Verizon review: forcing internet service on media phones 95

This company refused me entry to the store after i demanded they record my complaint in their system and print it out for me. They refused, said their "printer did not work". I am getting a "refurbished" phone replacement which has the same bugs as my present phone.

Verizon wireless is uncaring and does not present themselves with pride!

wtf does any of that have to do with what i said, i called her odd because of the way she thinks as it pertains to the topic on hand yet here you're off in your own world going on about random crap that doesn't even make sense. You sir have lost me

MartMart: "I rather resort to name calling having a failure to grasp a simple concept". Not sure what that means but, all I'm saying is that, while I tend to lean toward a more conservative opinion I don't think it's neccessary to call people names. If we have to then let's save it for those nutjobs that run planes through our buildings, and shoot innocent people (Gabby Giffords), instead of wasting our anger on someone who happens to disagree with a frickin phone plan. You can't possibly be that mad about how she feels, can you?
Yesterday, one month after getting my wife a droid x2 with an unlimited data plan, we purchased another droid x2. Only now I am told that the same data plan is no longer unlimited. We must pay more for the same thing. One month difference! I am still a Verizon fan over any other, but it's not calculus to see that, as time goes on these companies make it more and more profitable to exist. I really don't even mind that so much, because when companies prosper they hire, but at a time when people have less, charging more will not grow the business.
As for your opinions about being her neighbor. They have worked hard, saved, struggled, and supported this country. If you find that odd, then what does that say about you? I did not, nor will I ever vote liberal, but to treat them as though they are ignorant, or "Odd" just because they disagree, negates all of the fighting that three immediate members of my family fought and were killed in action for, thier right, and the freedom to have an opinion. As well it almost makes me ashamed of voting the conservative side, if in fact that is who you support. I suspect you voted for that loser in the white house though. We are people first! Then - we are Americans! Then, and only then do we differ. Get some anger management mister!

As for Irish Lady being neighbors and friends, no i would avoid her as her views are a bit too out there for me to relate and frankly find her a bit odd.

I rather resort to name calling having a failure to grasp a simple concept. Two can play this game

If anyone has any ideas on how to fix this thing we call the United States of America, go to my new web forum at http://nomorewarmandfuzzy.groupbox.com
and let's see what we can drum up. I decided, thanks to another poster here in this site, that perhaps people CAN work together to come up with ideas that will help our country, and actually unite Americans once again. This site is brand new, and so anyone who has an opinion or idea come and join me, ok?

irishlady: I did this because it was suggested to me. I truly believe there are those of us who, despite differences, can work together to create a better America. You have had a very strong influence in this decision. So I invite you folks first to join, and let's see what happens with it. Get other people like yourself involved. I'd be willing to bet that there are Democrats, Republicans, and then there are those who just want a better America, and are not too rigid to work with others. God bless you, and your husband. I would really love to meet him, both of you.

I would love to put forth the question, to anyone reading this. Knowing that our economy is in such dire need, Dont't agree with me, just tell me "What would YOU do to create jobs. We need answers, obviously congress and politics has not been the answer. Bring your ideas to the table, and let's challenge them. The next Nobel Prize winner may just be YOU! Let's hear it.

Also irish lady. I am 58, my wife 57. Our lives, while different are not so different. We are, in spite of our views perhaps, still all Americans.

irishlady. one final thought. I feel like I left out any emotional, or caring for others politically, and I did. I just want to say, so that you know we're not just hardliners. I believe that we should love one another. I believe we should take care of those in need. I have never been against entitlements. I myself, after my first wife passed away, had to get food stamps. I got one months worth but it came in very handy. I later took in a foster child, after having raised 14 kids. I do believe that America should in fact show the world that we are a caring nation in every regard. Perhaps at times I think in mathematical terms which, can often make one seem uncarring but, I believe that in order for America to truly be giving we must first position ourselves in such a way that it does not create an unbearable future for its people. I mean, how can I feed my neighbor if I have no food? Sure, I can share the two pieces of bread I have left, but when that is consumed we (myself and family, and my neighbor) will all perish. We must make good decisions about the future of our own people before we can pass it on to others. That may mean we must do what is against the priciples of our own people. No one likes to see so many suffer while others seem to just reap benefits. On the other hand we have to decide what it is that will make companies hire, money flow, and people go back to work so that they too can prosper. The problem lies in the politician's false promises to please everyone at once. I try to think that, while it is unfair for these big companies to rip off the little guy, I also know that, it is these same big companies that hire people. Companies should pay their fair share, I will never argue that point. My thinking (and I would love your input) is that, if business, large or small, is where jobs come from, and we need and want for them to hire, would we be wiser to let them flourish first, then gradually adjust their perks? I guess if I had to put it bluntly I would say "Hey, if they can get unemployment down to 3.0%, then let the ### eat cake! THEN go after them, gradually increasing their tax, and healthcare burden. I mean think about it. No one complained about big business in the nineties. Because everyone (almost) was working and making money. Today these same companies are viewed as even more evil because so many are now so much worse off. I'm not sure, as you can probably tell lol, what the answer is. But I think that when you tell someone "you are going to start paying more, and you are going to start paying for more benefits, and we are going to limit how you can do business", you can't just create that kind of ambiguity, and then turn around and say "Oh, and by the way, could you hire 3500 more workers before the next election"? PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE - don't let what I've said make you think I'm pro corporate America, or hardline conservative. All I'm saying is that we are in a catch 22. I think if I were president, I would put the ball back in the people's court. I would turn to the American people and ask "Ok, you are asking me to make these big companies pay their fair share "Nothing wrong with doing right" I agree. "You are asking me to make them provide your healthcare, and pay you more" Fair enough "who doesn't want that" I agree. But - you are also asking me to convince them that after all we want from them, that they hire all of you, so that they can pay those higher wages, benefits, more taxes and restrictions. My question to the American people would be. Fair enough, just could you please tell me how to do this?

