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World Ventures Complaints & Reviews - Scam

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World Ventures

Posted:    Thomas

Scam

Complaint Rating:  29 % with 197 votes
Contact information:
World Ventures
United States
I really think it's great your friend wants to lose money to support the few at the top. It's very stupid but some folks are just generous that way. Please don't lend any of your money when he/she is broke and can't pay the rent.


Comments United States Products & Services
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 11th of Apr, 2010 by   CharlesS 0 Votes
World Ventures tells you to con your friends and family into going to one of their events. Don't tell them what they're actually going to, just invite them somewhere. That says it all. If they encourage you to lie to your friends and family initially why wouldn't the lie just keep going. They know full well nobody wants to get involved in this type of thing so lying is the only way to get you in the door. It's like the car dealership telling you there's a ridiculously low priced new car - but oops it's been sold already.

This type of scheme prays on the desperate and the greedy. The greedy may have the cash to lose, but the desperate do not. Just this weekend a rep, Martin Ruof, encouraged the audience to buy in even if they couldn't afford to. He said "you can't afford not to" and went on to tell those people to just use their credit cards. I imagine its this type of thing that got them into debt in the first place and now has them looking for a way out. Very responsible WorldVentures.

Imagine going to apply for a job and the interviewer tells you to pay $360 dollars to join the company and then puts you on 100% commission. Nobody would do it. But when you add some razzle dazzle to it - "who wants to take a vacation?" then it becomes sugar coated sweetness.

I feel sorry for those people who get conned into this. These people play altruistic intent in an effort to make themselves rich. Hey, you're helping all those people you recruit right?

And it is true that most often the Rovia rates are higher. You can try it out yourself, though it takes a little digging to find a WV reps site.

I hope you don't sign up if you're still thinking about it - and don't listen to the supposed "voices of reason" here from World Ventures. The devil isn't going to tell you that hell is hot - he's just going to make sure you get there.
 14th of Apr, 2010 by   bfizz -2 Votes
Everyone against World Ventures is a dumbass and know nothing about it. Have fun being a poor loser
 21st of Apr, 2010 by   berwynman 0 Votes
They're not even listed in the better business bureau.
 5th of May, 2010 by   Wilson21 +1 Votes
My point is I'd buy into this if the travel deals were legitimate. Additionally, they never tell you that the packages don't include airfare. Reading other comments regarding the price of these offers being higher than Travelocity, Expedia and others make this a fraud and scam. The sales pitch is indeed misleading and these guys know it. I am very disappointed with their actions. Don't fall for the lies! I'm so glad I didn't and pleased there is a forum like this to confirm my doubts.

Wilson
 9th of May, 2010 by   AngMKlin 0 Votes
Does not mean anything to be an accredited BBB member. WalMart, Target, Expedia, Orbitz, and hotwire are not accredited and look how huge they are!!! As for airfare why would they included that when prices vary from airport to airport?? The ones it includes say it right up front and that you have to go to a certain airport to fly from! They show it in the fine print people overlook! It is WV marketing tactic when they say invite but don't tell them were they are going to. Everytime I go to a Mary Kay, Avon, or Body Essentials at home party they try their hardest to get you to buy into their product and business! It is not lying to them and we don 't pressure people into getting involved if they don't want to. The people that got involved in the company and that are not seeing the sucess did not put much work into getting started. They expected to do nothing and get rich quick. This is clearly not a get rich quick business and they clearly tell you that! You can't expect to get your 4 people and not work at it any more. We all help each other on the team! You have to help the people under you just like any other business! I have done the research my self when comparing the traveling comapanies recently. They are comparible to other places. You have to remember the savings really comes in when you are a member just like Sam's Club. Is Sam's Club a scam??? Not...If this was a pryamid scam then they would have been closed a long time ago and I would not have gotten any money recently!!! For those that don't want to be a WV Rep anymore how can you expect to get a refund on a business you started? That would be like starting a Store business and deciding to back out and get a refund after you bought the products and building. You can sell your spot to a potential buyer for a fransaction fee of $50 look it up on your back office. Happy to be a WV Rep!!!
 10th of May, 2010 by   kfree 0 Votes
First off you have to read what's on their website, I don't know about you but I read everything when it come to me spending money and that's every where not just online, so let me break this down to you if you didn't make any money that don't mean it's a scam, let's take a look at that word "SCAM" which means I paid money for a service or product which I didn't receive back in return, that's the meaning and if you didn't make money with the company my guess is you wasn't taught right or you are just lazy and you thought the money was going to come pouring in, with any type of business you will have to work hard and I mean hard you will need to be a leader which most people know nothing about so people stop complaining because it's not for everybody work a home base business maybe you was doin it for the wrong reason I don't know, all I know it's about helping each one teach one so maybe it was your upline not the company in most cases, My advise to you get educated first before getting involved in anything.
 16th of May, 2010 by   The Voice of Wisdom +1 Votes
This is a great opportunity for any idiot that decided not to go to college. Spending a couple hundred bucks to buy the chance of getting out of working for $5.75 an hour for the rest of one's life must be enticing; however, it's these same people that are most vulnerable of getting suckered. In reality, this is all really sad. It's more false hope to a group of people who were either not smart enough or didn't work hard enough to excel in life through school and now don't want to work at the going hourly wage. If you're really considering this as an option then please stop lying to yourself.
 27th of May, 2010 by   CharlesS +1 Votes
Why is it that WV reps are always so angry? It is quite the opposite of their kinder dance they do when trying to dupe other into joining with them. The idea that you are going to be able to take so many vacations when the majority of members are duped in because they can't afford them is ridiculous. I imagine the vitriol we see from WV reps is due to their buying into a ruse which they must defend in an attempt to get their money back. The 300 or so to sign up is nothing compared to the cost of all the learning dvds, cds and the "events" they have for members. When will WV get out of the momentum stage anyway?
 31st of May, 2010 by   hibluesky -1 Votes
Doesn't it all come down to the quality, integrity, ethics and empathy displayed by each individual. If any rep is a dishonest, greedy pig - what can you expect? Fortunately in this rather sick world there are also honest caring people who do have the best interests of their friends at heart. WV reps in my area are an enthusiastic bunch of very caring Christians. They support each other and conduct their business ethically. I have not come across any adverse words or actions except for some rather over zealous testimonies from a few very successful reps at a training session which included people from all walks of life, religions etc. No one organization should be slammed for the conduct of people who have effectively bought into a franchise. As a new rep I have been impressed by the ethics of the company and the efficiency of the back office and training systems. WV has strict rules for reps - if you break them you forfeit your membership and you have to wait a year before re-applying. I don't get the impression that they're out to hoodwink anyone. In the U.K. they took ages to ensure the correct legal framework was in place before opening. They're in it for the long haul and their expansion program in Europe proves it!

