply loved your little article on your Website about the finer points of Breeding Variants ;) Buisiness must be getting tough for you with all the newer competition out there.

    0 Votes
  • Ra
    Ragglerock Jun 09, 2010

    Wow Curt ... you really are the biggest hypocrite EVER ;-)

    As so many long time ragdoll breeders have stated, you just aren't worth wasted our breath on ... but here it goes anyway since today I have nothing better to do ...

    I will just post the flyer for all to see ... perhaps in future I'll continue to post documents just so that others can make up their own minds...

    They can read what you say on one side and then what you have said in the past ... somehow things don't seem to be agreeing ;-)

    Cheers IRENE

    Comments

    0 Votes
  • Ra
    Ragglerock Jun 09, 2010

    Are you kiddig Curt ...?? Business is better than EVER ;-)

    However not everyone is familiar with genetics in general and as breeders we should be aware of all the ins and outs and how they will affect the kittens we breed.

    How's business doing for your Raggies??

    Still showing them as much as ever before ;-)??

    With all your postings not sure how you find the time to raise any kittens at all ... IRENE

    My best to your success in 2010 ... its almost been another year come to an end, we all survived another one.

    1 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 09, 2010

    Dear Irene,


    The document you have posted was produced by the RagaMuffin Associated Group NOT me ;) We, as former IRCA Breeders had no choice but to believe whatever Ann Baker claimed was fact.Upon recieving Ann's records her facts became myths. You are not a long time Breeder Irene nor an ethical one using falsified pedigrees for your claims. The Dayton's had Colorpointed Ragdolls because that is all Ann had or produced or registered.As most people know I retired from actively breeding RagaMuffins in 2006. Liebling Cats were introduced into the Foundation RagaMuffin genepool that were recently registered in the GCCF. How are your Solid and Mink Variants doing in the CCA, still showing your Variants or did you get run out of the Show Halls?

    -1 Votes
  • Ra
    Ragglerock Jun 09, 2010

    I NEVER get "run out of anything" as a matter of fact the CCA public and judges alike quite enjoyed the few ragdolls that I did show of the non-point variety. So I hear they are doing great in the show halls of TICA around the globe!! Recently even accepted in New Zealand, go ragdolls !!

    No wonder you have time on your hands ... Now I do understand ... No I am not a long time breeder as you put it (not dating back to 1960's), however many of my ragdoll breeder friends certainly are ... Gemma, Rovena they too are very tired to argue your points over and over again. Let's not, its old ;-)

    These breeders were there ... a time of myth, a time of lies, a time of development, a time where at least two breeds (ragdolls and ragamuffins) came to be ...

    As for falsified pedigrees, that's just something I CAN'T do ... I hear that some folks though do have some hands on experience with that and that's just part of the ongoing history now isn't it? ?All I have is TICA CERTIFIED PEDIGREES !!

    We all know, whether we like it or not that from at least "TODAY" on the ragdoll and ragamuffin breeds will exist in the various colors and patterns... you can argue the past, you can argue the breeds, you can argue the ancestry, argue whatever you will ... you can argue that everything about each breed is a complete and utter lie !!!

    There is ONLY ONE FACT that remains, TICA registered purebred Ragdolls in solid, in smoke, in silver, in mink ... SBT STATUS ... they do EXIST, they will continue to exist!! And if you are interested you know where to find them, at Ragglerock!

    I know you don't like to hear that, Curt, but its the truth!

    Attachement: Ragglerock Cindy Lou Too ... a seal tortie MINK mitted SBT status TICA and CCA registered RAGDOLL

    Isn't she a beauty!! One of my largest girls weighing in at 15+ lbs!!

    Comments

    1 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 10, 2010

    Irene; Variant Cat.Please post TICA Certified pedigrees for your cats instead of those you generated by The Breeder’s Standard™ from Man’s Best Friend Software [protected]. LOL.

    Comments

    1 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 10, 2010

    I'm sorry I missed the part about Gemma. You're just too funny! Gemma bought her Variants directly from David Chambers of Ragnarock.It was he who falisified the records of my cats. You bought yours from Andrea Teymori of ADORABLE RAGDOLLS/ MINKCATS.COM who got them from Marla Knapp of DallasRags when she went belly-up, those Catteries are bye-bye while another is severely limited in their "Production" capabilities. I'm not sure about the Netherlands and don't really care ;) How many Ragdoll Breeders are in New Zealand? I've also been checking the TICA Standing Show Reports and don't see any listings for Ragdolls? Maybe you can tell me where I can view those? The best news is a RagaMuffin ( CAFE MOCHA VALENCIA) with a total of 10422 is the 7th best HHP in TICA.;) <object style="height: 344px; width: 425px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iw8AWsupeXQ"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iw8AWsupeXQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></object>

    2 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 10, 2010

    http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/the-ragamuffin-cat-and-the-princess.html

    Comments

    0 Votes
  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 10, 2010

    The Traditional Ragdoll Cat Society have been made aware of a number of Ragdolls which have been registered both in the UK and overseas who have 'Mink Ragdolls' in their pedigree. This information we are now passing on in good faith.

    The 'Mink' colouration was introduced into these cats by crossing to RagaMuffins, which are a distinctly different breed of cat, also developed by Ann Baker. There are two RagaMuffins in particular who appear incorrectly on Ragdoll pedigrees - these are Liebling Mocha Madness (often noted on pedigrees as just 'Mocha Madness') and Reggie of Rainbow Rags (often noted on pedigrees as just 'Reggie').

    "The RagaMuffin Breed was Founded on the IRCA cats when Ann began using Domestics and Persians to diversify her IRCA Ragdoll gene pool. These cats include Solid Color Cats and Mink colors. These are not entirely line traceable back to the original group of cats and their breeders who left Ann Baker and formed the Ragdoll Breed. These Breeders only had Colorpointed cats within their breeding programs. Colorpoint to Colorpoint breedings will only produce other colorpoints. Solids and Minks are therefore genetically impossible."
    Curt Gehm, Liebling RagaMuffins

    Georgann Chambers of Ragnarok Cattery had verified that there have been some errors with the registration of cats under another registry, the UCF. Due to these errors, RagaMuffins appeared as Ragdolls, and were subsequently transferred into TICA as full Ragdolls. The Certified Pedigrees were showing RagaMuffins as being Ragdolls, and this enabled these outcrosses to be transferred over to the GCCF using TICA certified pedigrees.

    The TICA records have now been amended to show the incorrectly registered cats on the pedigree as RagaMuffins. As advised by Curt Gehm, there are RagaMuffins in every single Mink Ragdoll pedigree, and there are also many colourpointed siblings which have also been sold as breeding cats over the years, so it is very important that breeders are aware of this problem.

    Below is a copy of an old, incorrect TICA pedigree, and below that a corrected copy. To fully understand the pedigree, you will also need to understand the TICA registration numbers, which I have also explained below:

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  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 10, 2010

    Corrected:

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  • Cu
    Curt Gehm Jun 10, 2010

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