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FAMILY EQUINE HORSE SALES / FALSE DECEPTIVE MISLEADING ADVERTISING NYS PENAL CODE ARTICLE S 190.20

1 90 OLD PERUVILLE LAGroton, NY, United States Review updated:
Contact information:
Phone: 6-7-898-3808

FALSE DECEPTIVE & MISLEADING ADVERTISING NYS Penal Law Article S 190.00

This complaint is based on my own bad experience that I had in after doing "business "with Lorraine and Robert Aichele, owners of Family Equine Services of Central NY- aka: Aichele Family Equine Sales LLC aka: Patchwork Therapeutic Riding Center.

After reading my post, hopefully people can decide for themselves if they want to buy a horse from this business and to NOT make a rash decision when buying a horse- exciting as it can be. I am posting this to possibly save people from the heartache and stress that these two people inflicted upon me and to not fall victim to their unethical behavior in the course of conducting business with them. In the end, I know in my heart that I was meant to meet these people for a reason, and to go toe to toe with them and not back down or be intimidated when they wronged me as well as the horse I bought-McGoo. I am a very easy going and laid back person and these two people stressed me to the max causing my already serious health problems to become worse. I have never met anyone like them or have done business with people who lied repeatedly with such an arrogant ease and a lack of conscience.

I am a trusting person and believe that what people tell me is the truth, I purchased a horse, TM Pepper McGoo from Family Equine Services of Central NY SIGHT UNSEEN based on internet advertisements that THEY wrote and posted of him, email letters THEY wrote to me, phone conversations, and face to face conversations WE had when McGoo was delivered by them to me. They lied to me from DAY ONE and never stopped. They led me to believe that I was buying a kid-safe dead broke ranch and trail horse that Robert Aichele had purchased from a well-known PRIVATE SELLER’s ranch in South Dakota.

I learned that Robert Aichele did NOT purchase my horse from a private individual but at a monthly HORSE AUCTION in Corsica, South Dakota. Had the Aicheles told me the truth, I would never have bought a horse from them as that only keeps horse auctions in business which is against my ethics and morals. I discovered that Family Equine frequents horse auctions all over the United States, buying horses for cheap, transporting them back to New York within hours, and then offering them for RE-sale immediately at bargain basement prices for a quick turn around profit. They buy horses from the infamous New Holland, PA Horse Auction, the Lolli Brothers “exotic animal auction” in Missouri, Corsica, South Dakota, and from CJ Cattle Company in Illinois. CJ Cattle Company is owned by CJ Oakwood, who is an outspoken advocate in SUPPORT of Horse Slaughter and that is how he earns his living- his right. When a horse fails to sell, Robert and Lorraine Aichele simply truck the horses “back to horse auctions” where no doubt many of them were sold by the pound for slaughter. Their website was full of lies where they falsely advertised their sales horses as being bought directly off ranches out west such as Montana, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, and other states.

When a horse isn‘t broke to ride or has vices, the customer has the option to return it in Trade to the Aichele Family Equine Services for another one that may suit them better (ONLY if they can financially trade at the time, have a horse on hand, and the trade does not have to be dollar for dollar). BUT, the Aicheles then advertise the returned horse as a TRADE-IN. That again is False, Deceptive & Misleading Advertising NYS Penal Code S.190.20

On the day that I am writing this, December 28, 2007 their website is advertising a returned horse by the name of “ Neon Nights”. Neon Nights was listed for sale months ago and recently returned because he’s cold backed and bucks. The Aicheles are now advertising him as a “Rescue Project”. The ad says:
We have had some problems with Neon BUCKING, we are selling him "cold backed". For all those animal rescue folks, here is one to SAVE! HE WAS TRADED BACK IN BECAUSE HE BUCKED WITH THEM - NOT US. Please be serious on this horse. $600

The Aicheles ALWAYS blame the customer when a horse they‘ve sold isn‘t what they advertised it to be and is returned - and they take it personally. Their sales horss are ALWAYS perfect with them and it’s the CUSTOMERS FAULT when the horse is returned for bucking or other vices. You can’t tell me that they didn’t know that Neon Nights bucked while they had him up for sale months ago and sold him to the customer who just returned him.

When I purchased my horse last June, 2007 their website described how they train their For-Sale horses using Natural Horsemanship Methods similar to Frank Bell and Monty Roberts (which I'm into). Their website advertisement regarding their training methods was the MAIN factor which swayed me into buying my horse McGoo from them SIGHT UNSEEN. I didn’t write it - THEY DID- and I READ it. They took it down recently but this is how they advertised their business for well over a year:

FAMILY EQUINE WEBSITE: “In God we trust, all others we round pen." This has been our motto for years now and stand by it still today! Within days of the horse's arrival we start or at least revisit the basics with all horses inside the round pen. We use natural horsemanship techniques similar to Frank Bell and Monty Roberts methods of round penning. "Training oversights" such as walking off while being mounted, spooking or problems catching in the pasture are corrected. Horses, which require no such re-schooling, are worked in the round pen to form a trusting partnership with humans. Some horses are simply lunged, this is not a definite for each horse.
Robert personally rides each horse extensively both cross-country and in the arena. He is an avid believer in L.S.D. (Long Slow Distance) and wet saddle blankets as a key component to our well-rounded sales horses. Every horse is ridden cross-country over and or through every available creek, stream, stonewall, hay field and wooded area that the countryside central New York has to offer. Sales horses are ridden out alone or in a group setting and have all been exposed to traffic. All horses deal with commotion and are required to crosstie quietly. Our specialties center on quiet, correct head sets, using the mildest bits possible. Often horses are backed down several bits as we attempt to correct over biting issues, which we find to be a commonplace problem.”

After reading all that, I TRULY thought that ROBERT was this talented Natural Horsemanship trainer which I was into, and who wouldn’t think the way I did? Like I said, THEY wrote it and I READ it.

After the last complaint was posted against them on November, 30, 2007, regarding “Worthless Horse Registration Papers” and when the dispute I filed against them came to an end, they have FINALLY changed their website around which reflects who they are and what they are into and hopefully the Aicheles will realized that “Honesty is the Best Policy”. Don't anyone hold your breath on that one.

When I retired my 25 year old riding horse a year ago, I decided to buy another well broke trail horse. I wanted a former ranch horse because they are ridden on a daily basis and very well broke. My husband’s 25 year old horse was from a ranch in Kansas, kid safe and bomb proof. I live next to an 11,000 acre park with a half mile hack down the road to reach the trails and was looking for another horse that was safe and sane in every way to enjoy a few hours of riding and a swim in the lake. I came very close to buying a Gaited Mountain Police Horse, but turned him down because he was too tall for me at 16 hands. I decided to look on Equine.com in my quest for a well trained trail horse and was willing to spend the money and had the funds to do so.

On June 25, 2007 I read an Internet Ad and looked at pictures on Equine.com of two horses that Family Equine of Central NY had WROTE and posted. I sent them a detailed list as to the type of horse I was looking for and Lorraine Aichele emailed me back stating that she had such a horse- T.M. Pepper McGoo. She stated that her husband had actually driven to South Dakota and HAND PICKED this horse directly off a well-known RANCH. I looked at this horse on 4 other equine websites such as Dreamhorse.com, Whinny.org, Horsetopia.com, and Horsetrip.com.

All of their advertisements on this horse said the same thing: he was purchased from a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL Terry Moody in South Dakota, was a bomb proof ranch horse, dead broke kids horse, did lessons, trail broke, road safe, etc. Their ads also said he had a shoe on every foot and he came with a Health Certificate.

Here are THREE Ads that had were posted on the internet the day I purchased McGoo. THEY WROTE and advertised McGoo this way on the Internet so POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS would read them and I was obviously ONE of them. Lorraine has DENIED placing these Ads over and over. Like they somehow wrote themselves and magically appeared 5 or 6 different equine websites. Thats why I LOVE saving websites to PDF- I do an archive search and then it takes a snapshot of the actual date posted and the URL.
I have intentionally typed some of the words in CAPS so they stand out and the readers don’t miss anything.