As a teacher, I've spent my life being 'exploited' by the establishment on a fixed salary with no financial incentive to 'go the extra mile for students' except my care for my students. WV offers me an additional source of income and an opportunity to treat my family to a great holiday. A positive attitude and hard work is all it takes to be successful. Those who try deceiving others can't have much self-respect! hibluesky
 9th of Jul, 2010 by   peter ellis 0 Votes
That is rubbish what is said by tmtx. Whether the rep is self-employed or not is immaterial. He was acting for and on behalf of the Company and was impliedly authorised to act in the way he did. It is the Company who is liable, not the rep, and if I were in the position of the lady called "her" I would have sued the Company in the local County Court or if in the USA whatever small claims Court applies.

Believe me, I am a solicitor, and I have spent my life with legal Actions, the Company will refund this dear lady's money very promptly because they cannot be bothered going to Court for small claims, where it is time consuming and you do not get legal costs, so it costs them more to defend. They are thinking of this all the time and are effectively thumbing their noses at people daring them to get serious.

If this lady does as I say she is very likely to recover her money without even going to Court.

P.N. Ellis
 13th of Jul, 2010 by   all-world-ventures-good-4-r-free-meals +1 Votes
This guy wants to sign me up into World Ventures...does he think I'm dumb? Like that I'm going to sign my life away and join some kinda scheme. I might have graduated from college and seem a bit desperate for money but college taught me some things, not to believe in PUNKS who can't make money legitimately and need to target those who are vulnerable.

Ha, he doesn't even know it but maybe I'm using him for the free meals that he buys me thinking he can make some money out of me...I'm 2 steps ahead mister.

Someone from World ventures is obviously pissed off that FORMER REPS are SPEAKING THE TRUTH! Shut up cause NO ONE HEARS YOU!

The truth is whenever someone paint's you a BEAUTIFUL PICTURE like (TRAVELING TO BEAUTIFUL PLACES) and says they are making (SO MUCH MONEY without details) it's already obvious they are in desperate need to get themselves out of the scam they got into...I appreciate former reps! THANKS!

Let's make this shit illegal!
 25th of Jul, 2010 by   Place to Remember 0 Votes
In my opinion World Ventures is one of the best choices in multilevel marketing companies today. Most of the discussions are about the fact if you agree or disagree with multilevel marketing. It is not a discussion about World Ventures.

World Ventures has a clear compensation model and ofcourse you can earn more if you start your own business. But do not forget you have to start up your company with a lot of additional costs and with World Ventures you start running. You get for example the following website http://arjen.worldventures.biz which looks good and provides a lot of information to the general public. Everybody can decide of this leisure products is what they really want. If not they do not join, it is that simple.

Ofcourse nobody should expect to be rich with World Ventures, but it is a nice way to earn something extra.

Arjen
http://www.placetoremember.com
 26th of Jul, 2010 by   hibluesky 0 Votes
Well said Arjen!
 26th of Jul, 2010 by   KD2003 +1 Votes
I just attended a Wedding Fair and WorldVentures was there...offering a free vacation to Cancun...let me state...A FREE Vacation. When I was telephoned that I recently won the trip. I wasn't the only one that won. According to the representative I spoke with at the Wedding Fair in CC, TX, ONLY ONE person was going to Win! He stated over the phone that I was one of several Brides to Be that won. This then I knew that there was something fishy about this organization. There is more to this Honeymoon trip than I know. If this trip was scott free, I would definately take advantage of the gift...since it dosen't seem to be this way, I will declined and not waste my time. I have so many important tasks on my agenda for my wedding, and the last thing I need is to be a victim of a SCAM! They shouldn't be allowed to be at Wedding Fairs...I just may send a report to the BBB or Attorney General of Texas which prohibits of soliciting the Pyramid Way of Earning Money by recruitment. If they want to be a recruiter, why not join the U.S. Military and do something of worth and HONOR!
 20th of Aug, 2010 by   jayhitchens +1 Votes
Wanna make less than $1000 over the next year? Join world ventures as a sales rep. Seriously...'cause if you're part of the 99% of their sales rep, that's all you're gonna make.

Just go to the company's own website - www.worldventures.biz - and click on "Income Disclosure Statement" -- here is the direct link:

https://www.worldventures.info/pdfs/incomedisclosure.pdf


AVERAGE YEARLY COMMISSION EARNED BY THE ACTIVE REP: $193.
One level up: average yearly commission of qualified rep: $684.
Two levels up: Average yearly commission of $4802.00 (which is just 0.582% of the independent reps)

More than 99% of independent reps are just Qualified Rep or Active Rep. So less than 1% of independent reps are making more than $684.00. This does NOT sound like a good venture / business to get into.

Come on people -- a little research before you throw your money to some unknown organization!

I would welcome someone to argue against this income disclosure statement. Anyone?
 27th of Aug, 2010 by   Skeptical479 +1 Votes
I skimmed through some of these comments and it looks like the ones who think this is a scam are being called slackers by the people who don't think it's a scam. They say that you have to really work at it to make any money. So I guess I would need to quit my steady, full time job with benefits and just focus on this everyday to make it work. Because who has time to really work on this on the side? I know I don't. Between work, the kid's practices and everything else in life I wouldn't be able to find time to make money doing this. I'm definately not going to quit my job to focus on this. And my conscience wouldn't allow me to try and sell my friends and family a pyramid scheme. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night which would again make me unable to focus on this to make money. No thank you!!!
 4th of Sep, 2010 by   WV is spreading around the globe +1 Votes
My friend got sucked into this retarded pyramid scheme and tried to get me to join...

When I said I would "think about it" and let them know the next day my friend was all like "great let me know, you won't regret it!"
The next morning I've texted that friend saying thanks but no thanks and got a very angry text saying "you've told your family haven't you?! they are the dream catchers!! they want to rob you from your happiness!!"

Really?!?!? oh my god I better freaking stop talking to my family as they obviously don't want what's best for me if they say they don't want me to pay a shitload of money for a pyramid scheme!!

Did my friend really think i would think my husband is a dream crusher because they said so?!

Freaking hell, please the people who are thinking of joining...DON'T!!
You will eventually become as brainwashed as my friend and start turning your friends against their family and friends just so you would pay them money...

Also, Herbalife is a freaking scam aswell!!
 4th of Sep, 2010 by   John Burchardt 0 Votes
First of all, I appologize for this being so long, but it's a MUST READ for anyone who is thinking about joining WV. Below, I have posted actual e-mails sent from a WV rep who is part of the upline from a friend of mine.

