Karoun Cattery Why B-PCB.INFO was founded — Michelle L Casserd of Karoun Cattery why our agency exisits
Official Complaint 7/31/02
Breeder: Michelle L Casserd
Cattery Name: Karoun Persians
Street Address 32810 Guadalajara Drive
City/State/Zip/Country/Phone 1000 Palms, Ca [protected]
Why Bad Pedigree Cat Breeders Info http://www.b-pcb.info was founded because of Michelle L Casserd of Karoun Persians
What will satisfy your complaint?
"A public Apology"
Statement of FACTS:
A letter that Michelle Casserd of Karoun Persians wrote about Rose Marie Zizzo, whom she does not even know, nor has ever seen!
"OK--HERE GOES! It's MAJOR confession time. I hope you will forgive me after you read all that I'm about to say, and I am asking you to PLEASE not tell RoseMarie anything that I've written here, as she has proven many times, with many people, that she can be a VERY formidable opponent when she gets offended. I know that your loyalties are probably to RoseMarie right now, rather than to me, but I can tell you with complete assurity, that you don't know her well enough from just your brief dealings with her, to know who you are dealing with.
If you tell RoseMarie what I am about to reveal, it could cause real problems for Debbie, who RoseMarie owes a lot of money to. And, if it causes real problems for Debbie, then she will be very upset with me, for opening my big mouth. But I have created a situation here, where I can tell that hard feelings have arisen, and I feel now, that honesty is the best policy.
RoseMarie is not now, nor has ever been my friend, although I may have given you that impression. In fact, quite the opposite is true. I can't understand for the life of me why Debbie keeps dealing with her, after everything that's transpired between the two of them, and with me, and things that's she's witnessed have happened with other people. I'll explain more in the body of this letter.
The way I became acquainted with RoseMarie (whom I've never met in person, by the way), was because I had a high breeder quality odd eyed White male that I was originally going to keep (a grandson of my Grand Champion C.E. White female, 'Northbrook's S.W.A.K.'), but Debbie must have been telling RoseMarie about him, because, I get this phone call from Debbie, telling me that RoseMarie REALLY wants him and is willing to pay $400.00 for him. Since I had never been able to get prices like that living in the desert (this was pre-internet history), it was really a tempting offer, and I decided to go for it. As it turns out, RoseMarie couldn't afford to pay that amount all at once, so she contractually agreed to make payments of $100.00 each month for 4 months.
A breeder friend, Evelyn Jones of Upland, Ca. 91784, [protected], (the breeder of my Odd- eyed White male, 'Trubl'), was visiting me one weekend, and told me she would drop the kitten off, and get RoseMarie to sign the contract, on her way back to her house in Upland. Evelyn called me up when she got home and told me that RoseMarie was really weird, and that I probably had just made a HUGE mistake. Then, a month or so after RoseMarie got the cat, she up and decided that she no longer wanted him??, and being that I originally had intended on keeping him, instead of holding her to her contract, I agreed to take him back. THAT was a Big Mistake!
Another long time breeder friend, Esther White P.O. Box 67, Thousand Palms, Ca.92276, has a sister, JoAnne (who lives in Bloomington, but visits the desert on weekends), and she agreed to pick him up from RoseMarie's house in Hemet on her way here. When JoAnne got here she also did not have a positive thing to say about RoseMarie. She said she didn't have 'two brain cells to rub together.' And then I came to discover that my White boy was returned to me with the WORST case of ringworm I had ever seen on a cat. His entire back was one big lesion. I had never seen a spot that BIG. So, being the 'fungaphobic' that I am (because of experiences similar to Debbie's that I'll explain below), I told Esther that she could have him if she was willing to deal with isolating and treating him for however long that it took. So, not only was I out the money for the boy, I had to give up a cat that I was originally going to keep, who was only one out of two that I had gotten from my Grand Champion female's bloodline(When I bought 'Northbrook's S.W.A.K.,' she was 7 years old, and she had already been 'used up,' as her former owners were trying to get a DM on her, and apparently had bred her to death, so I was only ever able to get 2 live kittens out of her, out of four breedings--she's 12 years old now, and living with Esther).