ADVERTISEMENT #1

This is G o o g l e's cache of their advertisement http://horsetrip.equine.com/horses/ad_details.aspx?lid=433422 as retrieved on Jun 26, 2007 09:24:37 GMT.

TM Pepper McGoo $2,650
Beginner Safe Ranch Gelding...if you can't ride this one get a goldfish! McGoo is the real deal. "Bob DROVE to South Dakota and HAND-PICKED this fine gelding".
He is but a 4 yr. old, standing 14.3 hands, easily 1000 lbs, branded, "OUT OF THE FEED LOTS of South Dakota of TERRY MOODY’S RANCH. PREVIOUS OWNER “SAID” he was used to break other 2 and 3 year olds. Can ride alone or in group, very cowy. He is started in breakaway. Loves to work, good handle, very safe and honest to ride in every way. He also stands to mount, NOT COLD-BACKED, NO BUCK or BAD BEHAVIORS. TRAIL RIDE, TEAM PEN, TEAM ROPE or 4-H horse...no matter what you ask of him, HE’S DOING IT ALL QUIETLY! Leave him in a stall for a couple of days, it doesn't matter to him. This guys got the right mind set that makes those good horses. SAFE ENOUGH for the most BEGINNER OF BEGINNERS but BROKE ENOUGH TO TAKE TO TAKE TO THE JACKPOTS (with crooked knees)! This is the kind of horse every 4-H kid should have! One of the best bred WORKING quarter horses in NY.
Selling 100% SOUND with a HEALTH CERTIFICATE, Coggins and SHOE ON EVERY FOOT. No known vices. Trailers like a pro.

ADVERTISEMENT #2:
Gymkhana horses for sale, barrel racers,team penning, roping Page 1 of 5
http://whinny.org/gamehorses

HORSES FOR SALE
Aichele Family Equine Sales & Training offers these fine horses:

TM Pepper McGoo is a super nice gelding AQHA, chestnut, 14.1
hands, FINISHED HEADING horse, GOOD IN BOX, very quiet, NO REAL SPEED,
pleasure, TRAIL RIDING, KIDS HORSE, GOOD REIN, OFF RANCH in S. Dakota
$2500;

ADVERTISEMENT #3:
This is G o o g l e's cache of their advertisement http://horsetrip.equine.com/horses/ad_details.aspx?lid=433422 as retrieved on Jun 26, 2007 09:24:37 GMT.
Super Quiet Gelding used for TRAIL RIDING CHILD SAFE. MCGOO is dead quiet w/t/c big trot- NICE REIN- NO VICES ties clips loads willingly, a beautiful well-bred gelding. HAS COMPETED in TEAM PENNING AND SORTING. WILL ROPE Quietly. Not a lot of top end speed.
Rides dead quiet in SNAFFLE OR ANYTHING. Believing this gelding is seeing him.
PRICE: $3800 NEGOTIABLE
Ad CREATED 6/4/07

Here is my Original Email Letter to Robert and Lorraine Aichele inquiring on McGoo.
From: ShelleyC
To: 625627
Date: Monday, June 25, 2007 6:50 PM
Subject: Equine.com TM Pepper McGoo Response 6/25/2007

Name:
Username ShelleyC
City, State: ROCHESTER, NY
Phone:

Comments:
I am very interested in this horse as well. I am looking for a: Kid broke bomb proof trail horse that can hack down the side of the road safely to get to the park. I live in NY and my zip code is 14534. What would trailer fee be? Thanks!

HERE IS LORRAINES AICHELE’S RESPONSE:

From: robert aichele
To: shelley camacho
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:54 PM
Subject: RE: Equine.com TM Pepper McGoo Response 6/25/2007

This real nice gelding has been here for around 2 months. I have worked cattle off him, roped with him, led trails, did pony rides for little kids, lessons, and July5, he is at cayuga co. fair doing security. He is very broke and a real nice gelding.

"My husband bought him in South Dakota DIRECTLY FROM A RANCH. A WELL-KNOWN RANCH." Please call if more questions.

He is shod on front and healthy. I ride him myself frequently. Real nice. Big trot, soft canter, good rein. ROADSAFE.

2600 delivered. I am firm at that price. Lorraine

I have saved Lorraine's email in PDF along with the Headers showing it came from familyequine@hotmail.com

Since I had set a $10,000 budget aside to buy a new horse, I thought $2600 delivered was a bargain for a Registered Quarter horse that was advertised as a bomb proof kid safe dead broke road safe ranch and trail horse by the Aicheles. I woke my husband up, told him I think I found my horse, and to come and look at the computer screen showing pictures of McGoo. I read my husband the portion of the Aicheles website about how they train their sale horses using Natural Horsemanship Training Techniques (above) as well as read the 5 Internet Ads about McGoo. My husband said “buy him honey” and I emailed the Aicheles back.

MY EMAIL BACK TO THE AICHELES:

----- Original Message -----
From: Shelley Camacho
To: robert aichele
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Equine.com TM Pepper McGoo Response 6/25/2007
Yes! We would like to buy McGee from you for $2600 delivered. I just woke my hubby up and he is all for it since McGee comes with a health certificate Please call me so I can give you my CC number over the phone as a deposit. Or.. I can call you Thanks!
Shelley Camacho

I telephoned Robert Aichele early the next morning to buy the horse. He told me over the phone that he drove to South Dakota and purchased my horse DIRECTLY off a Ranch from a well-known horse trainer and private seller Terry Moody. He said he bought McGoo a couple of months earlier and the reason why he wasn’t selling was because people thought he was too young of a horse- Mcgoo is 4. He went on to say that McGoo “was already making me money within 3 days of his arrival giving riding lessons to mentally disabled children“. I was excited and prepared to buy the horse when I called, but Robert Aichele kept me on the phone for almost an hour describing how McGoo was the REAL DEAL. I had already been convinced by the advertisements they posted on McGoo to include the email letter I received from Lorraine, as well as reading how they train Each Sales Horse using Natural Training Methods. The longer Robert Aichele kept me on the phone my intuition started screaming at me that something was wrong but I went ahead and gave him my credit card number anyway. I look back now and I think I gave it to him just to shut him up. The man had absolutely diarrhea of the mouth- no other way to describe it.

Plans were made for McGoo to be delivered to me within a few days. Excuses were made by the Aicheles and my horse wasn’t delivered on the day promised. I had a bad feeling and decided to look at my online Credit Card statement to see if a “down payment” was made on the horse. Imagine my surprise when I saw that Robert had charged my account for the full amount of $2600 on June 26th, 2007 . to their NOT-FOR-PROFIT Organization that they own and operate aka; PATCHWORK Therapeutic Riding Center instead of their business Family Equine Services of Central NY. An alarm went off in my head because I thought that Corporations are NOT supposed to be charging retail sales to a Not for Profit Organization that they own. Whatever. Their business not mine. I emailed the Aicheles to see when they would be delivering the horse. Robert was mandated to work extra hours according to them, I understood, and delivery date was set for July 3, 2007.

The night before delivery, I spoke with Lorraine and I purchased a saddle, saddle pad, and bridle package from the Aicheles for $600 since they advertised on their website that they sell tack. Since my horse was in THEIR possession, they agreed to fit the tack to the horse. This is another story for another day, but let me add that the bridle didn’t fit and pinched McGoo’s nose together. I returned it Priority Mail the day I got it on July 3, 2007, NEVER received a refund on the bridle, the saddle came without a girth, didn’t fit the horse, they refused to take it back, AND the saddle pad was dirty and moldy and covered in white hairs. ICK. I sold the saddle on EBAY for a loss of $250.

During the course of the credit card dispute I filed against the Aicheles, I wrote truthfully to my credit card company that I had sold the saddle on EBAY for a $250 loss. To get revenge for the dispute I filed, the Aicheles named one of their sale horses EBAY. I guess they wanted to send me some sort of a message. Even though I returned the bridle to the Aicheles and NEVER received a refund or credit from them, they found it amusing to yank my chain because I, their customer, had to sell the saddle on EBAY at a loss. Now these people have to be at least in their 40’s or 50’s and this was how they childishly behaved- by taunting me.