E-mail number 1: My response to a facebook request about WV -

Got your face book message so I decided to do some research:
Fact: in the last 4yrs just less than 3 out 4 people made $0.00
of those who did actually earn some money, over 80% made less than $25/yr over that four period, their costs equate to over $600/yr a loss of $575/yr.
Then there's the next level, approximately 15%, who made $175/yr, that's better, only a loss of $425/yr
Now the final stage of level 1, the Senior reps about 1.5% actually were able to earn a profit of $100-600/yr.
So now you get to go up to the next level after generating the oganization ($200x180=$36K) + (25x12x180=$54K) = $90K
you know this is a conservative margin that doesn't include any extras that people will utilize like the double membership, which would drastically increase the organization's profit margin.
But if you have made it to this level, and less than 0.75% of the corporate members have, you were fortunate enough to earn an average of $5K/yr. Although it's important to note that there is an $83K difference between the top and bottm earners in this catagory.
Here's the link to WV income disclosure, in case you never noticed it https://www.worldventures.info/pdfs/incomedisclosure.pdf
Dude as a business, this is worse than pre-paid legal, a publically traded company. I wish you luck, but the numbers don't add up for me.

I thought that this was an honest intrepretation of the numbers; notice I still wished my friend luck. He submitted my response to his upline, specifically "Randy".

E-mail #2/#3: The Rep's response - E-mail #3 was my reply to Randy's letter. When I sent this, I just inputted my comments in a different color & font within his original e-mail. I have placed my responses within the brackets {...}.

Hi John. I sent your letter/email to my upline and here is what he wrote in generalization:

Dear Friends,

Hello everyone! I have a question. Do you love Entrepreneurial Freedom and choices as much as my family? I am writing this letter with confidence knowing our world STILL has millions of people with motivated drive and spirit. There is no doubt some of that spirit has been tested these last few years but for us to be associated in a social network and travel with people we love and care about, I am blessed to tell you dreams do come true. Our friends and families are traveling to some of the most fun and beautiful places in the world. It is truly amazing how easy it has become to explore these plush 4 and 5 Star regions at 1 and 2 Star prices! We love our travel club and as our membership continues to grow, can you imagine the quantity and quality of the choices world wide ahead! That being said, a recent Entrepreneurial Friend and business partner of mine received comments back from a person believed to have potential in expanding such a beautiful network as we already experience. To my friends dismay, this emailed letter (see attached and please note the last name has been removed out of respect to the writers privacy) was returned to my friend with a rather short, “No Thanks”.

{Correct me if wrong, but no one can join your social network for free, you must pay to be a part of this. I know dreams can come true, I have a beautiful and two healthy girls.}

I have never received a letter quite like my friend experienced but I have had conversations with good people similar in nature.

{I find it ironic that you know my nature, I'm a college educated individual with a degree in mathematics, who has spent his whole professional career earning a living based upon commissioned income.}

Usually, the discussion turns very favorably to our company WorldVentures. Why? Because most of the time first impression was the person’s reality about something they heard negative in the direct marketing industry and they had a closed mind to choices. Many people, once they take a moment to reflect about the opportunities, based on the proper and truthful information given, make good decisions and decide what is right for them. Additionally, anyone that has known me knows I do my due diligence in research. You don’t fly three times to a corporate headquarters, talk with founders of a business, and not know your facts when you leave. Ok, so I admit that’s maybe over kill but I’ve done it many times. I don’t expect everyone to do that but by doing it I like to save people the headaches of research; especially since some just surf the net and get all confused and depressed. I have learned that Google is a great source of knowledge as long as you keep all the postings in perspective and can separate out the bull if you know what I mean.

{I find it ironic that you are placing yourself into a position that you are a guru of research. I didn't go to google, I went to your website, your financial disclosures, used your numbers, but I'm the bad guy.}

So, the purpose of my letter is to share my opinion with not only those in our business who have confronted similar mindsets like John, the guy who wrote a confused message to my friend (see attached) and I am about to slam back in good nature, but to also give answers which should help prospective new reps and club members in their decision making about our business. No doubt you will meet a few people like John along the way as you build your businesses. I am only using his name and letter to illustrate a mindset you will occasionally face and felt it was time someone wrote down some opinions…and yes I’m a little tough back on JOHN. One more thing, I really took exception to how John closed his letter to my friend Michael, implying Michael may have never looked at or found our IDS Chart (Income Disclosure Statement) which we all are very proud to display publicly. We give it out at public events, travel parties, hotel meetings, luncheons, or any other business overview. We make sure every member of our audience has access to a copy of the IDS. So John, if you take the time to read this writing, I want you to understand, it was not a new discovery,

{More irony; the discovery isn't in the fact you present them to the public, the discovery is how the numbers work.}

also want to preface my comments by saying John certainly has a right to his opinion. However, to pass judgments on business you know very little about as quickly as John did, I think is very short cited and a tunnel vision mentality.

{Far from it. While I may not be a research guru like you, reread my letter you'll see the only thing I trashed was your numbers.}

This type of mentality actually helps breed doubt in those potential winners who statistically are a part of the very numbers “John” likes to complain about. I take attacks on my company very personal and I hope you do too.

{Now this I can understand, I too would be very upset knowing that 3 out 4 of my representatives will never earn a dime, those three people obviously had dreams when the paid to join this club.}

Therefore, if you think my opinion in this letter can increase the positive numbers of successful and happy people please thank me by passing it forward to someone else before they fall into the pool of doubt or despair.

John wants to make a point in his letter to Michael that the ratio of successful WorldVentures representatives, based on our publicly displayed Income Disclosure Statement, is not up to his standard. He said the numbers don’t work for him. I want to make the point, John does not understand the numbers and probably would not be a good candidate or ever qualify to be a leader in WorldVentures until he does understand the numbers.

{I understand the numbers, I just have a hard time promoting a business where almost 75% of the newcomers will never make a dime, but yet the organization was paid.}

Leadership positions are a standard that takes hard work and commitment to achieve. Never say never of course to anything and I think we’d all agree it would be cool if more people could experience total financial independence and promote to the top levels more quickly. In WorldVentures I think they can and will.

{Now this is the happy horseshit you want people to believe...sounds like Enron or Madoff trying to get you to reinvest in their companies.}

The people that experience this will acquire it from STEADY HARD WORK AND STAYING IN THE GAME. What John misses in the WorldVentures opportunity, in lieu of his outlook of the numbers, is the incredibly successful growth the company is having since it began and only in a few short years.

{On the contrary, by charging everyone for the tools the need to succeed, your company is bound to grow. Why not let reps create their own site, marketing materials at their own expense? According to your agreement you can't. So what you do is lock them in order to secure your monopoly.}

Imagine in a few more years how many more multi-millionaires this business will create. Especially when there are Trillions of dollars in the industry and only a hand full of companies marketing it!

