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Greenway Home Improvements Ltd (member of the Conservatory Outlet) deceived my family and left us with a non-energy efficient conservatory and we fear regarding the porch foundations.
My parents have spent over £20, 000 to employ, Greenway Home Improvements Ltd to construct a conservatory & porch. Only to discover the conservatory is NOT energy efficient, doubts regarding the roofing system (supplied by Ultrafame) being structurally safe following an incident where the conservatory double glazed glass roof 10’x2’6” panel fell out of the roof frame, bowing down into the conservatory and allowing water to enter.
Greenway’s Fitters, Steve & John neglected to full fill the contract (agreed by Tom Tucker, Greenway Salesperson), by not carrying out the necessary building work whilst constructing my parent’s bricked porch. This Andrew Green – MD of Greenway Home Improvements Ltd will not address, neither will Matthew Glover & Greg Kane of Conservatory Outlet.
The following is a brief summary of the complaint (a brief summary was sent to Greenway, email dated 13 July 2011):-
1. A 10’ x 2’ 6”Double Glazed Roof Glass Panel come out of the roof frame and bowing down into the conservatory. This happened 16 weeks after completion.
2. Roof support trims, some supplied undersized and fitted by Steve, John, & Rob, some cut too small (near the roof valley) and fitted by Steve, John & Rob. Steve & John had no intention of replacing these trims, even though the trims were not fit for purpose, thus not making the conservatory energy efficient, allowing water and draughts in.
3. Steve, John & Rob had little respect for the my family property on many occasions, using home appliances without asking permission, breaking items around the garden and hiding them in shrubbery.
4. Rob the fitter for Greenway’s got aggressive with me, for cleaning the conservatory. Yet I used the method that was relayed to me by Ian Haines, the Greenway surveyor.
5. My family had to experience the backlash from Steve & John for the previously arranged, (with Tom Tucker & Ian Haines), internal door to be temporally boarded up while the front door was waiting to be replaced. (Security reasons) The discussion between Steve & John went as far as to call someone ‘twatters’.
6. My family made enquiries to Ian Haines regarding the investigation work allegedly carried out by Steve & John into the depth of the footing already present for the new porch brickwork. (Were these footings suitable?) There was no evidence to prove this was conducted by Steve & John. Yet these instructions are on the contract.
7. Steve & John signed off the conservatory and left a considerable hole between the house wall and the conservatory. Allowing water to enter the conservatory.
8. Steve, John & Rob left the backing on, the adhesive strips on the roof trim. Thus the glass was not secured completely.
9. Steve called the my family liars concerning a crack in the double glazed glass panel, from the side of the conservatory. This crack rendered the double glazed unit as non-energy efficient.
10. Steve & John became aggressive towards my family, when we enquired why the double glazed roof panel had fallen out of the roof frame.
11. Steve & John have lied to the company, Greenway in regards to the customers (my family), not leaving the fitter alone to carry out the job (CCTV recordings to substantiate that Steve & John are not being truthful). Furthermore, if my family were constantly bombarding the fitters with question, as the fitters claimed. How did Steve have the opportunity to once again smear silicon up on the middle of a pane of the self-cleaning glass on the conservatory?
12. The fitters Steve & John, not only made the customers feel uneasy by their aggression, on 28 February 2011 & 22 June 2011 (whilst in the my family’s home), but also when Steve called Andrew Green the MD of Greenway, a liar and stated he would tell him (Andrew) this to his face. This is not very customer friendly.
13. Steve & John have gone as far as to slander my family (Greenway Customers) to discredit their characters in order to deflect the issues/matters/complaints from themselves, the causers of the conflict.
The above is a proportionate account of how Steve, John & Rob fitters of Greenway Home Improvements Ltd have treated my family.
The response I received from The MD Mr Andrew Green, of Greenway Home Improvements Ltd was:-
“have decided that your e-mail counterproductive. In Response, I have skipped to the end…”
To clarify matters.
The installation was stated as being complete and fit for purpose on 24 February 2011(fitters Steve, John & Rob of Greenway)
Yet Greenway fitters (Steve & John) returned 28 February 2011 to carry out issues on the conservatory.