I posted another complaint a few days ago, December 24, 2007 under the one against them regarding Worthless Registration Papers. After they read my complaint, as of today, December 28, 2007, they have named one of their For Sale horses after my last name- CAMACHO. TA DA! Drum Roll Please…….

Aichele Family Equine Sales LLC Introduces “Camacho”

Camacho is a palomino gelding that loves people and attention. He has been traded in and had extremely good care from his previous owners Below are Pictures of Camacho

Now this is behavior from a business folks- one the Aicheles own and operate. God forbid anyone should ever file a complaint against them. They take it very personally and always threatened to sic the State Police on me. Never mind they and their “friends’ and “business associates” have called me a horse thief in a public forum and they ALL threatened that the State Police are after me. Not only did they try to intimidate me with their threats, their behavior was abusive, harrassment, blackmail and borderline Extortion. Here is an ad they posted about me on Whinny.org. This ad alone would NAIL THEIR ### to the wall for libeling me in a public forum:

Due to (Name Withheld) in
Pittsford, NY, we will no longer be taking credit cards,
sorry. Guess she thinks horse theft is in, she charged us back
on a purchase she had trouble with, instead of returning the
horse! Thanks to all the satisfied buyers and GOD BLESS!
Lorraine and BOB AICHELE Family Equine Sales &
Training LLC

They actually posted the Ad on Whinny.org using my REAL NAME. I wrote to Whinny.org when I saw it and here is what Pat Banker from whinny.org wrote back to me:

"This ad is no longer on WHINNY . When I read the name I immediately e-mailed the Family Equine and told them that a complaint with a name in it could not be posted and the name would be removed. It was removed and an e-mail was sent to the parties posting the ad that they could not post accusatory ads such as this.
I also told them NOT to place ads such as this in the future."
Good luck,
Pat Banker

They continue to taunt me. I am the one that is out $1000's of dollars NOT THEM. They aren't out one F' CKING stinking measly red cent yet they find it amusing to poke fun at me. How LOW can will people go? Obviously, Pretty Low- CLASS that is.

YEAH! BUT GOD BLESS!

On the morning of July 3, 2007 Robert Aichele called me from the road telling me he was on his way with McGoo. His stall was ready, new rubber mats had been installed, fresh shavings put down, along with hay, water, grain, and a salt lick. He was given the best “suite” in the barn with a “view” with 2 house windows to look out of.

When Robert arrived with my horse he parked the trailer on the road. My husband and I went out to greet him and he led McGoo out. I was absolutely shocked at the poor and neglected condition he was in. He was thin, his knees were swollen and scarred with all the hair rubbed off. McGoo had numerous fresh scratches, cuts and abrasions, as well as an open sore on his body. There was a 4” fresh horizontal gash between his ears along with two lumps. I could see he had older wounds that had recently healed with scabs.

He had a perfectly round fresh raw sore on his rump the size of a half dollar which I later learned was caused by an auction sales tag that had been applied with cement and ripped off by the Aicheles prior to delivery. What really took my breath away was his neglected right front hoof. It was over 50% longer than the other feet, curled upward, and was torn in 4 vertical pieces. He did not have ANY shoes on his feet as SOLD to me and Robert did not provide me with a Health Certificate, either. The Aicheles claimed he "threw a shoe before he got on the trailer".

I immediately asked Robert Aichele why McGoo’s knees were so swollen and he said “THOSE ARE MUSCLES”. I put McGoo inside his stall where I examined and remained with him until Robert left. Because I was so distracted by the horse‘s neglected condition, I only heard bits and pieces of what Robert had to say about McGoo. Thank goodness my husband is a retired police detective and undercover vice squad narcotics officer. Once a Cop always a Cop. In the course of his tour of duty with the police department, he was trained to observe others and listen and right then and there he became my eyes and ears.
Instead of Robert leaving right away, he decided to stay a bit and shoot the ###. He said one day he noticed that McGoo had a big knot and bulge around his spinal column. McGoo had been bucking at the time, as well, so they decided to call a horse chiropractor to take a look at him (no name Ever provided). According to Robert, the horse chiropractor said he must have been rolling on shale rock at their farm and that’s how he injured his back thus causing the bucking behavior. I remember saying “HE BUCKS?” Robert quickly answered “the chiropractor fixed him right up”. “Hell, I’d even hunt off this horse“. Every other word out of his mouth was J.C. this and J.C. that. Yeah, but GOD BLESS!

The Aichele’s MOTTO is “TO TAKE ACTIVE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE HORSE YOU BUY”. Apparently their own motto isn’t meant for them . You know…. “Do as I say, don’t do as I do” It was obvious that McGoo hadn’t been cared for properly since THEY bought him back in April. When I gave Robert Aichele my credit card number over the phone on June 26, 2007 and bought the horse for $2600- it was THEIR Responsibility to care for my horse properly until they delivered him to me one week later on July 3, 2007. I don’t give a Flying ### how busy they were or what excuse they came up with. When I paid them $2600 the Aicheles DIDN’T OWN my horse anymore. It was up to them to take ACTIVE RESPONSIBILITY to feed, water, board and care for MY horse or to at least cover him with a freakin’ blanket, separate him from the herd, trim his feet, not let him get bit by other horses, and clean up his wounds .

I “could have” sent McGoo back with Robert and told him I didn’t want him. But damn it, my new horse McGoo was there in the flesh, in neglected condition, but he was there in my possession and he needed some TLC. Since he had so many fresh open scratches and cuts on his body, we couldn’t let him out for a week for fear the wounds would attract flies possibly resulting in a maggot infestation. Our Vet agreed. As an advocate for the rights of animals, I TRULY realize that what some people think is great care for an animal, others think is [censored]less care. To us, as well as others in the Equine Profession, neighbors, and friends who saw him, McGoo had [censored]less care but his wounds were treatable. Our biggest concern, though, were his swollen knees and neglected hoof that needed so much trimming off there was worry he may end up with Laminitis because of the uneven weight distribution. I bought very expensive hoof growth supplements because his feet were soft and not growing as they should have been. McGoo was also anemic and dehydrated when he arrived.

We cared for McGoo around the clock and he responded nicely. He was very well behaved in the barn, cross-tied quietly, and was easy to bathe. He liked the company of all our farm animals which roam free on our property. Our 3 horses would come in and check him out while he was in his stall for the week. There was a little bit of jealousy, but nothing major. When McGoo was let out a week later, our horses accepted him right away and there was no biting or kicking. McGoo was a loner and I wondered why. He would stand at the pasture fence waiting for me to come out of the house-in a pining manner and it bothered me. He didn’t want to be with our other horses, just me.

The day came when I was going to ride McGoo for the first time. His wounds were healed, he was rested, well-fed, and comfortable with his surroundings. Since I sent the bridle back that Lorraine sold me, I used my own horse’s one eared bridle with a simple snaffle bit, and no curb chain (remember the Aicheles advertisements had said McGoo “can be ridden in a snaffle OR ANYTHING). I didn’t write that advertisement- THEY did. The saddle I bought from Lorraine didn’t come with a girth which irritated the hell out of me. I took one of my own girths and rigged it with 2 cinches to hold the saddle in place which it did. I am an expert horsewoman and am quite aware that horseback riding can be very dangerous. I do ride WITHOUT a girth on many occasions because I CAN RIDE. A saddle made out of wood or metal was thought up by people because they were poor riders and couldn‘t stay on a horse any other way. Look at how our Native Indians rode, they were the greatest horse people in the world and they never used any tack.