{Now who's playing with numbers!}

I also want to mention, discussing examples of Independent Representatives’ earnings, or making income projections, can be considered deceptive by the Federal Trade Commission because, if not done properly, it can create unrealistic expectations or misrepresent someone’s chances of being successful. WorldVentures is committed to “Doing it Right” and the IDS Chart was created with that intent. I regret that “John” did not accept “YET” the opportunity to receive the IDS information from my friend Mike at one of his orientations about WorldVentures. Instead, John probably spent tons of time surfing the net on why not to attend any of Mike’s suggested venues.

{Now this is where we can talk about my nature; Mike is my friend and if he wants to try this God Bless him, but ask yourself this, would you really want me at your orientation knowing that all I'm going to do is ask pointed question about the numbers? Probably not; and as a friend it's better for me to talk to you outside of your big group, so you don't have to keep trying to justify that 3 out 4 will fail.}

(If you surf the net long enough you will also find Bill Gates is considered by some the “Anti-Christ”).

{This is just an assinine statement.}

I guess the great thing about our life in America is we still, as of now, have the choice to decide who’s right or wrong. My father once told me…”Rub elbows with successful people because when you do, it tends to rub off onto you!” My dad is not around anymore but I have passed that on to my children and I’m so glad he said that to me…all of my children are successful and happy and a part of the WorldVentures experience. Unless you are wildly more successful than guys like my friend Mike, it never hurts to check out and LISTEN rather than talk as you might pickup something that will help you in your quest for a happier and more successful life. Remember, your mind is like a parachute, it only works when it’s open. As I share my thoughts and purpose of this letter, I want everyone to know WorldVentures is MY CHOICE for a business that is FUN, allows me to make NEW FRIENDS, and offers me choices in additional income and discounted product opportunities in TRAVEL.

{Take out the word travel, and you have the mantra of every other organization. Every Shepperd needs sheep, but beware of the black one, for he may lead the flock away to greener pastures;}

Please read John’s letter to Michael now if you haven’t already and then read my thoughts regarding it below: (e-mail #1 - above)

It has always been my belief that first impressions and perceptions of certain issues, and pre-judgment in character of certain people, many times becomes the judging person’s permanent reality about that person. I think that’s unfortunate. I also believe, no judging person’s negative perception ever has to become the other person’s reality… unless that person being judged is just too weak to stand up for what they believe. I am glad “John” wrote this letter to my friend.

{For the record, I judge no one, God hasn't given that right. Fortunately, he has blessed me with some skills, numerical analysis being one of them.}

After review of my thoughts regarding John’s comments, if John requests an application for consideration into our company, I hope he will be accepted.

{I wonder about your meaning of accepted; are speaking of it in the group sense or the corporate sense? Because I'm sure WV would have no problem taking my money.}

Then, with the strongest of positive convictions, I hope John will also help others to succeed.

{My goal in this world is to make it a better place. I went back to school to become a high school math teacher and a coach, so I agree wholeheartedly with this.}

Too many people in the world today think they are expected or judged to fail. Then they simply give up and are told in life what to do every day.

{This is society's problem. However on the flip side, to many are told never to give up, keep paying into the system, eventually your hard work will pay off. Just continue to do what we tell you to do...see sheep reference above.}

WorldVentures offers a new choice in life.

{For a small fee.}

We want to help people live happy! We MAKE A LIVING…LIVING!

If you’ve read John’s assessment from his research, you will see he likes numbers. Personally, I don’t like numbers…but I understand them. I like people better than numbers.

{As an American businessman you know that people are numbers, the fact is that numbers control everything...Galileo said everything we see, hear, touch, smell, or taste is related to numbers. Think about your FICO score}

There is a paradox to point out to John’s analysis. Both fortunately, and unfortunately, the numbers John used are relatively accurate.

{Thank you for that!}


What John doesn’t get, (not to assume he never will, many people have changed their opinions after meeting our team),

{got to love the power of persuation}

are several key things not mentioned and why the numbers are what they are. To the best of my knowledge, John has not taken the time to understand our view points and to his defense, he probably has not thought about it much in his decision making. So…here are my thoughts:
The fact that most people (approx 70.2%) do not earn a commission is right. Never as a WV representative do you have to be defensive about this statistic. Quite the contrary, when you understand the numbers, you understand the opportunities. Our business takes WORK and people must APPLY themselves to it. Most people don’t apply themselves, don’t give it the time it needs, or they simply are not good at it and not willing to learn the skills it takes to be successful. I don’t know why more people don’t apply themselves but it’s just the numbers. I know in my personal situation I’ve earned more than I’ve put in, invited people into my business, and eliminated any overhead expense of owning my business in less than 4 months. That’s right…zero overhead expense! We call the concept “Get 4 sales and pay no more!” In my opinion, ANY one can do this, but for what ever reasons, most people won’t.

{Now this, I find very interesting. In otherwords, you should have no problem showing people exactly what you made vs. what you spent in that short period of time. Now you have previously mentioned that your kids in WV, how many of them are your 4? Are they making money? Show me better numbers. I'll be more than happy to provide a better observation if it exists.}

John’s letter continues to go through the numbers and levels in the WV business, skewing the numbers and mindset of the memberships relative to people owning the RBS (Representative Business System). I think it’s important to separate those objectives. Of course when you co-mingle product purchases, start-up business system costs, and don’t do much with its part-time income component, it may cost you more than you earn, especially in the beginning.

{Now you see that's what I'm talking about, "it may cost you more;" a totally honest person would say, "it WILL cost you more!"}

This does not happen to everyone but the numbers reflect it can happen.

{Again why not say they reflect more often than not that it does and will happen to most of you.}

If you don’t understand the value in the services provided or the positioning of your representative placement I can see why you’re a little confused. My expectation has been exactly my reality. For me, WV is a company that you don’t get rich quick and by comparison to other businesses in the industry, the reward is in the residual income established after building your business up and the endless fun. The residual overrides then build infinitely deep the rest of your life! In no way can the current numbers even come close to predicting what is possible. The company is just too young and still in the concentration phase. But for many people who join, this fact alone is what they call “A CLUE” to huge potential. Let’s not forget the fun you have along the way building it! It’s just ridiculous if you take advantage of the products and services and the social networking. So John, I have to ask, did you ever pay for a service or invest in something and not receive a big cash reward right away?

{Yes}

If you have, did the pleasure of that investment or service reward you in other ways?

{Yes}

Did it save you money in the long run?

{maybe}

Did you ever buy a car and make money on it or did you use it for its services only to watch it depreciate?

{Both}

John, what seems to trouble you regarding cost seems like small investments of time and money on the road to great rewards to others.

