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Buds Gun Shop, Kentucky Complaints & Reviews - possible fraud?

Buds Gun Shop Contacts & Informations

Buds Gun Shop

Posted:    fornboglod

possible fraud?

Complaint Rating:  87 % with 233 votes
Contact information:
Budsgunshop.com
Kentucky
United States
Ordered a Taurus 845 that was advertised on Budsgunshop.com as "factory new." The pistol was promptly shipped, and was sent in its Taurus box with all the proper papers and accessories. Upon receiving at my FFL I noticed the gun was quite dirty, with powder residue. The FFL agent immediately commented that he thought this was a used gun. I noticed the pistol also had a defective magazine release. Went home and took gun apart to examine closer. Noticed alot more smut and residue than should be in a "factory new" pistol that supposedly has only been test fired 12 times. Based on my experience this gun had several hundred rounds through it. Also noticed scrapes in the slide, divots in the metal in the slide rails. Went ahead and cleaned it, went to range and fired a few boxes of quality ammo. Had constant failures to feed. Called up Taurus, the rep was helpful and informed me the gun had been sold by them to the gun dealer in 3/09. That meant this gun had been laying around? used as a range gun? used as a demo? for 8 months before I bought it. Taurus was very good about taking the gun back and are currently deciding to repair or just send me a new replacement. I cannot confirm, because there is no way to do so, but I STRONGLY suspect this gun was used as a range gun or demo for 8 months, hastily wiped off and shipped to me as a "factory new" pistol. Based on this I would hesitate for anyone to buy a gun from Budsgunshop.com if you cannot inspect it first. Unlike Davidsons, Buds does not offer a replacement guarantee, you have to use the manufacturers warranty. This means I will be without my "factory new" pistol until Taurus takes care of it. Budsgunshop.com is highly suspect for selling used as new in my experience.


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 22nd of Nov, 2009 by   budsgunshop.com 0 Votes
We have NEVER sold a used gun as new, not one, not ever...period. You are making slanderous and completely false assumptions based on zero facts. Let's break this down.

#1 We can most certainly track the serial number of the gun from manufacture, to distribution, to our own inventory, to your chosen FFL, to you...the ATF makes sure of that ! Therefore, we can prove the history of the gun if you are willing to step out from behind this anonymous forum crap and tell us who you are and the serial number of the gun.

# 2 I would have to assume Taurus sent the gun to a distributor, not a dealer, back in 3/09. As we get our Taurus from distribution, it was not sent directly to us from Taurus in the first place.

# 3 Our policy is, and always has been, the customer has the right to refuse to accept the transfer of any firearm FOR ANY REASON and we will provide THEIR CHOICE of either a full refund or a new replacement...which includes all return/exchange shipping cost. You confirmed in your original post you saw things you did not like about the gun before taking it home...so WHY take it home ?!

You keep making references to "based on your experience"...well sir, I cannot speak for your experiences with other gun stores, but when you buy a new gun from www.budsgunshop.com...you get a NEW GUN !

Stop assuming and pick up the phone, or send an email, with your serial number and we will provide you with the documentation to prove the status of this gun. We can prove when we received the gun from distribution and when the gun was shipped back out to your FFL...and I'm betting it was not in our possession more than two weeks.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod 0 Votes
This gun was fired more than a couple times, more like in the hundreds, but my inference about Buds knowing it was used is retracted. Somewhere along the line this gun was used and abused, that is for sure. In the meantime my statement that unseen online purchases should be avoided stands, with no inference positive or negative towards Buds guns.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -2 Votes
PS: I did try to call Buds gun shop the day I received it, got the voicemail shuffle, ended up leaving a message with somebodies voicemail, nobody called back. I did email them and they responded to that. Also, just to be perfectly clear, although this gun may not have ever been TRANSFERRED before, which would have made it TECHNICALLY used, it most certainly was USED, more than just test fired. By whom, when and where, well, thats where things get murky, right? Its just a crummy experience all the way around.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   phirefli 0 Votes
Based on "budsgunshop.com" response to this posting I would never purchase a weapon from his company.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod 0 Votes
Buds responded to my email by saying, in effect, I am an idiot for accepting the gun in the first place. They then followed that condescending remark by saying they "make mistakes sometimes, " but since they feel "slandered" by the posts on here they have no sympathy for me at all. Of course, the fact they dont return phone calls and only respond defensively pointing fingers at everybody else (like they accuse me of doing) speaks volumes. Whereever the fault lies, Taurus, distributor, Buds, Buds was the last one in line who sold the firearm. I am just relaying my experience with this company. Keep hiding behind your "policies" but Buds knows that many transfers are done without being able to check a gun out. Falling back on their policy that you can not transfer the gun if you dont like it is as lame as what they accuse me of. Maybe if they picked up the phone and returned calls people in my unfortunate circmstance (getting a defective USED gun) would not vent on internet forums. Food for thought, Buds.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   budsgunshop.com +1 Votes
Nothing to hide here...here is my actual email to the customer for all to see>>>>