The saddle didn’t fit McGoo properly either so it became quite apparent that the Aicheles never fitted the saddle or bridle to the horse while he was in THEIR possession. I got up on him with the aide of a mounting block and gave him a clucking sound to walk. He didn’t have a clue as to what I was asking of him and he seemed timid. I tapped him on the shoulder and asked him to walk and he did. He was walking all over the place - like he was drunk- and couldn’t walk in a straight line. His ability to neck rein was poor. I remembered when Robert Aichele was here he had told me to “just let him walk wherever he wants to go in the pasture the first time you ride him”. Yeah, guess so. I rode McGoo in a small area and he tried really hard to do what I asked of him. This was his first time out with me, and I wanted to end it on a good note when ending our first riding session. When I asked him to whoa by a gentle rein command- he just kept on walking. The only pressure I ever use on a horse to stop it by rein command is by wiggling my index finger(s) once or twice. That not only keeps the mouth soft, but makes for a well-trained horse. I trained all of my own horses to whoa by voice or leg command in case a rein breaks OR if I just want to ride bareback without any tack at all (Natural Horsemanship). I tried over and over again and McGoo would not whoa- even pulling back on the reins lightly. I believe that yanking hard on a horse’s bit to get it to stop is cruel and I certainly wasn’t going to to do that with McGoo. He could spin like a son of a gun,though. I took him out again for the 2nd time, same thing.. The 3rd time I took him out to ride on the trails on our property and he was very nervous, apprehensive, bolted, and bucked almost unseating me. I decided I was going to email Lorraine and Robert because this horse was not trained to ride as they advertised him to be. Lorraine told me she was going to be delivering a horse 30 minutes away from me a week later, so she would stop by then. I thought “NOW THIS is SERVICE”. In the meantime, I decided not to ride McGoo until she got here. We went to Country Max and bought him a new bridle and bit for $200 but never used it on him. Because the saddle didn’t fit him, I bought and ordered an 8 pound European Treeless saddle from Germany for McGoo so we both would be comfortable on our long lazy summer day rides.

Lorraine visited our farm on July 15, 2007 after she dropped off a horse she sold nearby. My husband had fallen asleep on a deck we have built off our barn. When she pulled up in her truck, I came out of the house to greet her and the young woman who came with her. Instead of being greeted back, Lorraine flew out of her truck and started yelling at me-waking my husband- before she even walked into our barn where McGoo was cross-tied. I got out the new bridle we had bought for McGoo and she went BALLISTIC on me. She told me that it was VERY DANGEROUS to ride a RANCH HORSE without a CURB Chain (again- their internet advertisements said that McGoo CAN BE RIDDEN IN A SNAFFLE BIT …OR ANYTHING). Because I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and my hands were swollen and painful, I asked my husband to put the new bridle together. I was very excited and telling him to hurry up which flustered my husband so he put the bit on the bridle backwards. McGoo was NEVER ridden with this new bridle or bit. When Lorraine saw that my husband put the bridle together incorrectly, she continued to bully and verbally abuse ME. I had always treated Lorraine and Robert with respect and kindness despite the problems I was having with the horse AND tack, and was never treated this badly by anyone ever- and I WAS THEIR Customer. I asked Lorraine about McGoo’s bucking behavior, and she said “yeah, he was bucking and we said “That’s NOT McGoo. So we had a horse chiropractor come out ( no Name again) and he said he Twisted his neck and adjusted it. OK, which was it? Did he roll on Shale Rock like Robert said or did he twist his neck like Lorraine said?

Lorraine put her OWN bridle on McGoo - which included a harsh Curb Chain. I suggested to her that I ride McGoo first so she could observe his riding ability from the ground with me on him. Since I knew that Lorraine said she gave riding lessons at her farm, I figured the logical thing would be for her to observe me riding McGoo from the ground. She became irate and yelled at me stating “NO, I DON’T HAVE TIME”. I truly thought she was going to beat the ### out of me before she left to include my husband. My husband went into his “COP” mode and stood next to me as he saw I was very upset. Lorraine mounted McGoo and then she asked ME if it was "SAFE" for HER to ride him on my property. I told her my 3 horses were in there stalls so it was “SAFE”- . Maybe she expected lions, tigers, and bears, to jump out at her or something. Oh My!

When she mounted McGoo- he basically just stood there- so she proceeded to yell, kick and beat the crap out of him- said he was spoiled, barn sour and I ruined him because I didn't ride him with a Curb Chain. We were mortified. She rode him about 25 yards from my barn for all of 10 minutes and said “HES FINE“. He behaved badly with her but corrected himself after she yanked on the reins so hard I couldn’t look and turned my head away. Lorraine never observed me riding McGoo AT ALL or any other horse for that matter. She wanted to put a Curb Chain on McGoo’s new bridle. After digging around we found an old rusty one on an ancient bridle that had been sitting around in our tack room for years. She put the old curb chain on McGoos bridle before she left.

She also said that cowboys wouldn't "sissify" themselves by having to say WHOA to their horse to stop it. What happens if a rein breaks- then what? Do the cowboys just hang on for dear life on their galloping horse because they don‘t want to look like Sissy‘s to the other cowboys? That’s ###. Anyone who is on a runaway horse going full speed will do ANYTHING to stop it even if that means saying WHOA. Cowboy or no cowboy. When my horse took off my husband was so used to it he just said “Hang On Honey!” Since they claimed that Robert had trained all of their sales horses using Natural Training Methods similar to Monty Roberts and Frank Bell - they would have KNOWN that horses are trained using hand cues, voice and leg commands- the same way I trained my own 3 horses.

I asked Lorraine if she would please buy the saddle back and she said “NO- I CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY IT BACK. Whatever. By the time Lorraine got ready to leave, she had simmered down some. She got out a Country Supply Catalog and showed me a bit for me to buy and then gave me the catalog. She finally left after being at my farm for all of 20 minutes tops. The next day I went to Country MAX and took along the Country Supply Catalog and McGoo’s bridle. They told me his bit was exactly like the bit in the Country Supply Catalog that Lorraine suggested I buy.

McGoo’s new treeless saddle arrived a few days later. I put it on him and he responded positively to it immediately. A Treeless saddle conforms to ANY horses confirmation with no break-in time at all. You can put the same saddle on a thoroughbred and then a huge draft horse and it will fit each horse the same. He loved the saddle and so did I. I put on his bridle with the rusty old curb chain Lorraine had put on with a screwdriver. Off we went out to the back and onto the trails. He saw my potbelly pig, freaked out, and took off. This surprised me because he was advertised as being a Ranch Horse hand picked right out of the Feedlots. Trained ranch horses don’t freak out over anything. He saw some deer and took off. I led him onto some other trails and he bucked and bolted. I asked him to Whoa by rein command and he wouldn’t respond and kept on going. His back was always humped like a cat does. I was able to relax him some by letting the left rein loose, shortened the right rein and wiggled my right index finger so he would feel the “Whoa” command. I turned him around and rode him back home this way and he pranced all the way back to the barn with his back humped.

The straw that broke the camels back was when I went out to bring McGoo in for the night. I was leading him in and he saw my potbelly pig near the barn. Now he didn’t mind my pig, Lilah, inside the barn. She ended up sleeping with him in his stall to include 2 sheep and 2 horses. It was OUTside the barn that he freaked out. He reared on his hind legs and snapped his halter right off almost coming down on me. I went and got my husband who came out to help me put on a new halter and walk him in. Walking on a halter is a basic and simple task that horses are taught as Foals. He fought us all the way in - reared and challenged my husband. He tried to hurt my husband with his front legs. I was SO pissed. Not at McGoo- BUT at the Aicheles. I had almost sent my Nephew out to bring McGoo in and thank God I didn’t. He certainly was NOT a KID BROKE or CHILD SAFE horse.

