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So. Being that I live in a house with fairly hard water, but having grown up in a house that had soft water, I budgeted in the purchase of a water softener for my house this year. I did some pretty good research, looking around for a good company, with good pricing, to purchase from. After some debating, I decided to go with affordablewater.us, due in large part to their positive testimonials displayed in large number on their site.
Unfortunately, my experience ended up not being so pleasant. After detailing my thoughts/feelings about the overall experience, I’ll include the correspondence between myself and AffordableWater.
I first placed my order with AffordableWater on 3/8/2011 (way ‘early’ in the morning, like 1:30a.m.). Great pricing only $864 for a Fleck 7600sxt with 112k grain capacity. Was pretty excited to finally be getting on the way to getting soft water in my house. Received my automated confirmation right away, then, nothing… Surprisingly, no shipment confirmation with tracking information was sent. I wasn’t really overly worried about this, as the information was able to be acquired directly from their website, when they did ship the water softener.
On 3/15/2011 (pretty fast for freight shipment!) the delivery arrived. This should have been my first sign everything wasn’t going to work out. The shipping company, Dayton Freight, handled things totally unprofessionally. The driver arrived at my home with a truck that had a broken lift-gate, completely unable to off-load the delivery. The ‘blame’ for this promptly was displaced to us, the recipients of the delivery, by the driver. After he attempted to inform us that if we could not find some way to offload the shipment, it would cost us an additional $60 to have him return the next day in a truck capable of delivering to a residence. That in and of itself, is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard from someone handling a shipment, somehow we were apparently responsible for his/his company’s incompetence? Upon attempting to actually cooperate with this imbecile, and actually offload the delivery (I wanted my water softener), we discovered a box that was damaged. The damaged box contained the resin used for the filtration of the water, that actually causes the water to be ‘softened’. The box was damaged severely enough, that the bag inside (a very thin plastic, not even as thick as my garbage bags) had broken open, and the resin was spilling out into the truck. The driver had the gall to suggest that it wasn’t really a big deal, that we could ‘just get some bags and scoop up the stuff’. That idea didn’t really sit well with me, so we ended up refusing the shipment for damages. There was no way to accept a partial shipment, it was all or nothing, the driver informed us, it was simply easier in the overall scheme to deny the delivery because it was damaged.
Being rather irritated about this, I shot off an e-mail to AffordableWater to inform them of what had happened (remember, all of this will be below). I wasn’t really nice about the situation, as I was still pretty riled about the ###ic delivery guy. The first thing next morning, I received a prompt and courteous reply, apologizing for the problems, and letting me know they would get a new shipment to me right away, if that was what I wanted (I had indicated I may not). I replied back, apologizing for my prior brusqueness, and letting them know that yes, I would definitely like them to ship a replacement, and thanks for taking care of it. I also let them know the problem was not theirs, but in fact the shipping agency, as the shipment bill clearly stated it was to be delivered to a residence. I got another reply letting me know the shipment would be delivered via ups, a little later than they had hoped, because apparently one of the components was out of stock until that morning. Cool, my new softener was once again on its way!
A few days later UPS calls to schedule a delivery day/time. We got it set to be delivered on the 24th. 3/24/2011 arrives, and late afternoon the delivery arrives. My wife calls to inform me that the driver is there to deliver, but as they are preparing to off-load the delivery, the driver (this UPS guy was awesome, very professional) points out that one of the boxes appears to have some damage. Once again, it is the box containing the resin. Once again, the box is damaged severely enough the flimsy bag inside is spilling resin all over my driveway and the back of the UPS truck. My wife called me at work, to determine what should be done, after some discussion with me, and the UPS driver, it was decided that returning it for being damaged was the best way to handle the scenario again. Since we couldn’t receive a partial shipment, and I really didn’t want water softener resin spilling all over, that seemed to be the best solution.
Apparently I assumed wrong.
I dropped another e-mail to AffordableWater, expecting the situation to be handled much the way it was the first time. I let them know I had refused the shipment for damages again, and would like a replacement shipped as soon as possible.