You know irishlady, I believe that is the sixty four million dollar question, and I think if anyone can come up with the answer to it, they will likely be worth more than a measley 64 million! LOL Anyway irishlady, I am giddy waiting for your next post. I have come to seriously respect your opinions, and really do look forward to your next post. I check it all the time, because that's how people find answers. I have a saying that I have always used and believed in. "You cannot substantiate something until you have challenged it" I love that, and I may be wrong, but I actually think I 'coined' that phrase, because I had never heard it when I first thought about it. Get back to me. Wish we had our own forum. Wow, a group of people who don't 'always' agree, but know how to show respect, and find compromise! imagine that...God bless.

irishlady. You two are not so different from us. Perhaps when I laid claim to 'liberal' thinking in my first post I might have at least had the common decency to counter that impression with what I believe about conservatives. I truly do believe that If conservative thinking were any smarter they wouldn't tout on the one hand, that we need to get jobs going, and then do a 180 by giving all the cards to big conglomerates whose only mission is to make money. No, the truth is that I simply do not have a lot of faith in either party. You see, I believe that we are people first. Being a good person is not a prerequisite to politics, nor is it 'party' specific, any more than it is required to be a good person in order to register for a party. We all have something to bring to the table, and we all take something away. I have been called a moderate at times because, while I believe that some things make sense, Americans tend to take their views too seriously to ever resolve anything. Hence the lack of compromise. I'll give you an example; Conservatives say NO abortion- NO exceptions, yet it seems that liberals tend to defend abortion without any conviction. How can that extreme thinking ever find compromise. My position is simply this; A woman has a right to choose, however that "Clear" cut view is as vague as NO Abortions - NO exceptions. If I were president (and thank God I'm not), I would say that, while not taking a life is what God might smile on, I can't say that I think a 12year old incest or rape victim should have to give "Her" life because of the thoughtlessness of some selfish pervert. So, for compromise conservatives must be willing to bend enough to admit that there ARE in fact exceptions. Likewise the left should admit that, using abortion as a form of birth control is as extreme as the opposing view. My take? Abortion should be legal, it should be paid for through insurance to insure safety, and it should be used as a last resort, rather than just another way to support irresponsibility. I think to say "Well, they're going to do it anyway" "So why not arm them", is accepting defeat, it is defeatism. To me compromise means that everyone gets "some' of what they wanted. Yet, if you listen to the heads of each party you hear the same things we heard all through the debt ceiling debate. " We presented a bill, and they blocked it - they will not compromise". Leaving out of course (each party) "The bill that we presented was what WE wanted".

Both parties are liars, they are corrupt, and will never do anything but keep us brainwashed into thinking that, in order to solve any problem in this country we must choose only one of two solutions. So pick either Dillinger, or Capone. I also know that, as long as there is an Electoral College, we will forever be given one of those two choices. People say that is not so "We have independents, liberatarians, green parties. When is the last time one was in the white house? If I were president, I would NEVER campaign on the premise that, "I" would turn things around. I am not a tax expert - I am not a business man - and I could therefore not promise any of that. What I WOULD promise is that, with regard to any of this great country's problems, I would bring in the best minds in that relative field. Shame on Bush Sr. for saying "No New Taxes". What the hell does he know about taxation, or what it will do to an economy. And shame on Obama for promising jobs, when he has zero experience in business. The problem is that, they claim to bring in the experts, yet if you look at these so called experts, you find that they too are only failures who are in bed with those who benefit them. Tim Geithner. "Forgets to pay taxes for four years" = in charge of our monetary system? That's the best mind they could come up with? Geez.

People make fun of Donald Trump, and much of it with good reason. He's been bankrupt 3 times! And yeah, his hair is rather freakish. On the other hand, with each fall he came back to amass even greater fortune. Would he make a great president? NO. Should he be brought to the table for his ideas on how to boost our economy? Absolutely! He's correct when he says that other countries are eating our lunch, and taking our milk money. China, Korea, OPEC, just to name a few, are abusing our good nature, and give nothing in return. China pays nothing to import their goods into America - ZERO. America pays the highest import taxes in the world! Yet we have leaders on both sides quoting such things as "Reliance on foreign oil", and how we need to stop them, yet except for the occasional fleeting comment about it, our leaders (on both sides of the isle) do nothing more than give lip service. Obama is right about taxing windfall profits from OPEC. But he is not enough of a leader to get it done. He says he cares, but other than a few pretty words, we are not much better off than we were with the first Bush, or even Clinton for that matter. The smoothest talkers that, make us feel the warmest and fuzziest seem to get the job. But once they move into the house they don't get the job DONE. And that, is because they are then the new mouthpiece. We need a kick -a@@ "Take no prisoners" kind of leader, who will not apologize for America. One who will bring in tough negotiators, and ask the questions, such as, what does it take to create a job. What do we need to do to get money moving and people working. How should we handle this healthcare thing? Instead they ask people like Geithner, or Dick Cheney? These are the best they can come up with? I think not, I think these are the ones they play golf with. The best way to rate a candidate during a campaign is to listen to their promise about earmarks. Since Nixon (to include Reagank, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama) we have heard NO EARMARKS! Yet, to date earmarks remain the wreckless but traditionally most effective way to buy house votes. They're all liars, and it's time to get to cleaning house. But I can tell you unequivically that, the next best used car salesman, who makes us feel warm and fuzzy will get the job, but not get the job done. And without doubt he, or she WILL be a democrat or a republican. Thank you Electoral College for more of the same.

