Home Loans Think Cash Deceptive business practices!

Think Cash review: Deceptive business practices!

Author of the complaint
12:00 am EDT
Featured review
This review was chosen algorithmically as the most valued customer feedback.

I took out a $2,000 loan from "Think Cash" - an on-line loan business. Part of their agreement is that they send you e-mail reminders of when payments are due. For the first two months they did. I have reimbursed them ON TIME.

They recently STOPPED sending reminders... as they agreed... and money is taken from the account. They are not reliable and it has cost me more money than I ever expected. DO NOT utilize THINK CASH.


More Think Cash complaints & reviews

Think Cash - bad business
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Think Cash - Billing Practices
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Think Cash - Suspicious phone call
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Think Cash - Harassing call on my job
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Think Cash - Usuary
The complaint has been investigated and resolved to the customer’s satisfaction.
Add a comment
Feb 07, 2011 1:31 pm EST

I took out a 800.00 loan, so far I have made 4 payments totaling $486.00, this has reduced my principal by 46.00, if I paid all the way to term this 800.00 loan will cost 2200.00 to pay back... do not use this company, their testimonials are bogus, how can someone be happy that they are getting totally ripped off, this is guido in sheeps clothing.

This type of loan must be illegal, I can't imagine that chaging 2200% interest can be legal in any state. This is not hard money its rock money.

Mar 12, 2011 5:32 am EST

I absolutely LOVE thinkcash specially when you need money and cant get a line of credit or personal loan due to bankruptcy. They are the most honest company I know. It takes approximately 2 to 4 days for payments to come out of my account and they dont keep charging you interest when paying off the loan during those waiting days. They are honest when it comes to letting you pay off your loan when you want. I had a loan with cashcall and I HATE THEM they claimed they never recieved my check to payoff all the while charging me interest I had to actually call my bank and have them put on an unauthorized withdraw list causing more money to be spent. It was a hassle paying them calling them EVERYTHING. Thinkcash is quick easy you can make payments when ever you want online.

Mar 01, 2011 12:31 pm EST

I have had 2 loans with thinkcash. Not only can you print out your payment dates when you receive the loan, but you can print them out anytime there after. 24/7 you can view your information online. If you forgot your password, it is very easy to obtain. If you have a problem making a payment, they will help you. You can make extra payments anytime you want or pay off. You can choose anyday you want for the payoff . If you go in to set up payoff for today, you stop paying interest today. There is no penalty for paying off early. They actually recomment it with every email. They have never missed one email. Each email tells you what they are taking out, when they are taking it out, and what the payoff balance is. They report to major credit bureaus and they give loans to people who normally would not be able to obtain any type of loan other than a payday loan. Unlike a payday loan, you have options as to how much time you want to pay the loan off. As far as the prices, they are by far cheaper than any payday loan. They aren't unreasonable at all. Of course, I'm sure if you have excellent credit you can find a better rate, but if the case is that you have excellent credit, why aren't you applying to your local bank or comparing loan rates online? Think cash is the best thing I have ever come across and they really helped me when I needed it. It seems very odd to me that two people could have completely opposite experiences. The system automatically sends the email, so why would it send it consistently to mine, but not someone else. The rates are all listed when you accept the loan and after and they show what is being applied to the balance and what is being used towards interest. I never ever had them take out a payment on an inaccurate date or for an inaccurate amount. I'm thinking this complaint may be missing some details, such as possibly not making a payment on time and not taking the time to make arrangements beforehand, therefore causing a fee. The site gives advice for credit solutions and without even having to apply, it states the consequences involved with not making payments on time. It explains the fees that would be charged from thinkcash, but also from the applicants bank, noting how much could be lost for not making payments on time. Think Cash is the best! The complaint posted is without a doubt a misrepresentation of the company and in my opinion based on the service I received completely fraudulent. Freedom of speech allowed this warped complaint to be posted and freedom of speech allows me to say the individual who posted the complaint is FULL OF...

Feb 23, 2011 11:41 pm EST

its your responsibilty to know whenyour payment is due mark it on a calendar or your hand bills that are due thats not hard

Feb 23, 2011 11:34 pm EST


Feb 23, 2011 11:31 pm EST

its your responibility to know when your payments will be deducted from your account write it on a calendar or your hand do yyou do the same with other bills larry s

Feb 13, 2011 2:34 am EST

Think Cash is NOT a payday loan company. I called yesterday to inquire on my loan and asked if they were a payday loan company or a short term loan company. Payday loan companies typically do not run your credit reports. Think Cash uses Bank of Delaware as their bank for their customers loans. I've used them in the past and have always paid my loans back in full on payday. They are set up for you to borrow the money and pay in back as quickly as possible to avoid paying high interest. We have paid back about 700.00 in interest to them for one of our loans. When our payment is due they always send a reminder the day before in our inbox saying that tomorrow the payment is due.