Greenway fitter (Rob) returned on 19 May 2011 to carry out further issues with the conservatory e.g. water entering through holes in roofing trims etc. Rob got very aggressive towards me when discussing how the water was entering the conservatory. Also, Rob prised the double glazed roofing panel up to remove the backing from adhesive seals, which had been left on during installation by Steve, John & Rob. The valley capping and guttering was misshaped following Rob’s manhandling of the roofing glass. It was also reported to Rob that the guttering surrounding the conservatory sloped away from the down-pipe, thus holding at least 20mm of water.
What I found strange was that, Rob at this point knew exactly where the holes were situation in the conservatory roof, prior to any member of my family indicating how the water was entering the conservatory. How? Unless the fitter (Steve, John & Rob) knew the state they had left the conservatory in.
Greenway – MD Mr Andrew Green visited, on 25 May 2011, my family home, following the aggressive behaviour of Rob, the damage left by Rob and the issues (structural, energy efficiency etc.) with the conservatory. Mr Andrew Green took away a considerable list of outstanding issues, which now appear to have disappeared. Stated as, Mr Green will not refer to the issues itemised on this lists, just keeps reiterating, “complete this one small item”.
During Mr Green’s visit of 25 May 2011, it was agreed by both parties (Mr Green & my family) that not to cause any further damage to the glass or surrounds, that additional trims would be added inside and outside to cover the substantial holes in the roofing trims. Mr Green also agreed that an additional down-pipe would be added to drain away the substantial water that was being held in the guttering. There were also problems with the valley capped that had been misshaped, flashing and the internal sills. All were itemised on Mr Green’s list to be rectified.
20 June 2011at approx. 8.30 pm I entered the conservatory and found water entering from the roof. On inspection it was discovered that one of the roof panels had fallen out of the roof support. Quickly furniture was moved, dust sheets were put down and my family had to prop up the glass in the roof(the double glazed glass panel which is approx. 10 foot x 2”6 had bowing out of the frame in the roof). An e-mail was sent to Mr Green marked as, emergency as my family feared the roof glass could collapse in.
21 June 2011 A member of my family telephoned Mr Green as there had been no response to the emergency e-mail. Mr Green was asked if he could came and look at the roof .Mr Green stated he was unavailable all day and would send Mr Haines (Greenway Surveyor), as he was the more of the structurally minded person, than Mr Green. Greenway confirmed that Mr Haines was to call when he returned from Gloucester. At approx. 3.10 pm on 21 June 2011 my family e-mailed Mr Green following Mr Haines non arrival.
At approx. 3.20 pm on 21 June 2011 Mr Haines arrive, at my family Home. Mr Ian Haines (Greenway surveyor) looked at the roof and informed my family to leave the prop holding the glass up in place for safety. My family discussed again the problems of the roof trims that were letting in draughts and water, etc. Mr Haines explained the trims are delivered pre-cut, except for the trims either side of the roof valley. My family know for a fact, the valley trims were:- one side undercut leaving a 1cm+ hole and the other wrongly fitted, at an angle, leaving another gap. When discussing the problems, each time Mr Haines response was, ‘see John & Steve when they call tomorrow’. Mr Haines also said he would phone the fitters at home that night. Additionally, Mr Haines did add that the supplier might have to become involved.
22 June 2011 at approx. 9.10am, John and Steve arrived; my family enquire the explanation of why the glass had come out of its frame, but both John & Steve were not forth coming with answers. My family did notice Steve didn’t reset the double glazed roofing panel, simply prised the glass panel across the roof frame with a screw driver. Questions were asked to the fitters, relevant to the job in hand. During the discussion with the fitters, it became apparent that all Mr Green had previously promised, was not going to happen according to Steve & John. Steve even went as far as to call Mr Green “A liar ………….”and” I’ll tell it to his face.” This put my family in a very awkward position. The fitters left at approx. 9.40am, stating that John was going to telephone Mr Green and request a follow up telephone call to my family. Following the fitters departure it was once again found that the fitters has smeared silicon on the centre of one of the self-cleaning panes of glass. This was a habit of Greenway Fitters while working on my family’s conservatory.
Anyone can clearly see, Greenway Home Improvements Ltd has had ample opportunities to rectify the list of issues with my conservatory and in fact each time has caused further damage.