We take a lot of pride in what we do...and sure, we get defensive when somebody wrongly and publicly accuses us. Imagine if somebody posted on a forum that you were a homosexual or a child molestor...would you not get defensive ? The unfortunate side of internet sales is it takes the personal side out of the transaction...where people do and say things they would not normally do if face to face with the people they were doing business with.
I honestly do not think you would walk in our store and say...

"I cannot confirm, because there is no way to do so, but I STRONGLY suspect this gun was used as a range gun or demo for 8 months, hastily wiped off and shipped to me as a "factory new" pistol. Based on this I would hesitate for anyone to buy a gun from Budsgunshop.com if you cannot inspect it first. Unlike Davidsons, Buds does not offer a replacement guarantee, you have to use the manufacturers warranty. Budsgunshop.com is highly suspect for selling used as new in my experience."

It would go something more like this...

Hey guys, I just got this gun from you and I am really not at all happy with the condition...what can we do about this ?

Same issue with very different results...but we never even got the chance as you went straight to the forums with all this crap.

Saying "Buds does not offer a replacement guarantee"...since when ? Do you realize that there are people out there who will actually read this crap and believe it (like you) without ever going to the website to see the return policy. Sure we offer full refunds, sure we offer replacements, its printed right there on the website and we even make it pop up in front of you during checkout...but we can't make you read it !
Just very, very unfair.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -2 Votes
Say what you want, your own staff admitted that gun was kicking around in your store for the last 7 months. Thats an awful long time in a hot gun market. IMHO its entirely theoretcially possible that gun was a demo. Since you want to keep this discussion rolling, do you have a shooting range on site at your stores? Who has access to the guns in your store? What type of quality control procedures to you have in place for online sales? You guys have all the tact and customer service skills of a pit bull on meth. Keep attacking the customer, it shows what you would be like in person. Start returning calls and try to understand why somebody would be upset getting a beat up broken gun, before calling them out as idiots and liars. You guys are a real class act. Did you learn your CSR skills at Enron?
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -4 Votes
PS: that supposed "email for all the world you see" above was never received by me, however, I did receive this one below from Rex:

"Go ahead and spread your experience (= lies and false accusations). I have the facts documented here at the office...and will gladly scan and email you anything you would care to see as far as the history on this gun...but you probably don't even care to see those...much more fun to make up b.s.

Who here advised you to buy that particular make and model Taurus ?...exactly, you picked the gun you wanted and we just shipped you exactly what you asked for...your beef is with Taurus and they will most likely make it right. We don't build, shoot, clean, etc. any of these guns...they come in boxes...they leave in boxes...what you like or dislike once you open the box is between you and Tuarus. If you don't like it...DON'T TAKE IT HOME !...then we are able to help you...full refund, exchange, etc.

I do know "damn well some people do transfers without being able to check everything out on site"...but you said...

/"I picked it up at 6pm when the pawn shop was
closing. Just looking at it the pawn shop owner who
has 20 years experience said "thats a used gun"

/WHOA...STOP RIGHT THERE !!! Just refuse the transfer and all this stops right there...you get a full refund, new gun, different gun...completely YOUR CHOICE."

Based on Mr. Rex's email above, once you take it home all it's problems are yours. Therefore your comment that you do indeed have a full replacement warranty akin to Davidson's is contrary to what was posted in the above email. Keep em coming!
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   budsgunshop.com -1 Votes
I spoke to Derek this morning and he confirmed that we stock a lot of this particular model and your gun was simply pulled at random from a shelf of new guns. We do not have a shooting range at our store in Lexington, where your gun was inventoried and shipped from. We do not open and inspect any of the new guns, which is just one major reason why we have the policy to allow customers to refuse to accept any firearm upon inspection at their chosen FFL dealer. Another reason we do not open the guns is for our own internal control, we do not allow employee's in the processing and shipping areas to handle the guns. Issues such as missing magazines and other undesirable issues can occur when too many people get involved in handling the guns.

If you are still saying that we knowingly sold you a used gun as new...then yes, you are in fact a liar. As for the idiot issue...that would only be an assumption on my part, and you have already made more than enough of those for both of us.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -1 Votes
Like I said, real class act you guys are. If seeing this complaint got you so fired up you could have just said "wow, sorry you got a bad gun from us, we would be happy to refund your money, let us know whatever we can do, we want you to be happy."