Now onto a brighter note. It really would be fun to be neighbors. I would bet that between you folks and us, we could come up with the best scenario for today's world without bickering. How fun would that be. A couple of drinks and we could probably create a better world! LOL Don't worry about the hat your son wears strangely. My son wears silk swimming trunks, a Hawiaiin necklace, a hunting cap, and cowboy boots - all at once. But I know that he will one day meet a girl, and that will change. God bless her...LOL.

Michael...you are very kind and seem very thoughtful and extremely smart as well! I'm very impressed with your commentary about market studies and such, although a bit over my head. LOL You sound like just the sort of people I'd like to have as neighbors as well. You and my husband would have a lot to talk about for sure and I can see us having some lively, intelligent debates..without all the childish name-calling. Respect for each other's opinions. What fun!

We used to have a 30-foot cabin cruiser in our younger days. How can you live near all this water and not have a boat? Loved it...had a ball with it. But it's time had come. It was, as they say, a hole in the water you throw money into and we came to the realization that we had to turn our focus to our future. Sometime after that, the company I had worked for for 25 years was bought out and moved to Houston. I had the choice of taking my year's severance pay, or moving to Houston, or traveling 75% of the time. With 2 boys entering their teens, it was not practical. I took my buy-out, as my husband was still making very good money. I was able to be home for my boys when they really needed the guidance. Then 9/11 happened, the economy tanked and it was not long after that my husband lost his job. We went thru a rough period. Fortunately, we had gotten rid of the boat and paid off all our cards with my severance and also purchased our land up north. His truck was nearly paid for. Our child-support payments canceled each other out.

He continued to freelance and also worked odd home-improvement jobs. One of his freelance jobs paid off and we used that to buy me a car cash. I had been driving a 73 Monte Carlo that my husband had restored. Not great gas mileage. We used my severance to buy that and a couple more classic cars for him to restore as a hobby, while he was still working. When he lost his job, we sold those. Those proceeds, and the rest of the freelance pay, together with unemployment compensation got us by. As the boys got older, I went back to school, working part-time. Then started working but at a really low pay rate, until I gained experience and was able to command better pay. My husband also switched career paths. We eked by, barely. And prayed neither of us got sick because we had no insurance. That was a rough period. At one point we were down to our last $200. My husband (to my dismay-what was he thinking?) bet on a Superbowl square and won $1400. Whew! Lucky SOB! Just as we are looming on ruination, something comes along to stave it off. LOL

Eventually, he landed a good-paying, but not permanent job with the help of some guys he had helped out when things were tough for them...giving them freelance jobs. What goes around comes around and they helped us. Because of the cutbacks we had already made, we were able to accumulate some savings to live on after that job finished. We cleared our land and used some of that money to start building. While trying like hell not to lose our home, we figured if we had to walk away from it, we could move to the cabin and live there. Contingency planning. Eventually, I landed a pretty good job with good benefits, thank God. Am (at least for now) able to work quite a bit of O/T and I do the books for a company part-time. Lots of hours though. Tiring! That's got us by pretty well, with his part-time work and home-improvements. My husband recently went back working at another long-term, but temporary job again and we are banking all of his pay and living off of mine. It's not all roses. But when you don't have all the bills you can manage. Taking advantage of the insurance and getting delayed dental work done, glasses, etc. Fortunately we had my insurance when I got appendicitis. Whew! Luck is holding out...$25, 000 in medical bills we didn't have to pay...only about $1200.

As to building that cabin, my husband is 56 years old and it's getting a lot harder for him. He's a go-getter, but a lot of it got up and went! LOL Housing values tanked. Thankfully, in 2000, my husband built an addition onto our home which has increased it's value. I think we will be able to sell it if necessary. We are not under water and have a good fixed rate. Even more thankfully, we didn't consider it necessary to buy a huge home when we were making $175, 000/yr between us and buy new cars all the time. Some good decisions there. My husband is not stupid by any means.

As you say...we've worked very hard all our lives for what we have.

All of that being said, and at the risk of losing your respect, let me say that we are Democrats. We have no problem paying taxes for entitlement programs. At the risk of soap-boxing, let me explain. We always took the position that "there but for the Grace of God go I, " even though we really didn't think it would happen to us. We work hard and always have..we're not lazy. We are smart and capable. We think we are good people. We try to be. My husband clears the snow from the homes of the THREE elderly widows on our court (in addition to our own) without pay all Michigan winter long. I crochet lap blankets for nursing homes and hats for cancer wards. Collect every single pop top I see to give to my mom for charity. We raised good kids. Taught them to work for what they want. At the time, they sometimes thought we were being unfair, when so many of their friends' parents were giving their kids things on a silver platter. They don't think that way now that they are adults, though. They see that we were giving them life skills instead. They see some of their friends are practically helpless and lazy. Our boys didn't have cell phones til they could pay for them themselves. Paid for their own car insurance. We helped them get cars...didn't give them cars outright. They were Varsity athletes, while working jobs. GPA's ABOVE 4.0. Had curfews. They worked their butts off. Good looking, popular, nice to other people. Don't dress like gangstas. (Although my youngest likes to wear his hat weird, but likes country music too. LOL) Respectful of their elders. My elderly neighbors just love our boys...they always say hi, stop to talk with them, and help them out when needed. They're not trouble makers. We were doing everything right, weren't we? I thought so. We could do more, but hey...wouldn't you think we'd have accumulated some good karma?