Subject: Cat Breeders Society. Org Message #2
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002
Shar-Dew Persians posted Message #2 in the Cat Breeders Society. Org
Dated : August 22, 2002
Subject: Michelle Casserd/Karoun Persians/~Thousand Palms, CA
Written BY: Michelle Casserd about Shar Dew Persians
(I heard via the grapevine that RoseMarie actually got DQ'd at a show with one of those Silvers). So we assumed that RoseMarie was probably lying to us, so that she wouldn't have to admit that she spent big bucks on a cat that should have gone to Debbie. So, I decided to play detective, and check it out for Debbie, since she doesn't have her computer set up at present. This, I confess, is why I originally wrote to you--to find out if RoseMarie had REALLY traded you for one of her Silvers.
Plus I also DID want to find out if you had ringworm, because RoseMarie was trying to talk Debbie into taking kittens back instead of paying her the money she owes. RoseMarie has gotten cats with ringworm before that have infected all of her cats(she never isolates, and never learns), and because she knows how strongly Debbie and I feel about it, we fear that she will lie to us and tell us she doesn't have it, when she does. So Debbie does not trust her. Debbie got ringworm in her cattery a few years back from kitten buyers that had visited other catteries first, and she battled it for over a year. In order to handle all the work involved, and still do the things necessary to take care of her large family, she had to get rid of about half of her Chocolate breeding program. And all the labor involved-- the full 8-12 hours every 5 days spent bathing & dipping the remainder of the cats that she kept, still about killed her physically.
It was a REAL set back for her, physically, emotionally, financially, and in losing lines that took her years to develop. She still hasn't gotten back to the place that she was before that happened. So, Debbie NEVER wants to go there again. She says she would just 'hang it up' if it ever happened again. Because of that experience, she's more of a 'fungaphobic' than I am (and I'm baaaad).
Now, when Debbie shows a kitten to prospective buyers, she puts it in a cage on the front porch (NO ONE comes in to her house), and she won't even let the people touch the kitten unless they're really serious about buying. And, after they leave, she sprays down the porch with fungicide, and then sprays all the way out to the street. If the people don't buy the kitten, it immediately gets taken inside and bathed with fungicidal shampoo.
So, to make a long story short....when I wrote to you originally, it was to find out those two things for Debbie--whether RoseMarie had actually traded for a Silver kitten, and whether you had fungus in your cattery.
When you didn't answer the questions in the first e-mail, because of the confusion about thinking I wanted a stud service, it became necessary for me to carry the charade a step further. I visited your web site, and looked on the 'Available Adults' page, and picked a cat to inquire about, that I thought would be the least likely to be available as a breeder. The way it was worded on your web page, I thought that 'Magoo' was probably already neutered, so that would eliminate him as a possibility, and I wouldn't have to waste any more of your time. Oddly enough, when you wrote back to me and told me that 'Magoo' WAS available as a breeder, I really DID become interested (my Cataholia). That part was the truth. I really HAD been wanting a White carrying(or masking) the Himy gene for a long time. When I had to give up all my cats when I got sick, that's the direction I was going in. I had bred 'Sunny'(the White girl you liked on my web site) twice, to one of Debbie's CPC's carrying Lilac-Cream Point, hoping to get White CPC's carrying the Lilac gene. I had kept a copper eyed White male out of her first litter, and her second litter which contained two Whites(one odd eyed), was about 4 weeks old, when I had to place her, because of my illness. So, I printed off 'Magoo's' pedigree and picture, and took it down to my friend Esther, who runs Animal Control, to see if she would isolate him there for me for a few weeks.
