This is a warning for anyone looking to purchase a horse from Casey Palmer or Jodi Bagwell of Porum, Oklahoma. They also list themselves out of Dallas, Texas and even occasionally in California. They are d.b.a. (doing business as) Rockin P Quarter Horses or www.rockinpquarterhorses.com.
Casey Palmer advertised a 12 year old kid safe horse on the www.Dreamhorse.com website and also on www.agdirect.com (unsure of any other websites he may have used also). I contacted him and spoke with him about the mare. I let him know that this was going to be the first pony for a 7 year old child. He assured me that the pony was bomb proof (bombproof), completely safe, anyone can ride, could be used as lesson horse, etc., etc. I specifically asked him if the horse had ANY health issues and if she was sound. He assured me that she was "completely healthy and sound" and that he would not be able to find one this nice again for a couple of years. He also told me several times "You will not be disappointed in this horse". After several very believable conversations with Mr. Palmer, I agreed to pay him $1000 for the pony and he assured me that he would be able to have her shipped to my home for approximately $200 within 1 to 5 days.
Each time I phoned Casey asking what the status was for shipping the mare - it was difficult to get a hold of him and when I finally did he always had a story. He told me that his fiancee (Jodi Bagwell) had found transportation and he would get back to me with the details. After not hearing from him again, I called Jodi only to find out (that what he had said was not true) and that she had no idea what he was talking about and had not made any such arrangement with anyone . Then, he tells me "a friend" could transport the horse for approximately $500 (more than double what he originally told me it would cost). Finally, after several weeks of this, I resorted to arranging my own transportation, which was substantially higher than he indicated it would be.
The transportation company arranged to pick up the horse, but had to wait for several hours (past the agreed pick up time) for Mr. Palmer to finally bring the horse to them putting them behind schedule for their other clients.
When the pony finally arrived at my location (less than 24 hours later), she was not even completely off the trailer when I noticed a horribly inflamed, running, swollen eye oozing yellow pus. Her entire nose and muzzle were also completely covered in a blistered, scabby sort of rash, bleeding in some spots. I immediately phoned my veterinarian (who arrived in less than an hour) and informed me that the ponies left eye had CANCER and that the right eye was not far behind. He indicated that this had been going on for at least a year - possibly longer. She was also running a fever, very underweight and had a slightly clubbed foot. Now, mind you, he had a couple of photos of her that I had seen but all taken at a distance impossible to discern the issue with her eyes.
I immediately phoned Mr. Palmer to let him know about my shock in seeing her in this condition and asked him to contact me so that we might resolve this. He refused to answer his phone or return my call. I sent him an email that evening with a photo of the pony's eye and asked how this could have possibly been overlooked when I had specifically asked if she had ANY health conditions. He again refused to reply, not even to express surprise or concern of any sort for the pony.
The following morning the pony was severely ill with pneumonia. It took extensive care and intravenous antibiotics to bring her through. (I have documentation for all of this) Her eye tissue was biopsied and confirmed that it was cancer (again, I have the report from the pathologist). She will most likely lose her left eye to the cancer in the very near future at a cost of upwards of $2,000 to me (this will in the end be closer to approximately $4,000 with the additional vet expenses - once again, I have written estimates from my veterinarian). Her right eye is also exhibiting similar symptoms, so we are unsure what her prognosis will be. Of course, if her right eye continues to follow the same course as her left eye, we will be forced to humanely euthanize her. Imagine the horror to a young child just receiving their first pony.
As far as the pony being labeled completely sound, I have already indicated that vet said she had a clubbed foot. She has also required special trimming on all four of her feet (my farrier said it was one of the worst cases she had seen and immediately moved the pony to her list of priorities for fear of her suffering permanent leg damage). She has had to trim the pony in several separate appointments to avoid doing too much at once. The pony is still showing signs of considerable heel pain in both front feet (possibly navicular?) I have not had her X-rayed yet (due to the other extensive health issues that we are already dealing with). Mr. Palmer had also told me that he was a farrier (or as he spells it "ferrier") and that her feet were in "perfect" condition. My complaint, however, is regarding the eyes. This is just additional information indicative of her overall condition.