Feb 13, 2011 2:22 am EST

Their testamonials are not bogus. If you pay the loan in full when your payday comes you'll hardly have much interest to pay back. The people that talk in the videos all have paid back the loans on their next payday I'm sure. They are NOT a payday loan company but a short term loan company. I've used them in the past as they have bailed me out. Now I've taken out loans from them that I wasn't able to payback right away and now I'm paying for that. I agree though I will stop using them from this point on.

Feb 11, 2011 11:02 am EST

I took out a loan with think ash and was threate several time by a proton concdulting service which threaten to ock me up and have me arrested gave me so much stress i wanrted to commit suscide they kept calling my job afer i ask them not to thyun my telphone in the ground please if you don't have t used this company please don't lifeas you knowwill get better wthout threat. god i pray these people won 't one day have to use these compny. i agree this company is horrible my payment was never posted to my account so i ask where is my payment never used this company

Dec 06, 2010 5:03 pm EST

I have a loan with them and totally agree with the outrageous interest rates, but when you are in dire need, sometimes you have no otther options, and they know that. hence, the ability to charge the rates they charge. Are people stupid and [censor]ic for taking out the loan? Not at all. Should we get reminders about payments? Not at all. You took out the loan, you should know when your payment is due to be taken from your account. Will I use the service again? Not if I can help it.

Nov 30, 2010 3:18 am EST

First of all I don't understand what the problem is. They do take it fromyour account each time you are paid plus send a reminder. Please explain to me how they did you wrong. I have taken out two loans with them and have never had a problem.

Nov 11, 2010 1:08 am EST
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

now days everyone is out for money loan companies, payday loans, electric companies etc. people in big corporation is as desperate as the poor people out here. watch your back because every one is trying to scam you out of your money, the virginia lottery is the same way. its a no win situation now. do what you have to do to survive, but the consequences are deadly. remember everyone is looking out for number one themselves, and will take you to the bank.

Oct 19, 2010 1:09 pm EDT

I personally take offense at someone saying I have bad credit because I don't pay my bills.
There are many things that cause someone to have bad credit. For example: Your spouse having a major heart attack and not having insurance. We are still trying to dig out of that one.
So yes I have bad credit and no a bank is not going to give me a regular loan. But that does not mean I don't pay my bills. It just means I struggle from pay check to pay check to pay those damn bills.

Oct 02, 2010 4:21 pm EDT

btw, the person who posted the ORIGINAL post is a female.

Oct 02, 2010 4:05 pm EDT

first off, i dont know WHY yall are calling him a [censor], [censor] etc... its NOT that serious, yall act like yall work for that company or something . if its not what he expected then SO BE IT, thats his issue. If you dont like what he is saying, then oh well, it has nothing to do with you . RELAX.

Aug 28, 2010 12:14 pm EDT

So you're mad at a company who extended you credit because they didn't remind you to repay your debt? Grow up.

Aug 03, 2010 1:01 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

It has become leagal to steal from people just as long as they agree to be robbed.

View 0 more photos
Aug 03, 2010 12:27 pm EDT

Anyone that gets a loan from ThinkCash is stupid. They offer Annual Percentage Rates for first time loans from 199% to 324% (yes one hundred ninety nine to three hundred twenty four), based on loan amount. And you can receive Annual Percentage Rates as low as 99% on subsequent loans. Anyone that uses ThinkCash is a total [censor]. You will throw away more money than you borrow. Ex. The APR for a loan of $700.00 is 324.11% with 12 bi-weekly payments of $115.45. This means that you will pay $1385.40 in total, $685.40 in interest alone. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is not a good deal and is a total waste of money.

Jul 29, 2010 2:29 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Depends on what you consider legitimate . I don't do any business with anyone that wants to draft my checking account or charge me over 30%.

Jul 29, 2010 2:00 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

I dont have a complaint nor anything negative to say about anyone else's comments but my question is, is this a LEGIT place to get a loan?