Well...there we did go for awhile. Bad things happen to good people too. We cleaned out our retirement account trying to make ends meet there for awhile. We eventually cashed in on some of the taxes we've been paying for these programs. The state paid for my schooling along with a Federal Pell Grant. We just needed some help during a bad economy that was not our fault, until we could get back on our feet. And we pretty much are. For now. Maybe we did build up some good karma after all. But things can change damn fast and before you know it, you wonder what the hell happened.

My mom's health has been bad for a long time. My dad's is now failing. They have retirement savings and pension, but the health issues and expenses are catching up with them and they need our help now. Not much, but I can see it's going to get worse for them. My dad is proud though. Won't ask for help. Fortunately, my dad planned for retirement and did a lot of improvements and repairs to their home before then. Oh boy! All of this can change your perspective toward the idea of paying for something you don't want or need.

Sure there are greedy, undeserving folks on the dole. Those scamming the system. Of course there are! It's unfortunate that we have to legislate morality. There are a lot of wealthy scammers out there too. Because we've worked hard all our lives, if our taxes help even a few deserving, ordinary folks that are and always have been hard-working, then it's all worth it. I would rather see someone undeserving get away with it, than see one deserving person go without and lose everything. We'd have been up the creek. Is that right? Is it fair? We have an acquaintance who is on Social Security Disability, all the while lamenting and campaigning against entitlement programs! Where would he be without it? Oh...it's Social Security...he paid into it. I see. Well our taxes pay into the other programs as well. And they should be there if needed. It seems it's the greediest of people who are against helping others until they need help themselves...then that's different. I will never understand it. Maybe they justify that attitude by convincing themselves that it's ONLY the lazy, dead wood who don't have jobs and refuse to get one. Not true! Nobody is immune to hard times and possible ruination. A lot of these greedy, heartless people may just end up like us, age discrimination and all. But there are a LOT of good folks out there without the gumption and wherewithal my husband has that won't end up as well as we did because we trimmed a lot BEFORE disaster struck. I hope not. I truly do. I wouldn't wish this on anybody. I also hope for kinder thoughts and kinder actions for those less fortunate. Because even after a lifetime of hard work and trying to do things right, things can go to hell in a hand-basket quicker than you think.

I just thought, before you commit to your opinion of us...you should know who we are and where we come from. You may not agree now that you know. But good people are good people, regardless of politics, don't you think?

BTW martmart. Whether you agree, or disagree with someone does not mean they don't deserve respect.

MartMart. I don't know about you, but I have learned a valuable lesson in this forum. "Before we judge someone, we should get to know more about who they are". I started out agreeing with you, but now I could not disagree with you more. I think irishlady and her husband would make great neighbors and friends. They have worked hard for what they have, and for me to have only Assumed was flat out wrong! Read her posts, then tell me you have the right to condescend. They are true, hard working Americans who, probably moreso than you or I, have thought carefully about what is wise, and what is waste. If you are worth the keystrokes you made in order to prove an unwarranted point then you will man up, and apologize to these good people. If not, then your words are only waste, and will be argued by any decent person. Shame on the both of us.

Irish lady: It's refreshing to hear all this. I know what your husband has ahead of him. I built our log home on Table Rock Lake in southwest Missouri by myself. It is the seventh one I have built by myself. Most of them were in Colorado. That is a very large undertaking, but if he's anything like me he will enjoy doing it. There is a great sense of accomplishment associated with having done it with your own two hands. Although, while your hands feel proud your back can sure end up pretty sore. LOL . But still worth it.

As for the financial end I must say I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the both of you. You actually (I have to admit it) seem to have made some better decisions than I have. We cut our cards up years ago, and life is better for us for doing so. We don't often have the cash to outright buy things, but then we weren't always so practical. We do however try to 'minimize' . We do without some luxuries, but try to make that philosophy work in other areas. Living on a lake is of course next to impossible without at least some access to its pleasures. We decided just this past week to purchase a boat. We had to wait five years to do it, but it's been worth the wait. I had the credit, and wherewithall to purchase a new one, but like my truck, rather than buy a new F-150 I purchased a 97 one owner that was like showroom for 5300.00. The boat is just a sixteen foot jon (Tracker with a 40HP Merc), and I picked it up complete with foot operated trolling motor, areated livewell for 3000.00. That way, instead of spending 25k on just a truck, we now have a truck and a boat for 8300.00. I know that a boat can be seen as an uneccessary and frivilous thing, but I try to justify it by using the lake as my excuse LOL. We also have a sixteen year old son still in high school, and I have always believed that if you keep them busy doing good things, they tend less to look for trouble. Anyway based on what you have told me, I wish the people in Washington would think more like you good folks do. My hat's off to the both of you, and I'm very proud of your husband for the labor he puts in, I know how much work that is. He's a good man...you're good people. Don't know that I can say the same for MartMart. I wonder how hard (or little) he's had to work, and where he is today as a result. The TV thing is a sore subject with me. We have a 42 inch plasma (my other son bought for us as a gift two years ago). I had to have it repaired six months ago, and it cost 300.00. But then again, it was after all a gift, so that was a small price to pay. Besides, for us that was part of minimizing. We used to have Dishnetwork but decided we could spend more family time on the water by giving up something less important. Today we get two chanels out of arkansas, but we get to fish a lot more. It was a trade off, but the whole thing with appliances gets my goat. Everything is disposable! Makes me mad. My grandmother bought her first washing mahine when she married, and 56 years later, when she passed away, it still worked. I built my home six years ago, put all new appliances in it, and have already been through 2 dishwahers, 3 washing machines, 2 refrigerators, and am getting our cook top worked on today. They build nothing but junk today! And there are only three of us here, and not here a lot. Seems like today we pay more to get less. They take advantage of the consumer. I think I just said I am on your side...LOL. Anyway, after communicating with you I'm glad to know you both (even if indirectly). God bless you and yours. Michael

