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Our complaint, lack of disclosure by Susan Vernon concerning the potential for serious problems selling same sex littermates to our family. Our nightmare began in 2004. We paid $3000.00 for two dogs from Summit Whippets. No contract was offered; we trusted her as the sister-in-law to a friend. Reggie came first, about a month later Max arrived. The problems ranged from inability to housebreak (Reggie never did housebreak) to vicious fighting, out of control behavior, we could not leave Reggie in a room or car alone, he would destroy or pee on whatever.We are experienced dog owners have had other whippets; we know how to effectively train dogs and be pack leaders. I contacted Susan Vernon the first year with our problems and concerns her response, "send Reggie back, I sell him for whatever I can get for him". There was a total lack of concern for our family's emotional attachment and our financial loss. My family's philosophy is when you take on the responsibility of an animal, it is for life; take good with the bad; we continued to hope with maturity thing would improve, that did not happen. In February 2009 we were forced to find a new home (after a horrific fight) for Reggie. I contacted Susan Vernon to let her know our sorrow and devestation at being forced to find a new home for Reggie. Her is response was as follows and I quote, "I do not hold you at fault for wanting to place Reggie. I do wish you had contacted me first instead of Whippet Rescue. I always take my dogs back. Also I know you contacted Janis in the morning and didn't even give her until after her lunch break to get back to you. After five years of owning the dog I am surprised that you suddenly became so desperate to be rid of him". Hope things are better with Max.". I contacted Cindy Scott, president of American Whippet Club to file a complaint. The American Whippet Club has a impressive code of ethics, according to Ms. Scott the code is only for members (no doubt other breeders); they police each other. Ms Scott's only concern was we should not expect a refund after five years. We have never asked for a refund. Also in her opinion, "the dog was not a misfit". She added, "it is not unusual to sell littermates to one home". Note, she does not distinguish between same sex littermates or opposite sex littermates." True, sometimes they do not get along". Buyer beware, no contract with fair options (dog replacement) not disclosures do not buy. We lost the dog, lost money, (hundreds of dollars in vet bills after each fight). There needs to be laws to protect buyers from such unsavory practices by breeders. They get away with a lot.
We also wish to add Reggie and Max were both neutered at about six months old because of all the problems. Torgets
Thanks for the comments. Perhaps Susan has changed her manner of dealing with customers. She certainly Did not tell us about same sex litter mate problems. She was most eager to send us the second male to us and get her money. Yes, she would have taken Reggie back early on, for whatever she could get for him, I will remind everyone I paid $3000, 00 for these two dogs. I trusted her since she was a sister-in-law to a good friend. She was quite aware of the potential for disaster placing same sex littermates. An ethical breeder does not put unsuspecting buyers in this situation. Waiting five years was nuts on our part however, we loved them both and it was a situation where we hoped in time everything would work out. We still miss Reggie very much.
We were treated most unfairly by Summit Whippet and Susan Vernon. When we placed Reggie all we asked was she help us find a rescue dog, we never asked for cash or anything else what we received from her was sarcasm.
WE still warn everyone to make sure you get a fair contract with provision for a replacement dog if your dog does not work out. Susan Vernon did not offer us a contract. We were at her mercy and she did not care what we were going through. She also knew from the beginning the issues were because they were of the same sex and litter mates something she never revealed to us. It took speaking to several reputable breeders to find this out. I did take the dogs to a certified dog trainer. Her suggestion was to get rid of them, they were so out of control. She is a well respected dog trainer in our area. May I add dog trainers dealing with severe issues do not come cheap. This all could have been avoided had Susan done the ethical thing and not sold us same sex litter mates. Max the Whippet I have left is perfectly fine now. I understand Reggie is doing fine in his new home. Breeders have a responsibility to be fair and honest with their customers.
We have been a thorn in Susan Vernon's side therefore, I have no doubt she contacted folks she knows (who may be breeder friends or customers she treated better than she treated us) to place their comments on the complaints board. Some of the comments are not even relevant (pointing out her show record). What does her show record have to do with her ethics? A breeder who has any compassion for the dogs and the families they sell them to would NOT sell same sex litter mates to anyone. We are much better educated now after this experience and TRUST no one when considering a pet purchase. Five year is a long time to live with the nightmare we were faced with and it was because of the LOVE we had (and have ) for both the dogs we endured this awful situation. It was like losing a member of our family when we placed Reggie last February. Some of the comments state, we should have returned Reggie to Susan sooner. Susan did not offer a replacement dog, she did not even consider the pain of losing Reggie for our children. Nor did she consider our monetary loss.
