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Great Fun review: charged by credit card for 119. 99 769

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Author of the review
9:02 am EDT
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This review was chosen algorithmically as the most valued customer feedback.

Very interesting - I just looked over the weekend - had similar charges. I called them and they were closed over the weekend. So not only did they charge this month - they have been charging my credit card since January. I don't know how I missed it. So I called my credit card company and it's not being charged as revolving which mean monthly someone is entering my information from TLG*GREATFUN. I called them this morning, pushed zero and demanded to speak to a manager. After getting a speal from the woman on the phone about what great offers they can provide to me - BLA BLA - THIS IS A SCAM! Management credited my Visa for the last four months and said I would have to contact Corporate to reverse the other charges. Call them now... Great Fun - [protected] - and their Corporate Fax number is [protected].

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769 comments
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k s
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Dec 12, 2007 12:19 pm EST

I also got the line about "sorry sir this is a bad phone reception" even though I live right beside a cell phone tower.

I think it's their way of trying to hang up on you without looking as if they're trying to get rid of you.

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k s
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Dec 12, 2007 12:17 pm EST

I've had the worst time with these people. They *will* refund your money, you just need to threaten to sue them over and over again. Fax them, call them... it's a crime you have to go to that much effort to get your own money that they stole from you, but that's what I did when I noticed they'd been fraudulently deducting money from my account for almost a year *after* I'd called twice to cancel my account. I received unsolicited mail from them on several occasions saying I was somehow a member of their fraud scheme and that's when I started to investigate.

After I noticed eight charges for $9.99 -- one a month -- I called and got the line about a "free trial period" after which my card began to be charged. I asked for the supervisor, also Ms. Angela Jeffrey. I kept pressing her and was told I had to fax a letter requesting my money to be refunded. So I faxed a letter to Ms. Jeffrey, which cost me more of my hard-earned money, saying she had agreed to refund the money and that they'd "also be hearing from my lawyer." Maybe two months later, I was credited 6 of the 8 payments of $9.99.

After that, I called back asking about the other two and was told those two charges had been denied refunds by their executive board because I didn't have a valid cancellation number. Funny, because the last time I'd called to cancel my membership for at least the THIRD TIME!, I was told they didn't give out cancellation confirmation numbers -- just names of supervisors you speak with (red flag in itself -- I'm guessing they do this so they can later say "What's your cancellation number?" knowing you don't have one and deny your refund request). I was told I got *two* letters in the mail saying my last two payments had been denied refunding, and, not surprisingly, I never received either one!

I was fuming now, and all this BS prompted me to say "Why would you refund 6 out of 8 of my payments unless you knew you'd fraudulently deducted them? And why would they agree to refund 6 but not the other two?" She didn't seem to have an answer, so here's the trick: I just kept talking over her and asking for the *supervisor's* supervisor. I told them that, like I'd said in my previous fax and "the fax from my lawyer," I was planning to sue them, that searching their company online shows it is nothing but scam scam scam, and that unless the last two payments were in my account within 10-15 days, I was reporting them to BBB, the District Attorney, and everyone under the sun. *That* got me transferred to Patty Nardone, who apparently works in the "Office of the President" (if there even is one -- who knows if this company is actually 5 people sitting around in their basement ripping people off). I repeated my spiel with Ms. Nardone and she quickly agreed to "override" the "executive board's" decision to deny my last two payment credits.

So... you can get your money back. Just threaten to sue over and over, use the word "lawyer" as often as possible, and when you call, DEMAND to speak to the supervisor's supervisor -- I'd ask for Ms. Patty Nardone in the Office of the President. Say you'd spoken previously with her and were inquiring about why the money had not yet been refunded to your account as she agreed.

Even if they do refund all your money, it is *so* important to report them to every business-policing agency you can think of. Also report them to the parent company through which you were "enrolled" (in my case Orbitz). Let them know what you think of them for allowing this to happen through their "business partners," and that you'll steer clear of doing business with a company such as their that treats you this way. And maybe -- just maybe -- they'll think twice about their relationship (i.e. is the little revenue Not-So-GreatFun brings in by scamming customers worth losing their valued Orbitz customers?).

Save time, money, and energy for all the victims who haven't yet discovered they've been getting ripped off each month. Hopefully together we can shut this scam operation down!