You could have shown how you guys are above such antics, and how you defuse bad situations and make bad press good.

Nope. You turned your knob up to fullblown redneck denial bluster mode.

Glad you "checked" with one of your own staff, that is definitely proof positive things happened like you say. Right.

Once again, thanks for affirming my initial complaint about your company and your CSR skills.

Call me some more names, it looks good here on the internet for all the world to see.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   Splank +3 Votes
I have purchased a couple pistols from Bud's Gunshop. Both were Taurus brand. The Taurus PT92 semi-auto pistol I ordered was received in similar condition; dirty and with the appearance of being used more assumed for "new". I too called Taurus and they overwhelmed me with customer service options, so I never felt it necessary to call Bud's. Taurus does test fire these pistols. Sometime a lot in order to make sure they work well. In the case of my pistol, it shot inconsistent with different ammo. I sent the gun back to them for their opinion. Within a month, it came back with a new barrel with the gunsmith's initials on it. The gun now shoots amazingly well no matter what ammo used. So, my recommendation is to be far more picky aboout what gun you buy rather than who (Bud's) you buy from. Bud's is a high volume reputation based seller who always trys to maintain the lowest prices. They will do what can be done to make you happy, though they are not Nordstroms. Sometimes the best solution is to upgrade the choice of brands or better, do some research and know what to expect. In my own case, I learned that a little patience went a long way in the eventual goal of a target pistol for under $350.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -2 Votes
I fully understand Buds did not build the pistol, and that Taurus will back it up. I never asked Buds for a refund, I asked if they would offer one, but had no intention of demanding my money back from them.

Perhaps if Buds had responded in a less hostile manner I would have been able to post how helpful they are.

I purchased a gun from them that has wear and fouling beyond test firing.

Buds proceeded to point fingers and call me names after my initial report.

Their conduct here indicates they are not trust worthy or reputable or professional IMHO.

I fully admit to being an idiot for buying a gun from this company.

Please do not be an idiot like me.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   budsgunshop.com +1 Votes
You started the name calling...I just made the mistake of lowering myself to your level. I am done, if anyone has any concerns about this transaction, or any transaction, related to www.budsgunshop.com then just send those directly to me at rex@budsgunshop.com
I will gladly share with you documentation (not opinions or assumptions) to ease your concerns, we have nothing to hide. We have a great group of people who take a lot of pride in what we do...and we (obvioulsy) wear our heart on our sleeve.

Last word from me is advice to any prospective Buds customers. If you buy a gun from Buds online, take your time and look over the gun at your transferring FFL just as you would if you were buying it from any gun store. If you see ANYTHING you don't like...color of the wood, fingerprints, scratch on the outside of the box, etc...just leave it with your FFL and we will have it picked up on our UPS account and brought back to us. You get your choice of a full refund (no restock charges) or a replacement gun (when available). We also pay for all the shipping on the replacement gun. In the very rare event you accept a transfer and take a gun home, or to the range, to find a defect or malfunction...just call or email us and we will work with you to make it right. Please just don't assume the worst without first giving us the opportunity to help you...just making a bad situation even worse.

This guy gets the last word...as their is no end to the amount of false accusations that he can dream up...and leave me to defend...just a complete waste of time.
 23rd of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -2 Votes
Just to be clear, Buds Gun Shop in the post above states he will provide my confidential FFL information to anyone who emails and asks for it. How many laws is this a violation of?

All potential Buds Gun Shop customers should be aware that your personal info is not safe with Buds Gun Shop, based on their own statements, reprinted below

"You started the name calling...I just made the mistake of lowering myself to your level. I am done, if anyone has any concerns about this transaction, or any transaction, related to www.budsgunshop.com then just send those directly to me at rex@budsgunshop.com
I will gladly share with you documentation (not opinions or assumptions) to ease your concerns, we have nothing to hide. We have a great group of people who take a lot of pride in what we do...and we (obvioulsy) wear our heart on our sleeve."

I am sure the shooting world will be glad to know that any customer you have problems with will have his personal info disseminated by Buds.

What's next Buds, personal threats?
 24th of Nov, 2009 by   budsgunshop.com +1 Votes
More ridiculously false assumptions...

DOCUMENTATION = Our Purchase Order to the Distributor, Our Packing List, Our Invoice, UPS ship log, Firearms log, etc, etc. ...NONE of these show the customers info, rather a traceable history of the gun back to the date of manufacture...which is what is at issue here.