I had opted not to do an additional vet check due to the fact that my own vet told me that it really doesn't do me any good. If the vet is a friend of the seller, or just plain incompetent, my only recourse would be to sue the veterinarian in the state it was done. I also see vet checks as a tool to uncover UNOBVIOUS or hidden issues or conditions that cannot be observed without the expertise of a vet. I had concluded (due to Mr. Palmer's untruths about the mare's condition) that there were no obvious conditions observed by Mr. Palmer that needed to be further examined by a vet. Had Mr. Palmer or Ms. Bagwell indicated that there was ANY sort of inflammation or issue with her eyes, I would have either requested a vet to do a further evaluation of her eyes or (most likely) terminated the transaction altogether.
Now, as to Mr. Palmer's claims of the pony being bombproof, kid safe and a perfect beginner or lesson horse. This also appears to be untrue. I have been riding horses for 25 years and the mare was wanting to take off with me. Mind you, this is NOT asking her to canter or run barrels, but just at a walk. She spins, throws her head, and had to be held tight in the bridle just to keep her at a walk. I have not even attempted to trot and canter her - as she was barely responding to me at a walk. Hardly appropriate for a kid's horse. But then again, should I be surprised at this point? She also pins her ears and gets extremely pissy when being tacked up. Even when cinching her slowly, she turns her head towards me as if she wants to bite - but has not as of yet. I am not comfortable putting ANY child on this horse, experienced or not. At this point, I would not put a beginner adult on her either.
After the pony's arrival, I phoned an equine attorney who informed me that a seller MUST inform a buyer of a pre-existing condition and make no effort to conceal it or it is fraud, regardless if an additional vet check is done or not. I have 5 years to put together a lawsuit should I choose to do so. I will happily email photos of this pony's eye if you are curious if there is any possible way that Mr. Palmer or Ms. Bagwell could have overlooked her condition. I believe that even the most novice horse person would be able to easily identify a problem. Mr. Palmer allegedly trains and sells horses for a living. How could he possibly have missed this?
During my discussion with the equine attorney, she asked for the name of the seller. When I informed her that it was Casey Palmer out of Porum Oklahoma, she immediately indicated that she was familiar with his name, as she has another client that also recently had a fraudulent sale with him. I have personally spoken with this other individual and I am sure that she would be happy to relay her unfortunate dealings with Mr. Palmer also. She essentially informed me that Mr. Palmer sold her a horse that was also supposed to be guaranteed to be safe, no buck, etc., etc. (it appears that most of their horses that are posted all have similar descriptions). Anyway, apparently this horse was dangerous and bucked every time he was asked to canter. This person lost a great deal of money trying to resolve the horse's issues (vets, chiropractors, equine massage therapists and even a professional trainer). After the horse broke the back cinch of the trainer (bucking) the trainer recommended that she get rid of him, as the trainer did not believe the horse would ever be safe. She lost a great deal of money because of this transaction with Rockin P Quarter Horses, and was disturbed and infuriated to hear that I was now also in a difficult situation.
To reiterate, I feel that there is no possible way that the conditions of this pony's eyes could have possibly been overlooked. When Mr. Palmer delivered the pony up to be transported, he specifically told the driver to "leave this fly mask on." The driver obeyed these orders and did not see the condition of the pony's eyes until just shortly before delivering her to me - and was appalled at her condition. The driver indicated that he had only seen horses in this poor of condition being hauled to slaughter.
Mr. Palmer and Ms. Bagwell knew fully well that this pony was to be a childs first horse - per my discussions with them. If she survives, she will be a one eyed horse which can be dangerous for an experienced rider, and certainly not ideal for a young rider just learning to ride, although after riding her, I find that she is an unsuitable mount for a child - even with BOTH eyes. Again, with both eyes exhibiting the same symptoms, we are unsure of her prognosis.