I applied for a 800.00 loan. And "FBD''said I had to send documents. So I Fax them to ''FBD" FRIDAY that just past 7-16-10 so wheres my money it should have been put in my bank account on 7-19-10 THANK YOU Charles W. Hoff

Apr 13, 2010 11:58 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

If all I thought about was myself... I would simply say get rid of all the laws and let everyone fend for themselves. I would actually rather park my butt somewhere and fend for myself. Hang out at home with my shot gun, solar panels on the roof, plant my own food. If someone is hungry so be it. If someone gets robbed, it's not my problem. Who cares if my neighbor is beating his elderly mom. Little kid get bit by a dog, who cares. I could care less if that lighter is child proof. So what if the guy drops the glass jar with the gas in it, it's just not my problem. But I'm not like that. I have to open the door for the little old lady.

Just because I am smart enough not to be sucked into anything that does not help me or does nothing for me does not mean I should just let others do it. Should we let the little kid touch the hot stove. Heck, he will only do it once. Most that get sucked into the pay day loan thing only do it once.

There are laws that restrict us, and laws that protect us. I will be the first to say I am against laws the restrict us, but the laws that protect are good. Some may even say there is a fine line between both of them.

Apr 13, 2010 11:13 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

What I did with the stained glass is what pawn shops do all the time and make money doing it. I actually wanted the stained glass and told him I would be happy if he didn't pay me back. And if he did pay me back, that's cool too. If I wanted to, I could sell the glass and make a profit also. I still have the glass I got from him nearly 10 years ago.

Pawn shops do what pay day loans do. You just don't get stuck in a trap you can't get out of. People should be allowed to walk away from a loan if the lender can still make money. And once again that's how pawn shops work.

In the 70s if you wrote a check for money you did not have in the bank, you broke the law.

I found one reason why there are some places these places are still allowed to operate.

( A report last year by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a nonpartisan watchdog group, found that the payday industry increased spending on lobbying to $2.1 million in 2008, from $730, 000 in 2005. ) here is the whole story.

Apr 13, 2010 10:41 pm EDT

"I would be in favor of some kind of limit that would allow people to walk away and owe nothing at some point in time" translates to "I would be in favor of prohibiting adults from taking out loans at terms they fully agree to".

Please stop citing all the many paternalistic laws that were intended to "protect people from themselves" and yet had the effect of chipping away at our liberty one word at a time. I do not agree with all those laws, so their existence is useless as a counterargument. I don't agree with any paternalistic laws. I think adults should be allowed to do whatever they want, provided it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

You are opposed to seatbelt laws and laws banning tobacco, and yet you are okay with laws about pumping gas and laws about consensual financial contracts. It sounds like you are only in favor of the paternalistic laws which wouldn't inconvenience you and your lifestyle. Or perhaps you're only in favor of undermining the freedom of 'uneducated' people—a bit discriminatory, don't you think?

Apr 13, 2010 10:23 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

I would be in favor of some kind of limit that would allow people to walk away and owe nothing at some point in time. Maybe after they pay 3 times the amount of the original loan, the contract would end. Also requiring the one that borrowed the money to pay at least 20% of the loan amount every time. Not just the interest and keep owing the same amount every time.

Credit card companies have regulations and guidelines. Insurance companies have limits, the banking industry itself can't just do anything it wants. There are thousands of laws on the books to protect people. You can't use a glass jar to get gas for your lawn mower. I have always been in favor of laws that protect people that may not be educated enough to know better.

Apr 13, 2010 10:02 pm EDT

1. I'm not going to take on the duty of explaining to you why inflation is bad. It shouldn't be that hard for you to figure out. That's for another forum.

2. Regarding the poor guy you read about last night: why did he take out a loan if he couldn't pay it back? He was foolish to take out the loan in the first place. That's on him. The fact that he was irresponsible with his money doesn't give YOU the right to prevent other, more responsible people from taking out the same loan.

3. You speak about the market as if you have some vague, broken memory of high school economics—yes, you are correct: the market sets the price of gas. It also sets the price (interest rate) of payday loans. Just like gas, the price fluctuates over time and distance, but there is a market price. Around here, I believe that market price was around $10 for $100 borrowed over a two-week period. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. And yes, the market does set a price—otherwise, why wouldn't store #2 charge $20 for $100 borrowed? Because they would lose all their business to store #1!

When there is a limit placed on any price by the government, however, that's called a price ceiling. It interrupts the economy and slows things down. It creates inefficiency in the system and a shortage of goods (or in this case, capital) because demand at that price is too high and supply at that price is too low. That's what has happened in those states where interest floors have been implemented. There is a demand for loans that do not exist. Yes, a couple places stay in business—but not enough to fulfill the demand.