I emailed Robert and Lorraine and told them to come and get McGoo. I knew they wouldn’t give me a refund and at that point- I didn’t care. They said they would come but made excuses as to when they would get him and never did. We decided to have him assessed by a JOHN LYONS CERTIFIED HORSE TRAINER. If you readers out there aren’t familiar with John Lyons, look him up. His students pay $20,000 to train under him for a year in Colorado using Natural Horsemanship Training Methods. It is a VERY difficult course and his students are HAND-PICKED. The trainer we chose lived in Colorado after completing the Certification and trained ranch horses as well as was required to work on a cattle ranch. She did this for years before returning to New York. She rode McGoo and he behaved badly with her. She tried backing him up and he started bucking. She said a “horse’s whoa is only as good as it backs up”. Since the Aicheles wouldn’t pick him up - we sent McGoo out for professional John Lyons training to the tune of $700 a month. It would have been unethical for me to sell a dangerous horse or even donate him until he was SAFE to ride. Because of all the scars on him, he was worth only a mere $500 or so if that. When the Aicheles learned that I sent him out for professional training Robert emailed me around 20 times telling me he would refund my money in FULL- IF I returned the horse to him. He kept on asking me “so when are you returning the horse? When can I expect him? I ll have your money right here waiting for you”. I guess they thought I would ride him the 100 miles back to them. I don’t own a horse trailer and don’t know of any horse transporting companies who would return the horse. THEY are in the business to haul horses for customers and THEY said they‘d come and get him. They knew of my position and took advantage of that. Robert does THAT a LOT just so everyone knows. He bragged to us how this lady complained about her new Paint mare the first day she bought it. That was the same horse that Lorraine delivered on the day she visited our farm. The horse spooked on a trail ride and the customer didn’t want the horse so he said “If you don’t want it then YOU return it.

On McGoos first day of training his instructor put him inside the Round Pen and he flipped out. He bucked inside that round pen for 3 months straight. When she rode McGoo he did not know how to do ANYTHING that the Aicheles had advertised him as being trained to do and his back was always humped. She tried roping off him and he freaked. They advertised him as being a FINISHED ROPING AND HEADING HORSE TO INCLUDE COMPETED IN TEAM PENNING EVENTS.
She also put Bell Boots on his knees before riding. Because the Aicheles had ridden McGoo with a very short tie down attached from his bridle to the martingale, he had been knocking his knees together HARD- and would cross one leg over the other to get away from the pain. That’s what caused the swelling and injuries to his knees. That’s also why he didn’t know how to walk in a straight line. He bucked and bolted because he was in pain and trying to get away from it. Since he was still growing, this way of riding screwed up his confirmation so that the front of him is shaped like a triangle. If his trainer forgot to put the Bell Boots on his knees, he would panic - knowing without the Bell Boots he was going to hurt his knees. He will always need to ride with Bell Boots because of his poor confirmation.

I was so angry that the Aicheles blatantly lied regarding this horse’s training by placing False, Deceptive, and Misleading Advertisements - a Misdemeanor in NYS- Penal Code 190.20- I decided to Dispute my purchase of $2600 against them with my Credit Card company. I informed the Aicheles that I was going to dispute the charge, and tried to MEDIATE the matter with them for half the price of the horse at $1300, but they refused. I asked them for pictures of my horse being ridden by children, disabled folks, doing lessons, etc and they wouldn’t provide any to me. The ONLY pictures I do have are of Lorraine riding McGoo with so much harsh tack it was a wonder he could walk. Sure makes you wonder why she was riding a KID SAFE BOMB PROOF LESSON HORSE with a 6" inch tie down and other harsh tack to control him. Matter of fact, Robert and Lorraine ride ALL of their horses using Tie Downs and the harshest of bits as a crutch- probably because they are scared [censored]less to ride a horse any other way.

The Dispute was a 6 month long nightmare- but worth it. The Aicheles finally admitted to the Credit Card Company that they had bought my horse at an Auction in their rebuttal. Their next defense was to attack my ability as a rider and owner of horses although they had NEVER seen me ride or care for horses ever. In their mind they felt that “let them off the hook” for lying to me in the first place about where they bought the horse from. They coached witnesses to lie on their behalf and who were proven to be liars too. I kept on fighting. I knew I would lose but this was never about the money. This was about them violating my rights as a consumer and about abusing and neglecting the horse I bought from them. My dispute was about the owners of a company who lied and lied and lied. They wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face.

My credit card company, WAMU, called me on December 13th and said since the Aicheles wanted the horse back (sure after I spent over $3500 in training fees) I would have to return the horse to them OR they would post the $2600 back onto my account. They also said that the Aicheles had submitted Videotapes of my horse to THEIR credit card company as Evidence and ridden by children, doing lessons, pony rides, etc. My credit card company nor I never received a copy of the Videos. As I said, I had asked the Aicheles repeatedly to send me pictures or videos of my horse BEFORE I filed my dispute and they refused. Suddenly in the 11th hour they have these videotapes.
The Aicheles started putting videotapes on their websites showcasing their 4-sale horses well after I bought McGoo. ALL horses werer ridden by Robert and some skinny assed dude- NO children and NO disabled people. The Aicheles also submitted paperwork from the Department of Agriculture stating my horse had been inspected for the auction in South Dakota. Yeah for horsemeat probably.

I would love to see those videos. I am positive they aren’t McGoo. And if they are, I’d like to see the tack they were using on him in the videos.

The Aicheles CRY that I have victimized them- and LIE to anyone who emails them inquiring about my dispute. Their reply is that I SUED them in court THREE times and lost each time and they WON. HUH? I filed a dispute with my Credit Card company ONCE. THEY suggested I file a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT with the AG office or go civil based on False, Deceptive, and Misleading Advertising based on “The New York State Penal Law Article S 190.20” and to sue for the unnecessary training fees when the horse is finished in the spring. That entire NYS Law is at the end of this Post.

Like who the HELL wants to spend $7000 on training fees?

McGoo’s trainer said there was a GAP in his training somewhere. Something was just NOT right. I decided to telephone the man who owned McGoo from birth- Mr.Terry Moody. He was a very nice man who immediately told me that his wife, Jill, was competing in the Barrel Racing World Championships in Las Vegas, Nevada. He was SO very proud of his wife and said they were leaving in a few days. I asked him about McGoo’s training and he was more than happy to discuss it with me. He told me that he gave his little boy McGoo when he was born on May 8, 2003. He was imprinted as a foal and he trained McGoo for his son in a simple bridle with snaffle without a curb chain. His little boy road McGoo in their indoor riding ring and their outdoor riding ring for 2 years - that’s IT. I asked him if McGoo had ever worked in the cattle feedlots. He seemed surprised and said NO! He was my little boy’s horse. We don’t have any cattle here- we own about 40 head of horses. He added he never even tossed a rope off McGoo. Remember now, the Aicheles advertised McGoo as being “directly hand-picked out of the feedlots on Terry Moody’s ranch” and was a Finished Heading and ROPING Horse who Competed in Team Penning Events. McGoo never saw a cow in his life.

To further PROVE how McGoo was trained by Terry Moody, enjoy this video of his wife, Jill Moody. It was taken during the World Barrel Racing competition in December, 2007. She finished and is Ranked #3 IN THE WORLD in Barrel Racing. This video SAYS IT ALL.
Jill trains her own horses for competition. This was how McGoo was trained by her husband and broken to ride, with barely a bridle on him let alone a curb chain. Copy and paste this into your web browser:

http://rodeoclassifieds.blogspot.com/2007/12/barrel-racing-videos-from-round-5-and-6.html

When the Aicheles bought McGoo, in my opinion, they planned on keeping him because Robert Aichele REGISTERED McGoo in HIS name. He claimed he never Re-Registers Sale horses in his name as that could take up to six weeks for the transfer. Just because McGoo had been owned by a well-known trainer in South Dakota, didn’t mean the horse was a finished roping or heading horse.

I read the Auction Catalog that McGoo was advertised in. Mr. Moody advertised that McGoo was “cowy as he should be”.
Being Cowy doesn’t mean the horse was a finished cutting and working ranch horse. Much like Pointer dogs are bred to POINT- COWY Cutting Bred Foals will often CUT other horses and foals in the pasture during play - because its been bred into them. The Aicheles tried to turn McGoo into something he was not. My horse was a KIDS horse- and had only been ridden with a simple snaffle and barely a bridle. YET - the Aicheles took it upon themselves to RUIN this horse by using a CURB CHAIN and a TIE DOWN attached to his breast collar from the time he arrived at their farm. Robert Aichele had bragged to me “this horse was already making me money within 3 days of arriving”. They forced him to give riding lessons, chase cows, rope and choke out calves, and with both inexperienced riders on his back to boot as well as Robert and Lorraine. He was pushed into doing things against his will and ridden with harsh tack he was not accustomed to. This was a former childs horse and NOW I know why he arrived so messed up- with swollen knees, wounds, neglected feet, and Shell-Shocked.