Esther did this once for Debbie, when Debbie got a cat from RoseMarie that she was concerned about being exposed, or having ringworm. I went in once every 5 days for six weeks, and Lyme dipped her for Debbie. Well, like I told RoseMarie(which she obviously repeated to you), Esther was not too impressed with either the pictures or the pedigrees, the fact that you had ringworm, and that you knowingly let someone in your house that was infested with it, and so she told me to 'Run Like Hell.' So, she made no offer to isolate 'Magoo' for me . Please don't be offended by Esther's comments--I don't always share her opinion. Ester has been a breeder since the 'dark ages', and has an incredible memory. She knows all the great catteries from way back(in several breeds), their breeders, and can even quote most of the names of the top cats that they have produced. Esther herself, has 5 Grand Champions at the moment, and she has impeccable pedigrees--but that is one of the things as a breeder/shower that is really important to her. If I was all that concerned about pedigrees, I certainly wouldn't be a friend of Debbies, as she does some of the strangest breedings I've ever seen. (NEXT Part #2)
Subject: Michelle Casserd Part # 2 Karoun Persians
Date: Wed, 31 July 2002
Time: Wed, 31-Jul-2002 17:07:39 GMT
Letter Michelle Casserd wrote about Shar Dew, again not even knowing me!
Well, after that, a few months went by, and I got a whim, and decided that I wanted to see if I could trade some of my Persians for some Abyssinians(which is really my number 1 love in the cat world) so, just for fun, I threw an ad on Yahoo classifieds to see what kind of response I would get. RoseMarie saw the ad, with my show quality Tortie pictured on it, and decided that she would like to have her.
(She's always trying to swing deals where she doesn't have to shell out any money) So, I get this e-mail from RoseMarie about letting 'by- gones be by-gones,' and like you so aptly put it, 'I smelled a fish.' The very next e-mail I get from her is asking me if I want to trade my Persians for some yet as unborn Oriental Shorthair kittens. Well, like I said, I wouldn't give RoseMarie a dead dog, so I politely responded that although I thought Orientals were very pretty, that I knew nothing about the breed, and would rather stick with what I knew and loved.
After that, I have heard very little from her, so she proved that my feelings about her motives were accurate. She also just recently was whining to Debbie about the money she owed her, and brought up the fact that she had done a web site for her, and wasn't that worth something. So, now Debbie is questioning her motives about doing that also. The latest story, is that RoseMarie is getting a Himy female from somewhere. She will probably keep collecting, to fill the empty hole in her psyche, until she is either totally overwhelmed by not being able to deal with the work again, or overwhelmed with disease from not isolating, and she will probably do a similar number as she did before, which is to dump all her cats. If I were you, I would try to figure out some way to get my kitten back. Or you can just wait in the wings and see what happens.
Again, I am sorry for the fabrication. I was just trying to help out my friend Debbie. I didn't mean for it to become such a soap opera. I do hope you will forgive me. Michelle
^,,^ This is a letter Michelle Casserd of Karoun Persian's wrote to a friend of mine [who I thought was a friend] about Shar-Dew Persians, this letter shows gossip, lies, backstabbing even to her own best friend debbie darling, and how "wicked" women can be towards one another
Also when I went to bring Sir Michele to Michelle Casserd behind the back parking lot of Denny's, I had to meet her somewhere because she does not have a car, so her son came and meet me behind some resturant. The strangest thing happened when I meet him, he actually asked me for "money" and said "he did not have enough money to get home." Can you believe a person you never meet before asking a stranger for money, I wonder where the value are there? I would not give him a dime!
Then about 3 weeks ago I get an email from her long lost daughter which I never heard she had and she wanted to find her mom and said she was living in Nevada. So I gave the daughter her mom's email address. But that was really strange. Then I originally made her friend Debra Darlings web site and they took it over and took off my name from making her site and then re-did a few items and still my name is not on that site. They are afraid to make their own site with their own url. They just keep using the one I made for her. Well if that is not stealing I dont know what is.They dont want to give the people credit for the work they did, they just change the graphics and say its there/s . Oh well such is life.!
FOLLOW UP BY: Michelle Casserd wrote this to Shar Dew Persians 9/22/02................