What happens when demand exceeds supply and the market price can't be found? Black markets are created for the product in question. Loan sharks who fly under the radar can charge the market price without answering to anyone.

4. You ask why it should be legal to take advantage of anybody. Let me tell you what my opinion is: I think that, in a free society of adults, it should be legal to do ANYTHING that doesn't infringe on the rights of others. Why should it be legal to take advantage of people? Because people are allowing themselves to be taken advantage of. It's a matter of their freedoms too. I think everyone should be free to fail in the same way that they are free to succeed. That's freedom. That's how it works.

5. You claim that people should be able to 'walk away' from a loan. Ridiculous! That would be terrible for society! People would take out loans for everything, and then walk away. As it is now, people take excessive risks because our statist society has provided bankruptcy legislation "to protect people from themselves". Everyone loses. Look at this economic mess we're in now. Businesses take excessive risks in the same way, because our statist society has allowed for LLCs and corporations.

6. Regarding the stained glass… so let me get this straight: Now you have somebody else's stained glass and you are short some money. You probably would feel bad to sell the stained glass. Your friend got free money! How did you not lose in that situation? You did it to help out a friend, I understand. But how can you demand that businesses do that for complete strangers? That's absurd!

7. You state that if you set limits people will be forced to look for other options. The key word here is 'force'. In a free society, nobody should be forced to do anything.

Apr 13, 2010 6:47 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

The only difference between the 70s and now is more companies taking advantage of people. Yes there is inflation and things cost more now. But I make more now to and inflation is not really an issue. People that do buy here pay here cars, and payday loans will never get ahead. I have a neighbor that spends more on transportation than I do and most of the time she don't have a car because someone took it back.

While doing a little research last night I found this one guy that got a 200.00 payday loan and 3 years later they were still taking 40.00 out of his checking account every two weeks. So you would have everyone to believe that charging someone 2800.00 for a 200.00 loan is alright. The guy never had the extra cash to pay off the original 200.00. Most of these place know that and are more than willing to keep the loan open. These are the people they target. I even saw one place online that was advising people on taking a vacation using a pay day loan.

I think if there was one or two in the area charging 35% they could survive. They may have to offer other things or products but they would survive. Now I will be the first to admit the 12 or 14 in the same neighborhood might fold. That is the way it is now, its so profitable there is one on every corner in some areas. Once you are in a situation where you are in poverty with places like this you will never get out.

If you own a business and can't make a profit you get out. Yes the profit margin at gas stations is tight, you do what you need to do to keep the business alive. A gas station can't charge 50 cents more for gas than the other guy. The market sets the price they can charge. There are limits in place for everything, why not payday loan places. When it comes to these places the market will never set a limit on them. I guess you could say the market may have set a limit but for a few... they are desperate and do it anyway. These people need protection in my opinion. Why should it be legal to take advantage of people.

There are some states that have already set limits. There is nothing anyone can say or do to make me think any different than I do. You need to be able to walk away from a loan, at a pawn shop you can. There are options other than these places. I had a neighbor that got in a jam. He wanted to borrow money from me. He offered me something to hold till he paid me back. It was about 600.00 worth of stained glass that he really didn't want to part with. Yes I still have the glass and he was helped out. The point is he didn't pay 2800.00 for that 200.00 loan.

If you set limits people will be forced to look for other options.

Apr 13, 2010 5:55 pm EDT

Well... I need a loan.
As for all the banter above, sorry but... Michael's arguments win.
These people knowingly entered into an agreement that was clearly fully disclosed to them beforehand.
These businesses have every right to make a profit.
The argument about the percentage rates don't hold water because these are not meant to be long term loans. Those loans are offered by mainstream institutions (the real crooks, btw - $35.00 NSF charge for having $4.00 less in my account than the check was for, then several more NSF charges in colatteral damage).
These are SHORT TERM loans for people who need quick cash and have less than acceptible credit.
I'm one of them.
Maybe the difference is I do a little research before hand, which is why I'm here and have read every post in this forum.
Information isn't that hard to come by, ya know.

Apr 13, 2010 9:19 am EDT

1. Sure, you can make money at 35%—when you're lending large amounts of money to a group of people who are statistically good borrowers. The thing you're forgetting is that it NEVER was possible to make money at 35% on a payday loan. Let me use some real numbers to illustrate my point. Let's imagine loans above 35% are banned. Someone comes into my place and wants to take out a $100 payday loan. Because it's a payday loan, they will be paying back in one or two weeks. Now take 35% and find the charge for two weeks. That's right: $1.34. Can you make money operating a lending agency where you only make $1.34 on a customer taking out an average loan? Now remember that the default rate for this group of customers is estimated anywhere between 10% and 25%. Let's take the lower number for the sake of argument. Let's say you get 100 customers in a day and 10 of them will default. Now the amount that you loan that day is $10, 000. The amount that you get back in two weeks is $9, 120. You haven't even made any revenue! You've lost money! Of course once you take into account the cost of doing business (rent, electric, wages) you are probably one of the absolute worst business failures in history. You're like a restaurant that nobody has ever eaten at AND you got your till robbed.