I feel that the lack of ethics and professionalism exhibited by Rockin P Quarter horses is deplorable and unforgivable. There were absolutely no attempts to contact me, offers to exchange the horse, offer for a full or partial refund, to simply apologize, express any sort of surprise at the news, or even check the welfare of the pony.
It is irrelevant to me whether Mr. Palmer and Ms. Bagwell knew fully well of the condition of the horse or they were too uneducated about horses to know that a horse with an eye condition as severe as this needs immediate medical treatment. Either way, I find it very disturbing that they continue to advertise and sell horses that are not as they are represented to be. I would hope that this should be enough to deter anyone from purchasing a horse from them. Obviously, I feel that this horse was grossly misrepresented as does the other buyer that I have spoken with. And, if an equine attorney immediately recognizes this seller's name I don't see that as a positive indication of their business transactions, do you? In sum, if any one is looking to purchase a horse from this business, I highly recommend that you take the facts of my situation (and the other persons) into consideration and make a wise decision about whether you should purchase or not. I would hate to see yet another person in the same difficult emotional and financial situation that our family has been put into.
I have had several people contact me - telling me how Casey Palmer is "explaining" these situations to others. He is apparently telling folks that the problem with these "problem" horses is because the people that bought them are "city women that don't know how to ride". I can assure you - that is NOT the problem. I have been riding horses for 25 years and have been fortunate to train with some of the top trainers in the nation. He is accepting zero responsibility for the misrepresented behavior of these horses and trying to lay blame on the buyers. Pathetic.
He is also telling folks that we are just trying to get ridiculous amounts of money out of him to resolve our issues. This is also untrue (go figure). He told one person that I wanted $2,000 to resolve this - while he told another person (approximately 24 hours later) that I wanted $5,000. He cannot even keep his own story straight. He is informing these people that I "want to buy another horse with the money". What?!
The TRUTH is this. Casey Palmer had the opportunity but refused to reply to me when I advised him of the situation. The mare was in immediate need of medical attention, and without medical intervention, she would have died. Now, that being said - Casey told (yet) another person that he was going to give me my original purchase price back and take the horse back. Please bear in mind that I had paid $350 to ship the horse and (because of Casey's failure to contact me - and I had no other recourse but to seek a vet's care) - I had also incurred a HUGE vet bill, farrier bills, and feed bills (vitamins and supplements to get the horse back to a healthy weight, etc.). Now, after I have made a HUGE investment into this horse to make it well again, he thinks he should be able to give me back the purchase price and take the horse back? Well, that's a HELL of deal for him, isn't it? I mean, send off a sick or untrained horse, and let someone else pay to make it healthy or rideable again - and not have to reimburse them? I'm supposed to just eat several thousands of dollars? I informed Casey (in a voice mail) that IF he wanted the horse back again, then YES, I would expect reimbursement for my costs incurred while the horse was in my care. Had he made me ANY offer to refund my purchase price (or even a portion of the purchase price) so that I could have at least applied it towards my vet costs (which it wouldn't even make a dent in at this point), I would have at least seen it as an attempt to rectify the situation, and most likely resolved the matter. This was NEVER done. NOTHING WAS DONE! Now, to hear that he is telling people that I wanted $5K to resolve this - is absolutely infuriating.
So, yes, Casey will be happy to "explain" his side of the story to you. However, please bear in mind that the story seems to change daily.
Numerous people have contacted us through these postings. Please keep in mind that these emails sometimes get sent to our "spam" folders (not sure why only some do). Anyway, if you think you haven't received a reply to your comment from any of the original posters on here, please also check your spam folder - just in case it is being sent there. I know that this has happened at least twice. Please don't assume that we aren't replying. We are! Thanks!
Well, just in case you are curious, I did "physically" check out no less than 17 local horses/ponies for my daughter. All of them turned out not to be what they were supposed to be.
But, hmmmm...now that I think of it, I have numerous friends and acquaintances that have "physically" gone to inspect their horses. Guess what? Some were given bute or other medications prior to inspection. Yeah...people do that. Can you imagine? So, guess what? Their behavior and or health were substantially different than when they were inspected. I have also known too many people that paid for full vet inspections and still got screwed. My own vet recommended to not even bother. It's always just a hit or miss.