However, disappointingly, I opened my e-mail the next morning, to read a rather curt reply informing me that my refusing the damaged shipment a second time was unacceptable, and they would be refunding my purchase. I sent them a reply e-mail letting them know my dissatisfaction with this, and that I expected the refund promptly if that was how they felt, also informing them I would be sure to make this information known.
Ultimately, I do not understand how I as a customer could have handled this differently. I paid nearly a thousand dollars for something, that I am expected to accept delivery for in a damaged state? The inadequacies on the part of the choice of shipping containers, and careful shipment handling by the carriers, is somehow my responsibility? I really dislike being treated as if this whole scenario is somehow my own fault. Perhaps if AffordableWater had somehow provided me a solution in the event something like this might happen a second time? Something like: ‘In the event that the second delivery’s resin arrives damaged, please accept the shipment and dispose/store the damaged resin in the following fashion… Contact us to let us know, and we will get a replacement shipment of resin shipped out, and a return label to return the damaged resin shipment back, so it can be retreated correctly’ etc. Nothing of this sort was mentioned at all, but somehow I was expected to know, that if I treated the second damaged shipment, identically to how I treated the first, I would be treated as a troublesome customer not worth doing business with. It’s not as if they would ultimately be liable for the shipment, as it was DAMAGED, they should be getting a refund on their shipping + the value of the damaged merchandise. Yet I was supposed to apparently, in the moment of delivery when their company was already closed for the day, clairvoyantly ‘know’ I was supposed to accept the delivery and work things out with AffordableWater ex-post-facto. Ultimately, things seem to have worked out in the best fashion possible, I learned that if I ever needed them for anything again in the future, I could not depend on them anyway. Hopefully no-one out there will get burned by them in an attempt to get some warranty help or something similar, once they’ve got your money. I know I’m happier knowing my business with them is concluded, and will not have to associate with them in the future
Here is all of the correspondence I have regarding the situation (excluding the original order confirmation) in order of sent/received:
From: Kyle Siemer
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 3:29 PM
To: '[protected]@AffordableWater.us'
Subject: Order #5491
Importance: High
The shipment arrived damaged.
The package containing the resin was broken and bags of resin had spilled out into the shipping truck. I refused the shipment for damage, I do still want the items asap, was prepared to install this weekend, I will have to reschedule some assistance.
Additionally the freight company arrived at my residence with a truck that is designed to deliver to a loading bay, and had no capability to offload the shipment.
I am incredibly unhappy with this situation, as the delivery driver was at one point attempting to encourage my wife and her friend to help unload the delivery from the back of the truck, even while recognizing that it was damaged. There was a suggestion to simply ‘get some bags’ and scoop up the spilled resin and take the shipment as well. The driver gave no issue with marking the shipment as damaged, but the whole delivery experience at this point is ridiculous.
I’m hoping to expedite a replacement shipment with this message. If a replacement cannot be quickly provided, please simply refund the transaction and I will purchase locally so as not to have to deal with the shipping company.
Sincerely,
Kyle Siemer
-----------------------
From: [protected]@affordablewater.us
Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 9:27 am
To: "Kyle Siemer"
Subject: Order #5491
Sorry for the problems! We will ship the order complete again today.
We should have specified "lift gate service" but apparently did not.
Since this ships from Ohio, it will take a few days to get to you.
We are short handed today, so if this is not acceptable to you, please call us at [protected].
Thank you
---------------------------------
From: Kyle Siemer
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:10 PM
To: '[protected]@affordablewater.us'
Subject: RE: Order #5491
That sounds great.
Sorry if my first message came across bad, I was still feeling the frustration of the moment. I realize the issue was the shipping company's, not yours. Thank you for addressing the issue so quickly.
When I arrived at home and looked into the situation further, the shipping bill clearly stated that the delivery was for residential. The driver had at one point said that if he could not somehow offload the delivery, he would have to charge US an additional $60 to return in a truck capable of offloading the delivery, when it was clearly their mistake. You may want to talk to your shipper about how they are handling your clients, at least out in this area. I personally know of several truck drivers that are out of work, and would be more than willing to take the job of that incompetent driver.