Because Lorraine kicked, hollered, and slapped the crap out of McGoo right in front of us- I can only imagine how McGoo was treated by them at their farm. This woman proved that she has a very bad temper as she blew her stack at me from the minute she arrived at our farm to the minute she left.

I was just contacted the other day by a lady who told me that I may owe 8% NYS Sales tax on the purchase price of the McGoo. If the Aicheles hadn’t collected the sales tax at time of sale, I would need to ask them for a duplicate copy of my receipt showing that THEY paid NYS the sales tax or I will have to pay it when I file my income taxes next year. More money. Just more crap. It never ends.


Shelley D. Camacho


The New York State Penal Law Article S 190.00 (False Advertising) reads:
OTHER FRAUDS ARTICLE S 190.00

S.190.20 False advertising: A person is guilty of false advertising when, with intent to promote the sale or to increase the consumption of property or services, he makes or causes to be made a false or misleading statement in any advertisement or publishes any advertisement in violation of chapter three of the act of congress entitled "Truth in Lending Act" and the regulations there under, as such act and regulations may from time to time be amended, addressed to the public or to a substantial number of persons; False advertising is a class A misdemeanor

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Comments

  • Wb
      29th of Dec, 2007
    0 Votes

    Mrs. Camacho- I know of an excellent Equine Attorney in NYC who will assist you. He specializes in cases such as yours regarding false advertising and is very good at it. He is licensed to practice Equine Law in other states.

    Email me if you would like to get his name and number.

    JJ

  • Je
      1st of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    I was going to post a new complaint and probably will because I am afraid that someone is going to end up getting hurt. Family Equine of Central NY does lie and false advertises their horses. I have been watching them for almost a month now regarding a horse in particular Dance Hall Doctor.

    On December 8, 2007 my brother emailed me a newspaper ad that Family Equine of NY had placed regarding a Blue Roan Draft Horse by the name of Dance Hall Doctor. I am in the market to buy a Driving horse and this was their ad on December 8th.

    Blue Roan Gelding , 1/2 draft , 12 yrs old, 15.2 hands, quiet & sound, rides & DRIVES, Perfect Christmas Gift! $3250; Groton www.familyequine.com First ran on: 12/08/2007

    I decided to look at this horse on their website but for some reason it was down all day. I didn't want to call them until I got a good look at the horse's pictures first. I searched around on some equine websites that offer horses for sale. I was able to locate this horse on Horsetopia. This was the way they advertised the horse on December 8, 2007, which was the same day the newspaper ad ran. Because of the length I am posting the interesting part of it:

    Dance Hall Doctor is a fine Blue Roan gelding, 12 yrs. old. 15.2 hands tall and approximately 1300 lbs.
    Bob has begun training him for hunting, by shooting on and around him. He is doing great. This gelding is from Texas and has been in the East Coast for approximately 3 years leading pack strings in New England.
    ....And we've put him in a harness and GROUND DRIVEN him...we were told of driving experience but he seems to have had some work somewhere along the line.
    No trades on this gelding please. See his video on our site as well as more pics. God Bless our troops! 607-898-3808, www.familyequine.com

    OK - their newspaper ad on December 8, 2007 said this horse rides AND DRIVES. However, on the ad they placed on Horsetopia the same day says "And we've put him in a harness and GROUND DRIVEN him. We were TOLD of his driving experience but he seems to have had some work somewhere along the line."

    I am glad their website was down that day. Had I not seen the 2nd advertisement on Horsetopia, I more than likely would have driven out to Groton expecting to try out and drive this horse pulling a cart. I would have been major pissed off if these people put a harness on Dance Hall Doctor and only ground drove him. This kind of advertising the Aicheles placed is called BAIT AND SWITCH. I let them KNOW about it too and they took the DRIVES part out of their newspaper advertisement they ran. Them telling the truth on this horse lasted all of about a week and it only gets better or worse really.

    Dance Hall Doctor sold right away for well over $3000. The person who bought him then returned him to Mr. and Mrs Aichele. Since they placed an untruthful and false ad on this horse a month ago, I decided to keep an eye on him. My friend emailed Mrs. Aichele and asked her why the horse was returned. Her response was the horse was returned because he could only be ridden in a group with other horses. When the new owner separated him from her riding companions, he started prancing around. She stated she was going to take him out the next day alone herself- with her head injury that keeps her out of work. Well it makes sense that he was afraid. He was insecure as he had been leading pack strings with other horses for a few years. This horse is unsafe to ride alone and will probably need to be worked with by whoever buys it.

    Today New Years Day I found another ad on Horseville placed by Lorraine and Robert Aichele on this same horse Dance Hall Doctor. His price is down to $2500. This ad disturbed me so much I felt it was my duty to write a complaint against Family Equine of Central NY. I left a couple sentences out because of the ad length but Here is the link:
    http://www.horseville.com/php/view.php?id=127397
    It says:
    Disciplines Youth; Western Pleasure; Trail Horse; PARADES; Pack Horse; Lesson Horse; English Pleasure; DRIVING; All-Around; 4-H;
    Big Blue Roan warmblood dead quiet, good for beginners, use to packing out on trail as lead horse or pack horse, has seen tons of trails
    607-898-3808 for more info. www.family Merry Christmas all and GOD BLESS.

    These people are STILL placing false and untruthful advertisements on this horse. Not only are they advertising him as a DRIVING horse STILL- now they are advertising him as a horse that PARADES. This is disgusting.
    What if someone were to buy this horse without seeing it first like the other person did who wrote the first complaint and then hooked this horse up to a wagon. How dangerous would that have been? What if someone bought this horse because they advertised he as being is so well trained he PARADES? This is NO driving horse and NO parade horse AND THEY KNOW IT. This horse was returned because he was afraid to be away from the other horses. This is a horse that came from a former Dude Ranch in Maine who led pack strings or worked as a pack horse ONLY. The Aicheles admitted that this horse MAY have had SOME driving experience because they put a harness on him and are STILL to date 1/1/ 2008 advertising him as a DRIVING HORSE. Now they have added on that he is a PARADE horse too.

    I say if ANYONE gets hurt because Robert and Lorraine Aichele placed false misleading lie-assing advertisements then these people should be held ACCOUNTABLE if someone gets hurt or worse yet- killed.

  • Ma
      2nd of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    Mrs. Camacho,
    According to NYS Sales Tax Laws, Robert and Lorraine Aichele were responsible for collecting the NYS 8% Sales Tax at the time of sale when you bought your horse.

    Based on the price of your horse at $2600, they should have collected an additional $208 from you, and noted that on your receipt. Total purchase price would have been $2808.

    I would contact Robert and Lorraine Aichele and demand that they issue you a Duplicate receipt. If they added in the sales tax on the $2600, that was incorrect.

    You do NOT have to pay the Sales Tax. Contact the NYS Department of Taxation and Finance in a couple of months to inquire if they did pay it. If they didn't, you will need to fill out Form ST-141. Attach a copy of your receipt as well as information on who you bought the horse from and why you are paying the 8% Sales Tax and include a check for $206.

    They may make the claim that they used your horse in lessons at their NFP Patchwork before selling him to you thus making him Tax Exempt. Any horse that is bought for the purpose of Re-sale for a profit "IN THE SAME YEAR" is subject to 8% Sales Tax.

    Send me an email if you have any questions.

    Maria CPA

  • Sh
      8th of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    Family Equine's new posting on their website states:

    "You must have written permission to download any written material from our website. This is unlawful to do so"

    They are incorrect. Any written or photographic material that they have placed on their website or any other equine website for public viewing can be downloaded and saved in a computer hard-drive, disk, OR PDF if needed as EVIDENCE by any law enforcement agency to be used in a court of law or for other legal purposes. This includes, but is not limited to, archived dated & cached websites. All web pages are saved in various search engines for this purpose.