As an addendum: Our 52-inch big screen TV died a few months ago (paid cash for that) :( 52-inch flat screens were a bit too expensive, and we didn't want another projection TV, so we settled for a 46"... paid cash of course. It's not like we're miserly or anything. We buy what we really want and/or need. We just couldn't see laying out the cash they wanted for something only a few inches bigger. The price differential was too wide. I still miss my 52-incher, but we find that the new one has more clarity and definition, and is more energy-efficient. So, it's all good.

Michael, Thanks for your kind words. As to MartMart...He and I seem to be in a long-standing debate in which, unable to make his point reasonably and logically, he resorts to name-calling. He believes if you have the funds to purchase the data plan in order to get a nice phone, you should go ahead and do that without griping about it. I don't happen to agree. I have better things to spend my money on.

And on the subject of fiscal responsibility: We have ditched all our credit cards. I have an ATM card that serves the purpose of a "credit card, " where one is required. If we can't afford something, we simply don't buy it. Interestingly enough, without those cards, I find I have a LOT more money left at the end of the month which accumulates. Emergency purchases, medical, etc...I can pay cash for them. It's curiously liberating. We needed new furniture. We paid cash. We are building a cabin in northern Michigan. We bought the land cash. We are building the cabin cash (my husband is building it himself...he's wonderfully capable and handy!) We paid for the well (expensive!), septic, power, excavating and stump-pulling...cash. We OWN what we have there free and clear. We have no car payments - we own our cars free and clear (my car was paid for with cash) We have a mortgage, period. I bought a new laptop when the video on my old one went bad...cash. We pay for Christmas cash. If we don't have it, we don't spend it. AND just because we have it, doesn't mean we spend it for something we don't need. The cabin will be our retirement home for the summers. We're working on getting something in Florida for the winters. Rest assured, that will be paid cash as well. We are working toward our future and giving Verizon extra money every month for a stupid data plan isn't part of our future.

That may not be fair of you to say martmart. Irishlady is in a scenario in which, she is NOT looking for an upperend product, with all the frills for nothing. She has the resources to pay for what she wants, but does not NEED all the required plans that they will force on her in order to "Not only keep her bound for two additional years", but will in essence "Force her to pay for something she does not need". If I sell you a new car for your wife, and all YOU need is a small truck to haul light things, and don't see the need to purchase a new F-350 one ton dually, wouldn't you be upset if I told you that you HAD to purchase a one ton dually with a dump bed? That is why the "Pre-Paid" "unlimited everything" plans are coming to fruition. Consumers were once forced to enter into long term contracts, with high end deposits in order to get unlimited voice, text and data. Someone actually saw a market (and whoever it was, was a visionary) for those who did not want the burden of contracts and forced products. Now, because someone was intelligent enough to -not only care about the consumer, but saw a profit margin, was able to provide a service that offers a fair deal, and meets people's needs, and with the products they actually want. I mean don't be so damned hasty man.
I believe that if Apple, Motorola, Blackberry, and the like were smart, they might in fact at least perform a feasibility study to determine perhaps, if there does exist a market in which, these phones could be purchased, and function in such a way that, they would provide only what the consumer needs. Right now Verizon is offering an Android deal "Buy one get one free". I would love to get two of them, but the fact that I would have to add two more data plans is rediculous! That's 60 bucks a month more for something that our MIFI already has covered. So, in fact they are not selling Androids at a great price to offer better phones. They are luring those who want Androids into "Two more data plans". Think about it. The Androids are nothing more than "Bait" for the monthly 60 dollars they are after. That is all she (irishlady) is saying. I think she is looking for a fair market that does not yet exist, but I think she is being MORE than reasonable. Lighten up on her. She is a nice lady. Think fairly for once.

lol irishlady is still being stubborn good to see you haven't changed your crazy ways!