Thanks again,
Kyle
------------------------------------------
From: [protected]@affordablewater.us
Sent: Thu, March 17, 2011 11:36 am
To: "Kyle Siemer"
Subject: Order #5491
Kyle,
We shipped the original with Dayton Freight who had interlined it with another carrier and we requested lift gate service. I specified UPS Freight with our shipping department for this shipment which we are shipping today vs. yesterday (we were out of a component until this AM).
Thanks for your patience,
Dan
=====================================================
From: Kyle Siemer
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:32 PM
To: [protected]@AffordableWater.us
Subject: RE: Order #5491
Unfortunately, the shipment arrived today from UPS, damaged again. Once again, the box containing the resin looked as though it had been sat on by an elephant, the bags inside were burst and leaking beads again. My wife refused the shipment for damages again.
We would really like to get this softener, and realize the difficulties aren't yours, could you please get another replacement on the way.
Thanks,
Kyle Siemer
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: [protected]@affordablewater.us
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 8:18 AM
To: Kyle Siemer
Subject: Order #5491
We could have easily shipped the resin. Sending the tanks and control back twice doesn't get it done.
We will cancel your order and refund your money.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Kyle Siemer
Date: March 25, 2011 9:46:41 AM MDT
To: "[protected]@affordablewater.us"
Subject: Re: Order #5491
Wow. Um. The first shipping company REFUSED to do a partial delivery.
I assumed this was the best way to handle the situation the second time.
Maybe you should package your materials better.
I'll be sure to share your resolution on my site, Facebook and any other outlet I can.
I purchased with you based off of the apparently cherry-picked testimonials about you.
I'll be sure to review you in a proper fashion anywhere I can.
I expect a full refund promptly or will be issuing a chargeback.
It has not been even remotely a pleasure doing business with you,
-Kyle Siemer
-------------------------------------------------
From: Amber R
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:38 AM
To: Kyle Siemer
Subject: Affordable Water, IS Customer Refund Notification
REFUND CONFIRMATION
Order Information
Merchant:
Affordable Water, IS
Description:
Affordable Water Order_ID xxxxxxx
Invoice Number:
5035508
Customer ID:
xxxxxxx
Billing Information
Kyle Siemer
xxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Shipping Information
Total:
US $892.99
Visa
Date/Time:
25-Mar-2011 11:37:56 AM ET
Transaction ID:
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----------------------------
From: [protected]@affordablewater.us
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:14 AM
To: Kyle Siemer
Subject: Re: Order #5491
Mr. Siemer,
You should have an e-mail confirmation of your full refund today. I just refunded it about 30 minutes ago.
Thanks, AffordableWater.us
-----------------------------------------------
From: [protected]@affordablewater.us
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 1:05 PM
To: Kyle Siemer
Subject: Order #5491
Kyle,
You won't have to worry about getting involved with a charge back and the time that this takes. We do what we say we are going to do.
Our testimonials are legitimate customer responses to a followup email we send to them and not made up as you charge.
When you post on Facebook, make sure you send me a link so I can view it and respond accordingly, if you play that way.
Dan
------------------------------------------
From: Kyle Siemer
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 4:57 PM
To: '[protected]@affordablewater.us'
Subject: RE: Order #5491
Dan,
My Facebook is actually 'private' so only my friends will see it there, however the same information is posted to my site blog, and that links back to my facebook, so any comments there will reciprocate.
Once I add this last message to the end, I will be posting it. http://silvanus.darkbydesign.com/journal/affordablewater-us
Sorry things couldn't work out with us, I had a pretty good feeling about purchasing with you, and apparently that feeling was wrong.