{Similiar to public's view about educators, afterall we pay teachers way too much to teach for our children.}

Maybe this will put it in a different perspective. I have never been paid to refer anyone to the Face Book social medium…but I’ve referred a ton. I have never been paid to refer anyone to a good movie or restaurant… but I’ve referred a ton. I have belonged, like 57 million people do, to Costco and made many referrals as well. All probably because I wanted to refer people to a place where they could get quantity and quality at wholesale prices. Not once have any of those corporations sent me a check for my referrals and loyalty to their businesses… but I certainly have sent money to them. Is that a loss of revenue to me?

{Only if it costs you money to open your mouth, otherwise there's no cost to you. This would go back to your premise that the objective is to provide others an opportunity to better their lives. So what you have done is to take yourself out of the equation of hoping to get anything in order to help someone else, commendable.}

Of course it is so why do I keep doing it? Could it be because of the products and services sold to me? Ever buy a lotto ticket and lose a dollar?

{every day}

Why did you purchase it?

{It's only a dollar, but more importantly the money goes to schools, (or at least is supposed too).}

Because if you’re not in the game…you’ll never win for sure…and that is a fact. Don’t you bet that’s why most people get in the game but don’t do anything as a business? Are they hoping it will luckily happen? Yes John, they are and it’s the reason the numbers are the way they are, it’s the people and there desire and approach in using those systems and company products. It’s ALSO why there is an opportunity for the ones who do want to work and make it. Could it happen with luck? MAYBE. Luck favors the persistent! When it’s NOT the system or the company holding you back…can the right people at the right time and place make it happen? Absolutely…but you have to buy in the game and it takes time and consistency for sure. I am so proud of the fact that WorldVentures found a way to pay us and put us in position for a chance to win. Priceline only found a way to pay William Shatner. But of course, you do lose money and sometimes save money each time you use their services. Duh.

{The same hold true for any business. Trust me, I understand the opportunity to win, but at what costs? You appear to me to be someone who has a solid financial foundation under your feet, thus in a better position to play the game. What about those who are not as financially fortunate as you? Would you still sign them up knowing they are having all types of financial problems? Sure you would. Because you honestly believe anyone can win, as long as they're willing to pay the price.}

Then John goes on to say in his letter, if you’ve made it to a higher level and less than 1% has thus far, you’ve fortunately earned $5K/yr. I suspect Bill Gates had this same kind of mentality with some of his invited investors back in the day. “Hey…I work my a%# off and I’m only making $5000?” Well…how many of you, including John, earned a $5K raise this year. Many of those earners you cite started working an additional couple hours per week building a business that is just plain FUN!

{Again, your numbers don't prove that. I'm sure those people are working much more than that. You keep mentioning fun, what's so fun about signing up 3 people who you know are statistically going to fail...wait a minute, I used to get that same rush when I sold someone a car I knew they couldn't pay for, but at least they drove a nice car for a few months.}

Maybe their goal was only to fully fund a personal IRA or take better vacations, etc. Once you understand the four phases of business, which are Formulation, Concentration, Momentum, and Stability you begin to understand why the numbers work for many people. Yes, 1% sounds low…higher would be a great goal and higher percentages of huge success would be even better. But less than 1% of “what” are we even citing? There are corporations right now discovering the nation of China who think 1% of Billions is a lot. Starbucks went out and got a 1% share of the 100 Billion coffee industries.

{Bad example, you realize that they have closed over 10% of their corporate owned stores within the last 2yrs? }

they’re at 8 % and climbing …

{time for the research guru to get back to work}

all because they dared to be a little different. It is a fact…if we stay steady in our WV growth in an 8 Trillion Dollar industry, there is going to be a whole lot more 1% people. Who knows, if we do what Starbucks did, we could become representatives of one of the largest corporations on earth. However, if you don’t like the numbers…or the odds in WorldVentures travel opportunities, there are always other opportunities already in the stability stage to invest in. How much does a Starbucks store cost anyway? I don’t even know. I wish John would check that out too. I bet it’s a lot. (Double Duh.)

{They've put a freeze on all new franchise owners, any places that they're openning up will be corporate owned.}


My guess is John has a little distain for Direct Marketing Company’s as he slams another good company in the summary of his letter.

{On the contray, I made money with excel and I made money in Pre-Paid legal. The problem was I personally needed the services, they weren't up to the standards I needed.}

I guess Donald Trump, Warren Buffet, and all the rest of us who work with direct marketing companies should thank you John and come to you for your analytical talents, right?

{Again on the contrary, you probably don't want me around when you numbers are pathetic...I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade, the truth is what it is.}

My personal opinion is John is stuck in the 20th Century, can’t get past the Amway Success Story where less than ½ of 1% ever made it big in the business. The rest of those poor saps just have clean clothes, right? Or maybe John got caught up in a illegal pyramid scheme, some chain letter, or tried to purchase recruits for some business once and found out there’s jail cells for that kind of activity.

{I love this technique, tear me down to eliminate logic and play upon emotion. Every marketing person I know in the industry will appeal to your emotions in selling a product, before appealling to your logic. Why do you think you have so many crazy commercials? We want to appeal to your emotions, because love and hate can easily overtake logic and reason in the consumer's mind. I'll use your fun thing that I just mentioned, what are you selling...emotion not logic. You yourself said earlier that the company's numbers are just too new to draw any type of conclusions; so bye bye logic, hello emotion.}

Ok…calm down. Some people, not just the John’s of the world, still have a fear of multilevel type marketing businesses. Couple that with the fact some people do not have the focus, patience, and skill to build large organizations. IT TAKES TIME

{and money}

TO LEARN OK? Greatness, it turns out, is largely a matter of conscious choice anyway. Still, companies like Amway and Herbalife thrive and are doing it all over again. Direct marketing has become completely main-stream. Companies that are already in the stability phase here in the US realize the opportunities have gotten a little tougher for their new representatives so what do they do? They look over seas. Now China says, “Bring it on!” So what’s to fear? After all, if you had the big numbers that John looks for you’d be born at age 21 when you hatched from your mother and be a multi-millionaire when you’re 22.

{Again, why try to take a personal shot}

Unfortunately, that’s not the numbers you have when you start your company in WorldVentures. That just isn’t the way it works,

{It's not the way it works for any business.}

But think of this! Over seas, it’s a vast world of new opportunity for Billions! So, a little new kid on the block called WorldVentures, with opportunities in THE LARGEST INDUSTRY on the planet, has not even hit momentum yet in the US alone but is already in a dozen countries? Is that another clue? Will WV be in China soon as well? Is WV poised to do it too! Suddenly, ½ of 1% is a pretty large number John.

{What if we taxed all stock transactions @ 1/2 of 1/100 of a percent, could we solve all of our country's financial problems?}

How hard is it to be in the less than ½ of 1 % club anyway?