2. You know those places aren't making a lot of money. This is just like people who threaten to ditch their local gas stations. The profit margin on selling gasoline locally is razor thin. In some cases they even take a loss on gasoline, just to get you inside the convenience store. It's the same way with payday loans. Profit margins in payday lending are very thin as it is. If high-risk lending was some kind of cash cow, these places would have bikini-wearing employees and valet parking like some kind of casino.

3. You say that when people pay these outrageous rates they seldom have money left over for other things. So what? The same is true of anything. That should be their decision and their decision alone. Who are you to take that decision away from them?

4. You cite the price gouging fines in the gulf coast after Katrina. I disagree with those fines as well. Gas was in high demand, and those places had every right to sell their gas at whatever price they wanted. Let's say my name is Joe and I own a Sunoco service station. I'm sitting on all this gas, and I don't even make money selling it. The only thing I make money on is the amazing donuts I sell in the store. Now a hurricane hits. Suddenly everybody demands gas. They need to get out of the area and they need to use up all my gas. Nobody wants donuts because nobody buys luxury goods in times of emergency. Why do you have the right to tell me to give my gas up at a financial loss to me just because my neighbors didn't prepare for disaster? I need to feed my family as well. When demand goes up, prices go up. When demand skyrockets, prices skyrocket. This is simple economics. I'm sick of people villainizing small business owners. This isn't daddy Sunoco out in the Middle East setting these prices and laughing at the poor refugees. This is another guy who lives down the street from you who is worried about his own survival. He sees that he has a product in tanks under his store that people need, and he can make enough money to do what he has to do if he charges appropriately for it.

5. Your statement about people not being in an educated state of mind is the closest thing to a real argument you've made yet. I think you just might have something there. But keep in mind—people who buy cigarettes aren't just desperate psychologically, they are CHEMICALLY ADDICTED to their cigarettes. You can always cook up a story about how somebody wasn't in the right mindset to make an intelligent decision. But you're missing personal responsibility. These people are adults. When you ban the only loans that they qualify for, you're robbing them of their independence and their liberties. You are telling them they aren't intelligent enough to make their own choices. I can't stand it when people claim to know what's best for poor people, and use that 'knowledge' to take away poor people's freedom.

6. You claim that taking out payday lenders does not limit one's options. Of course it does! That's exactly what it does! Let's consider a simple example. Jack needs money to buy food. He expects some money from his paycheck next week, but this week his paycheck is gone because he had to buy antibiotics for his kids. When payday loans are available, Jack has option A (bounce a check at the grocery store), option B (starve to death), option C (go to a shelter), option D (beg his friends for help), or option E (take out a payday loan). If you ban payday loans, he now only has option A, B, C, and D. One of his options is gone. And you forcibly took it away. That's wrong. It's wrong to take away somebody's ability to do ANYTHING that doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

7. I wasn't alive in the 70s. I don't know how easy it was. I've never pawned anything. I'm sorry about inflation. The reason inflation exists is because the government continues to spend money taking away our freedom and when they can't afford any more, they print more money. More money in the system means everyone's dollar is worth less. This payday loan ban everyone wants is just one more way for government to spend money taking away our freedoms. And when you take away option E, it will take more tax dollars to feed a couple more hungry mouths on welfare. So inflation continues. I wouldn't be surprised if your cable bill in 2020 is well over a hundred dollars.

Do you see my point yet? I still haven't heard you answer my questions.

Apr 13, 2010 1:30 am EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

If they made money at 35% why can't they do it now. Yes... a limit is like a ban. Some may not be able to simply hand out money to everyone at 35%. When someone charges 100% they have gone beyond just making money but ripping people off. That is my point. I think when people pay these outrageous rates they seldom have any money left for other things or even opportunities. There are laws on the books now that protect people. Even laws that protect you. At one time there were laws to protect everyone from being charged 100% interest. When the weather at the coast put a kink in gas supplies years ago and some gas stations decided to charge 6.00 a gallon for gas, some were fined for that. We have laws in place to protect people from that but not 200% interest.