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Zhili He
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Dec 08, 2007 8:49 pm EST

I have been charged $25.98 for two months (October and November, $12.99 per month) on my Visa credit card by TLG GREAT FUN for no reason. I did not authorize those charges, nor have I got any service or products from this company. I even do not know such a company, and nor do I know why they can access my credit card information. So many terrible things happened to this company, which should be investigated throughly.

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Derek Chang
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Dec 05, 2007 7:13 pm EST

I just found they charged me $11.99 in November. I don't know this company and no idea why they can access my credit card information. So terriable.

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Mani
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Dec 04, 2007 2:13 pm EST

Even, I have faced the same problem. I am charged 11.99$ per month. I called my credit card company and they credited it back. but still i wonder from what source they got my CC #

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Elisa W
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Dec 03, 2007 6:27 pm EST

My father was just charged $119.99 on his credit card that he never authorized. He didn't even know what it was for. All he said was that he kept receiving promotions in the mail with a check for a measly $8.95, and once cashed it would enroll him in a program to get coupons for stores. He never cashed the check! What a scam! I don't know how they were able to charge his credit card without his permission. How could they get away with taking advantage of people like that?! And this is supposed to be an annual fee automatically charged on his card. We called the credit card company (HSBC) and they said it would take two billing cycles to get that cleared. They better not charge interest for that $119.99...

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Kelly Baxter
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Nov 27, 2007 4:14 pm EST

I found that pending charge in my account today so I called them. They were very nice and explained to me that probably when I bought a ticket through Cheaptickets.com I accepted to received hotel discounts and such. Before calling I was kind of upset but after I talked to the person, I felt a little embarrassed because I then remember myself clicking on a part where it said something like "you can save or get back 15% of your ticket cost by signing up..." and I did. (They are not scam it seems).

Next time, I'll read things better and think what I really need to be gettig myself into.

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Joe
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Nov 18, 2007 5:09 pm EST

I have the same problem. I was charged $36 from TLG Great Fun. What should I do?

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Ms McClure
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Nov 15, 2007 1:56 pm EST

On November 7th, 2007, I was charged $11.99 from the company called "TLG/GreatFun" (Trilegiant). I did not authorized this debit to my ATM credit card and have never heard of this company. I called my bank to dispute the charges and to gather more information on why I was getting charged. Because the charge was still pending there was nothing (SO THEY SAY) they could until it was posted. They gave me the company's 1-800 number,and ensured me that if it continues they would credit my money back and change my account number. Before I called, I did a quick Google on the company. All I could find was Credit Card Scam, Rip-off Company, etc...

Below are a few of the links.
/URL removed/ http://www.girardgibbs.com/trilegiant.html?gclid=CPK4sJGUy48CFSFaagodkRnu-g
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/scam_alerts/trilegiant_complaints.html

After calling the company at [protected], they asked me for my name, address, phone number, etc... I told them that I wasn't giving them any additional information b/c I didn't know how that got enough information to charge my credit card in the first place! Then I replied that I Googled the company and all I could find was it is a credit card scam. Of course, they put me on hold forever until I got a Supervisor. He started with the same line of questions and I gave the same reply. After typing my name into the computer system he said that by making a purchase through AVON Online and accepting the "DISCOUNT", I authorized 1 month free membership. I am very anal about checking NO for subscription on everything. I don't know how that got pass me. I think it could have been the "FREE SHIPPING", but I don't know! I never got notified or any confirmation of this membership from AVON or TLG (Trilegiant). The Supervisor name is Mark Wright.

I don't appreciate AVON sharing my personal information to a third party. That is suppose to be against you Privacy statement. It is a privilege for anyone to buy you products! Especially when you can find the same items at your local Wal-Mart for a cheaper price! This company have seen the last dollar I will ever spend buy your products!

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Daniela
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Nov 14, 2007 7:21 am EST

I was hit to for the month of November and they charged me 11.99. I called the 1800 number that everyone has posted on this site and I told them how was this put on, why, and who the hell gave them permission. She said it was on an AVON.com I supposedly clicked a box accepting there business. This is ridiculous! Like everyone has said "I cannot believe these people are still in business". The gentlemen supervisor I spoke with was Mark Right and he said I will be credited. I damn straight hope I will be. The next people I am calling is Avon because this is not right for other companies to help scam to another company.