Keep it up

By the way irishlady. Your last paragraph made more sense to me than most books I have read. The term fiscally resposible is not often understood, and certainly not adhered to anymore by many. Your reasoning speaks volumes of wisdom. I would certainly be willing to support you in a letter to verizon by substantiating what you have said. You're brilliant, and posess a keen sense of logic. Peace to you as well. Michael

Irishlady: Thanks so much for your understanding. I really do understand your point now, and I agree. I really think that you are especially correct when you refer to these companies forcing folks to take cheap crappy little phones unless they are willing to purchase somehting they don't need! From a consumer standpoint that is strongarming. I have the verizon MIFI, so I don't need to purchase data to my phone as well. Yet, in order to get a good quality phone, I have to purchase the data that I already have through them, and frankly don't need. I have really thought about this and I think (again, only think) that this may have to do with their studies on economic trends, and drawing what they only think are more realistic (I call it profitable) markets. If you've noticed, the prepaid industry has really begun to evolve. With so many carriers now people can get unlimited everything (voice, data, text, etc.), with an upper end phone for as little as thirty five dollars per month. Which, ultimately ends up costing the consumer much more than the advertized price (but that's another Jerry Springer episode lol). I tend to believe that, their studies show that there is a large market who would like to have all of the goodies, but either don't qualify (without a large deposit), or can't afford a plan. In your case, you can afford it, but just don't need the data, yet you do not want to get stuck with a cheap flip phone as a penalty for not buying something you simply don't need, am I close? This is where I agree with you. I believe that companies such as Motorola (Android), Apple (Iphone), and the like should see a market (only because I believe there exists such a market) for folks who wish to stay with a good quality phone, then from there offer what I like to refer to as a "Stepping" order. In other words "I would like to purchase an android, but would only like to have voice, text, and perhaps a navigator, and GPS capability". I do not want the data plan, as I already have internet access (no need to pay for 2 forms of access). I hope I am getting close to your theory.
That being said we have to ask ourselves a couple of questions. (1) While you and I feel very strongly about this, if we were placed in a stadium filled with 80, 000 other users, (I know sounds dumb so far lol), would what we believe about this represent a majority, or perhaps just a handful of supporters (demand). (2) If we were the CFO of a providing cell carrrier, and our job was NOT to meet the needs of consumers, but rather create a healthy bottom line, what would we ask ourselves regarding this issue? (1) We would now be continuing as a provider to consumers, to purchase androids and iphones at the same price, however, we are now realizing less revenue by offering these phones for minimal need and return (we are no longer mandating the data plans, and therefore lose revenue). The truth is irishlady (and you are very much a lady for having forgiven me), these phones (at least I believe), were never designed as a way to provide a quality product. I believe their sole purpose was, and likely always will be, to sell data plans! They are a selling tool! Not the answer to our need as consumers for a quality product. Wrong perhaps yes, but facts to be faced.
Finally, if it were possible to provide such a phone, without higher revenue generation as the goal. In other words, if we could all purchase quality phones, without having to pay for the extras (data), what would that do to the junk phone market. There is a multi billion dollar industry, not to mention the rip off insurance policies for these phones, with their deductibles. Think about it; you provide insurance to a majority of free and junk phone users. You charge a 50.00 deductible for replacement phone, plus a monthly premium. The replacement phone costs you 20.00 (maybe 10.00 if refurbished, which most are). You've just made 30.00 -40.00 on the refurb, and the premiums were all free money. Do you think they're going to let that happen so that your needs can be met? Think about it hon.
From my research, AT&T, Sprint/nextel, Verizon/alltel, and Tmobile (soon to be the child company of AT&T) all require a data plan contract in order to purchase a phone that will not end up in the insurance company's already fat bank account. The best we can DO is find the best quality phone, that allows us only what we need from it, and instead of insuring it, drop the policy and buy one on ebay. It will save you the premium, and will likely last longer than the crappy replacement they will send you. The best we can HOPE for is that, in time the consumer will do as the consumer has the power to do - create the demand! Good luck irishlady...

@mjaw...you are not entirely off the mark: I do want a nice phone without the data plan, but not necessarily a Blackberry. I currently have an LG ENV. Works just fine without a data plan. It's getting old now. Last I heard, it now requires purchase of a data plan, so I can't replace it with a new one now. That's just wrong. People are assuming that because a phone is not AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE without a data plan, that means the phone won't operate without one and that is just blatantly false. We should have a CHOICE whether to purchase the data plan or not. Just because one can afford it, doesn't mean they should HAVE to buy it. What boils me is that the choice of phones sans data plan is getting smaller and smaller...all that is available are low-end phones with crappy calendars (or none) and hardly any non-data dependent features. Most of these nice phones will operate just fine independent of a data plan. Why can't I buy one without buying the data plan? What's wrong with wanting a nice phone without a data plan? The high-end phones are more expensive. Of course they are. I get that. I don't want something for nothing. I just don't want the damn data plan. It would make more sense for Verizon to do the opposite: if you want to buy a data plan, you have to buy the high-end phone, not the other way around.

Your satellite TV analogy is not the same. You are talking about the service. I'm talking about the device. I want the device, not the plan. I will happily pay more for a nicer phone without a plan...let them up the price of the phone. They will not let me! They say NO, YOU CANNOT BUY THIS PHONE AT ANY PRICE WITHOUT A DATA PLAN.

I have satellite TV. I pay for quite a lot of channels, just not the premium HBO, etc. I have a high-end DVR on my receiver. I have the DEVICE. I was not REQUIRED to have HD service in order to have the DVR. I spring for HD and local channels. I love it. And I am not required to purchase HBO, or any other premium channel, or purchase the "TV Anwhere" (or whatever it's called) in order to have the HD service and the high-end DVR am I? I just wanted HD. THERE is my point. I have a CHOICE. It's the exact same thing. I can still have my DVR without purchasing HD service or HBO or anything else. I CHOOSE to buy the HD service.

Cell phone: I am required to buy cellular service to have a phone.
Satellite: I am required to buy satellite service to have a satellite receiver.