The thing to point out is the mind set of people that use these places in comparison to someone that wants a TV cable or a plumbing repair. People paying 100% or more are simply desperate. Some may even say you can't really make an educated decision in that state of mind. These people that use these are not using the money to buy a TV or a car stereo. These people are going to these places out of desperation, or fear of what will happen if they don't pay a bill or something. And usually the thing they fear is not as bad as what they will experience taking out one of these loans. Some even use these places to feed addictions, for beer money. These places make you think its a good thing, and how easy just a few extra dollars would make your life better. Then the worst happens, you get stuck in one of these loans that takes forever to get out of. These places are predatory and I am against that. No one makes you think you have to buy that 99.00 cable. When my Satellite bill went to 63.99 I had a choice, pay more or turn it off. These people are led to believe they have no choice. And yes... you could say I am taking the choice away from them. I had other choices long before they were allowed to charge over 35%. Taking out these guys does not limit ones options or choices. You will still find a way to pay a bill or one choice is to do with out. I have lived without heat, I have walked to work before, I even showed up at my friends house just about the time I knew they were having dinner. I have had people that come in my yard looking for anything they can do for a little money too.

Remember the time when if you could not afford to pay a place back you simply didn't get the loan. Yes I have to admit, I miss the 70's. Back then, you get in a bit of a bind you pawned the TV and paid the 5 bucks extra to get it out. There was rent to own and most knew you could buy cheaper other places. If you didn't pay they just take the stuff and no problems. In 1979 my cable bill was 7.95 a month, and my cigarettes were 40 cents a pack.

Apr 13, 2010 12:05 am EDT

*Sigh*… here's a point-by-point. It's too late at night for this discussion:

1. Setting an interest limit of 100% APR is the SAME as telling people they are not allowed to take out a loan with an APR above 100%. They are the same thing. A limit is equal to a ban. If you limit loans at X%, that's equivalent to banning loans above X%.

2. I have seen FAR more people in trouble because of smoking than because of payday loans. I ask you again: why shouldn't we ban smoking as well? And again, I point out that there are several people that utilized payday loans responsibly. Why shouldn't they be allowed to continue to do so?

3. I absolutely DO NOT own a payday lending agency. I've never worked for one. I've never met anyone in the lending business. I'm twenty-three years old, and I'm a student of political philosophy and economics. I'm an urban pizza delivery boy. That's it. If you'd like to peruse my Facebook profile, I'd be more than happy to send you the link. I HATE it when people assume that I've developed my opinions around what will be most profitable to me. Would I benefit from legislation which required a $9 tip for pizza delivery? Certainly! Would I vote for it? Certainly not—it would be categorically wrong of me to rob people of their freedoms for my own benefit (or for the benefit of anyone else).

4. I DO advocate the right to rip people off—as long as contractual obligations are fulfilled (and nobody gets stolen from, killed, injured, etc.). I think that if somebody wants to list their 550 sq. ft. sublet apartment for $2000/mo. on Craigslist, more power to them. And that's exactly what these payday lending agencies are doing. They're offering a highly-priced product. It may not seem like a very good deal to you, but that doesn't give you the right to keep them from trying. Best Buy charges $99 for an HDMI cable, even though you can get one for a mere $3 on the internet. Does that mean that Best Buy is ripping people off? Probably. Should they be shut down because of it? No! What if they use attractive banners and aggressive television commercials to advertise the product? Of course not! Their customers ALWAYS have a choice in the matter. They can either buy the cable or not buy the cable. And similarly, payday lending agencies aren't forcing anything upon anybody. They are merely offering a choice, and trying to make some money.

5. We clearly do NOT have the same beliefs regarding limits and the law. My beliefs are consistent. Yours are not. Why is it that you don't want to be forced to wear a seatbelt, but you're okay with being prohibited from taking out a high-interest loan? It sounds as though you're only in favor of the paternalistic legislation that won't interfere with YOUR reckless life. Doesn't it seem a bit selfish and hypocritical to demand personal freedom for yourself, but not advocate it for others?

Apr 12, 2010 11:27 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

Now, what about the limits... I think my comments were more about setting limits than telling people they should not be allowed to take out a loan. I have seen more people in trouble because of these loans, and don't think they can get out of them. Most think they are going to only use the money for two weeks and keep the loan for a lot longer. Some all they can do is keep paying the fee and the loan never gets paid off. I actually have no problems with pawn shops. People can always walk away and not owe anything. If you could do that at a payday loan place maybe we would not have a problem.