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archita
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Nov 11, 2007 3:02 pm EST

Have fallen a victim too since 5 months.

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Jim Black
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Nov 11, 2007 9:27 am EST

I just noticed my credit card was charged 11.99 for the same thing! GREAT FUN is not fun. I hope this can be cleared, its not the 12 bucks it is the principle!

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Lucy Stewart
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Nov 07, 2007 3:11 pm EST

I was billed $12.99 to my bank account because of an advertisement I never signed up for when buying my airline ticket. This spam called CHECK CARD TLG*GREAT FUN... has been charging
several people for things they never signed up for. We should file a claim!

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Lisa Link-murphy
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Nov 07, 2007 9:27 am EST

I called TLG Great Fun and have been told the source of the membership is through our own credit card companies. Mine was Household Bank. I receive cash back checks from several of my credit card companies in small amounts (under $10). I remember receiving what I thought was a cash back check for $10 and was happy that I had received one in that amount. I deposited it into my account. The lady at TLG Great Fun explained that on the bottom of these checks it states that by cashing it you are automatically enrolled in this club

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Ana vescovo
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Nov 05, 2007 12:36 pm EST

Trilegiant company has also stolen from me. I found a website with a class action lawsuit building: http://www.girardgibbs.com/trilegiant.html

I suggest that you sign up for this class action if they have stolen from you as well. I was not refunded my money and I too was offered more "deals" from the company. I wrote an email to Orbitz which is where they got me and let them know. I also, turned them into the Better Business Bureau: https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/GetStarted.aspx
I then called my credit card company CITI and told them about Trilegiant. Now I have to go through the hassle of having my card cancelled.

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D R Price
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Nov 03, 2007 7:35 pm EDT

They seem to have hit me too. I don't know who these people are either. Thank GOD I check my account everyday and this is my first time. This sucks!

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Dan
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Oct 22, 2007 4:31 pm EDT

I was scammed too! I was looking at my statement and found a charge from TLG Great Fun for a $11.99. So I called the number [protected] and spoke with a person there and she still tried to sell me on the idea. Once I insisted, coupled with the loss of patience ,and threatened them with a lawsuit ,she decided to refund the money ,to my credit card. I immediately called the fraud department and I suggested they send me a new card. They totally agreed and they are aware of TLG Great Fun NOW!

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Christopher E. Irvine
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Oct 18, 2007 7:43 am EDT

Same here!

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VM
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Oct 17, 2007 11:58 am EDT

The information in my case was given by PRICELINE.COM to Great Fun. After 30 min call, they agreed to refund in 10-15 days. But this is definitely a SCAM.

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lloyd prudhomme
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Oct 14, 2007 10:12 am EDT

That person that works for great fun should be behind bars with the rest of the crooks ...just cut up my credit card after notifying bank America about the perpetrators... I called the bank twice the first operator seemed to be none responsive to my situation ...his response was to call them for a refund .. I think he's part of the deception ...I googled tig grat fun ..that's when my blood pressure shot up to 170 /95...looking at all the complaints I knew I was had been taken for a ride .. that's why you don't use your check card for online purchases . Lucky for me I used my credit card ...s o I canceled my card and notified the fraud department .. so I'll wait for my knew card and the paper work for the fraud department!

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Stephen Lee
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Oct 13, 2007 10:51 pm EDT

I agree with everyone here except T.Jones. I don't care if you worked for them or not.

You can't tell me you haven't over looked something before. You were probably one of their customer service reps that help scam us out of our money. I just received my credit card statemnet and I have been taken for over $200.00 in September ALONE. So I don't want to hear your cr*p. Let me know when someone has gotten a hold of your credit card and charged up some bogus charges and you have no clue who they are and why they charged you. Bet I'd see you crying like a little school girl then!

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saurabh suneja
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Oct 09, 2007 10:33 am EDT

TLG Fun is a Malicious activity happening rand and the consumer forums must address this issue ASAP.

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another disappointment
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Oct 03, 2007 5:17 am EDT

I have attempted calling this company for Great Fun to cancel this $11.99 a month charge. An automated system answers and asks for membership number and other info then says, please wait while I transfer your call, then - CLICK! cutoff. I have been trying since June with no success. I found a website of an attorney that is starting a class action suit against Trilegiant for this exact reason and for having unauthorized charges in your name. I highly recommend you call this number. Girard Gibbs LLP Attorneys - [protected] or go to www.girardgibbs.com and look up the lawsuit against Trilegiant and you can fill out a form to be contacted. Lets get this company and our money back!