And guess what else? She DID have her Coggins and health certificates signed by the vet. And no, that vet made absolutely NO mention of her condition. And YES, the transport people asked for the health papers. Oh, and you should breathe easier knowing that she did not infect any other horses with the cancer. Whew...
Now, why would I even be interested in a pony that I hadn’t seen in person? Well, I had extensive conversations about her with My Palmer. They also had photographs and video of this pony acting VERY calm. Matter of fact you could stand on her back and climb under her belly without her even flinching! Cool! Weird thing is, I now realize that every picture of every horse they sell is doing just that. Amazing!
Should I have suspected that this pony was may have been tranquilized in some way? Perhaps. But had I driven several hundred miles to see her in person, how could I have known that she was not given some sort of sedative at that time too? I couldn’t. My point exactly.
Was I foolish to believe Mr. Palmer about this pony? Obviously, yes. He said all the right things. Was I too trusting? Obviously, yes. My parents raised me to be honest. Unfortunately, I have unrealistic expectations that other parents do the same. The days of taking someone for their word is long gone. Yes, good thing my 7 year old daughter learned this lesson early. Never trust anyone. Good lesson to teach. Matter of fact, I should have taught her that one much sooner.
Prior to purchasing this pony, I had found two other horses that were fabulous (and oh my gosh, they weren't even $5, 000). Wild. Unfortunately, other people realized that they were great horses too, and I lost out on them to other buyers, both times by just hours or minutes. Both times my daughter was devastated. I didn't want to lose out on this "perfect pony" too, so I took the leap. Will I pay the price for it? Most certainly. Already have.
By the way, I know of dozens of fabulous kid's horses through local 4H programs, and not one of them was even close to $5, 000. So to say that I need to spend at least that much to get a decent horse is just plain ignorant. Get what you pay for? I have a friend that purchased a $25, 000 Warmblood. Passed the vet inspection and all. Turned out lame just several months later. X-rays didn't show a thing. Odd... Behavior wasn't as expected either.
Ironically, I purchased another horse through Dreamhorse also. I also saw photographs and videos of her. Amazingly, she was all that they advertised. She is calm, sane, healthy. Go figure. This person actually sold a horse as they adverised it. What a concept. Oh, there's that whole "hit or miss" thing again.
I cannot tell you how many emails that I have had from people that have dealt with Casey and Jodi and their stories are much, much worse than mine. Did you happen to read any of the other complaints against these people? Or are you perhaps just a personal friend of theirs? Did you read the complaint about the person DID drive hundreds of miles to "physically" see a horse that Mr. Palmer advertised? Casey tried to switch the horse for a different one and then sell this "imposter" horse to them? Both he and his daughter attempted to ride two of their "bombproof" horses, and were given horses that bucked, reared and went over sideways. Good thing they wasted all their time and gas to go find out he was lying. I was able to enjoy learning that fact in the luxury of my own home.
You've obviously missed the point of my post entirely. My point was simply to say that many of the horses being sold by these people are not what they are advertising. I am hoping that other parents looking for a "bombproof" horse or pony can learn from my mistakes. It's been a very bitter pill to swallow, but your compassion is genuinely touching. Really.
By the way, I did run a search on their personal names and ranch name prior to making the purchase. Unfortunately for me, there were not any complaints posted at that time. Since I have added mine, several other people have posted theirs and dozens of others have emailed me with their problems. My post is simply to warn people to exercise caution if purchasing from them. Had someone else posted a similar story, I would have steered clear.
But you should give them a call next time your looking for a horse. With your obvious horse knowledge, I am sure if you go see it in person, it will turn out just fine.
Perhaps you will be put in a similar situation buying your $5, 000 + horse and having a vet inspection with it. Guess what? You're still not guaranteed. So I guess we all take risks, right?
Hopefully, I will eliminate some headache and heartache for other people, by posting my story.