{With your company, based on the numbers, very difficult to achieve, remember less than 3/4% have made it to that level thus far.}

How long should it take you and how much should you invest over the years in the effort? That may be a choice you have to make…but isn’t it cool you have that choice? I will tell you this for sure. If you get out of the game you have ZERO chance. FIND YOUR PASSION AND STAY IN THE GAME!

{Thanks for supporting my emotional argument}

More people will decide it isn’t worth it than those that do think it’s worth it. Fortunately and unfortunately, numbers like that will probably last forever. Fortunately, my Entrepreneurial Friends love people and want to encourage everyone to try… while having a lot of fun in the process!

{So then pick up the tab...set up a six month free trial program, no strings attached; afterall it's all about the fun and the effort. If you do well and like it, then pay to play. I would think that this a great way to increase your numbers.}

Unfortunately, most will not try…but fortunately, enough do! The numbers are the numbers. Get it? That my friends, lets us collectively as a team, win!

{Another Rally cry}

We intend to not let anyone steal our dreams and we do intend to succeed in our goals. Remember, not everyone should be in our type of business. We need enough worker bees in all areas of our lives to function also or there wouldn’t be any opportunities, right? But if someone has the passion and desire, we should help them all we can. However, NEVER build your business in a desperate, begging, mentality because you want success so badly or you’re in a financial tight spot. Enjoy the ride and always be a pleasant inviter to the people you come into contact with; make sure they’re qualified to be in your enter-circle and deserve your invitation.

{So now are you saying that there as those are not worthy of an opportunity? Sounds the Confederate States just before the civil war, I need slaves so I have the opportunity to thrive...nice.}


Will the numbers of highly successful people in WorldVentures get even greater in the near future? In my opinion absolutely…you can bank on it. But near the conclusion of John’s letter is this comment, “Although it’s important to note that there is an $83, 000 difference between the top and bottom of earners in this category.” Well gee John (lol)…I don’t know about your tax dollars…but mine and millions of my peers, bailed out this year more gapping Executive incomes, relative to the little guy’s wages in corporate America bail out money, than ever before. Why are you citing hard working WorldVenture Entrepreneurial people who used the same system as you’ve been offered?

{Not my intention, in fact it's just the opposite. Your company chose to lump these wage earners into this catagory not me. All I did was point out the difference, you can't live off of 5K/yr, but you can do it on 83K.}

There are thousands of corporations using over paid, miss-managing Executives, right?

{Obviously}

How about our own governments?

{Local, county, state and federal all suck, but why use this example}

Shouldn’t you yap about them? Ok, maybe you do.

{VOTE GREEN PARTY! }

At least working with me and your former

{(DIDN'T KNOW THAT HE IS NOW MY FORMER FRIEND)}

friend Mike, you have a shot at working hard and earning the same dream incomes that some others already enjoy. I think we’ll build it in a fraction of the time too! Think you’ll ever be the corporate leader of Government Motors (formerly General Motors)?

{No}

Why not?

{I wouldn't have elminated Pontiac}

You bailed them out didn’t you?

{I believe it was the crooks in DC}

But like thousands of others you just were not offered the job, right? You certainly would have been paid well! Or did you decline the offer because of the income gap of the entry level employees? I hope you get my point.

{Ironically this catagory wasn't stated as an entry level position...it was the cream of your crop.}

Lastly, John ends his analysis and letter with these words, “Dude as a business, this is worse than pre-paid legal, a publicly traded company, I wish you luck, but the numbers don’t add up for me.” Hmmm. Now John at this point I’m a little confused. What does being or not being publicly traded have to do with your complaints about the numbers?

{First a little group called the SEC, and I never complained about the numbers, I just didn't let emotion bowl me over.}

Or is it just an attempt to further insult my friend Michael’s judgment of business?

{did I not wish him luck? Fuck you, I insulted nobody. If you take offense so be it, I didn't publish the numbers your company did.}

Since you brought it up, I personally would rather deal with a company more concerned about its sales force than its stock holders

{but yet you promote Costco, furthermore don't fool yourself, your company cares about the bottom line}

have it be an international company rather than just national, and have a product EVERYBODY needs and wants, rather than a product I hoped they never needed…and have a lot of FUN while building my organization.

{Pre-paid legal talks about the fun too, in fact I did so well that I won trip to CA, took my daughter deep see fishing and she caught the second largest yellow fin of day, it was totally awesome. But it's not about the fun, it's about the money. If it was then why no free trial period, no refunds?}

Again, we go to 5 Star places at 2 Star prices! We even take $49.00 cruises. Do you? Remember, our tag line is, “MAKE A LIVING…LIVING!” What’s your line…make a living stressing? Got to be a scam, right? Please note, talk bad about my company and I’m going to talk bad about you.

{Boo Hoo, now that's mature. I can't have a logical discussion, so I'll make it personal. Of all the things you said, this is the one statement that I would never let you daughters' see. I bet you a big fan of FOX news, probably a teabagger; hate the government, but don't touch my social security or medicare. They too have a bad habit of personalizing everything, because logically many of their positions, (not all), are unjustifiable.}

It’s like calling my daughters ugly. By the way, they’re beautiful.

{Mine too}

Please answer this question. For $360.00 one time paid in your life to have a business chance with a system in place, beautiful products and beautiful people

{(beatiful people do not utilize personal attacks)}

helping you every step of the way, what is your suggested alternative?

{As I mentioned before, I'll teach children to look and evaluate numbers. I'll show them how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. I'll teach them how take the information and make an itelligent decision. But most importantly, I'll teach them that it is inappropriate to attack another verbally just because you disagree with his/her conclusions.}

Can you show me how to buy a Starbucks for $360.00? Can you direct me to an employer who will let me show up when I want to, leave when I want to and pay me a 6 or 7 digit annual income?

{Bank of America, Chase, Wells Fargo, Citibank, Morgan Stanley any federally employed legislature repsentative, our court system, I'll find you more jobs if need me too}

Do you know that we lost another 131, 000 jobs last month in this country? Do you know there are more people on food stamps in America today than anytime in history? Please, share with me the numbers that do add up! I’m waiting.

{How does this compare with your company's numbers? If people aren't working then they have no money to go on vacations, if they can't afford food how are they going to have fun in this business? Ironically, you just made my point. We will continue to grow regardless of what's happenning in this country, because we'll deal with those around the world who have money.}

In the meantime, many of my Entrepreneurial Friends are going to continue…we will show and tell…we all have a deck of cards to play in life and sooner or later the Ace’s show up if you keep flipping your cards in your deck. Some people flip cards faster than others and some never flip any at all. It’s simply your choice and I like it that way. The only question I think you have to ask yourself…are you playing with a full deck? Or have you become mindless and expect a handout because you’re entitled?