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Mark Johnson
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Sep 25, 2007 8:07 pm EDT

Here is CITIBANK ' s take on the matter. Called to dispute a charge on my bill. The rep on the phone immediately stated to me which charge I was disputing , TLG*Great Fun. Was told to destroy my credit card. CITIBANK is issuing a new card with a new account number and sending affidavits for me to sign as to the fraudulent charges. Would suggest to all that if CITIBANK deals with Great Fun in this manner, everyone should, before your credit card # winds up who knows where.

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T Jones
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Sep 21, 2007 2:10 pm EDT

I work for the company great fun and this is my viewpoint on the whole situation. Great Fun is not a scam, it is a discount service that some people utilize everyday. As for the people who consider it a scam, the are just too ignorent to read. A company can not just obtain a customer's info without some type of positive response. I have to hear that Great Fun is a scam. I get so sick of people threatening to call the BBB, I could care less. People should be able to pay better attention to their credit card and bank statements. As an adult I review my statements on a daily basis. If a person claims that they did not authorize a charge that has been going on for 3 or 4 years then that is just plain DUMB on your part. Reading information before you sign or submit something would clear alot of this up

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Scott Myers
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Sep 17, 2007 12:27 pm EDT

These people are scam artists plain and simple. My very simple tactic of refusing to listen to any of the spiel about discounts and whatnot, and just threatening to file complaints against them with the Better Business Bureau worked. They claim they will refund my money within 2 weeks. In the meantime, I will let Orbitz know how upset I am about this BS, and I will let all the people on my email list know about it. I suggest other people call/email Orbitz, and warn as many people as possible about this scam. We can't let these companies show such arrogance and blatant disdain for the consumer.

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Hammad Rashid
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Sep 17, 2007 11:08 am EDT

They have been secrety charging me for God knows what reason. I dont even know how they got my credit card number.

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carol lanari
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Sep 11, 2007 8:58 pm EDT

I too was scammed by this company. I"ve never used orbitz but somehow they must have access to my bank card info- I don't know how-and started charging me. I called my bank and complained, adding I have no idea who these people are. My bank put a stop payment on this charge but couldn't guarantee the $11.99 charge wouldnt go through. I have to wait until tomorrow morning to see if this bogus charge went through. If it did, I will have no problem calling my attorney to stop these M_ _ _ _ _ F _ _ _ _ _ _ _ from screwing with me. You f_ _ _ with the bull and you get the horns!

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l s
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Sep 10, 2007 12:31 pm EDT

PRICELINE.COM

I was told that I joined thru Priceline.com. Really I didn't. I let a Delta representative book another leg of a flight for me and voila...I received a charge on my card for August 2007. I plan to contact my bank and get this removed.

Goodluck all!

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Mr. Cogdell
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Sep 05, 2007 8:19 am EDT

What the Heck is going on! Why isn't there a civil action suit against these people. Like aaall these other people I got ripped off $9.99 and I think it is recurring? I would really like to get at these con artists.

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Cveta Popovic
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Aug 29, 2007 5:24 am EDT

Get this. I have the same problem and I have just been looking at their website at the terms and conditions:

3. LIABILITY (a) Trilegiant Corporation shall have no liability in regard to any services provided or to be provided, by any Vendor. You agree that any claim with regard to services shall be made against the Vendor of such services and not Trilegiant Corporation. Trilegiant Corporation's sole obligation hereunder shall be to forward to the Vendor all payments for services ordered, and to forward to you all necessary documents. (b) Trilegiant Corporation and its subsidiaries, and affiliates assume no responsibility nor liability in connection with the service of any train, vessel, carriage, aircraft, motor vehicle, or other conveyance which may be used, either wholly or in part, in connection with the services ordered, nor will any of them be responsible for any act, error, or omission, or for any injury, loss, accident, delay, or irregularity which may be occasioned by reason of any defect in any vehicle, or through the neglect of any person engaged in carrying out the purpose for which tickets or coupons are issued including, but not limited to, tour guides, vehicle operators, and hotel administration and staff. Trilegiant Corporation shall have no liability in the event any itinerary or arrangements are altered by Vendor. Any information provided by Trilegiant Corporation to you is subject to change without notice. All services ordered are subject to the availability of such services from the Vendor.