I find it SO strange that the internet is how most people are choosing to buy their horses now. Just by pictures and videos and talking to the sellers. They ALL must be idiots, like me! Ah, well…I guess I am in good company.
Thank you for your message.
It is encouraging to hear stories of one eyed horses that still do well. My only concern is that her other eye was also exhibiting similar symptoms. I keep my fingers crossed and pray every day that she will beat it.
Thanks again for sharing your story!
To: "Screech owl" or whatever new sign in name you are currently using.
You know what the last comment sounds like to me? It sounds like Casey (or some sorry friend), trying to discredit any individuals that have had very REAL bad experiences with him. It sounds desperate and ridiculous.
The complaints have had to be posted several times, because "someone" (no prizes for guessing who) keeps trying to remove them from the search engines - so people cannot hear or read about the truth of these actual incidents! Then again, you say that Casey has SO many loyal customers that none of this will affect his business. So what are you getting so riled up about? You even stated yourself, that this can't and won't affect his business, right?
If Casey has legitimate sides to offer, then he should do so. What, exactly, is there to argue? These are actual experiences of actual people! If you think that Casey sells great horses, then bully, throw a parade for him! But trying to "attack" the people that had these awful experiences with him, only makes him look even worse. We're embarrassed for you.
Oh, and by the way "Screechowl", if you aren't Casey himself, how could you possibly know who is "watching his videos" on his website? Duh.
Who is the liar now (or should I say as always?)?
Casey has his mom posting comments for him now? It's very touching.
It sounds like you are calling me a liar? And that you don't believe your son would sell a horse in that condition? Because, of course, no one would ever haul a horse that bad. Well, here are some pictures of the horse that was hauled from your son's location to mine.
Yes, a professional transport company hauled the horse. Casey gave the driver strict instructions NOT to remove the fly mask as "the flies were bothering her eyes". The driver obeyed and did not remove the mask until just prior to delivering her. He was appalled at her condition. I still have the signed letter from the Transport Company stating the condition of the pony. And yes, I still have their phone number, and email information, and have remained in contact with them. THEY were very concerned about the welfare of the horse.
I also have proof from my veterinarian that this horse had a fever upon arrival and came down with pneumonia the next day. Dated invoices, etc. I have documented EVERYTHING!
I don't doubt at all that your daughter rode her. Casey told me that his little sister rode her. He said, however, that she didn't know how to ride - but from your story - it sounds like she is quite the accomplished rider.
I have no idea why the horses behavior would be different, but it was. Perhaps it was because she was sicker than a dog? Perhaps once she felt halfway normal, her disposition changed? Couldn't tell you for certain. But I can tell you that she was never a beginner horse for a 7 year old kid (as Casey indicated). Maybe when she was as SICK as she was, she might have been an appropriate horse for a 12 year old advanced rider (as you indicate your daughter is).
I never said that Casey tranquilized the horse. Re-read the comment. And by the way, yes, people can tranquilize horses to calm them, without making them completely "out of it". So, I did learn something after all.
Casey had an opportunity to rectify this situation. I phoned him the same day the horse arrived. What did he choose to do? Erase my message and not call me back. I sent him an email and attached a photo of the poor pony's eye and asked how it could possibly have been overlooked? He chose to delete it and move on. His ONLY phone call to me was after he found out this was posted, to threaten to sue me. I told him to do so, as I had documentation for everything. Never heard back from him. Why didn't he call to express surprise, sorrow, anything? He knew this was a first horse for a child and he couldn't give a rip. I think if he had simply called, expressing some concern for the poor horse, that would have probably been the end of the story. He chose not to. Why is that?
WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU THINK THAT WE HAVE TO GAIN FROM POSTING OUR EXPERIENCES? Not only have we been forced to endure an absolute nightmare, heartache, tears and a tremendous financial burden, NOW we have to this sort of abuse hurled at us?
Why hasn't he posted his side of the story here? Why hasn't he posted his side of the story to Karma's or John's complaints? We hope that he does, our attorneys will be most interested in reading them. AND, I hope for his sake that he has some sort of proof to back up the story that he has been telling to other people about us.