    PDF means Protected Data Format. PDF takes a snapshot of a particular website which is not downloaded to a disk or hard-drive but saved as a Document in Adobe. Once PDF saves a web page to PDF for read or print only- the document date is protected and cannot be altered, forged, or falsified in any way, shape or form.

  • Sh
      8th of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    New Posting on Family Equine website:

    "To harass, stalk, defame and incite anyone against a honest business trying to offer horses to Central New York at reasonable prices is totally unbelievable and illegal."
    It sure is illegal to harrass, stalk and defame Bob and Lorraine. You did it to me- when you named one of your 4-Sale horses after ME- on your Website - your SICK way of taunting, harrassing, stalking, intimidating, and blackmailing me- A Cops wife besides - because I filed a complaint. It didn't end there, you advertised on Horsetopia- naming a horse after me - and what did they do? AGREED with me and they have 0pened up a complaint file against you - AND contacted you about it as they conveyed to me. You also used my Name on Whinny.org- calling me a Horse Thief- more of your SICK ###.
    Pat Banker from Whinny.org yanked the Ad- and told you to NEVER write an accusatory ad like that again.

    You are absolutely right, the buyer makes the final decision when buying a horse. BUT, your advertisements that YOU posted on the internet - letters YOU emailed to me- Conversations that WE had - all said that you bought my horse directly off the ranch of a well respected horse trainer. Instead, I discovered he was bought from a HORSE AUCTION. Your false, deceptive and misleading advertisements SWAYED me into buying McGoo SIGHT UNSEEN. YOU misled me. I trusted you based on what you WROTE - and what BOB said on the phone-and I didn't have to. Thats just how I am. Trusting to a fault.
    I am SICK TO DEATH of you two crying and whining that you are the ones who have been VICTIMIZED. By the time I am done paying for this horse's training- I will have spent at least $7000 by the time he is done- BECAUSE OF YOU and the $2600 for the horse and ALL the VET and FARRIER bills. My tab will be about $12,000.

    You are not out one F'N stinking measly red cent- YOU are not the ones going through the stress and heartache that I have. I was so happy when I bought McGoo- looking forward to riding him all summer- and it turned out to be a nightmare the day he arrived. I would never have traded him in for another horse- I was done doing business with you for good the VERY DAY McGoo was delivered to me in such neglected condition. You are two people that I could never trust.

    I have NEVER seen a business take complaints so personally that they would bawl about it on their website- a website that customers LOOK AT. Don't you realize that you are DIRECTING those people to LOOK UP the complaints on the internet? You are your own worst enemy.

    By the looks of another complaint filed against you- she has been through worse Hell than I have- going on 2 years.

    If your customers have made complaints against you- then SUCK IT UP and GROW UP. LEARN FROM IT. The complaints board is all about Freedom of Speech. Its all about helping other consumers and to help the business improve their service. Thats life. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen and get into another line of work where the Customer is always WRONG.

    I am a forgiving person and its not up to me to judge you. If I continue to judge you- then God will judge me in the same way. I am done. I am putting this in HIS hands . This has made me emotionally and physically sick and I am ending it here.

  • Sh
      9th of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    HORSETOPIA EMAIL:
    Hello Shelley,

    Thank you for providing us with the additional information about your complaint against Robert & Lorraine Aichele's ads. We have entered an
    official complaint and we have contacted the seller.

    If criminal charges have been filed or a lawsuit has been won against the seller, we'd appreciate it if you could provide us with the details.

    Additionally, if there have been any instances of stalking, intimidating, and harassing besides the advertisement of a horse with your name, please
    let us know (and forward any relevant messages to us) so we can address that with the sellers.

    Like I said, we do keep all complaints on
    file, and if we do determine in the future that this seller has a pattern of misleading ads or abusing our service, we will not hesitate to remove
    the account.

    Best wishes,
    Daphne

  • Sh
      11th of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    Family Equine's new shipment of horses will be arriving after January 20, 2008. Their updated website advertisement brags:

    "Robert will be traveling to the West to get a load of good ranch horses that have all have been working in the feedlots! Ready after the 20th of January. These horses come from CJ Oakwood.

    C.J. Oakwood is their good old boy. He is a Livestock Auctioneer in Illinois and owns and operates CJ Cattle Company. Family Equine buys former worked to death feedlot horses from CJ and then offers them for resale in New York. They also truck horses to C.J. to unload the horses they can't sell. "You know, "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine."

    C.J. is an avid supporter of HORSE SLAUGHTER and wigged out when hearings were being held and finally, the last remaining horse slaughterhouse was closed down for good this past summer in Dekalb, Illinois.

    Here are a few of CJ's rantings and ravings I found on the internet so potential customers of Family Equine can get a gist of the "characters" of the people and business associates that they surround themselves with.
    Heres CJ's website:
    http://www.cattleco.com/overview.htm

    Copied from the-
    FARM AND RANCH GUIDE

    "Horse slaughter ban would be a blow to production agriculture"

    C.J. Oakwood wrote on Feb 13, 2007 9:50 AM:

    " Our politicians have not a clue what is going to happen to the equine industry and the welfare of horses IF WE BAN THE PROCESSING OF HORSE MEAT FOR EXPORT. .
    The ANIMAL / TREE HUGGERS in this country need to find another planet to live on before they ruin this one.
    FOR ALL THOSE " HORSE HUGGERS"... what are you going to do with these animals if we cannot dispose of them???
    I PERSONALLY THINK WE SHOULD HAVE HORSE MEAT AVAILABLE AT THE IGA! If anyone thinks hitting a deer with your vehicle is a bad deal.....try hitting a horse that has been turned loose by its owner....you will probably die...seat belt on! "

    Updated: Jun 17, 2007 - 01:29:45 am CDT
    Daily Chronicle Online Dekalb Illionois
    OPINIONS:

    In Our View: Message to Judge and Cavel Inc.: Enough is enough

    CJ OAKWOOD wrote on Jun 20, 2007 4:17 PM:

    " "Why is Belgium telling United States judges what they should do in regards to American laws? Judge Kapala accepted a letter from Belgium that attempts to sway his decision in favor of horse slaughter. I think we need to let Belgium know that we Americans will not stand for any country dictating to us which of our laws is constitutional or not" KEEP PROCESSING HORSES!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

    Cow-Calf Weekly Mailbag December 31, 2004

    HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH SAVING HORSES
    Apparently Rep. John Sweeney (R-NY) and Sen. John Ensign, DVM (R-NE) don't have a clue ("Horse Slaughter Ban Poses Broad implications"). How did Ensign get through vet school?

    I will SUPPORT NCBA 100% on FIGHTING this piece of legislative FECAL MATERIAL ! I hope R-CALF gets on the wagon, too.
    The next thing these NUTS will try to do is stop the harvesting of beef, pork and chicken!
    C.J. OAKWOOD
    CattleCo Data Systems
    Oakwood, IL

    I don't know of any REPUTABLE Equine business who would associate with or buy horses for resale from someone who writes nasty ### like this. Selling horses for slaughter are his meal ticket. He could care less if they are sent to slaughter and in the violent manner in which these horses are killed (in Mexico they stab them to death with a dagger).

    If anyone buys a horse that came from CJ OAKWOOD, they are in essence keeping him in the horse auction/ slaughter business. Please consider to NOT buy horses that are sold at auction. If you feel you are saving a horse, you are doing just that.... saving ONE. But if you STOP buying horses that are sold at Auction, you will be saving thousands or more in the end.

    Legislation is in the works to pass into Law banning the transporting of horses outside of the United States for slaughter.

    This is GOOD. This Law will shut down the irreputable horse auctions once in for all . Once that happens, irresponsible horse owners won't be able to dispose of their unwanted healthy, sick, lame, disabled, elderly, pregnant, horses and foals at the most disgusting and disgraceful auctions in the US just to make a buck. They will be forced to spend the $50 to have their horses humanely euthanized- rather than stabbed to death in Mexico or Stun-Gunned in Canada.