Susan Vernon's comments to us when we sadly let her know we had been force to find a new home for Reggie were, "I do not hold you at fault for wanting to place Reggie; After five years of owning the dog I am surprise that you suddenly became so desperate to be rid of him." Does this sound like someone who has compassion for the family or the dog?
Buyer BEWARE.
The Sack Family. As far as "making up as we go along" I am not sure what you mean by that comment. My comment stands as it is. As for "owning up to our own mistake" we would not have had any mistakes if Susan had been honest and told us what she surely knew as a long time breeder, about selling same sex litter mates. I am sure if you were the one who paid $3000.00 dollars for TWO dogs you would feel quite differently about this situation. I am sure as the dog lover you claim to be you would have been as devastated as we were to have to give up one of these dogs. We are neither obsessed or lack for a life. However, we believe ethics and fairness are a very important part of any business transaction and in this case that did not happen. I do believe you need to CAREFULLY re read what took place, you appear to be overly dramatic and emotional over something you were not involved in. We will continue to respond to comments because we were the ones to lose money and a pet NOT YOU.
To industriell, thank you for reconsidering your comments. We believe human nature being what it is, the truth when heard or read is easily dicernable. Our complaint is an accurate account of what happen to us with Summit Whippet and Susan Vernon. One has to wonder what folks like the Sack family stand to gain with their personal attacks on us, whom they have never met, particularly since they were not at all involved in this tragedy.
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
I have nothing to do with this situation, however I am currently on the hunt for a reputable whippet breeder and stumbled on to this quagmire. I currently own a whippet boy who is the light of my life and before him, we owned 2 beagle-coonhound mixes who were brother and sister from the same litter. After reading through all the posts and comments, the thing that really bothered me was this: if I had issues with my whippet, contacted my breeder and their response to me was to "send Reggie back, I sell him for whatever I can get for him"... I would NEVER want that dog to get anywhere that breeder again. Yikes! The total lack of empathy or consideration in that statement is terrifying. I dont fault the Torget family for hanging on to the dog and trying to make it work. If nothing else, Summit appears to need interpersonal and customer interaction training. Keep in mind these dogs are living beings and at least in my house, our lives revolve around those doe eyes. Good for you Marie Torget for sticking up for yourself and your dogs. Internet trolls are always ready to put you down for telling your truth as you experianced it.
All I can say is that anyone who cites dollars and cost as much as Maria should not have a dog. I have never quantified the money I have placed on my dogs, or children. True love has no value. Because of this post I have contacted Susan because she sounds like a good person. I hope Susan contacts me, because I would like to get a whippet pup from her! Thanks Maria:-)
I got the two most amazing whippets from Susan… Came across this board trying to remember the name of her website as it's been so longs since I've inquired about pups. I just put down my first whippet of 12 years that I bought from Susan as pet back in 2003. I bought my second whippet from her 7 months later after my first whippet for a companion. I'm now in the market for my second generation of whippets. My experience with her was great. I'm sorry to hear she has not met your expectations. I have a dear friend who also bought two whippets (not litter mates) from Susan in 2005 after my friend fell in love with my dogs. Susan was great with my friends too. It's hard to read your review knowing my two most loved creatures in the whole world came from her. Some objective feed back to your complaint… I personally didn't find her reply to you as offensive. Sounded very matter of fact. As for expectation of help in finding a replacement for your dog? That is hard. Just click on whippet rescue, something like 10 dogs a year become available. And they get hundreds of applicants a year, if not more. When I picked up my second pup from Susan she had a two year old dog that she had taken back/or was helping find a home for at the time. I inquired about it and remember it needed a specific environment if I remember correctly. Finding a replacement dog and having it be a perfect fit sounds like costumer service at a rescue center, not a professional dog breeder that your lucky enough to get a dog that's not show quality. Not trying to ruffle your feathers just offering a different experience that I had and am so grateful for. Got the best two dogs of my life from her.