Cell phone: I AM required to buy a data plan in order to have a NICE phone.
Satellite: I am NOT required to buy HD, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime or Gold Package etc. to have NICE receiver with DVR.

See the difference? Satellite does not require I purchase special programming in order to have my DEVICE.

As to your offer of help finding a phone, I will certainly keep that in mind and thank you! My Verizon contract just ended a few days ago, so I have no idea what's out there now. I like gadgets as much as the next person, and I do need a phone that functions as a PDA. I like having a camera. I do not need it to connect to the internet, or whatever. It's not a question of being able to afford it. That's not the point. It's just not fiscally responsible to spend for a data plan I don't need. I have a computer for that. I do not feel the need to be constantly connected and tethered to my phone. I don't need to know right that minute if somebody on my "friend" list has a headache. If there's something that somebody feels I should know, they can text me personally. Otherwise, it'll wait til the next time I log in.

Peace! (and no apologies necessary!)

@irishlady: I guess I was confused about what you wanted. I just Assumed (and yes go ahead with the cliche lol) that you wanted something along the lines of a Smart phone, but without the data. I really am unaware if they make such a phone. I just didn't know enough about what you were looking for. It just sort of came off to me as though you were looking for a top notch smart phone, but didn't want to have to take the data plan. I wanted to actually do that once a few years back. I was with AT&T, and wanted a new Blackberry, but couldn't afford a data plan, yet they told me I couldn't activate a Blackberry without getting the data plan. I felt let down, but had to accept their crap. My daughter has a (crux). I think it is a pantec. It is not a smart phone, but does have the touch screen, and app capable. I personally have a hard time with touch screen technology, but she seems to really like her phone. I apologize for the critical words without first knowing what you were wanting, and I'm probably still not 100% clear, but I do apologize. I took what you meant the wrong way. Sorry. I am curious though, what phone, or kind of phone are you interested in? Maybe I could help you look around some. Anyway, whether you choose to accept my apology is entirely up to you, but for the sake of decency, and my own integrity you can know that I truly am sorry. And you were right.

mjaw...you are completely missing the point and have digressed into a political diatribe aimed at the liberals.

As I have said repeatedly...I do not mind having to pay extra for a nicer phone. I did pay more. But at the time, it did not require a data plan. But to have to pay for a data plan just for the privilege of paying more for a better phone is ridiculous. I don't want the data plan. I don't need the data plan. If I did, then I would be perfectly willing to pay for it, of course. I do however want the features of the nicer phone, which I am perfectly willing to pay more for. Again...I will pay more for the PHONE. Even if they said that I'd have to pay even more for the phone if I didn't buy the data plan, that would be more acceptable. But they want that extra money EVERY month. They're telling me that I can't even buy the phone at any price, unless I buy the data plan.

As a matter of fact, lately I have considered purchasing a data plan, but the idea of being FORCED to purchase it, just to have the phone is what stops me from buying the data plan. In other words, I refuse to buy into that corporate coercion. My Verizon contract has just completed...I'm shopping around.

to many of you. If you want luxury, do not ask that you be given the same as those who must pay more, at poverty level prices, just because they make more. Let every man feed another, but let NO man starve his own, that others may eat. This is America, I do not hear those who can afford a data plan complaining. Our country is all but bankrupt because of that mentality. Either make more money, and get the goodies, like everyone else has to, or settle for what you can afford. Read! Learn to be practical. My five phone plan was riddled with insurance expenses! Six dollars per month times five phones! That came to 360.00 per year, plus the fifty dollar deductible for the four that I had to replace in just six months would have come to 560.00 dollars. I researched and found that, I could buy almost new phones on ebay for 25.00, and eliminate the insurance. I spent (in four months) 110.00 replacing four phones on ebay, and eliminated the insurance saving myself 450.00! I did not ask verizon to provide my family with perks and discounts. I made my kids suffer with 'make and take a call' plans only. Too bad, a hundred years ago we did not even have phones. The American dream was conceived and achieved on the concept of getting ahead through working harder and smarter. Today we only ask that those who have GIVE to those of us who have not. I am willing to bet that, once we adopt that standard, we will no longer have a corporate America to complain about, but rather we will just kick back and wait for someone (the government) to see to our selfish needs. Wake up and work America!

Irish Lady: I really do not mean to offend you, but do you think that those who pay 19.99 per month for a satelite tv pachage should get the same 500 premium channels as those who pay 99.99 per month? Do not misunderstand, I would LOVE to get the same privelages, but you get what you pay for. Go to the store and try to buy the best quality food products for the same price as those who buy the generic goods and see what the difference in the bill will be. You get what you pay for. If you want an android just to make calls, text, and all the features without the data expense, then accept that you will not likely own an android. Find the best you can get for what you can afford, and go with it until the future looks brighter. Just sayin.

Irish lady: I would love to have the casio commando, but it also requires a data plan. I also would like to have an F-350 diesel truck, but could only afford an F-150. Don't look now but all of them (AT&T) have cool featured phones (blackberry), but they also require a data plan. I have five phones on my plan. My wife wanted the android x2. We have to pay for a data plan. I went with the casio Brigade, instead of the comando. so that my wife could have the android. When I graduate and make more money (and can afford it), I will purchase a comando, and the data plan. My point is that, we sometimes become spoiled, and want the same ammenities as the upper class, but we think we're entitled to those same ammenities that others have to pay for, at the same rock bottom prices we are used to. The best will never cost as little as the worst. Stop pouting, and either create more income, or settle for what you can afford until you can. Create a better future, and stop asking "Corporate America" (the evil empire) to hand it out to you, just because you're nice and they're rich, doesn't mean you're entitled. That's liberal thinking, and that is what is bankrupting America!