-Kyle
http://silvanus.darkbydesign.com/journal/affordablewater-us
Interesting. I did not claim that the testimonials were falsified, I claimed that you simply picked only positive feedback. I guess it's possible you don't understand what the term cherry-picking means, or, you simply cannot read well. Also, yet again, somehow I was supposed to psychically understand that I was to accept an obviously damaged shipment. When every other company I have ever dealt with, their shipping policy on obviously damaged shipments reflects most all the others that are found in this google search. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=shipment+obviously+damaged Basically every other company I have ever dealt with when it comes to an obviously damaged shipment, has it clearly stated to refuse the shipment. Every company I have ever worked for that was the stated policy on how to deal with damaged shipments. Apparently, affordablewater.us would rather have you accept the damaged shipment, simply believing in good faith that they would not leave you stuck with a non-functional device. Given that this was my first experience with this company, I was not personally about to take that gamble. When a shipment is damaged, the shipping cost should be eaten by the carrier, if not that seems like more of a problem between the carrier and the shipper, and shouldn't involve the recipient at all. Regardless, every part of the transaction + communication about the problem is laid out in black and white, judge for yourself. My intent was simply to let others know how my situation was handled. Essentially if they were an Amazon marketplace merchant, they would have receive a 2 out of 5 stars rating. One star above minimum for the sad attempt at rectifying the first abysmal shipment. Although the extremely rough communication, essentially laying the blame for the damaged shipment at my feet, when it had absolutely nothing to do with me is about as low as it gets in my eyes.
Full refund received today, without issue.
@Bob
Yes you obviously know enough about me to begin to make deductions on potential psychological disorders I may or may not suffer from. Armchair psychology from someone who can quote Wikipedia, very impressive. You also appear to have some difficulty reading, maybe you suffer from dyslexia, or a decoding issue?
To quote you... 'the first thing that I thought is why would they refuse the shipment? Not once but twice, wow! Too self indulged to call you?'
Actually no, as mentioned later in my wife's comment, but something I had failed to mention, I did attempt to contact their customer service line both times, but being after 5pm EST which is after they are closed, I got a message informing me of this. Also, as mentioned, only after discussion with the drivers, was it decided to refuse each shipment for damages. I hadn't mentioned the specifics previously, but the driver gave the impression that this would make the shipper's damage claim process much simpler. I assumed that I was inevitably making the whole process easier.
The initial email from affordablewater did not give me any impression that I had done anything wrong, but instead implied that I had in fact handled things correctly. If I had been informed by them at any time how to handle any other potential issues, I would have been able to do it differently. Since I was not directed in another method, I handled the second shipment exactly as the first, expecting a similar response. Unfortunately that was not the case.
Reviewing this almost a year later, now being rather detached from the whole thing at this point, I still don't feel that I handled the situation incorrectly on my end. I do think that there are some things that I could have done differently on my end, maybe asked how I should handle it should the situation happen again, but it did not seem necessary at the time.
Sadly, it does not appear the affordablewater has learned from this incident, as there is still nothing on their site regarding how to handle a situation similar to mine. I hope they do not have to deal with something like this again, but if they do, I do not anticipate the outcome being too much different.
@DaveA.
Glad to hear your experience was positive. Sounds like the carriers in your area are far more professional regarding the handling of packages than they are in mine.
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Click on Rygg Cochran's name and view his history of how he deals with people. Interesting. Get a like dude.
I ordered Dowex cation softener resin from Affordable Water. It was shipped UPS and it arrived promptly as I expected.
Nobody was home so the UPS delivery person had to put box over our four(4) foot fence since gate was closed.
The resin was packaged in a very good plastic bag and box was sized perfectly for such bag. It weighed 52 pounds and was not damaged in any manner even though it must have had a bit of shock when offloaded over fence onto ground.
I am very pleased with product, packaging and UPS delivery.
I do understand that things do not always go well. It's not a perfect world.
I also purchaced two(2) filter elements and they arrived promptly in well packaged boxing. We are now placing another order and are very pleased with Affordable Water.