You keep blaming this on same sex litter mates as the problem. I have same sex litter mates that do get along. There are some dogs that are not litter mates that will not get along and just don't like each other. It can be for dominance, hormones or fear aggression or a combination of it all. I unfortunately was very inexperience and thought whippets wouldn't fight because after all I didn't buy a pit bull. I also saw many; who had multiples and they got along fine, so I stupidly assumed mine would. I am sorry for what happened and understand your attachment and how hard to reach a decision about getting rid of one. But Dog's are Dog's and a lot of times we, including myself treat them as people which is a big mistake. I am still learning through the school of hard knocks.
We am happy your experience was so great. Perhaps she learned a lesson after dealing with our situation, not everyone walks away from unfairness. We still suggest to anyone buying an animal, get a contract which spells everything out. You claim she "does not make money selling animals, " is she breeding to give the dogs away now? At $1500.00 a dog ($3000.00 for the two PET (not show dogs) quality we got from her) times the multiple dogs born to a litter, that is a bit of pocket change, just for breeding animals. Breeder have a responsibility for the animals they bring into the world AND to the customers they sell them to.
This is my final post, but I need to say I have absolutely NO 'ulterior motive.' I simply want to state that I have found Susan to be a good breeder, and I respect her very much. She does NOT 'make her money selling animals'. I suspect she spends more than she takes in.
I am done with this topic.
P.S. We have moved on, thank you very much. We have a happy household with three very happy pooches. We simply will not let folks like you twist the facts. You must have some ulterior motive for your intense interest in all of this. Could it be you are hoping for the next show dog from Susan? We have made a effort to determine exactly why there were such intense issues between Reggie and Max. WE now understand, this was a dominance issue in which Reggie (who was the inferior dog) was marking (urinating) inside the house to claim ownership of his residence. It was not a house breaking issue per say. Again, as a breeder and someone who makes her money selling animals, she needs to hone up; to her mistakes, and do so in a compassionate manner. How do you think my children felt when we re- homed Reggie? The $$$ was all she was interested in. Our mistake was keeping Reggie as long as we did out of ignorance, you will never convince me she did not know the risk in placing male litter mates. Every responsible breeder we have spoken to tell us they will not sell same sex litter mates, even if they are to be neutered. There are a lot of breeders out there readers, find one with a responsible track record. GET A CONTRACT TOO.
I very much doubt you have convinced many people. I am sorry you feel you cannot move on from this. Blame is a useless emotion.
to jobak and bwoodall Neither one of you read very well. It is true we waited way too long to re-home Reggie, because we cared deeply for both dog and hoped with age the behavior would change.. We claim to have had many different types of dogs; however never litter mates, we are not dog behaviorist to know every nuance of dog behavior.. She is a breeder and it is her responsibility to know more than her buyers.WE NEVER ASKED FOR A REFUND. Susan did not offer a replacement dog at any time, which would have been the kind and appropriate thing to do. Shes said she would sell Reggie for whatever she could get. Sound responsible to you? What we did ask was for help getting another Whippet, possibly a rescue; no help from her on that score either. It was Susan callous behavior when we finally had to let go that was most upsetting. It is folks like you two who are keeping the fires going. And we will continue respond to the ignorant comments, " My male boards with Susan and loves his brother" what does that have to do with our situation? and we were "trying (we haven't tried, we have succeed) to be a thorn in her side, " we hope we have gotten some folks to think twice before doing business with her. We stand by our complaint.
To the Torget Family- you are obviously the one at fault and your rants are out of control. I own a summit whippet and he has been an absolute joy in our life. He potty trained almost immediately and only had a few accidents as a puppy. As soon as we installed a doggy door he stopped having any accidents altogether. For you to state that you couldn't even housebreak your whippets speaks volumes about your skills as a dog owner. It's obvious that you are on an internet rampage intent on trying to tarnish Susan's reputation. I can assure you that you will not be successful. Like me, most people will read through your stupidity. You lost all credibility when you stated you were trying to be a thorn in her side. In my experience, Susan has been the most helpful and sweetest breeders I have ever encountered and I will, without a doubt, be purchasing another whippet from her in the future. In my opinion Susan responded appropriately and you failed to choose the best options for the dogs. Oh and... my male is frequently is boarded with Susan and LOVES the company of his brother during his stay.