Yet, Mr Andrew Green MD of Greenway Home Improvement Ltd, will not address the substantial complaint concerning the porch project, the poor workmanship, the attitude from Greenway Fitters, Steve, John, Rob and the conservatory project in its entirety (itemised on Mr Greens list taken on 25 May 2011). Yet Mr Green has acknowledged photographs of the poor workmanship of his fitter that were forwarded to Ultraframe, the suppliers of the roofing system.
Additionally, the paperwork from Greenway for my project (conservatory) shows the roof glass to be Conservaglass subtle blue, yet the roof glass which was installed in my conservatory is in fact clear?
Here is a photograph of the workmanship of three of Greenway's fitters.
Further examples of the workmanship of three of Greenway's fitters.
This is how the fitters left the conservatory as finished.
On 24 November 2011, Mr Green stated, “I am pleased to note that you awarded our workas 9 out of 10 and asked if you would recommend us you said that you would.”
Mr Green appears to have forgotten there were TWO separate installation teams working at my home.
Steve, John & Rob worked on the conservatory. Later Steve & John constructed the brickwork for the porch, against what was pre-arranged with the builder that works with Greenway.
It was the second team of fitters that constructed the front door and surrounding window frames, which obtained the 9 out of 10 in the satisfaction report completed by my family and this second team of fitters would be recommended. As these gentlemen were polite, friendly and showed respect for my family’s home.
Unlike the fitters John, Steve & Rob who:-
1. Used home appliances without asking permission
2. Broke items around the garden and hide them in shrubbery
3. Called ‘someone’, “Twatters”, for wanting an internal door to be temporally boarded up for security reasons
Etc.
Mr Green fails to mention, that we were issued with TWO, “INSTALLATION COMPLETION SHEET”. This sheet is what Mr Green refers to as, “satisfaction report”.
My family only completed ONE sheet. The sheet referring to John & Steve was NOT completed out of respect for Mr Green and his company. As at the time Mr Green WAS showing my family respect, until the “10’ x 2’ 6”Double Glazed Roof Glass Panel come out of the roof frame and bowing down into the conservatory”.
It was only at that time of the roof glass incident that I begin to thoroughly inspect the paperwork, workmanship etc. regarding Greenway and the projects conducted within my family home.
It has been brought to my attention by the BBA that the roofing system supplied by Ultraframe to Greenway Home Improvements Ltd, for my conservatory incorporated faults due to, (BBA statement), “ a clear installation/workmanship related problem”. (The installer being Greenway fitters, Steve, John & Rob).
Through my own investigations I have found no proof, that Greenway has any qualifications in relationship to fitting conservatories and the BBA have confirmed that Greenway should not have been displaying the BBA logo, as the company Greenway are not BBA regulated.
I did enquire through the Conservatory Outlet Ltd (which Greenway is a member of) the accreditations of the Greenway Fitters. Conservatory Outlet’s (Mr G Kane) response was that I have no right to know their accreditations.
I refer back to my posting dated 2 December 2011, where the BBA are quoted as saying, “a clear installation/workmanship related problem”. (The installer being Greenway fitters, Steve, John & Rob).
Yet, Mr Green posted on ‘foulbusiness.co.uk’, dated 2 December 2011, “my fitters have been fitting conservatories for twenty years while the insudtry was in it's infancy so I would like to think they are experienced enough to install and subject to hundreds of very satisfied customers I've never had issue with them on any other installation.”
So, I reiterate, from my brother’s email sent to Mr Green dated 22 June 2011, “please explain what Steve, John & Rob had against our family from day one?” As Mr Green claims that the fitters have installed hundreds of conservatories and never had issues with any other installation, but my family’s conservatory is experiencing numerous installation problems from day one following completion and are continuing to happen. The most recent issue being that one of the double doors does not close/seal properly at the bottom of the door. This is allowing a considerable amount of draught to enter the conservatory. There appears to be a considerable amount of problems with my family’s conservatory considering Mr Greens claims his, “installers………………are totally qualified and craft trained in the work they are to undertake”
Therefore, I ask, why is my family’s conservatory experiencing so many issues/problems?
Mr Green wrote on 30 November 2011 on the ‘canyoutrustthem’ website, that he can't understand my level of aggression towards his company. I think Mr Green will find that it is not aggression his company is in receipt of, it is a customer attempting to obtain their rights for a product that has been paid for in full, to be installed to a standard Mr Green’s company claims a customer will receive.