"God Bless America", Dave
Bob, I don't know who you are, but thank you for your comments. You must be a psychologist because you nailed it! From Dan, owner and President of AffordableWater.us
Dan,
This is not your fault. I would have done the same exact thing. You are selling top quality equipment, at very low prices. Obviously, your profit margins are very narrow. Some people expect to pay wholesale and act as though your going to continue to lose money like some big box store. They won't be happy until some shyster cracks their heads with a whopping profit, and then can afford to kiss their ### and give in to their every whim. A friend that works in the water treatment industry told me about your company. He buys a lot of equipment from you and is convinced that you are the best on prices and service. Anyway, as I was reading the Spoiled Ones complaints, the first thing that I thought is why would they refuse the shipment? Not once but twice, wow! Too self indulged to call you? What’s up with that? Then the other ### talked about suing you, or contacting the DA's office? That is absurd and without merit. Unfortunately, some people are so self indulged, inconsiderate, and disengaged from reality. They just want everything their way. What your dealing with is a couple of adult spoiled brats. The info below may explain.
Spoiled child:
A spoiled child (also called a spoiled brat) is a child that exhibits behavioral problems from overindulgence by his or her parents. Spoiled children may be described as "overindulged", "grandiose", "narcissistic" or "egocentric-regressed". There is no accepted scientific definition of what "spoiled" means, and professionals are often unwilling to use the label because it is considered vague and derogatory. Being spoiled is not recognized as a mental disorder in any of the medical manuals, such as the ICD-10 or the DSM-IV, neither is it part of the proposed revision of this manual, the DSM-5.
Consequences for later life
Spoiling in early childhood tends to create characteristic reactions that persist, fixed, into later life. These can cause significant social problems. Spoiled children may have difficulty coping with situations such as teachers refusing to grant extensions on homework assignments, playmates refusing to allow them to play with their toys and playmates refusing playdates with them, a loss in friends, failure in employment, failure with personal relationships, and girlfriends or boyfriends refusing to engage in sexual activity.
As adults, spoiled children may experience problems with anger management, professionalism, and personal relationships
Spoiled child syndrome
In 1989, Bruce McIntosh coined the term the "spoiled child syndrome". The syndrome is characterized by "excessive, self-centered, and immature behavior". It includes lack of consideration for other people, recurrent temper tantrums, an inability to handle the delay of gratification, demands for having one's own way, obstructiveness, and manipulation. McIntosh attributed the syndrome to "the failure of parents to enforce consistent, age-appropriate limits", but others, such as Aylward, note that temperament is probably a contributory factor.
Etiology
• Failure of parents to enforce consistent, age-appropriate limits.
• Parents shielding the child from normal everyday frustrations.
• Provision of excessive material gifts, even when the child has not behaved properly.
• Improper role models provided by parents.
Treatment
Treatment by a physician involves assessing parental competence, and whether the parents set limits correctly and consistently. Physicians should rule out dysfunction in the family, referring dysfunctional families for family therapy and dysfunctional parents for parenting skills training, and counsel parents in methods for modifying their child's behavior.
This doesn't look like poor customer service, but rather sour grapes. Apparently some people have too much time on their hands.
Seems that his threats regarding your "unedited email" may still be an issue. I'd still go after them. "Hand picked" does not mean you accused him or his company of falsifying testimonials. What an ignorant person! Maybe his lawyer and then your lawyer can set him straight.
As the one who actually refused both shipments I would like to say that I was told both times because it was considered one shipment I could not send only the resin back unless I paid to ship it back to you. I tried to accept only the tanks and controller both times... both times I was told I had to take all of it or none of it. Because you choose to package the resin so poorly and it gets broken open, and because you choose to send all the boxes as one shipment instead of shipping the resin separately what was I suppose to do?
1. The shipment did not show up till late in the day after three pm Utah time. I personally had no customer service number for you because I didn't put in the order my husband did. I did call at work Kyle to get the number from him, and he said you were already closed for the day. It isn't like the delivery company can wait all night for you to open the next morning for me to make a decision.
2. I have no idea what that stuff does or if it even comes in contact with the water. Because I know nothing about water softeners. Neither I or the guy dropping the shipment off had any idea what that stuff is actually composed of. As a mother I have to take into account when making my decision that I have no idea if it is safe for human or animal consumption. I don't even know if it is something that requires proper disposal. It is leaking out all over. If I keep it for a day or two while I wait to contact you and find out what to do and then implement instructions I must consider the 2 dogs and a 3 yr old that might get into it when I am not looking. As a parent I have to think of all those things before taking a leaky box of anything and leaving it sitting on my porch or in my house over night.