4. GOVERNING LAW; ARBITRATION This Agreement, and the respective rights and obligations of the parties hereunder, shall be governed by, and construed in accordance with, the laws of the State of Connecticut. If there is any dispute between you and GF, either of us may elect to have it resolved by proceeding in small claims court or by binding arbitration administered by the National Arbitration Forum, or the American Arbitration Association, under their rules for consumer arbitrations. All disputes in arbitration will be handled just between the named parties, and not on any representative or class basis. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS MEANS THAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE ACCESS TO A COURT OR JURY. The terms of this Section shall survive any termination, cancellation or expiration of this Agreement.

This basically means that they think they can make a contract which frees them of liability. This is of course totally insane. Right? You can't make a contract that frees you from legal responsibility.

Have any of you guys tried to contact the websites you used that signed you up for this without your knowledge? Like cheap tickets or whatever? It would seem that companies like that have a bit more at stake since their reputations mean a little more to them.

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johnny discontent
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Aug 21, 2007 6:36 pm EDT

Great fun? How about absurd discontent. Unauthorized chargers of an unwanted, seemingly invisible service! I noticed a charge for $14.99 on my check card from TLG GREAT FUN. It was posted 20 August 2007, (pending transaction), which was suspect because I hadn't used my card in about a week. I immediately called their company. No surprise when a male automated voice picked up the phone. I waited for a minute or two, and then this young man answered. To my total awe, he seemed mentally challenged. I wish I were inciting fiction to add appeal to this story, but in fact the man who claimed to be "Johnny," (I won't bother trying to pronounce his last name-it seemed too ridiculous to merit truth) was very boisterous and sloppy in the function of speech. This was after I stumbled across the complaint website mind you, so I had "scam" probing my conscious. This conversation amounted to nothing more than "Johnny" loudly telling me, a dozen times at least, "... sir you're breaking up..."-"... I can't hear you..." In a moment of frustration I asked to speak to a supervisor; I told Johnny I needed someone who spoke English. He accurately pointed out that he could in fact speak the language. At any rate "Johnny" transferred me, and after a short interlude of elevator music, Angela Jeffrey, apparently "one of the" shift supervisors, got on the phone.

After asserting there was no way an unauthorized charge could have taken place- Ms. Jeffrey claimed that "customers of sites" such as "www.deepdiscount.com, www.cheaptickets.com, and www.office.com," and ostensibly the like, opted or authorized a membership to TLG GREAT FUN. This was after I conveyed the collective grievances of many (What is this charge and why?) I also pointed out that my purchases through deepdiscount.com were made over a month ago (July 3rd.) When I asked for the reasoning behind the delayed charge, she didn't convince me anything short of fraud had taken place when she said the membership starts only after a "30 day trial period." Well, this seems to defy logic because the purchase charge from the sponsor site(deepdiscount), and supposed enrollment of membership in TLG GREAT FUN occurred 3 July. To point out that, that is in fact over thirty days is to seethe with unwarranted frustration.

Ms. Jeffrey gave me a verification number and assured the credit of $14.99 will be processed within 10-15 business days. In this vacuous age of network, it would behoove all persons who purchase from online merchants to make certain of the small print, privacy clauses, and indeed tiny checked boxes from non-apparent affiliates.

Making a legitimate complaint, i.e. BBB, might help pressurize change. I myself will take that action 15 business days from now, unless of course I am credited the $14.99 prior to that. The ethical practices of online merchants, their subsidiaries, third party affiliates, cannot at present be monitored with any real success. As always, it takes the people affected by malevolence to force a change upon the unjust actions of individuals and commercial and governmental entities- not simply for those harmed, but also for those who have been and have yet to be harmed. To do nothing is to be complicit.

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shrestha
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Aug 20, 2007 2:18 pm EDT

I was charged for several month with TLG*COMPH... and TLG*EVRDY... and finally when i looked at my account i realized that i was charged for no reason. I called this people and they are willing to refund all my money back...

Here's the contact number
[protected] TLG*COMPH...
[protected] TLG*EVRDAY...

GOOD LUCK!