As you can all see for yourself by reading above...I say the word "documentation" and he jumps directly to "my confidential FFL information"...this person has some serious paranoia issues...which I am beginning to understand is how we got to this point in the first place !
 24th of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -3 Votes
More lies and libel by Buds Gun Shop. They even lie about giving me the last word! There is no end to the lies and libel these characters will go to cover their shenanigans.

A reasonable person would read this sentence "...any concerns about THIS transaction, or any transaction, ...send those directly to me...I WILL GLADY SHARE WITH YOU DOCUMENTATION (NOT OPINIONS OR ASSUMPTIONS) TO EASE YOUR CONCERNS, WE HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE." and infer that you will release DOCUMENTS pertaining to MY transaction to anyone who asks.

That is the kind of dirty lowdown veiled intimidation tactics Buds Gun Shop uses to attempt to silence unhappy customers.

If you continue with your libelous statements, there will be repercussions. Liar, paranoid, idiot... you people seem to enjoy casting aspersions that you falsely claim you are victim of.

PS: another shady half truth you posted further above, "We do not have a shooting range at our store in Lexington, where your gun was inventoried and shipped from."

You neglected to mention there is a pistol range at your other Buds Gun Shop location. A pistol range where maybe demo guns are used, then brought to the other location to be sold online? Of course details like that are conveniently left out of your vicious diatribe.

Half truths, personal attacks, out and out lies.

Is this the kind of company that deserves to be patronized?

One can only speculate how many customers are like the other Taurus purchaser above, who had problems with a firearm but let Taurus handle it without even calling you. Or how many felt duped but were too embarrassed to air their frustrations.

Read all this and decide for yourself, google Buds Gun Shop, use due diligence, which unfortunately I did not do before using Buds Gun shop!
 24th of Nov, 2009 by   budsgunshop.com +1 Votes
The Buds Gun Shop store and Range in Paris, KY has absolutley NO common ownership with the Budsgunshop.com and Buds Police Supply store in Lexington, KY. That store in Paris was sold outright to a man in Chicago in April of 2008. It would be a complete violation of ATF rules to remove any firearms from the Lexington store, a licensed FFL location, and take to a different store/FFL licensed location in Paris, KY without documenting it in the ATF gunbook ...which was the documentation I was offering earlier to show that this has never been done with your gun (or any gun for that matter).

More erroneous assumptions and false accusations...call the Paris store at 859-987-8261 and ask them for yourself.

If you took more time to actually do the research and find out the facts before you assume...you would find that 99% of your problems are really not problems at all...just false assumptions.
 24th of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -2 Votes
Maybe you should spend less time on the internet trying to spin things and more time attending to business making things right. Ever hear the expression "the customer is always right?" Your business must be very slow if you have all day for this. Rightfully so.

"This guy gets the last word...as their is no end to the amount of false accusations that he can dream up...and leave me to defend...just a complete waste of time."

Well? Or are you a liar?
 24th of Nov, 2009 by   budsgunshop.com +1 Votes
I WAS absolutely done on the "new vs. used issue"...then you started a whole new series of false accusations dealing with us sharing people's private information...another very serious and very false accusation which I have shared with our legal counsel.

You are entitled to your opinions and to express them wherever and h0wever you like...but blatantly false accusations that can harm someones reputation or livelihood is not a civil liberty.

You could have started this thread simply by saying you were not at all satisfied with the condition of your Taurus and nobody (surely not me anyway) could argue that with you...as it would be your honest opinion. However, the title of this complaint is "possible fraud" ?...followed by your "experience" to support how we conspired to sell you a used gun as new, and advising people not to buy from us...which is false, hurtful, and what prompted my campaign to disprove your claims.

I have no doubts you are not happy with your gun...which could have been easily rectified in the first 5 minutes that you made the decision not to be satisfied. We ship 200 firearms to all 50 states every day...you can't honestly think you are the first person not to be satisfied with their new gun ? Derek is our dedicated returns/exchange person, and I read his very cordial email to you early in this transaction attempting to assist you given the situation you had placed yourself in by accepting transfer of the gun...he said nothing rude or out of line to cause you to proceed to attack us on these forums...he was only trying to help you.

This has never been about money to me, as we (and actually everybody in the gun business in the past year !) are admittedly not hurting for money. This is about what is right and wrong...and you have yet to point out anything we actually did wrong...just false assumptions about what you think we did wrong.
 24th of Nov, 2009 by   fornboglod -2 Votes
Thanks for proving your are a liar.

In my belief there may be POSSIBLE fraud. My First Amendment right to relay my beliefs and observations are clearly established.

This is interstate and serious business.

Your veiled threats to provide documents related to my transaction with you are unequivacable and clearly stated.

I look forward to federal civil proceedings and the discovery process to get to the bottom of this.

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