What Mr Green fails to understand is that the whole series of events that has transpired since the conservatory glass roof falling out of the roofing frame, has been caused by the aggression of his fitters (reference to fitter Steve & John visit on 22 June 2011). This was not the only time the same fitters Steve & John showed their aggression on my family’s premises. This happened on 28 February 2011, during a discussion between Steve, John & Ian. Where voices were raised for the whole neighbourhood to see and hear. THIS TIME MY FAMILY WERE NOT THE RECEIVERS OF THE AGGRESSION BUT ANOTHER MEMBER OF GREENWAY STAFF WAS. (Recorded on CCTV as it occurred on my family’s premises)
I can’t comprehend how Mr Green has place the onus upon the customer, when his own fitters (Steve, John & Rob) are tarnishing Greenway with their aggression, bad workmanship whilst upon my family’s premises.
Therefore, what reassurance does my family have that these occurrences would not be repeated and my family would not receive repercussions?
Following contact with Trading Standards, I have been advised that I am within my rights to review Greenway.
For over a year I have experienced problems with Greenway/ Mr Andrew Green & Mrs Lucianne Green, relating to a conservatory & porch the company was employed to construct. Both projects have been paid for in full.
Greenways have deceived my family out of money, etc.
The company fitted the wrong specification of roofing glazing, clear glazing not blue glazing.
The company have left a considerable amount of holes in the structure of my conservatory. This allows draughts in and artificial heat out.
The company has refused to reinforce the porch foundations, as per contract. Yet, Greenway took the money to conduct the foundation work.
I have allowed Greenway (Mr Andrew Green, Greenway fitters, an employee of Glass Systems [one of the Greenway’s suppliers]) on numerous occasions, back into my home to rectify the problems. Only to be lied to, again and again.
Mrs Lucianne Green has attempted to charge for work and products that had either been paid for or should have been covered by the company’s guarantee.
Mr Green, the Managing Director of Greenway has stipulated I must not be in my own home; also my family's CCTV is to be turned off, whilst Greenway fitters are present. This has been recently confirmed to me in writing by the Glass & Glazing Federation (GGF).
The Advertising Standards Authority has been involved on two separate occasions regarding Greenway false advertising. Greenway was instructed to amend their advertisement, not to mislead the consumer.
In my opinion, the Managing Director, Mr Andrew Green does not want to resolve matters. As in August 2011, the Double Glazing Conservatory Ombudsman Scheme (DGCOS) offered free mediation service to both parties (an offer only open usually to members of the DGCOS scheme). This generous offer made by the DGCOS (Mr Richard Christie, CEO) was instantly declined by Mr Green.
Greenway is constantly putting barriers up to prevent the work taking place at my home.
This is a copy of the letter sent to Miss Williams in relation to the above lady by Mr Nick Ross. I have asked his permission to use this, this information was sent to Miss Williams in March of this year. :
Dear Wendy
I have now spoken at length to Ultraframe and I gather they know you – indeed as soon as I made the inquiry your name was mentioned. I am told your case is featured on several blogs in the industry and I gather the general consensus, even among Ultraframe’s staff, is that Greenway is a reputable company and that Mr Green had no intention to mislead you. Perhaps you already know this, but it is sobering that even Ultraframe seem unlikely to support your contention that you have been misled.
Given what I now realise is the considerable research you must have done on this, you will know that Conservaglass panels consist of 4mm of Pilkington Activ sealed to 4mm of Pilkington Low-E glass with a 16mm argon-filled gap. There is nothing unique about this, the panels are made up by the same factory used by other installation companies, and the product is readily available from other suppliers. (Indeed I have this on my own conservatory.) It is rather like Neurofen versus generic ibuprofen where the products are pharmaceutically identical other than the packaging. Some people are prepared to pay a premium for the branded version, except in the case of the Pilkington glass there is little or no difference in price.
The question is whether you paid for the branded version. Obviously it all depends on what your contract specifies. If it says Conservaglass then you have a right to ask for the branded product. If it does not then you should have queried it and specified precisely what you were expecting. For example, did you specify that you wanted the branded Ultraframe units, and did you make it clear that you expected argon filling?
If so, and if this is in writing, then you have a very strong case.
However, if you did not specify the Ultraframe branding then Greenway are right to supply the generic rather than branded version, and if you now want to improve the contract specification to match Conservaglass performance then you will need to persuade Mr Green to supply argon gas-filled units, and perhaps use Pilkington Low-E glass instead of K glass, for which he may reasonably charge you extra.