You said Susan offered to take the dog back when you first contacted her. The dog was still young then and it is likely she could have placed it for something close to what you paid. But you chose not to. Instead you endangered both these dogs you claim to love. Has it ever occurred to you that Susan had not encountered this problem before? She had been breeding whippets for only 5 years, and breeding is an ongoing learning process. You claim years of experience with dogs, but you yourselves didn't know there could be a problem with litter mates. Whippets are not gnerally dog aggressive. You had trainers tell you to place one or both dogs. These dogs you loved but endangered. You seem to feel you did EVERYTHING right, (Oh, except for that little slip of waiting through5 years and evidently several serious fights), and by now I am sure you have convinced yourselves of that. I know of no breeder who will refund a purchase price after 5 years. Most contracts I have seen provide only a very small window for refunding a dog if it 'doesn't work out'. if they will at all. It is just human nature to turn sorrow into anger, and that is what I see here. So now you get to chew and chew on your sadness and anger. I think you should just drop this 'complaint' and understand we all are fallible. Susan behaved like a responsible breeder. If she did not commiserate with you as much as you wished, sorry but I don't see that as part of her responsibility.
We have had multiple dogs for forty years (Dobermans, Whippets, Jack Russells etc. We never had litter mate before. WE know how to be pack leaders and know HOW to train dogs. You claim to have had same sex litter mates with no problem, well that's great. However, the potential for disaster getting same sex litter mates is there. Not all instinctual behavior can be changed. If you READ the comments you will note we took these two dogs to a professional dog trainer, her advice was to get rid of one or both of them, they were so out of control. She is a well respected dog trainer in our area. Even "Ceasar" agrees some dogs just need to be re-homed. In our opinion Ms. Vernon lack total compassion and understanding of our grief at the loss of Reggie. We did not ask for refund, or a pup, just to have help with getting a rescue dog. OUR LOSS WAS GREAT EMOTIONALLY AND FINANCIALLY. Since this awful experience we have dealt with TRULY caring, responsible dog breeders, who offer contracts which clearly spells out they will take dog back and provide a REPLACEMENT dog if for whatever reason a dogs does not work out in a home ( within a certain amount of time, We started calling Ms. Vernon within weeks of getting Max). Our position is the same, buyer beware, make sure you get a contract NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE dealing with. Where $$$ are concerned do not trust anyone.
I am lucky enough to own a Summit Whippet, and after very carefully reading this "complaint", I am more certain than ever that if, or when, I ever do get another Whippet, it will be from Susan Vernon. She has always treated me and anyone I've spoken to about her dogs, with kindness and respect, whether they were novices in the breed, or longtime Whippet fanciers. This sounds like a case of owners who were clearly not in charge of their "pack" and had no idea how to go about taking charge, so decided to blame it on the breeder. This person claims that when they take responsibility for a dog, they do so for life, which they clearly did not. Five years is not a Whippet lifetime. Also, after reading what Ms. Vernon wrote to them, I don't see what the problem is with it. She expressed regret that the Torgets had not contacted her first as she always takes back her dogs (VERY responsible breeder behavior), regret that the proper parties had not been given enough time to act, and hope that Max was doing better. What more could the Torgets want? Besides being a thorn in her side, of course. By the way, I've had my own experience with the American Whippet Club; I wouldn't count on their Code of Ethics to provide me with much protection from anyone.
I've had same-sex littermates before, and haven't had a problem with them. My dogs also know who the pack leader is around here, and act accordingly. My suggestion to you is that you learn how to handle dogs before acquiring any more instead of trying, failing, then blaming someone else. Certainly not someone as responsible and upright as Susan Vernon.
I retract my previous comment- having received an email update form this. It sounds like this breeder was out to make a quick buck and move some puppies- all breeders are responsible for a safe home and re-homing if something does not work out with their puppies. The breeder should have been well aware of potential issues and helped the buyer make the correct decision before a problem arose in the first place.