Hello RoseMarie, : Are you ever going to give up carrying around this grudge, and letting it eat you alive and control your every waking thought? Since you claim to be such a God fearing Christian, have you ever read the scriptures that say not to let the sun go down on your anger, or about forgiving your enemies and praying for them? If I were you, I'd definitely be praying to God about taking this festering anger out of your heart. Dated : August 25, 2002 at 16:03:08
Subject: Michelle Casserd ...Kauroun.Persians
I almost forgot to express this. I am the one who gave Michelle Casserd Sir Michel on a trade, I took back a pet quality silver and gave Michelle a Show quality red tabby mac. It is the best kitty she has ever had in persians We have definitely been doing that. Even as much negativity as you have thrown in our direction, we have not returned like with like. So, who do you think is acting more like a Christian?
FOLLOW UP BY SHAR-DEW 9/22/02..........
To forgive your enemies is a very hard thing to do, especially when # 1 you never deserved to be treated so bad, for no reason at all and, and no one ever said they were truly very sorry for what was in that letter,.................. I never heard a word of "I am so sorry I said such terrible things to you, and about you?".................. People should think before they speak as not to hurt other people in this life, there is too much hurt, why put more wood in the fire by implusively speaking to hurt people?
Dated : September 24, 2002
Subject: Re:Michelle Casserd
Karoun Persians/Thousand Palms, CA Part # 3..... Written by: Michelle Casserd
I beg you to please quit threatening Debbie.( I told Debra Darling if she does not give me back the cfa papers I would expose her and her breeding practices on the internet, that is they call threat) She is completely : blameless in this whole matter. She had absolutely no knowledge of what I : had written in that letter to (Melanie Lowry), and if she had, I'm sure she would : have objected to me sending it. That was the BIG mistake that I made--not : running it by Debbie first, AND trusting ( Melanie Lowry) not to betray my : confidence, when I didn't even know her. I tend to be very impulsive : sometimes, and I shouldn't have put any references to the way Debbie felt : about things in that letter, without checking with her first. It was not my : place to do that. : It was a very vindictive thing that you did, taking down Debbie's : web site, and I'm really sorry for her that I was the one who created this : mess, because of my big mouth. I don't blame you for disliking me, but : Debbie is an innocent pawn in this matter, who always defended you, and : remained your friend, no matter what bad things I had to say. : Michelle
9/24/02 FOLLOW UP BY: SHar-Dew
To Michelle Casserd,..................
This is Shar-Dew I am writing to you since you are the one who actually wrote such a terrible letter about me to someone else, to begin with. I do have some questions for you that I would like for you to answer me.
# 1. Why would a person such as yourself write such a terrible letter about another person?
#2. Is that apart of your everyday frame of mind to like to hurt people?( Because it seems to me that your 7 page letter that I even printed out to Debra Darling ) comes very natural to you as a part of your character, and comes very easy to you.
#2. Do you actually like to hurt other people?
#3 Do you realize that the words that come out of your mouth, are truly inside of your heart to begin with?
# 4. Can you tell me why you are the way you are, so cutting and hurtful to others such as myself?
#5 Were you actually jealous of my friendship with Debra?if so WHY?
#6 What did I ever do to you that you wanted to hurt and cut up me with the words you spoke about me?........
Subject: Michelle Casserd...........
Thousands Palms, Ca
Date Posted: 20:16:11 03/16/03
Email Address: cbs.[protected]@catlover.com.au
Entered From: 22.214.171.124
Michelle Follow Up's Next 9/24/02 FOLLOW UP BY: SHar-Dew To Michelle Casserd,..................
This is Shar-Dew I am writing to you since you are the one who actually wrote such a terrible letter about me to someone else, to begin with.
Michelle Casserd wrote:
I only wrote what I see to be the truth.
Shar Dew wrote:
I do have some questions for you that I would like for you to answer me.
QUESTION # 1. Why would a person such as yourself write such a terrible letter about another person?
Because I care about other people and the welfare of their animals, and If there's anything I can do to keep someone from getting hurt by being unaware of what kind of person they are dealing with, then I feel compelled to do it..
Is that apart of your everyday frame of mind to like to hurt people?