    Before buying a horse from a Horse Dealer and not a well-known reputable Equine establishment, ask where the horses came from. Feedlot horses have been worked into the ground. They work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, for years on end. They walk on concrete in many situations, drag semi trailer truck tires, work in rain, sleet, snow, and windy dust bowls. They start their day at 3 am moving 1000s of head of cattle and herding them into the trucks bound for slaughter. Their frustrated "cowboys" spur and whip them to keep moving the cattle. They are rammed by cattle, fall down, and after a hard days work- put in a stand stall for a few hours. They are not groomed or brushed out, feet picked, or loved .... once the horses finally give out from all of the hard work.... they are sent to auction.

    PLEASE BE A RESPONSIBLE HORSE BUYER!

  • Su
      15th of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    I wasn't busy so I read Shelley's lengthy commentary about her horse experiences and expertise. I'm wondering what kind of score this composition piece would receive from any 12th English teacher?

    People like Shelley Camando are the reasons I would not want to sell horses or give lessons to the public. Horses are prey animals - not washing machines. They don't operate the same for everyone or in every environment. I think Shelley can buy lots of washing machines, but I wouldn't want my laundry going to her.

    I cannot imagine buying a horse without looking at it and handling it, then riding it before I purchased it. But I realize there are many people who do. Even doing so one can still get surprises not bargained for when the horse comes homes. 'Let the buyer beware' is the premise our society's marketplaces were founded on.

    Live and let live, and learn. Then build a bridge!

  • Sh
      15th of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    Actually, I got straight A's in college, was on the Deans List, a member of the Journalism Club, have had short stories, essays, and editorials published in major newspaper editions, well known magazines, been posted on respected websites, spoken on television but that is neither here nor there.

    I totally agree with you. I had my head up my ### to trust two totally complete strangers ###ting lie-assing website advertisements, email letters, mouth diarrhea, and then buy a horse sight from them sight unseen besides.

    If I wasn't so sick at the time, I would have driven the 100 miles to the Aicheles farm to see and ride McGoo first. My husband is a Cop, drives like one which scares the hell out of me- so I do all of the driving.

    From what I have been told, their farm is a dump and no where near the professional equine facility they make it out to be. Had I visited their farm, I probably would have backed out of their driveway 10o miles an hour and not even gotten out of the car.

    Good thing for the Aicheles that I didn't take the drive, I would have inspected every single animal on their property as far as the eye can see.
    Thats what I DO - SUE. Hey, I'm a poet and didn't know it.

    I wouldn't even attempt to clean up all your dirty laundry if you get my drift.

  • Ni
      18th of Jan, 2008
    0 Votes

    Hello
    My family owns a small rescue in Pa .we only take in horses that people don’t want to stop the process of them getting sent to New Holland I have seen the worst of that place. But even horse rescues are now turning in to horse dealers..the horse rescues now put horses on there for 3 thousand but say they saved them from slaughter. The dealers are all for horse slaughter because it keeps them in business it’s sick .
    I am so sorry about what happened to you. It happened to a girl I knew at a local barn. they told her the horse was sound and had been in some shows (supposedly did quite well) He was a little shaky when she got him and they said it was just from the trailer ride (the dealer only lives in New Jersey) when they had a vet come out a couple days later he said the horse was lame and should not be ridden hard or jumped. She told us the dealer just said all deals were final. After a couple weeks the girls trainer told her he would be fine if they used him for her lessons ( she was a jumping nut) she jumped him so much over a month’s time he went permanently lame and what I have heard last of the poor horses fate is he ended up getting put down. Also the same girl had purchased a paint with nuvicular that we had bought from her so it did not end up going to New Holland. So it made me happy to hear that you went through a lot to help what was wrong with McGee and did not just give up so hopefully more people will look in to who their buying a new horse from .
    Happy trails
    Nicole of every horse has a purpose rescue

  • No
      11th of Sep, 2008
    0 Votes

    I hadn't looked at this site in quite some time because every time I do it just makes me angry.

    Susan Eicher needs to know that while Shelley Camacho bought her horse from the Aicheles sight unseen, I did not. I bought a horse from them in 2002. It was the biggest mistake of my life and I hope other people will realize by reading these posts that these are not honest, trustworthy people.

    I purchased Hilo Valley from them in 2002 after seeing him on the website and visiting numerous times to ride and spend time with him to be sure he was right for me. He was advertised to be a "trail horse, Western Pleasure, longe-line, lesson horse, 4-H horse. NO VICES. And I have to say he rode wonderfully at their farm. Quite as could be...and so I thought this is the horse for me. I had explained to Bob and Lorraine when I first met them and looked at Hilo Valley that I was a rank beginner and would need a horse that would "take care of me". Dead broke was what I wanted. They assured me that this was the horse for me.

    So after many visits I bought the horse and had him transported to the barn where my daughter boarded her horse. My dream was that we would spend many happy hours trail riding together.

    When we brought him to the barn we wanted to give him a few days to settle in and get used to the other horses and the routine. I spent those few days grooming him and getting to know him. The first time I tried to ride him was in a small indoor arena with a trainer to give me lessons. Immediately after I got on him he took off at a dead run and rounding the corner of the arena he threw me off. I landed on my side up against a concrete wall. My trainer then caught the horse and got on him herself. She stated that this was not a beginners horse, that she would never put any of her students on him and that he was too unpredictable and nervous. Also that she felt that I had done nothing to precipitate his behavior.

    So, I limped off home and spent the next week sleeping sitting up in a recliner due to the cracked ribs I received in the fall. My entire left side was bruised from my shoulder to my knees and I missed several days of work.

    I couldn't understand what had gone wrong. I had ridden this horse at the Aicheles and had no problems and yet here I was having big issues with him now. I felt that there must have been something I had done wrong and so I decided to give him another chance. When I was healed enough to try again I got on him one more time under much more cautious conditions only to have the exact same result.

    Needless to say I was not going to get on him again. So I decided to have him evaluated by several people who are expert horsemen (and women). All of them told me the same thing, "this is NOT a beginners horse" and he should not be ridden by anyone without extensive experience. They all also felt that since the horse was sooooo quiet when I rode him at the Aicheles that he was most likely drugged as they could not see any other way I could have ridden him.

    I did contact the Aicheles throughout this entire process. While they did offer to "help" me out, they never admitted that this horse was unsafe. They took him back and offered me another horse which I took to my barn... this one apparently had strangles and was promptly returned. They offered to sell the horse for me but that because of the poor weather, sales of trail horses was very slow. But they would board him for $10.00 per day until he sold (which could take a long time). Or they would buy him back for 20% less than I paid for him.

    In retrospect I probably should have sold him back to them because I lost a bundle of money in boarding and resale fees on this horse. However, after seeing the way they treated their horses and hearing other horror stories about them, I just couldn't do it. This was a nice horse "on the ground" all he needed was someone experienced to work with him.

    I felt I would never be able to ride him again (and in fact am too scared to get on another horse now) so I took a tremendous monetary loss but found him a very good home with someone who has the experience to ride and train him.

    I would strongly advise anyone considering buying a horse from Aicheles Family Equine to spend time there getting to know the horse, find out where it really came from and what its' background is, and get something in WRITING regarding what the horse is capable of and what its' temperment is.

    No, you know what, I wouldn't reccomend any buying a horse from them.

  • Ny
      16th of Feb, 2011
    0 Votes

    I completely agree, I have been to their farm and it was a dump. We bought a dead broke lesson horse from them for my sister, paid $900 and the thing threw her off everytime she sat down, was sent to an auction and we got $150 for him. At the same time we bought a red roan gelding that was dead broke, team penned and roped (also a barrel prospect). I sent him to a roping trainer and the horse had never seen a box in his life and was scared to death. He then flipped out one day rearing and thrashing and I spent 2 days in E.R. and have permanent brain damage as a result from this horse that was so dead broke and quiet. One that I paid $1200 for and cost me a life time of pain.

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