In response to the Torget Family's Derogatory Comments: We were never contacted by Susan Vernon or anyone at Summit Whippets to respond to you, The Torget Family. All I care about is whippets and helping whippet owners. I was on Colorado's Whippet rescue for 10 years. I have over 25 years of experience with whippets and was simply offering my objective and what I thought was a helpful opinion to you, The Torget Family. My whippets from Susan Vernon have been fantastic and I have only had wonderful dealings with Summit Whippets over the years. You, The Torget Family responded to my comments with this exact remark which I have copied from your response: "I have no doubt she contacted folks she knows (who may be breeder friends or customers she treated better than she treated us) to place their comments on the complaints board. " My response to the Torget Family is that you must make it up as you go. I am certainly glad I do not know you, because I would not respect you, and therefore I would not like you. I have total disrespect for people who make assumptions and defame other people. I WAS not asked by Susan Vernon to comment about your problems. How dare you say lies about me. Enough is enough. You are acting obsessively out of control. Own up to your own mistakes and don't drag innocent people down with you into your make believe world. I think you love being a "thorn" in someone's side. Who was your last victim? Do you have a life? You should spend more time with your children and dog than being evil on the internet. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Now try to be good. The Sacks Family
Wow! That is really a shame and I am very, very sorry for the dogs. I personally own a Summit Whippet and am surrounded by 3 other Summit Whippets of my friends. I can not think of another breeder that is as honest and trustworthy as Sue Vernon. Whippets in general can be a bit destructive as youngsters, (but then again so can all dogs) . My whippet chewed up several seat belts in my car before I got smart:)
I got my whippet from Sue as a pup and he was completely housetrained! One of the easiest dogs to live with. And also one of the smartest dogs I have owned. Breeds included: GSD, Dobi, Border Collie, Pointers, Norwich. Wish I would have known of this situation earlier, I would have rescued the dog for Sue.
You should not have waited 5 years to do something about the dogs. Susan Vernon is a
wonderful and very truthful breeder. She has always to my knowledge done right by her
dogs and the new owners. I feel sorry for the 2 dogs that could have been placed in new homes earlier and do not feel sorry for this family. They must not have had as many problems or they would have done something alot sooner.
My husband and I live in Colorado and have personally purchased 4 whippet puppies from Susan Vernon of Summit Whippets over the last few years. Each time I asked her if I could have two littermates at once, and each time she advised me that it was not wise and not to do it. I heeded her advice, and got them all with about 9 months to a year between each one. We hired a trainer with each new whippet who worked daily on their friendliness to other dogs and different environments, agility course training, potty training, walking etiquette, etc. I have owned whippets for over 20 years, but thought I could learn a thing or two. I wanted the integration of the 4 new whippets into our home with 2 older whippets to go smoothly. It has. Susan Vernon's whippets are such a joy to me and my husband. They get along really, really well even with 2 pack leader switches already. It took one week using the crate training method to potty train each whippet (2 hours in the crate, then through the dog door with 1/2 hour in the area for pottying). Summit Whippets in the #1 breeder in California for whippets. The temperments and conformations of their whippets are fantastic. Susan has always answered all my questions by e-mail or phone. My thoughts on the Torget Family whippet problem is that they should have never waited 5 years to solve the problem...that was cruel to the dogs and the Torget Family too. The Torget Family should have returned the whippet to Susan Vernon and she would have placed the dog with a good family OR they should have hired a professional trainer to come onsite at their home to work with Reggie and Max. Professional trainers bring 6-7 other dogs with them too, so your own dogs can work on their social behavior with other dogs. I feel so sad for Reggie, and for Max and for the Torget family. I would have taken Max from Susan Vernon if the Torget Family had returned him. I worked in Whippet Rescue for over 6 years. I am the type of home Max would have gone to if you had relinquished him. We live in Colorado and have 5 gorgeous acres with an agility course and dog trainer to work with our whippets. I am so sorry you did not trust Susan Vernon to do the right thing. Summit Whippets is a fantastic breeder...I trust them. The Sacks Family
If you research dogs you will find that often times, same sex pairings do not work out, waiting for 5 years to place the dog somewhere else was a bad move for both you and the unhappy dogs. When bringing a new puppy into your home it is never advised to have more than one young pup at once as they often do not bond and train with their owner properly. Next time communicate better with the breeder and do online research. This breeders dogs have excellent show and field points, a buyers lack of understanding is no reason to avoid her.