Even without these changes the consensus is that you are getting an excellent product.
I know you have many other issues with Greenway but ultimately everything revolve around the contract - which I haven’t seen. Of course the contract must be read in context, and if there are side letters promising “Conservaglass” then they may be just as valid as the contract itself. Also, if you specified branded “Conservaglass” as such in writing that too will help your case.
You make an analogy between buying a Hoover and an Electrolux, and it is not a bad illustration since the term Hoover, like Conservaglass, has become generic. Thus if I say I will Hoover the room it does not mean I must use a branded Hoover. Only if I specifically order a “Hoover” appliance should I specifically get a Hoover. In other words there may have been discussions about Conservaglass in good faith without it meaning Mr Green was trying to deceive you.
I wish I could do more but I think it is time for me to bow out of this. I feel I have done all I can do advise you independently. My only real role is to support DGCOS in making sure other customers and installers don’t get saddled with long-running spats like the one you have found yourself embroiled in; and the more we can get the DGCOS scheme adopted widely the less common these long-running feuds will be.
At any rate I do sincerely wish you good luck in resolving this to your, and your family’s satisfaction. The sooner you can put this behind you the better and I do urge you to accept Mr Green’s proposals as they stand, or pay extra for any enhancements you would like.
I have copied this in to Mr Green for his information and also to Ultraframe for reference.
With good wishes.
Nick
Nick Ross, the endorser of the Double Glazing Conservatory Ombudsman Scheme, DGCOS.
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Nick Ross was initially contacted by me back in 2011, following Greenway falsely claiming Greenway were member of the DGCOS.
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As Mr Green has published the email from Nick Ross, I am now able to elaborate further upon my experiences with Greenway.
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The following is what I sent to Nick Ross
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Dear Mr Ross
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Following what has transpired today (5 November 2012), my initial intentions were not to draw you back into this case. Yet, since Mr Green of Greenway has obtained your permission to publish your email relating to my case, I thought it would be appropriate to update you on how you, Mr Ross were too deceived by Mr Green/Greenway & Ultraframe.
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Within the email, that you gave Mr Green permission to publish, it states:- “There is nothing unique about this”(referring to Conservaglass).
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Well, within minutes in 2011 I found with a simple Google search that, Conservaglass has the following unique property.
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Conservaglass tm has the 'Unique feature _TRUE SELF CLEANING GLASS – not sprayed onto the sealed units after production, like some competitor products, which can wear away in time (Glass Systems, Greenway supplier of glass uses this spray method).
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Thus, you Mr Ross have been deceived by Greenway & Ultraframe, into attempting to force me into accepting a brand lookalike product.
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By you Mr Ross giving your permission to print the email relating to my case, you are publically endorsing Greenway to supply and fit a brand lookalike product. When the customer has a record that Greenway had quoted for Conservaglass, (a premium priced product, due to its unique property, of being a ‘ TRUE SELF Cleaning glass’ – a transparent coating bonded into the external surface of the glass – NOT SPRAYED ONTO the sealed unit after production like some competitive products.
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Not only have you, Mr Ross misled Trading Standards for Greenway, but now you are misleading the public too.
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Remember, Greenway has been reprimanded by a number of authorities/organisations for criminal offences, as you well know. BBA, BM TRADA, EST twice, by your own DGCOS & ASA three times (Advertising Standards Authority).
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Oh and I nearly forgot, Greenway are still stipulating that my CCTV security is switch off, or Greenway will NOT conduct any rectification work on my projects.
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Remember you, Mr Ross said this was a red herring concerning the CCTV being turned off, that was another lie by Greenway, as the stipulation made within Mr Green’s email still stands.
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Ultimately, you Mr Ross are endorsing the company Greenway that is attempting to blackmail my family.
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Regards
Miss Williams
At Greenway Home Improvements we pride ourselves on the quality of our product and services, which is why we ask our customers to complete a review.
I am pleased to note that you awarded our workas 9 out of 10 and asked if you would recommend us you said that you would.
With regards to the outstanding issue with trims on your conservatory, as related to you in previous correspondence, we would welcome the opportunity to correct your glazing support trims.
Please contact us at your earliest convenience to arrange for this work to be carried out.