The politicians will never ban anything they are making money on. From what I have learned there is a lot of money behind some of these rip of rate loan places too. I think a lot of money is going into keeping friends in Washington happy, while they help keep these places open.

I am guessing you own one of these places. That is about the only reason someone would advocate the right to rip off the desperate and or uneducated. What happens when someone stops paying you?

From what you are telling me you seem to have the same beliefs I do about limits and the law. We just seem to disagree on this one. I don't like laws telling me to wear a seat belt, or any laws that protect me from myself. I think I would rather live in a box than derive income by preying on the desperate. I have to sleep at night. Are there a lot of business models out there that the main goal is to take as much as they can? Yes there is. I guess there will always be those that will legally take your money or lawfully rip someone off.

Apr 12, 2010 10:18 pm EDT

Your examples aren't strictly the kind of paternalistic laws I'm talking about. Speed limits on the roads could be justified for efficiency purposes: it's less of an inconvenience to people around you when you're traveling at a reasonable speed. It's also much more dangerous for OTHER people when somebody flies by at 100mph. Having a drinking age is about not giving adult rights to children. (Of course, that doesn't account for 18-year-olds, but let's not get into that.) I don't think 16-year-old kids should be allowed to take out payday loans either, for that matter.

But I don't support the United States' prohibition on crack cocaine. I believe adults should be allowed to put whatever they want into their bodies, no matter how bad it is for them, as long as they aren't infringing on the rights of others. That's their freedom. You said that you're a smoker. How would you like it if the government banned cigarettes?

And keep in mind: cigarettes are harmful most of the time, just like you're claiming payday loans to be. So is driving without a seatbelt. But the important part is this—it's harmful to you alone. Your bad decisions don't infringe on the rights of others.

You claim that you don't see how a payday loan can get anybody out of a bad situation… but several people on this thread have given real examples of how the availability of a payday loan helped them get out of trouble. Even if these people are in the minority, who are you to tell them they shouldn't be allowed to enter into those contracts?

Apr 12, 2010 9:55 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

There are a lot of laws out there that set limits. Laws that basically protect us all. They do set speed limits on the roads. Crack is still against the law. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that it's not good for you. I don't think its always been legal to charge 200% either.

I am not talking about closing these places down, even though some of them would disappear if the limit was 35%. I don't see how anyone can get out of a bad situation by paying 200%. They are only digging a bigger hole that may not be able to get out of. If these places could only charge 35% they may actually start asking for collateral like they once did before. The people that would go hungry or start living in a box will always be here. 200% interest will not save them. All it does is put it off for a month or two and may actually force them into that box. When people are really desperate they will do almost anything. And for someone to actually prey on people like this is simply not right. For that and that reason only is why there should be limits. There are already laws in place to protect everyone from other scams. Why is this one any different.

Yes I think speed limits are a good thing. Yes I think being 18 or 21 to buy beer is a good thing. Yes, laws against hard drugs are good. And yes, these places need limits too. These places are what keep the poor people poor, and the owners rich. And if you think about it, that's not good for the tax payer either. We all will pay for it in the long run.

Despite what you may think, I am also a firm believer there are too many laws that restrict everyone. I am not big on laws that restrict people but am on laws that protect people. Too much tax on cigarettes, possible taxes on sodas, and the list goes on and on. Keep in mind I smoke and don't like to wear a set belt.

Apr 12, 2010 8:42 pm EDT

This is ridiculous. I can't believe we have to argue about whether two parties should be allowed to enter into a financial contract of their own free will. The paternalistic attitude here is appalling. Basiclife, why should you tell people what they can and cannot do with their own money?

If you want to ADVISE that payday loans are troublesome and usually regrettable, that's fine. Advise people to not smoke. Advise people to see a doctor once a day. Advise people to save for their retirement. Advise people to wear seatbelts. Those are all examples of generally good advice.

But once that advice turns into a legal mandate, you've taken away a person's basic freedoms.

Skippy64, your points are very well-stated, and I agree with you completely.

Apr 12, 2010 8:12 pm EDT
Verified customer This comment was posted by a verified customer. Learn more

There are a lot of ways to survive without paying 200% interest, or even 98%. When I was younger if someone had bad credit they simply didn't get a loan. If they did get a loan with bad credit they had to pay about 35% interest. If it's going to cost someone 12 to 14 k to move they must have an awful lot of stuff. Why not sell off some of that stuff, and when times get better you simply replace the stuff. 20 years ago that is what you would do. So many people spend like the income will always be there to pay the bills. If you owe a hospital a ton of money why borrow money at 200%. Does the debt go away. Its just as easy to owe the hospital a lot of money if you cant pay them, than owe it to some place charging 200%.