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Emily Hankins
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Aug 18, 2007 7:07 am EDT

Our corporate account has been charged by Great Fun for 9.99 for over a year. As my father travels a lot, I did not question the fee because he has memberships to travel club perks, etc. I finally asked him about it 4 months ago and he said he no idea what it was. I immedaitely called great fun and told them we had never consented to their services. They said no problem and that they would cancel it immediately. They said that they would credit my account back if I mailed them a letter. I'm still waiting.

I just checked my a online account and see they took out their fee again a few days ago. I called Bank of America and they said that the fees are being debited via a check card number (probably retreived by Great Fun via Orbitz airline ticket purchase). The Bank said they could not guarantee that the stop payment would work if the debit was not actually revolving and occuring on the same day every month (which its not). I ended up cancelling the card and having a new one with a new number generated. This is such a scam.

The sad part is most of us are probably smart, business people who travel and work a lot and we all got scammed by these dirtbags. It's not like 90 year olds who have no clue what's going on. I would love to sue their ###, but when it comes down to it, there is probably some check box at the end of an Orbitz booking that you have to uncheck to not participate and we probably all missed it. I will certainly be paying more attention to online offers and travel bookings. I will not be using Orbitz again!

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MKB
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Aug 16, 2007 10:23 pm EDT

The scam is through Orbitz, confirmed by this email that I received 10 minutes ago when I called and complained. This message has been sent from Orbitz.com.

Dear Ms., good day. regarding the charges on your credit and its due to your application to the great fun membership program. if you want the charges to be stopped call Great Fun at [protected] and ask for the membership to be canceled.

London 9/12/07

Luckily I caught the 10.99 charge after only 1 month, first one was Family fun, second was Great Fun. After considering and researching options, it appears that the charges are not "reoccurring" but done each time. Best solution: cancel your credit card, like it was lost, and then instruct your credit card company to have Great Fun or what it is that day to contact you directly for billing.

I had not choice to take this route since Great Fun had no record of my membership, i.e., didn't have my name in their data banks, nor email, nothing. Seems like quite the scam. Let your friends and colleagues know about your experience and discourage them from using Orbitz or any other online booking agency that has been named.

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jagan
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Aug 15, 2007 9:33 pm EDT

TLG-GreatFun charged $11.99 to my credit card without my notice as a membership, which I never subscribed. This is totally ripoff my money by charging to my card. I called them regarding this, they are saying I subscribed to their membership after buying a air ticket from priceline.com. I never subscribed to their membership after buying ticket from priceline.com, which is totally baseless, because I am very well aware of these online predators and well educated in computer programming and online technologies. What they are saying is baseless, after fighting through phone they canceled the so-called membership. Still worrying that they will charge again. I think this is fault with priceline.com privacy policies by selling their customer card information to third parties like TLG-GreatFun without customers consent. I need to change my card with my card company to protect from this scam.

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jagan
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Aug 10, 2007 7:00 am EDT

Yes! It is probably due to Orbitz online parteners. Recently. I bought a air ticket from Orbitz.com, but I am sure I never clicked to any thing 'yes' to their extra online parteners. I never do like that. I just bought ticket and closed. But how these extra online partners (Great Fun) from Orbitz will charge orbitz customers. We need first file a law suit on Orbitz.

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jagan
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Aug 10, 2007 6:52 am EDT

I got the same problem. This month they charged me $11.99. Who these f...ers. I never used or did any business with them. How they will charge my card. This seems a online scam, stolen card numbers from somewhere else. I am going to claim this with my card company. Be care and check frequently your card statements.

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jonathan Anderson
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Aug 09, 2007 5:08 pm EDT

Well, see what your lawyer says. If he/she finds the case reasonable, and if we all could jointly file a class action lawsuit or something, you can count me in.

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Craig Keller
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Aug 08, 2007 11:37 pm EDT

I too have fallen victim to this fraudulent company who stole my Credit Card Number, but they're charging me $11.99 at random... 3 charges last month! They are f*cking with the wrong dude, I'll be calling my extremely expensive lawyer in on this one. I'm about to own this company... hmmm, I think I'll have them arrested as well.

Yeah, having them arrested sounds like a good idea too... Doing it tomorrow...

oh, I put a Digg article up about this as well, if you've been hit... Digg it.

http://digg.com/security/ONLINE_SCAM_FRAUD_ALERT_TLG_GREATFN_MAY_CHARGE_YOU_FOR_NOTHING

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