By the way, it is not just the two of us. We have had numerous other emails from people (and yes, we have those emails saved too). Several indicated that they were too afraid to put their complaints on here. Why is that?
We have also had emails from people that claim to be "local" with many unfavorable stories. We haven't put ANY of that on here. But why would complete strangers contact us and make up a bunch of stories?
What exactly is our crime here? We simply trusted Casey. As I indicated before, was I foolish to believe someone and simply take them for their word? Yep. Was I too trusting? Most definitely. We simply felt that we would be remiss not to let others know about it, but now it's getting back to us, things being said about us that are untrue. That's not acceptable.
So continue posting the comments. I expect that there will be 40, 000 comments soon from people that have the BEST horses ever. So be it. We did not have that experience. Casey could have attempted to remedy it from the start, I still can't understand why he didn't?
Any mother that loves her child would try to do what was possible to save the pony. Not just as a mother, but as a caring human being. This poor pony did nothing wrong other than have the misfortune of belonging to people that did not take care of her in the past. WE were the first ones to attempt to do so.
I have NO doubt that this horse WAS on it's way to slaughter, when your son Casey bought her at the sale. He then advertised her as "healthy as can be" and I was foolish enough to take him for his word.
AND YES, I still have all the paperwork that shows he purchased the horse from a livestock/slaughter sale. He said that he bought the horse for his little sister (your daughter) who he told me was 9 years old at the time AND didn't know how to ride (he said she was afraid of horses). Now, only one year later, YOU tell us that she is actually 12 years old and a very accomplished rider. So, either you or Casey are lying. Which one is it?
Also, "Happy Customer", please point out to me where you think that I said "a horse that is unsafe to ride should go to slaughter". What the heck are you talking about? I never said such a thing. I am confused as to why you would think that I said that?
How can you say that you don't think he would knowingly send a sick or unsafe horse to anyone? Either he DID know about these issues, or if he wasn't aware of their health or soundness issues, he should better educate himself as a horse trader, or find another profession.
Did you see the photos provided of the sick horse? If so, I'm thoroughly confused. Are you simply excusing his behavior for that or are you saying that he couldn't clearly see the horrific condition of the horse? How do excuse his behavior for not attempting to rectify ANY of these situations?
Why hasn't he shared his explanations here? Or should I say at least ONE of his MANY explanations, since his stories about each situation tend to change on a regular basis? Our attorneys would be most anxious to hear his side, as would many others.
There has since been another customer that feels quite certain that their horse was buted prior to their riding/inspecting.
Most of the people complaining have agreed that there are bound to be a few decent ones that have been sold. However, these are all legitimate stories (with SUBSTANTIAL proof to back them up) of very disturbing dealings with this person, with more come forward every day.
You may be happy with your horse. Count your blessings that you have not experienced an issue yet. I'd also suggest going and purchasing a lotto ticket while your luck is still good.
The rest of us that have had these horrific dealings ALSO encourage everyone to assess all of these stories and indeed make their own judgement on the business and the man.
Instead of resolving these issues - Casey has simply changed the name of his business and website to "Horses from Oklahoma". The "researchin" and "horsehealer" comments above appear to be from his new girlfriend. Casey contacted at least two of us and asked if we would remove the comments if he made a "payment" to us. We were both skeptical that Casey had any intention other than trying to get the comments removed from the internet. Casey agreed on amounts with both buyers (which were substantially less than we actually lost with our transactions with him). We informed him that once we received the specified amount (not just a "token payment" towards those amounts) we would happily update the comments to reflect that he made things right by us and we even offered to simply remove the comments in their entirety. Disappointingly (but as we suspected), he never made a single payment or further arrangements with us. It is now approaching a year since the calls, so he has had plenty of time to contact us again to resolve any issues with us. We were falsely encouraged that he had finally changed and was wanting to do the right thing - but all that changed was the name of his business and website to throw people off the trail he is leaving behind. Very disheartening.