The only people I have heard ever say these places were good, are the people that own, run and work at these places. Yes, there should be limits on how much these places can charge. When a place charges 200% interest, they are not helping you. They are taking advantage of you.

If you live on less than you make and stop the thought that everything you own has to have a payment you will never need these places. No one has to have a car payment. And...if you live like this long enough, it may not even mater if you have bad credit.

Apr 12, 2010 7:22 pm EDT

To compare this to person stealing, or some one using heroin is a fallacious argument. When you go to a traditional lender they run your credit and if you qualify they charge you a given % based upon your credit score. The worse it the more of a risk you are and the higher % you pay. It's the same thing only in this case they pretty much can assume with out running your credit that you are a major risk. So you are charged a % that reflects this major risk.

Taking this option a way is far worse then putting some one out of home or their kids with out food. Your one experience with your one friend does not mean that every one is like your friend. This way of thinking is the cause of much worse prejudice in this world.

For example While I did handle my money poorly in the past I changed, and was building up my savings. Unfortunately a major medical problem put me out of work with two back surgeries and cleared out my savings. Once my short term disability ran there was a gap of several months while I had to wait for my long term disability to kick in. I did not have cable or satellite, hell they were one of the first to go. I did not have a phone, internet (used the Library) or gas service and my stove works on gas. I was forced to use BBQ and my microwave for all of my cooking. While I could live with out gas I could not live with out electricity. Ware I live it routinely gets over 105 degrees in the summer and an AC is a must especially when you are on medication that makes you very sensitive to the heat. When I applied for every assistance know to man I received the same response over and over, you family income is to high. Apparently my wife makes to much money. 18, 000 in CA is like 8, 000 - 10, 000 in other states.

I had a choice strategically use payday loans to get through until my long term D.I. kicks in or find a cardboard box. Now if you can explain how it is more humane for me to move into the cardboard box while disabled, please do! In the time that has past I used the payday loan as an effective tool to get through a very rough financial period. How is that not a useful tool? Once my long term disability kicked I no longer had a need to use them and stopped getting them. I haven't been able to build my savings up yet as I am not capable of returning to work yet. Once I am I will put money into my savings.

Just because a person has made poor choice in the past doesn't mean they will never change. It most certainly does not mean that they should go with out food or a place to live if there is a viable tool available especially if the same government you want to outlaw this tool will not provide any assistance because they do not take in account that different areas of the country are more expensive to live and the minimum monthly income allowed is based upon low cost states. It easy to tell some one to move when you have the money to move. It takes an average of 12, 000 - 14, 000 to move to a different state. I thought I would put that out there since I know that those who think like you will say "well move". It's not that easy when this type of situation happens suddenly.

While not every one who gets a payday loan is not in this situation, or have turned there money habits around there are plenty who are in similar jams. There will all ways be those who abuse the payday loans just like there will be those who abuse traditional loans, but we don't outlaw traditional loans. Two things our societity seems to has abandoned is personal responsibility and compassion. We all can do better by looking past our own nose, and taking more responsibility for our own actions instead demanding laws to regulate legal behavior.

Apr 12, 2010 3:40 pm EDT

I have got a loan through thinkcash and did not have to fax anything. It pretty much went they way they said it would. I also recieved reminders. But I'm confused as to the complaint about the reminders to pay because they automatically deduct it from you acct which should correspond with your pay days. However, the only problem I have with them is they do not allow you to pay it off until 12 payments later which is how you end up paying a ridiculous amount in interest. Its not hidden from you but I think the majority of people who get these loans are desperate and in a hurry and dont take the time to read the details. There are many others out there that will allow you to pay it off in full the very next payday if you are able to.

Dec 06, 2009 4:21 pm EST

If you have a choice whether or not to do something, then, by definition, it's not coercion. Nobody, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY, is forced to take out a payday loan. They are 100% optional. In most situations it is probably not the best option for most people—but what are you gonna do, outlaw doughnuts so people will slim down? If you ban payday lending then the number of options decreases. Period.

I didn't make any ethical judgment about people who offer these loans. There are probably a lot of them who are not-so-nice guys. But it doesn't matter. The law does not exist to put not-so-nice guys out of business. The law exists to protect our rights.

Dec 05, 2009 3:47 pm EST

What did the chicken say to the other chicken? Cant we all just get alone! Get it? Loan! Hahahahah