3. If I was to take it and then find out in order for you to replace it I need to ship it back, I would have to find a way to clean it up and package it and pay to ship it back to you. If you don't want it back in order to replace it then I still have to find a way to clean it up and dispose of it not knowing if I am able to just throw it away. There must be a better way to package this stuff so that even if the box gets knocked around it does not spill all over. Could you not ship the resin in a seprate shipment so that only the resin can be returned for damage ? Could you not have the customer pay an extra 5$ and then place the bags of resin in a good Plastic storage bin then a cardboard box knowing that a bin can take a lot more damage than a plastic bag and cardboard box alone? Either of these would seem like a much more effective shipping method. I am sure there are more ways to ship it but those are two off the top of my head that would seem likely to save you issues with other customers. Surely if both shipments had the same problem we can't be the first and only time you have had to replace resin because it was damaged during shipping. It would seem from an outside perspective, that a few extra dollars for a container that is more sturdy than a plastic bag in a cardboard box would save you much more in then end than shipping resin several till you "get lucky" and it finally makes it intact.
4. If you continue to feel like you ship the resin in the best way possible perhaps you should think about providing instructions to the customer about what to do in case part of the shipment is damaged. In my case, if you didn't like the way we handled it the first time it would seem that providing instructions, even then, about what to do if the second shipment came damaged in the same manner, would have kept me from handling it the same way the second time around. But your response did not suggest I did anything wrong by refusing it the first time. So of course, if I thought I handled it right the first time, I would handle it the same way the next time because the situation was exactly the same.
5. The only way a damaged or lost shipment costs the sender money is if you did not purchase insurance for the shipment. If you insure the shipment the shipping company pays for damages and refunds the shipping cost. That is the way any shipment I have ever sent has worked. Though it takes time to receive funds owed for an insured shipment that was damaged during shipping. In the end if the shipment was insured for its worth it would not cost you anything. Was the shipment not insured? Was it was presumptuous on my part to think anyone that ships on a regular basis would buy insurance?... I have never done business with a company that did not purchase insurance on their shipments, I therefore never occurred to me that the decision to return a shipment for "damages" would cost your company money.
There are two sides to every story and we want to share ours. We have sold quality products since 1965. In the nearly four years of selling quality products on the Internet, we have not had one customer refuse a shipment. This one refused it twice. These systems are not shipped complete, but in components. Since only one part of the shipment was damaged during shipping, it would have made sense to call us on the phone and ask our opinion on the matter rather than refusing the entire shipment. We would have re-shipped out the component that was damaged. In refusing the shipment twice, we have to pay freight from Ohio to Utah and back twice. The total of the shipping charges combined were more than the order itself. When Mr. Siemer send the first email (see above) he offered that we refund his money after the first experience. We did so after the second experience and then we have to read about this on the Internet. At least Mr. Siemer did not edit his emails including the one where he accuses us of falsifying our product testimonials. www.AffordableWater.us
“We could have easily shipped the resin. Sending the tanks and control back twice doesn’t get it done. We will cancel your order and refund your money.”
Sounds like a merry FU to me, you are a lot more professional than I think I would have been
If it breaks twice just by being shipped it sounds like you are better off without that kind of a piss poor product.
Although it is no longer 19-something and they are not ATnT, their product should arrive to you intact and 100% functional. They must know there is an issue with their resin bags, enough to send instructions on how to swap that part of the shipment out with them. Dan's email regarding "if you play that way" would anger me enough to not only report to every outlet what happened, but also file a complaint with the BBB (if they are even registered with them) as well as the local DA office, as they showed you how "they play" with two consecutive damaged deliveries. The very suggestion or threat of this companies representative that they would sue you for liable (which is what that statement amounts to virtually in my opinion) is galling as all they had to do was deliver the product properly.