{There's that leadership quality shining through again.}

John…or should I call you Dude,

{Again the maturity thing just shines}

the numbers for us do add up, it’s the best opportunity we can find currently for us, our family, and our friends whom we want to travel with, be successful with, and be happy with. John, if you or anyone would like to know more, I’d be happy to meet you to discuss your application. Some people would ask at this point, why bother with you? My answer is, unlike you John, I remain open minded. My first impression of you may not be your reality.

{Let me say this, don't bother with me. I wouldn't work under someone who is so emotionally unstable and immature.}

Besides, if you have a better plan, please don’t keep it a secret as there are many, many wonderful people, over worked and under paid in America right now, needing your help.

{First stop exporting manufacturing jobs, second raise the income and capital gains tax for the top 1%, eliminate outragous government pensions, bring all of our military home, stop giving tax dollars to foriegn nations, hire more teachers and less administrators, create a bonified health care plan for the american people, have government stop competing with the private sector for employees by providing stupid wages, term limits for legislators, hell Randy, I got a whole bunch a ways to help out the country, but none of them include recruiting people and taking their money knowing that 3 out four will fail.}

Oh, one final little story. Not all John’s think the same fortunately. Ironically, I met a different John over 2.5 years ago who invited me into the family of WorldVentures. He had just started his business and with all due respects, he was an average and ordinary man with maybe above average and ordinary dreams. Anyway, at the time I had other business interests and had my tunnel vision glasses on. The story ends with today, 2.5 years later, I came into the business under another family who happens to know the John who invited me long ago. What was interesting to me to find out is THAT JOHN invited the family who invited me… AGAIN! I only missed out on about 1500 people to override in commissions on that little decision not to join. That John earns today a little under $200, 000/yr. So, I decided I’m not missing out on the next 1500.

{The big deal here how much did your company take from johns people vs how much they paid out to them? Based upon the numbers 10 of 1500 people may have earned an average of 5K or more; in the mean time the company probably earned more than $1.2M in fees off his people. You asked earlier what makes a public company better than private, disclosure; private companies are not obligated by law to provide any more financial information than what is supplied to the IRS. Public companies must make available any document upon request, so anyone can see where every dime is coming and going, where and to whom.}

Is there a moral to my story? Well… never prostitute your business and go out there and do or say the wrong things.

{Use personal attacks to defend your business at any costs. Beware of the truth, it will cost you business.}

Instead, do the right things and live happy. If you do and become successful at it…it will probably be because you found the right JOHN!

{(a Honest and forthright individual, who won't prey upon your emotions just to make a buck in the name fun! )}

To Your Success!
Randy

{When I replied to Randy's letter, I inputed the following P.S. statement at the end:
Randy, I'm sure you're basically a decent guy, you can't be a total prick and raise two daughters in todays world. I figure it has to be the female influences around you to get you to respond in such a manner...like you said rubbing elbows. Probably why I spent the majority of day providing you answers to your questions and defending my positions and my honor; plus I needed a break from the real world. I believe that the powers that be should be made aware of your vehemence and to what extent you will go to promote it. Be sure that I'll do what I can to help spread the word.

God Bless You & family,
John Burchardt }

I forwarded this directly to WV and here was their response -

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This is some good stuff here, I give a little feedback throughout the letter. I'd be interested in his and yours and their reactions.

Now the final e-mail #4: Randy's reply to my responses -

Hi Mike,

Please ask John if he'd like to meet us and discuss this in a respectful manner. If he says no...it makes no difference to me. In my opinion he is just so wrong on so many things. I actually think it would be healthy for him and the 3 of us to exchange some opinions in person. I don't know what has happened in his past for him to have such a disdain for the industry. Yes, he is also welcome to attend any of our meetings, ask any questions he wants, and walk away with a polite "just not interested guys..." if that is how he feels.

Here is what we know. We are a full disclosure company and proud of what we do. Once again, my only real objection was the condescending way he responded to your invitation. So I dished out a little of my own and he obviously didn't like it much. Why John blames the company, or you, or me, or people in general like us for disclosed earnings he thinks are not enough in parity, is just a skewed mindset. But what he's refusing to acknowledge is WE are not satisfied either...AND NEITHER IS WV's Corporate! Again, the reality is... it's each individuals own effort and ability that dictates their success. The template is the same for everyone...period. Direct marketing is not for everyone and anything worth while is usually never easy. That is why the opportunity will take time and consistent effort. We have no way of knowing which ones, or how many people, who have invested more time and money than current earnings, will be incredibly blessed for their hard work in the future. But anyone could be and for the ones that are not, they may hit other goals just as rewarding to them. Who are we to judge what is termed "successful" anyway. Any business person should realize the challenges ahead and love the savings in our products to help offset their investment for a while if needed. Unfortunately, the income disclosure statement doesn't reflect this advantage. There are no contracts and anyone can quit at anytime. They don't have to be representatives! They can just belong to the DreamTrips Travel Club or just belong to the Leisure Travel Consultant part and own their own business to build a customer base. Please tell John "YES" customers can sign up "Preferred" for FREE on your site. There is so much John doesn't know about us but he'd rather slam from a distance on what he thinks he sees in "the numbers" then to hear our explanations of how and why it works for most people.

So why doesn't everyone quit if it's not worth it? Could it be because of our products and services? Our retention rate on customers of our products is nearly 90%. We recently got another pay raise as you know and its been since John slammed our business. Tell him thank you. How many people do you know got an additional $3000/year raise for doing exactly the same thing they've been doing? We are just in the right place at the right time. What we do is so achievable for everyone... its ridiculous. That's why I love our business...and it's just plain fun. To say that 3 out of 4 of our reps fail is dead wrong. In one of John's replies to my letter he mentioned Pre-Paid Legal again as being a company he'd been involved with previously. Too bad he doesn't realize you are about to bring in the pre-paid legal guy with 600 in his downline to your business. I know how you work Mike and John doesn't realize he'd override them all if he got a placement first in your business. But somehow he's got this mindset our successful WV company is bad. The numbers just don't work for him. Neither did Excel or Pre-Paid legal's standards, two other companies I guess he dabbled in...actually good companies that made a lot of money for a lot of good people. Then he claims to have quit because they didn't have product lines up to his standard. I'm sorry Mike but he just about has me convinced. I don't think this guy could make it in any Direct Marketing company. But you know me, I don't give up and will help anyone who wants it. I just regret he's preaching this crap to good people who might believe it. So just in case, this is why I took the time to spend an hour tonight (not a day as he took) to read his comments and let you know what I think. It's also why I wrote a response to his opinion in the first place. Something else I thought was hypocritical in John's comments is this. John said he use to sell cars...even tho he use to sell cars to people he knew couldn't afford them. I wonder how many cars he sold for $360. That's WV's huge risk and hardship buy in amount, right? Our investment never depreciates and no contract charges you interest and rapes you like a car salesman can do with hidden fees and charges. What they do in car sales sometimes should make most car salesmen run to confession probably. When someone signs up with WV, we can't charge anymore; if it was a car. everyone would pay the same. How about that idea for John? Did he sell everyone for the same money? He claims they at least drove a nice car...for a while. He also wants WV not to charge for their proprietary technology in software tools. He thinks everyone should design their own even tho he doesn't know the qualifying steps to get WV's free of charge is stupid easy. Did John sell his cars with the option of no engine? I think he should have let his customers build their own motor and install them! He was ripping them off and profiting from pre-installed engines. How low can you go. Oh, I almost forgot, John also suggested WV GIVE the service for say...6 months or so...free of charge just to try out. I'm sure no one would figure out an abuse to that idea...that's brilliant. Must have gotten that idea from Obama. Need more entitlements, right? I wonder if John let his car customers drive around in the cars he was selling free for 6 months before he sold one. I hope not...can you imagine the seats afterward? Come on...you have to admit...that's pretty funny. (lol :)