To Ernie18...as an employee of Verizon, then you must be fully aware of the inaccuracy of your statement. True...the phones are not made by Verizon, but the Internet REQUIREMENT is dictated by Verizon, not the phone maker. The phone I have, at the time I bought it, did NOT require a data package. NOW it does. The phone will work fine without the data package...it is VERIZON requiring the purchase of the data package. As has been said before, this requirement of a data package in order to get a phone with other nice features is the gripe here. The same as purchasing a computer for COMPUTING purposes only, but being required to purchase internet access because the computer has the capability. Ridiculous! You say it is our choice to pick a phone required to have internet. What choice is that?

Also, somebody else commented about getting their phones all at the same time, but the expiration dates differ...I, too, would like an answer as to why that is so. My guess is that by staggering the dates, they keep you locked in longer. Another insidious little tactic.

as an employee of VZW I will say you can't make everyone happy. If you look at other carriers they don't allow you to have unlimted internest. look at the millions of people that need internet on thre phones. They save millions of dollars each year but this $30 plan. You get upset about paying $10 for internest. Well to be honest that is your choice to pick a phone that is requried to have internet. I mean let think about the time of day we are in now. Everyone wants to be in touch with there friends and family in any wayt hey can. Myspace, Facebook, E-mail, Etc. that is why you see most phone need internet. The cell phone aren't made by Verizon

We are in the same boat. One phone is for my mom and she can not figure out voice mail let alone internate. What I hate is they change everything from charges to warantees at will. They are just as bad as a quick stop theif, At leats there you see your theif. The only way you ever get service is to threaten to leave, Then the threaten charges for leaving. I got four phones all at the same time but some how the expiration dates on the contracts vary by as much as a year. weird should they not be the same.

Would be helpful if you gave reasoning as to how im "[censor]ed", hopefully you're reason is because i don't agree with the whining you people present and have no beef with Verizon. I expect an intelligent answer from you.

I bet Martmart is employed by Verizon LOL... Otherwise, he's just flat out [censor]ed... I'm disgusted with Verizon for shoving the data package down the customers throat... I'm thinking about switching too!

I bet Martmart is employed by Verizon LOL... Otherwise, he just flat out [censor]ed... I'm disgusted with Verizons for the data package down the customers throat BS... I thinking about switching too!

Now you're getting it! :D But seriously...I'll just switch carriers at the end of my contract and let Verizon know why. All I can do. This was a fun debate though! Happy Holidays!

*throws in towel*

You know what you're right Verizon is big and evil out to ruin families, burn their pets and rape their babies they're the antichrist and will bring the end of the world to all of us by 2012, but in the end...there phones still require data plan if you want your stupid calendar :D

That's where your argument fails...those phones DO NOT require data plans to function properly. I know for a fact that a couple of models of phones sold by Verizon did not always require a data plan and the slick features worked just fine. Then the phones got popular and what drives whether you have to pay for the data plan is the POPULARITY of the phone...if people just gotta have it, then let's make sure they pay for a data plan in order to get it. So that's what Verizon decided to do...sell those phones cheap, rope people into a contract that had to include a data plan. Verizon does it because they can (so far) If I could afford a Caddy I'd buy it, but I wouldn't have to activate Onstar in order to get it. I'd rather pay more for the phone. This isn't the only board where complaints are being lodged. Verizon's own community board has just such complaints, but I suspect you already know that and are Verizon's standard bearer on that board as well.

Thanks for the tip about removing the shortcut..I'll look into it.

But here's where your argument is lost, you want these gadgets, but then you go on to say you don't want to pay for Data, well you can't have it that way the phones that offer those services are Data phones that NEED the data to fully operate. Like i said before i wanted those fancy gadgets so i bought a Droid X, i fully knew i needed the data plan, but hey i also know if i want the gadgets i need a data phone that requires DATA. And there's a simple solution to the 4 dollar access charge, have Data blocked or remove the shortcut.

And may I add that just because Onstar is available on cars doesn't mean the GM requires you to have and pay for the service just to get the car!

You don't seem to get it. If I want all the fancy gadgets on the car, sure...I'll pay for it. If I want all the fancy gadgets on the phone, I'll pay for the GADGETS. I don't mind paying more for the PHONE...I've said so. Sheesh! I just don't want the DATA PLAN...I'm already paying more for the PHONE ITSELF. If I want the data plan, I'll pay for that too. But I DON'T want it. Just the fancy gadgets on the phone...better calendar, etc., and I'm willing to pay for THOSE. And while I'm on a roll...what about Verizon slamming me with $4 data access charges now and again, when a button is erroneously pushed and then immediately canceled? Multiply that by a couple of million customers and they really have a racket going!

And i explained if you want those get a smart phone and pay the internet, you have many options like anything in life if you want more you pay more. As for you having the right to change it problem with that is what you want makes no sense at all. Think about it, its like this for everything in life want to buy a car sure you can want more in it you can have all the gadgets you want, but it will cost more, same with a house, entertainment center, computer etc etc. You want access to certain things on the phone Verizon gives you the ability to have them, but you have to pay. Its a two way street not one way like you want it to be.