No, as I said above, my motive was to keep another person or their cats from being hurt by YOU, like you have done with June Colewell, Trish, Debbie, and myself (and that's only the people I know about--probably only the tip of the iceberg).
Shar Dew wrote:
( Because it seems to me that your 7 page letter that I even printed out to Debra Darling ) comes very natural to you as a part of your character, and comes very easy to you.
That letter was never meant for your eyes to see. Where I made my mistake was by trusting in the confidence of a complete stranger.
Shar Dew asked:QUESTION #3.
Do you actually like to hurt other people?
QUESTION #4 Do you realize that the words that come out of your mouth, are truly inside of your heart to begin with?
Yes, those words were truly from the bottom of my heart.
QUESTION: # 4.
Can you tell me why you are the way you are, so cutting and hurtful to others such as myself?
Since you only have yourself as the sole example of a person that I have hurt, why are you assuming that I am hurtful to others?
Were you actually jealous of my friendship with Debra? if so WHY?
That's a ridiculous assumption! Debbie and I have been friends for 14 years. Our friendship has withstood the test of time, and there's not a thing that could threaten it. Can you say the same for the people in your life? By your own admission to me, you have NO friends. There IS a reason for this!
What did I ever do to you that you wanted to hurt and cut up me with the words you spoke about me?MICHELLE Wrote:
Perhaps if you re-read the letter I wrote, and could 'own up' to the fact that you DID do all the things that I stated you had done to all those people, you just MIGHT have a pang of conscience and remorse. Sometimes the truth hurts!......
I may have more questions later on but for now this is all I have...............I would like to know all this because I would truly like to leave this bad experience behind me MICHELLE.
If you truly wanted to leave this bad experience behind you, you would have done it several months ago. Instead you have been consumed with vengeance, which has occupied your every waking moment. I wrote one letter to one person, who for lack of knowledge at the time, was your ally, so no one was hurt by what I wrote. But , you on the other hand, vindictively were compelled to publish slanderous lies on the internet for everyone to see. and also there are 2 sides to every story. You have mine in my letterSHARDEW wrote:
I am asking you to help me get this behind us and go on with our lives. I need you to answer all these questions and I am expecting a written public apology for the letter you wrote about me.
I cannot apologise for a letter that was written in truth. And with all the slanderous lies you have printed about Debbie and I since that time, not to mention continuous e-mail harassment using alias' (do you really think that we didn't know they were from you?), filing complaints with CFA, calling Animal Control, etc., etc., etc., it is YOU who owes US a public apology.
You are lucky that Debbie really is a true Christian, unlike yourself, who only professes to be one to con innocent people. Had she not been one, you're vengeance would have been miniscule by comparison. SHARDEW wrote:
Thank you for listening to all I expressed and I pray you will, this time, do the right thing here.
No, now it's YOUR turn to do the right thing, Shar Dew.
This letter was written by Michelle Casserd and she told me it was not suppose to go to me and sent it to me by accident!
I had my lawyers write her a letter below
Written By: Michelle Casserd
Oops! This e-mail wasn't supposed to go to you RoseMarie, it was supposed to go to a friend of mine that's been following this saga all along. She thinks it's all a trick on your part. I spoke to Debbie about your proposal of the Cameo kitten(that's before I got all the other e-mails), and she says she'll have to think about it. She doesn't really know whether or not she wants anything more to do with you. So, I'll get back to you about that when I hear back from her. Michelle Go to Yahoo classifieds and see the gorgeous cats that RoseMarie is offering Debbie--Yeah, right! I spoke to Debbie about the two letters I wrote(before all these responses), and she wasn't at all miffed about what I wrote--I think she would have liked me to have added more--telling RM that if we really wanted to get down and dirty, that we knew the trailer park where she lived(which probably only allows so many cats), that we could turn her in to Social Security, Animal control, CFA, and sue the pants off of her. Well, if this IS all a trick, It'll be the straw that broke the camel's back. All Hell is going to break loose. Speaking of tricks--guess who just referred a kitten sale to me? LINDSTROM Persians. I wonder what Rose is up to now?" Michelle >^,,^<