I could go on and on but sorry...just don't have the time. Here's a few final comments to some of what he said:

John wrote, "I'll teach children to look and evaluate numbers. I'll show them how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. I'll teach them how to take the information and make an intelligent decision. But most importantly, I'll teach them that it is inappropriate to attack another verbally just because you disagree with his/her conclusions."

Mike, I don't know what level of education or the ages of children he's referring. Evaluating numbers as they relate to each other in profit and loss can be important as can endless amounts of other ways numbers are used. I still remember my teachers, all of them that I had in school at every level. Some were very good and some were slobs...falling asleep at their desks. It's just all relative to the situation with not much of a standard guaranteed to really help the kids learn. I think that is a problem. John wants to teach them the rich are getting richer and poor are getting poorer. How depressing to be taught that. If that's all we teach the children, they are destined to not only believe it but in their life time the rich will get poorer and the most poor will simply die earlier or turn to no hope, more crime, etc. Where is the teaching of alternative positive change. PMA! What ever happen to positive principles like what you can conceive you can achieve. Success is never certain but failure is never final. I expect to do more than paid for early on so I'm paid more than I'm probably worth later. We need to be teaching kids to "Pay It Forward" just like the movie along with the reading, writing, and arithmetic if anyone cares and has hope anymore. As far as teaching them about verbal attacks. Please. Teach them the difference and proper balance in using that type of postured defense. Let passion be heard when you hear something wrong...it is OK to verbally attack when necessary, it may keep you alive. Most martial art instructors teach a verbal counter before a numchuck to the head. I can just see one of John's students going into the Marines and telling his drill Sargent, "Stop that, I have a right to my opinion, these push ups are too hard and you yell to much." I hope they do get taught to take information and make intelligent decisions...knowing what the future could be if everybody just pulled their weight and didn't expect free entitlements. They need to be taught to have freedom and happiness you must experience struggle and reward. Appreciate the people that come in life before you and love the ones that come in life because of you. Most of all, I wish they were taught a little prayer in school which wouldn't hurt either. But that's just my opinion.

All people have time lines that are different. Small investments of time and money sometimes can allow people to be in position for great monetary rewards and happiness. This is something many do not get in their regular jobs...especially teachers. Here is another example of stupid numbers. Do you know how many people pay an annual fee to belong to a major fitness facility and never go or rarely go to use it? You are going to find the number astonishing. My wife use to manage one. So, is the fitness place a scam? Should the fitness place give everyone back their money who doesn't go to use it? Is it the companies fault? Does the company have a right to make a reasonable return to stay in business even if less than 1/2 of 1% ever become Arnold? Is it the recruiter that got paid to sell the membership to blame? Come on...some people just don't get off their duff and do anything because it's not easy. These are just the sad facts. You should tell John we are going to do our part to improve the numbers if that's his only problem with WV. Too bad he won't take the time to learn all the positive fun things we are doing for people and all the schools we are building around the world in our "Make A Living...Giving" programs. As an educator I'd think it would attract a little of HIS vehemence. Time will tell.

Wow, once again this whole think has gotten heavy! So I have to leave you with a little humor. I hope you'll share it with John except he'll probably accuse me of trying to teach the teacher. But here goes:

Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel, "Pick up your shovel, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the Promised Land."
Nearly 75 years ago, Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a camel, this is the Promised Land."
Now Obama has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of camels and mortgaged the Promised Land!
I heard John was so depressed last night thinking about Health Care plans, the economy, the wars, lost jobs, savings, Social Security, retirement funds, and most of all, our WV numbers, etc...I wish he would have called us but instead he chose Lifeline. Unfortunately John got a call center in Pakistan. He told them he was suicidal.
They apparently got all excited and asked if he could drive a truck...

Moral to another story? Time spent on this email really blows...

Randy

If you've made it all the way to the end...God Bless you! Someone mentioned earlier in this forum that reps appear to mean if you question anything, you've just seen the exact exchange between us, so you be the judge. Granted a took a couple of adolescent shots, but nothing to the extent that he wrote.
I'm choosing not to respond again, but rather place this up here to help you make an informed decision. You can see for yourself and decide for yourself.
I never went to the "invite" nor do I intend too.
However, if you decide that WV is for you, at least help out my friend Mike. http://limoswithoutlimits.rovia.com
 7th of Sep, 2010 by   C. K. 1st -1 Votes
I think Randy was "Right On" Sounds like he loves people and wants them to live happy. He is right, its your choice.

Cheryl
 30th of Sep, 2010 by   Steve from Ohio +1 Votes
I thought that everybody wants to be rich and successful. I thought everyone would want to go on vacation. I thought that if I got a whole bunch of people to follow me I would not have to work ever again. I thought I could retire and be happy the rest of my life. I thought I could do this easily because I thought I could. I thought I would never have to work a JOB--just over broke--ever again.

I thought it would be easy to get people to sign up. I thought it would be nice to travel the world. I thought it would be great to have a sports car and a big house. I thought that everyone would jump at the chance to have the same. I thought that all my friends and family would like to join. I thought that everything I was told by the person who signed me up was true. I thought that family and friends would not mind me trying to sell them whenever we met.

I thought I would be rich by now. I thought I would never be desperate. I thought my house and car would never be taken from me by the bank. I thought my MLM friends would call.

I thought I was going to die when my house was taken. I thought I wanted to die when my car was taken. I thought I was a failure because I could not find anyone who wanted to get involved with my now defunct business. I thought my friends and family would never talk to me ever again after I pestered them all the time to join my business. I thought constantly about all the money and time I lost.

I guess I just never thought it out.

A reformed MLM'er.

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